If you think that the political fallout from Hot Coffee is fading, think again.
The GTA San Andreas scandal not only continues to be a public relations thorn in the side of the video game industry - it's also an inviting target for politicians.
Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI) is no stranger to the Hot Coffee affair. In July, 2005, just as the publicity over the incident was peaking, Upton proposed a resolution in Congress ordering the Federal Trade Commission to look into Hot Coffee. The motion passed 355-21, leading to the FTC's June, 2006 report on the scandal.
Upton, however, was not pleased with the FTC's findings, saying:
"I guess I thought the FTC would have had some more teeth than they apparently have... I'm not at all happy... In essence there are no consequences. None... I would like to have thought that (Take-Two and Rockstar) would have been able to be fined for millions of dollars for the trash they put out across this country."
Upon finding out that the FTC has no such authority, Upton declared:
"I am going to be looking to write legislation giving the FTC the authority to impose civil penalties. I didn't know that they didn't have the authority."
Now, Upton has kept his promise, submitting H.R.6120, the Video Game Decency Act of 2006. The bill would make it illegal for a game company to fail to disclose content with the intent of gaining a less-restrictive ESRB rating.
Violations would be treated as "unfair or deceptive practices" under the rules that govern the FTC.
Fourteen colleagues have signed on as co-sponsors, including Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI), Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) and Joe Pitts (R-PA)
Comments
Not the first time that an attempt at making videogames a scapegoat has been held back by a lack of research, and probably not the last.
Forgive me for arguing semantics here, but making something illegal based on intent? I don't think Rockstar failed to disclose Hot Coffee because they wanted a lower rating - that implies that the minigame was supposed to be part of the final retail copy of San Andreas, but Rockstar didn't mention it in the hopes they'd get away with it.
As I understand it, the reason they didn't disclose Hot Coffee was because it wasn't part of the game that a player was supposed to be able to see. Yes, it was a little sloppy of them to leave the code there, but you can hardly argue that they left it there knowing that somebody would be able to unlock it, in order to bypass the ESRB.
Besides, it's going to be next to impossible to prove intent in court.
It was unused code that, by design, was supposed to be not part of the game.
Access to the code was NOT made by official patches or upgrades by the company.
Access to the code was NOT made by official unlockable codes provided within the official software.
Access was provided by non publisher, non developer, non official means.
Access was provided by non company personnel and therefore was a modification of said product that was NOT official intended.
I can think of a number of products whose use could be modified or interpreted to allow the product to be used in a manner that the creating company did not intend for the product.
If said products can be modified or interpreted to be used by some individuals in a manner which -I- feel is "indecent", can I then demand the company who created the product be fined, at the least, because it's product COULD be used by other individuals for purposes other than what the company claims the product was intended?
If someone can come up with a way to use a product in a way that was not intended to be used by the maker of the product, can we really hold the maker responsible for how the product is used?
nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Regardless, this is an AUTO fail.
1. Fcc only has authroity through public means of communication, of which, games are not, they are sold on the market, not broadcast through the air waves.
2. 1st amendment. You'd fiqure they'd get this one by now.
3. 14th amendment, once again, singling out games.
End game MR. upton, your not smart enough to use a toaster, let alone be an authority on games.
OT, I got Julie Benay (Vermont Asst. Principal) pretty riled at me when I punked her idea to tax M and AO rated games. If anyone wants to see the exchange, let me know and I'll forward it to you. It's kind of long and I don't want to post it here.
Take-Two and Rockstar lost millions in the fallout of the scandal, isn't that enough? How much punishment do they want the company to suffer? Do this guy really think Hot Coffee was some apocolyptic event that nearly destroyed the purity of America's youth? It was just clothed dry humping, for goodness sake!
Email is Mattsworkname@aol.com.
Gotta see this.
abbreviationdc [at] gmail.com
Sadly, far too many product liability cases are about misuse of products.
There's a difference though - they want T2 to be fined, not take a loss. It's not about penalizing T2's profits, it's about T2 having to pay for what they did wrong.
TheFricke44@wi.rr.com
silver.derstin(at)gmail.com
This has the looks of a personal vendetta, not of an actual serious inquiry into Take-Two's actions.
blitz6799@yaho.com
@Phrawzty:
Their real goal is to confuse us by creating this sort of legal action one week, and then the next week to have headlines on how they're trying to make their state more attractive to the industry. However, I would say that we seem to benefit by giving you guys the industry,because as far as I know, you guys haven't tried breaking anything like we have.
@article:
This situation with Upton actually proves a point I tried making earlier this week where a politician was backing CAMRA and other studies and was quoted as saying something to the effect of "If the study says things are fine, I'll be fine with it too". My point at the time was that he already made a decision about where he stands with the issue, and that if the study goes his way he will be proud and make some claims, whereas this story itself shows what happens when the study goes the other way.
I'm willing to bet that if we travelled back in time and asked Upton what would he do if the FTC said there was no problem that Upton would say "Then that's what they found, I'll live with it"; or something to that effect.
Now onto the story at hand. Can we please stop with the "OMG! R*and T2 are evil smut peddlers! Think of the children!" This guy is just sore because he has been revealed as the big idiot he is. No matter what you guys try to pass you always jump over the 1st amendment, if you guys would sit down and talk with the video game industry instead of trying to silence it with half assed laws that never pass and the constant attempt at fear mongering to get another soccer mom vote maybe, just maybe you would realize that the video game industry is not a evil monster out to devour the souls of small children.
If it didn't go through, let me know and I'll resend it.
