In Wake of Rampage, German Minister Wants Jail Time for Violent Game Creators, Distributors ...and Players

Before living in Europe (Germany, France, Austria and Norway), I thought it would be neat to marry a local girl, like my uncles had done, and live there as an American ExPat. Living there for awhile opened my eyes. Europe is no longer free in the American sense. They just never have gotten the idea of freedom at all. I realized that we have a lot more of the cowboy and frontiersman in us than we give credit for. Americans basically feel that we are free and that when laws are passed, we give up a little more freedom for security, good of the whole, environment, or whatnot.

Not the Europeans. They never did have a free frontier. They lived under kings and dictators until the US came and gave them what little freedom they have now. They don't have that innate sense of entitlement to freedom. Thus, whenever their new kings and dictators shave off yet another slice of that American-given freedom, they shrug and wonder if, in return, they get government benefits at least.

Europe is not free. I don't think they understand the concept.

I think that people all over the world can learn from this. Right now it's all over the press: "killer games" instead of FPS and bloody pictures - who are taken from MODs or english, but not the german versions which are already modified to be less violent. It's opinion making at it's best. But we as gamers do very well know what's fake and what cheap tricks are used. The point is that such opinion making and cheap tricks are nowadays commonly used all over the world - so people really need to be watchful and use common sense whenever politicians open their mouths - and not only in Germany but also in the US and the rest of the world.

Simplified you are only allowed to have firearms at home if you re huntsman or are in a gun club. Usually that's also where most of the homicidal maniacs over here get their guns from and their skill in using them - not from playing CS but by stealing the guns from their father or even being in a gun club themselves.

You would expect that someone calling out loud that he wants to prevent such things from happening would take an objective look at the reasons and if he wants to forbid games he would also forbid gunclubs and do something against the social problems/school situation leading to such crimes. But I am sure he has quite some friends who are huntsman and that social stuff is expensive - so let's just take the cheap and easy solution.

And finally I see many people post there like "haha politicians are stupid". As you can hopefully see they are not at all. The tactics of opinion making works very well - because a lot of people sit all day long in front of their TV and are not interested in politics at all. Still they are voters, you just have to feed them enough silly stuff, frighten them, whatever - so they will go and vote for you.

In the end it's the politicians smiling about us being stupid while they fill their wallets...

Total bullshit Civil war very violent but there were no video games back then WW1 and WW2 also very violent but no video games back then. And also the Crusades if that was not violent i don't know what is and oh guess what no video games back then. This is all total bullshit just trying to ban games for no reason at all.

Attention all anti-german posters.

You fail at life.

If you going to say crap about germans, feel free to send all your racist messages to me via Private Messaging on the Forums here. I am a german, so if you wont say these things in front of one, then shut the &%#@ up you cowards.

The funny part is that normal TV is much more violent then most games.
Obviously politicians never watch TV, otherwise they would know that...

So, if violent videogames are to be prohibited then logically we would also have to:

JAIL ALL WATCHERS OF VIOLENT TV & MOVIES!

JAIL ALL PRODUCERS OF VIOLENT TV & MOVIES!

This article is unfortunate proof of the mindnumbing stupidity of some politicians. I think they should make an IQ test mandatory for politicians, then we might not see such brainless proposels as the one the german minister did.

I apologise, I didn't read all the comments.

I myself think this is a shocking proposal, but the way I look at it it is just a proposal.

I am German, but haven't lived there in 3 years. The country isn't very liberal and has a very strong traditional sense. And with all the media and 'mum's groups' constantly giving games a bad light, well are you surprised?

{}As far as the person who suggesting putting the gun-makers in jail instead of the game makers… I’d point out that a gun is simply a tool, and one can easily kill people with any tool, such as butcher knives and claw-hammers{}
severe difference- guns can ***only*** be used to kill, if your accurate maybe to dissable someone with another gun, but not at all likely.
{}Excessive censorship alone (which this is) is not the defining characteristic of Nazism{}
I dont see the point in not mentioning Nazism, as long as we aren't hypocritical morons who think that this is more than a small majority. I see that this happens everywhere, and in all countries. But still, Germany ignored its history once before, and now we have reason to believe that given a few decades it will do so again.
hope you motherland-hugging nationalists at least look the direction of your own country with a severly critical eye once and a while. I do my best to play that role here in the USA.
{}That’s like the people that hate America because our asshole Representatives{}
I dont know that much about Germany, but we hate our representatives here in the US (for the most part). everyone here is either an elitist capitalist asshole (like me) or a thieving, bumm-hugging tree growing loon. (like my town)
this is largely why your getting this huge rant, because we KNOW that yelling out loud is the only way to keep yourself from being shut up by your government, a hint: America has survived, is most powerful and THE ideal of freedom for a reason.

(for those of you left behind in my little rant, I think both the nazi-screaming morons and the germany-cuddled nationals should both take a bit more of a wholistic perspective, I think that neither side is completely wrong here)

[...] More wacky news from Germany over their anti-gaming bills. Any violent game that features “cruel or otherwise inhumane acts of violence against humans or humanlike creatures” is to be banned, and anyone retailing it available (say from France or Poland) or creating such game matter is to be fined or jailed. Also!! Playing such games in Germany would also be a no-no. Something to keep in mind before stuffing Serious Sam 2 in your GBA carrying case, huh? [...]

