Glad Brad got the news to you early. I'm transcribing what happened right now, will have my notes from the trial up in a little bit.

Is anyone else getting a bad feeling about this? With the statements reported earlier, and only seeing the game for four hours, it could be a rush to judgement. Did the rest of Jack's e-mail seem like gloating? I hope I'm wrong about this.

Now that Thompson's actually seen the game, I'm wondering what his thoughts on it are.


Andrew Eisen

Even if the judge rules in Jack's favor, there is no way this will survive appeal. However, it will mean the game is off the shelves in Florida for some weeks.

It's a worry that Jack is the one who asked for the case to reconvene tomorrow, either he is going to drop it or he thinks the judge has seen something which will help him otherwise I think he would of wanted the judge to see more of the potentially harmful game.

The momment of truth is soon. Will the Judge order this game banned? Or will he tick off Jack Thompson.

Of course, we'll really know for sure if this game was worth arguing over next week when the reviews come out.

i think the worst part of this going in jacks favor would be the fact that he would absolutley never shut up about it. He still touts his 60 minutes appearance....this might actually be on his epitaph.

I think i might want him to lose just as much for that.

I wonder if Jack was peering over the judge's shoulder... "Look! I think I can almost see a nipple! Ban it! ... They might be able to slam someones head in the locker! Ban it!... I bet there's a mod in here! Hot Tea! Yeah!"

... If nothing else, it would've been interesting to have been there.

I think all who where present had to sign a NDA before the viewing was done. And thus is why JBT did not really mention anythin specific on bully.

He watched the game being played with Thompson present?! Well, that will certain ensure impartiality...unbelieveable. I really hope that when Take-Two is victorious in this, that they finally slap harassment and nuisance suit charges against JT.

I thought the judge or Thompson said they wanted to spend a thousand hours on this game. They must watch 60 mnutes in .4 seconds.

Out of curiosity, either way that this could go, wouldn't this be something appealed by either side?

Personally, I think theres to little to go on right now. At best, we can assume that the game was nothing like jack described, and nothing like it's critics thought, as that would be in line with TT's seeming plan.

Otherwise, I have to wonder if jack will keep his word and vouch for the game as he said he would.

After all, if you only watched a move for 15 minutes, could you judge the movie overall? by the same token, for a 100 plus hour game, 4 hours is a fraction of the games overall content.

Ergo, it implies that the game was either nothing like jack claimed, or was so shocking the judge was offended by it, something I find hard to imagine given what appears to be a consious effort by TT to undermine jack and end his crusade.

We shall see.

Yeah, both sides were allowed to sit in and not speak. I wonder if that's even possible for Jack. I'm willing to bet that at some point he jumped up screaming "Violent connotations! That poor kid got hit with a board duster! Ban it! BAN IT!"

Unfortunately, we could speculate that Jack broke the silence and the judge is throwing him out in contempt, or that the Judge saw the game for it's satirical truth, or was shocked and didn't want to see more or about a hundred other different resolutions. All I know is, the suspense is palpable. Can't wait to hear the decision, win or lose.

This case delivers.

Jack Thompson had to be present. Take Two was supplying the game and the player. It would be a much greater show of bias to close the door on Thompson. After all, he can't very well do his job without access to the evidence...

Am I scared? No.
I'm suspicious even more now.

The order was supposedly 100 hours. At most, 4 hours were involved, unless it began before 3pm. Even so, less than 10 hours were involved.
Either the game is completely playable in less than 10 hours, or there is hypocrisy at play, once again.

After all, some of the major complaints against the ESRB is that games are not played COMPLETELY through to determine a rating. Even John Bruce has used such an argument against the ESRB.

Yet here, a game is being judged based on a fraction of the game (most likely). And John Bruce is ok with this, why? Because he believes the judgment is in HIS favor. It's ok if HE or someone who may be biased in HIS favor judges a product based on a fraction of the material. Just as long as it's HIS way of judging, it doesn't have to be complete. If they don't judge in HIS favor, then they are doing it wrong.

Once again, warning lights are flashing. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the judge saw the part where the headmaster called the abuse against some students as being "school spirit" and thought "oh heck yeah, I'd do some damage too" and made his decision right then and there. But based on prior acts and attitudes, I seriously doubt it.