Oh, it went through all right (at least for me). ANd I must say, you cooked her goose good, buddy.
Logic check!: Why would the gaming industry go through the effort to create the ESRB *just* so that can try to subvert it? That makes no sence, none!
Now, I admit leaving that data on disc was a mistake. But honestly, it only because accessable because some third party which R* has NO CONTROL over, went poking around where he didn't belong, found the data, then got a crazy idea to put it to use for the hot coffee mod. It just as likely that data could of sat there unused for all eternity for what it's worth.
Face it, there's no corruption conspiracy going on here, this is just the resulto f bad luck and curious mod makers.
Thanks.
@ sleepchamber: I hope not, actually. Even if it was stupid and juvenile, so was much of the other stuff in San Andreas. I mean we had a blind chinese triad running face first into walls, a complete stoner pothead, and an abundance of other immaturity in the game. It was just another piece of the puzzle which got axed for whatever reason, though I'm willing to bet it had more to do with the fact that the minigame just wasn't all that fun and Rockstar decided that it would probably result in an AO rating (which is something NO game developer wants, not even Rockstar). The way it was disabled could have been more complete, but it wasn't actually part of the game at the time of shipping.
The only silly thing, is that that the FTC already has a mechanism to handle this. It's called the false advertising regulations.
The problem was that the FTC couldn't prove that R* & Take Two did it intentionally.
Same with Upton's proposed law:
The bill would make it illegal for a game company to fail to disclose content with the intent of gaining a less-restrictive ESRB rating.
If they can't prove intent, they can't fine. Congrats Upton, you made a do-nothing law that accomplishes the same thing as already existing laws...
Thanks, it was fun. I do want to give credit where it's due, though; Dennis and the rest of you were also in those e-mails. I drew a lot of my points from you guys.
Oh look, it's back
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/28/dissecting-rockstars-formula-joystiq-p...
Comments 22 and 23.
Pathetic.
nightwng2000
NW2K Software
And seriously, when are American politicians going to realize that they can't wipe their asses with the constitution and make laws like this? They're 0-for-8 now at least.
And another thing, when are American politicians going to realize that children are WAY smarter than they give them credit for? Any kid with a decent rearing and a straight head on his shoulders is going to know that what you do in the games, you shouldn't do in reality.
At least I always did, anyway.
As a game programmer for cell phones, I can tell you removal of assets is not always an easy task, it often involves hundreds of very small changes that can easily set back even small cellphone games back weeks, multiply that by several hundred times and you get some idea of why things that are unused get left in games. It saves a significant ammount of time and money to just hack a little patch that prevents the game from being accessable. Is it the best solution from a coding standpoint, no, but chances are you don't want to see a game delayed for 3-6 months (and possibly cancelled) just because they had to re-write significant ammounts of code.
Sorry, can't help you there. My workplace filters don't like a web page address that ends in ".com" (unless it's the server name), so it denies me access to GP's wiki entry. :(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15060698/
nightwng2000
NW2K Software
So we get more family-value grandstanding from people like Brownback to gain moral ground among the bloc.
"I stand against video games harming our children - vote for me, while my party and I mindlessly promote the continuing endangering of America by making more and more Muslims hate us instead of eliminating the small sectarian factions that actually matter. But at least your kids will be safe from Grand Theft Auto."
Oh, and Hayabusa, can I get a copy of that, too?
rurouni_kenouki[at]hotmail.com
I just e-mailed you back, but wow, thanks for letting me read that... The more and more I see from these ignoramouses the more I wish we could give our government a much needed enema.
egreif [at] gmail [dot] com
My guess is it was a copycat incident. Some yahoo with a grudge (considering he was apparently a former student), wanting to go out in a blaze of glory. I mean, school shootings & plots have been all over the news three times now in less than a month. (Montreal, that hostage taking, and the Colubine-type plotters that were arrested).
What sickens me is that his picture will be all over the news, they'll report on every detail of his life. And while most perps of this type don't really care about fame, it shows other suicidal loners that if you're going to go, you might as well take the people you hate with you, because dying alone makes you a loser.
It's the new suicide by cop. Suicide by school shootout.
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/08/30/school.shooting/
nightwng2000
NW2K Software
I wholeheartedly agree about the kids comments. I don't know if it's only this nation or not, but it seems as if we age and become "kids say the darndest things" kind of people rather than noticing that when they say or ask things that at first seem simple, tend to actually point out larger issues.
Wonderful job on handing her ass to her. She is just another one of those idiotic bandwaggon riders who do things like this to make it look like she gives a shit. I loved how she accused you of working for the industry because you challenged her idea. Ten to One none of those kids are working with local politicians under their own accord. They are probably all in some sort of AP government class and this is a required assignment they have to do. Though I must laugh because soon her plan like all the other tax payer money wasters will go down in flames. You can't tax video games because little timmy might play GTA and kill hookers. Mom and Dad need to get a little strict on what he plays. And there will not be a surgeon generals warning on games about violence because it has to be proven wihout a shadown of a doubt that playing the game is harmful to their lives or development.
No, most school shootings don't seem to be linked to anything in particular. Some are from abusing or broken households, some are heavily doped up on prescription drugs for depression or hyperactivity, some are loners, some are glory hounds, some are bitter at the school, some at the staff, or specific "cliques". Some just at the world in general.
That's why the Secret Service came to the conclusion that there were no common factors. They were trying to create a "school shooter profile" so they could identify possible incidents before they happened. But they found that there were no common factors.