Before you start bringing up fascism you need to consider the fact that at least on of the reasons for the very restrictive german laws considering violent media content has it roots in the fear of fascism. The glorification of fight, war and violence was a very important point of the nazi-ideology and german public and policy (strengthened in the beginning by the Allies) was to counter that roots, early censorship laws in the 70ies were originally made for the banning of neo-nazi-literature and later expanded.

This is especially the position of the left political spectrum and the right is usually always ready to agree here for the same and some other reasons based on religious thinking and fear of change, new developments et. cet. Thats why those censorship laws found and find supporters from everywhere. It´s not simply a special german fascism-gene, there are different reasons. You can compare it to the more restictive laws considering denying the holocaust which are also pretty unique compared to the US for instance. You dont have to agree with it but its just stupid to just call it a new version of fascism. Just look at the very unique approach to Pornography or just naked nipples in the US.

I dont agree to the Beckstein-position at all, its incredible and sad how many stupid things those people say who dont have the slightest knowledge about the subject, present bad research as "proof" and try to get some voters on their side who dont have any idea about games too. Theres a good chance that the whole thing will backfire in case he will really succeed (keep in mind that were only talking about a paper with some suggestions that should start a discussion so far), because the EU will have a say in it in the end and its unlikely that other countries will totally agree. I dont really think that there will be a change in german law anyways even though the whole thing is definitely BS.

{}People here are doing a great job of confirming the stereotype of the ignorant and dumb American :p{}
I didnt say you were one, but you cant deny there are some here

pls tell me you dont actually believe Germany doesnt have its share of egoinflated assholes, just about every country has them. and saying that at least some of these people arent is utterly blind BS

let me make a clarification on my post 2 above this one: I didnt mean to compare the intensity of the events, but rather their focus. I know killing millions of people is in no way in comparable magnitude to jailing with extreme prejudice. but their direction is the same

and yes, I'm sorry for the multiposts, my thoughts usually come in waves

Let me submit this last thing to you:
Germany, in all its efforts to erase its Facist past, is using Pseudo-facism. Facism is the concept of the benevolent leader, doing and censoring what he believes is right for the people. IF YOU PLACE CENSORS OUT TO BLOCK THE CONCEPT OF FACISM, YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN THE FUNDAMENTAL FACIST CONCEPT. this is something the Forefathers of the Constitution understood with amazing clarity, in order to avoid being a facist government, you have to let the facists talk, you may hate their guts, you may think they belong in loon halls, you may think that they couldnt be more stupid than the level they have already reached. BUT IF YOU CENSOR THEM, YOU HAVE BECOME FACIST YOURSELF

thats why a few more European countries should study the Constitution. its a concept that is mimiced by numerous countries, but few are more than just poor facades of true democracy. I'm not saying the US is perfect, but it has a fundamental concept of rights bred into it that doesnt exist in the EU. perhaps why the spread of the "american idiot" image is so common in europe. its a sense of rights you guys haven't grown up with.

You obviously fail to understand that Germany is in a special position considering neo-nazi-activities. I actually agree with you, censorship is probably the wrong way here but try to imagine that its a bit harder standing up for the rights of neo-nazis here than in the US considering the past and the fact that the pre-1933 political system granted them those rights with the effect that they took power. They way you argue every censorship is fascism and you totally ignore that there are alot of areas where european laws are less restrictive than the ones in the US (gay rights, Pornography). I already mentioned "nipplegate", creating a censorship of live-tv-shows. Reading your comments it seems as if there were no censorship and restrictions since the constitution in the US which is so ridiculous I wont even start to mention examples.

Do you really think that there arent alot of people in the US who would like those games to be banned too? The fact is, that about 90% of the "studies" and research that "proves" how dangerous those games are comes from the US (Huesmann, Anderson, Dill, Bushman, Grossman et. al.). Turning this issue in a comparison of political systems or bringing up nazis isnt going to help or convince anyone. Simplifying complex issues is exactly what those politicians do.

"I understand that there are censors in the US, but at best they are meant to keep abusive language from the public airways, or ban the admitance of child pornography."

Thats simply not true and I gave you several names of people who are argueing and fighting for censorship of games and violent media-content. You just ignored the facts I pointed out about the research and I could give you much more.

"the ones that don’t make sense (like not being allowed to walk backwards after sunset within city limits) are generally not followed up on."

So if someone in the US wants censorship its ok because nobody follows him, when a German demands something similar, like Beckstein, its a sign of fascism? So far, were only talking about some proposals that will most likely be turned down (just as you describe it for the US).


" so its difficult, suck it up"

The difficulty is the fact that the first people you have to face the are the ones who survived the atrocities and the holocaust. Your comparison of the holocaust and that desired law against (!) violence is pretty much nonsense by the way, even after your clarification.

"it can be done, and this is something that Germany is going to have to face up to at some point, otherwise the country WILL spiral downwards again."