So I remain suspicious of this judge's honor and ethics. If I'm wrong, fine and dandy. But I doubt it.

nightwng2000
NW2K Software

Heart: *Thump* *Thump* *Thump* *Thump*

I know how you feel... but if push comes to shove I have a subscription to Gamefly that will come in handy or I could go to blockbuster.

Four hours seems about right to get a handle on game ... especially if you have someone who knows the product and can "drive" you where you need to go to see important parts of play.

Would have been nice to be a fly on the wall in that play test chamber ... to see and hear comments ... or the lack of them.

One of the more interesting outcomes would be to see the plaintiff withdraw his own case for lack of merit.

"Heads down again ... that pig is making a second pass!!"

Does anyone know if this judge has ever seen another video game for comparison...
Seems a bit unfair to claim public nusiance due to its theme/violence unless representative games, that are not in question, have been viewed also

This case is way more suspenceful then any Battle between Pixelantes and Censorcrats we've seen thus far.

WHAT will his verdict be? Don don don!

Four hours standard playing wouldn't be enough, but if R* supplied the game and player, they might well be playing a debug mode or the player knows all the level cheats?

"After all, he can’t very well do his job without access to the evidence…"

Since when? :P I mean hasn't he called out Bully before there was even any real in-game footage and it was all just short trailers?

You too aniki21?

This a big day for video games in the Us, and yet most people wouldnt know it.

You beat me to it Fedule, was just about to post the same link.

Yes, its reassuring to see some media quarters reporting an unbiased and factual account of the game and the court case. "bully 'targetted' in the US" also highlights the fact that it has been singled out by Thompson rather than it standing out as a particularly bad apple.

Of course knowing Jack's record on bitching at Dennis in the past, he will probably claim that the BBC don't have any journalistic credibility for not contacting him for a direct quote on the matter ;)

4 hours is plenty of time.

How many games are there where you can't work out the general nature and violence of the game in an hour of play?

squigs Says:
October 13th, 2006 at 8:42 am
How many games are there where you can’t work out the general nature and violence of the game in an hour of play?

The difference with a "sandbox" game like Bully is, the game's central plot might not contain any of the really objectionable stuff. Let's face it, it's not Bully's violence that's the real issue here; it's the moral presentation of that violence.

In Grand Theft Auto, you can complete the game without picking up a hooker, having sex with her and then killing her to get your money back. It's rare that you have no choice but to shoot cops in the main missions either - . They're not central to the plot, but it is possible to do it - and it's those "immoral" player choices that cause the most consternation among legislators.

You rarely hear anyone complain about World War II games in which you run around killing every German you see; that's because in the context of history, that's the "right" thing to do.

The context and presentation of violent behaviour is much more important than it's level.

Should the judge rule against Bully, honestly it's hard to tell which this is going to go right now but I remain confident, I will be more than happy to take my Chevelle out of storage and become a "Bully-runner" across state lines for people.

Sure you could use the internet, but then where's the fun in that? ;)

I have this weird feeling that the only reason they spent 4 hours playing was because the copy they received was a rushed print, and didn't have the proper activator to go past an event 4 hours into the game.

@MaskedPixelante: Could be, but given the circumstances I'm also willing to believe that they just didn't have more that four hours to commit to the game.

If the judgment is in favor of TT, this might also go a long way towards justifying the current rating system. What with all the talk of having to play through the game in its entirety, we'd have a judge on record saying that the ESRB was handed a highly controversial game and using their own methods came to a 'correct' rating. That's quite likely hoping for too much, though, since the judge isn't required to weigh in on whether he thinks the rating's fair - he doesn't have the power to command a ratings change. So he could call the game nonviolent and the rating reasonable; or, he might be silent on the whole matter; or he could find in TT's favor but still find the game reprehensible. That'd be something, no? A judge saying, "This is absolute filth that I wouldn't allow in my house and I'm appalled that it exists... but, the law says you're allowed to peddle it nonetheless."

[...] What do you think is going to happen today in court? Please your comments below. More information can also be found on GamePolitics.com        [...]

http://www.destructoid.com/jack-thompson-ruling

Jack Thompson loses!

As promised, I am now laughing my fricking head off. :D

Can't wait to hear the full story!

If this is not falsified information...(i doubt it is) then JT has been Pwned..