As I already wrote, granting the freedom of speech in the Weimar Republic to the nazis didnt really help keeping them away from power. The "spiral downwards" didnt start with denying them that freedom. You lack that historical experiences as several others (good for you).

{}Thats simply not true and I gave you several names of people who are argueing and fighting for censorship of games and violent media-content{}
true enough, but 1 ) they dont have a laughing chance and 2 ) we dont ALREADY have censors on said media.
{}The difficulty is the fact that the first people you have to face the are the ones who survived the atrocities and the holocaust. Your comparison of the holocaust and that desired law against (!) violence is pretty much nonsense by the way, even after your clarification.{} How so? I think there are plenty of people who would agree that jailing people because of what they think about is in the same direction (but not the same magnitude) as killing them. Frankly I dont see the huge difference b/w religion and video games, your going to have to clarify what you dont understand for me.
{}The “spiral downwards” didnt start with denying them that freedom{} well you know what? if the majority want a facist regime than thats what your going to get in a Democracy. you CANNOT create a true Democratic government that oppresses its constituents. and you know what? THATS WHAT THIS IS. there is no way around it. you cannot say that the facists would take over if_______ so we have to oppress them. the truth is that if you dont let them speak, they have already taken control.

{}You lack that historical experiences as several others {}
and I'm sure your God's best gift to History since sliced bread.

"1 ) they dont have a laughing chance"

Do you call them Fascists too?

"we dont ALREADY have censors on said media."

You may have a less restrictive censorship on violence but there are other areas like pornography where its pretty much the other way round. And you have age restrictions on movies and games just like we do which are probably fascism as well. Besides, what about censorship in media or much more increased rights for law enforcements after 9/11?

"Frankly I dont see the huge difference b/w religion and video games, your going to have to clarify what you dont understand for me."

One major point should be obvious: you DECIDE if you want to play a video game or not.

"and I’m sure your God’s best gift to History since sliced bread."

I wasnt refering to you personally but the US-history.

Let me get this straight once again: Im not defending this stupid idiot and his weird and dangerous ideas (the minister of justice already dismissed this btw and I hope she prevails) and I basically see and share your view about censorship even concerning nazi-literature. I just fail to see why there always has to be a fascism-connection whenever a German is just plain stupid.

[...] GamePolitics a dat publicitatii stirea incredibila ca Ministrul german de Interne, Gunther Beckstein vrea sa incarcereze persoanele ce produc, distribuie si joaca jocuri video violente. Jucatorii sunt destul de speriati de o punere in practica a unui asemenea proiect. Totusi cea mai incredibila informatie este ca jucatorii ar putea face cunostinta cu inchisorile, sentintele ajungand pana la aproape 1 an. Totul a fost starnit de atacul unui jucator de Counter Strike de 18 ani asupra unei scoli, in care a ranit 37 persoane si s-a sinucis. Ca de obicei politicieni actioneaza cu solutii la fel de violente ca si situatiile care au provocat temerile. Mai multe informatii aici. Permalink Trimite prin email [...]

@Move_Zig
Show me one european country the US of A brought "freedom", apart from Germany and that one was rather a joint project. Not included the half of Germany and Europe "you" gave to the freedom loving f****** USSR.
Thank you so much, wanna ask my mother how it was to grow up and live in the
GDR. Wanna know who delivered us from that evil, we have, the same ones who don't understand the concept of freedom.
Frontiersman, yeah right, explore the west and rape and kill everything you approach, that's FREEDOM bitch!

ROFLMAO!

I'm thinking that if games have the power to instill violence and militant behaviour in kids, then anyone who pulls out a gun at school would immediately be blown away by all the counter terrorist wannabe's or Quake guards protecting mankind from evil.
As any self respecting gamer knows, its not the killing, or the violence that makes a game good, its about immersing yourself in a world where you are saving mankind from evil on your own or with your team. It gives you self respect and a sense of self worth on a small scale. We have all learned it's easier in the game cos real life is realistically difficult (doh!) and if someone gets this message all mixed up and goes on a rampage in real life, it simply means his parents or the system has failed him/her.. Games are not the problem. Media is not the problem. Discipline and family relationships are... it seems.

[...] Thanks to the French government developers with a history of innovation are going to be able to create unique, risky games without having to face as much financial uncertainty.  Also, some other excellent European developers will have a game-friendly option in an increasingly hostile environment.  Germany, in an extreme case of anti-video game sensibilities, has proposed legislation that would require jail time for game players and have already gone as far as to raid Crytek’s offices.  In fact, just read through some of this crap from a search for “German” on GamePolitics.com. [...]

I couldn't understand some parts of this article and Players, but I guess I just need to check some more resources regarding this, because it sounds interesting.

Now that's odd...

Certainly I did write that blurb attributed to me above, but I don't ever recall posting it on this website, much less even knowing that this website exists.

I normally post in another forum connected to a different Blog.

How curious.

With respect to a response to my (forwarded) post:

I can see that there exists a certain class of cynical and vocal youth who are completely unschooled in history. And this is a shame, as a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

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