Another win for gamers, another defeat for Jacko

Reading Chuma's first comment gave me an interesting thought on how benign this game might actually come across. They mentioned that they hope the judge isn't so out of touch with today's culture, but I don't think that's even relevant.

I think this is a game that could actually play well with an older audience. I mean, the game apparently features Indian burns and slingshots and wedgies and jocks and greasers and nerds. It sounds a lot more like a stereotypical depiction of a 50s era school than a modern (public) school - in other words, something a judge is more likely to relate to than a "Columbine simulator". Where are the guns and Crips and goths and stabbings?

It wouldn't surprise me if the judge looked at it and said, "This is a like a colour episode of 'Leave It To Beaver.'"

Also, if Rockstar are really on the ball, they'd start by playing through the first mission both ways. That is, as I recall reading, the first mission involves you going to try to save a nerd from some greasers - by either talking your way out of it, or fighting your way out. Hopefully the Rockstar demo player shows the judge both options so that the judge can see that while there can be violence in the game, there doesn't have to be.

With options like that, I'd be really upset if the game gets banned. It honestly sounds like a conceptually brilliant game, regardless of what the final product is like.

Oh, and thanks Erik! :D

Another one bite the dust!

Scoops said:

"Where are the guns and Crips and ***goths*** and stabbings?"


Assumptions and politically and media hyped stereotypes are not just limited to computer gamers. As a goth myself who holds down a job writing software for a living (in the veterinary industry no less - hardly the stuff of evil), pay taxes, never even had a speeding ticket much less a criminal record, I object to the thoughts that everyone who makes a choice to wear black clothing or listen to music that isn't churned out from a lifeless pop industry is a drop out from society.

I know you probably didn't mean this, and it was probably a throwaway comment on the back of a recent school shooting, but don't forget that the same crap you as a gamer feel strongly against is banded about other cultures and subsets too.

@chuma-i agree. i suggested after the montreal shooting that gamepolitics and vampirefreaks team up and form an activism alliance of sorts,because i knew that we were going to get the same kind of blame. of course,it was never followed through with.

I'm sure (b) will happen, Jabrwock. ETA 2 minutes. :P

As to (a), he might claim it, but considering the judge apparently said he wouldn't want his kids playing it (anyone know about this judge and how old his kids likely are?), I'd say that would be an uphill battle.

Like I mentioned in the Destructoid comments, I almost wish Jack had played it. If only to see him pitch a fit when he wasn't able to play it properly and/or find all teh vile content that isn't actually there.

Oh please God don't talk about joining gamepolitics with some fruity vampire club. They'd never go together. Gamepolitics.com is all about proving the value of games as an art form and a valuable part of people lives. It's the total opposite of vampirekids.com. Let's stick to the fact that Jackie boy got it handed to him and then you guys can all watch The Crow.

Erik got what I was going for, Chuma. No disrespect intended. I was basically pointing out that many of the things stereotypical of a modern high-school experience are completely not present in a game that Jack claims could be a training ground for the next Columbine.

Seriously, I don't know about you guys, but I never used the term "greaser" in my entire high school career. Nor did I ever carry a slingshot with me.

I think it's a forgone conclusion that JT is gonna whine like a 5 year old when Spongebob ends. I hope the Judge actually yells at hime for wasting time.

Hmm, now we wait on the Take-Two, Wal-mart response to Thompson.

It'll either be
a) A Lawsuit asking to refund legal fees acquired to defend against a frivolous suit
b) Another Florida Bar complaint for attempting to force Prior Restraint
c) A a harassment/liebel suit filed by TT
d) all of the above

So when is Jack making his next $10,000 offer to someone to make a video game based on what he thinks Bully is like.

be nice if they could of taped the proceedings and then put it on youtube, so we could see Jack make even more of an ass of himself then we normally see.

I am!

Wait... no.

I mean the opposite.. yeah. Totally not surprised.

We are the champions
We are the champions
No time for Thompson
Cause we are the champions.

That song is going to be stuck in my head all day.

You are god among men! Make sure to add all the crying Thompson did :D

I am glad this has happened. Too many times have music, tv, games, etc been banned for its content. These outlets must be sold to the appropriate age group and the parents need to quit letting the tv or game console babysit the kids for 10 hours a day. Get involved with your kids or spare us all with birth control.