December 7, 2006
While the German government considers legislation which would criminalize the development, distribution and even play of violent games, a leading developer says it may be forced to relocate if such a law is passed.As reported by Gamespot, Crytek CEO Cevat Yerli (left) told the German-language program Focus TV:
Perhaps (if the law passes) there won't be a Crytek in Germany. That would mean we'd have to get out of here and go elsewhere.
The proposed German law features penalties which range from increasing the current restrictions on violent game sales to imprisonment for the people who create, distribute or play them.
Should Crytek choose to leave Germany for pastures new (not so impossible, as print advertising for jobs at Crytek boast of their multi-national, all-English speaking staff), they'll be taking with them 135 employees and a reported budget for their next game, Crysis
of over twenty million euro.-Reporting from the U.K., GP Eurospondent Mark Kelly
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Unless I'm missing something, this law can only apply to German citizens living in Germany. So, all it will achieve is:
1 - To destroy the German game development industry, by having developers either leave Germany or get thrown in jail. This won't do good things for the German economy.
2 - To stop shops from stocking 90% of the games available in the rest of the world (Germany has extreme censorship laws for games as it is, and if they're claiming that even the titles that currently make it onto German shelves is still too violent, then this law would seem to rule out any game involving physical conflict). This will damage the economy too, as many high street game stores will have to close down because they're not allowed to sell the games people want.
3 - German gamers will import games, in secret (ironically meaning that they'll be getting the non-censored versions the rest of the world gets). Anyone caught will be thrown in jail, where no doubt they'll learn more about violence and crime than any game can teach them. Robbed of their future, I can picture things going badly for them when they get out after serving their time.
I really don't see any of this happening.
Guard: Wake up! We've got a new one here! Introduce yourself to your new cellmate.
Prisoner 1: My name is Gunther. I abused my wife for years and she finally turned me in to the police, so I'm serving a three year sentence. What'd you do?
New Prisoner: I worked on a video game where you can shoot people in the head. They... They gave me three years, too.
Prisoner 1: You sick bastard.
If this law passes (although from what some people have mentioned, no one actually supports it and this is getting blown way out of proportions) I see pretty much the same effects as prohibition had here. Gamers will import the games in, smuggle them if they have to. Effectively, it would just be taking away a chunk of the economy from the hard working retail stores and giving it to the smugglers.
your correct about each part except for the third i believe... The law is placed only upon developers and distributers... So i don't think gamers would get imprisoned for just owning the game... though i wouldn't be surpirsed if the nutcase did throw that into the legislation; making it illegal just to own the game...
Though if by some extreemly off chance this law did pass, the law could be seen as a blessing in diguise though... When all the violent games are gone, and the country's youth has not improved one little bit, Germany can than be used an example why games are not a cause of violence and why banning games is a pointless effort... unfortunatly, the german gamers would still have to suffer for the next few years until their government wised up
Jobs
Usually comes back to bite them in the arse next election:
And my opponent is directly responsible for the loss of X jobs in the last few years. I for one am working to CREATE jobs for germans, not lose them. *crowd cheers*
Yeah. It's good that people are alarmed over the far-reaching consequences and I'm a little worried myself, but I have the feeling that some here might take the phrase "proposed law" too literally.
1.) All he says is basically "let's think about ammending the current laws to create further restrictions". It's not like there is a law already drawn up ready to be voted over. This might be shot down before any detailed deliberations take place.
Beckstein is somewhat known for suggesting outrageous and very restrictive laws
2.) In Germany the states can't decide that much on their own. About the only area where they have complete autonomy is education. But in this case all they can do is introduce a law proposal into the second chamber of parliament (sort of like US Senate). Then all the other states and the first chamber have a say in it too.
And the government. The federal justice ministry for example said that the current laws are sufficient
Btw, Crytek is the only German software developer who produces FPS. The rest focuses on other genres like simulations, RPGs or RTS. So the impact on the industry wouldn't be that great.
Even if Cryotek is the only one producing FPS games now, it sets a very bad precident which might just cause companies to relocate their resources. While the chances of it passing are slim, I'm willing to bet that exactly zero executives are willing to risk jail over an interactive piece of software. Additional fees, loss of tax breaks, and even age-restrictions won't cause a developer to up and leave... but if there's a chance their million dollar investment could cause criminal charges even if it never sees a German release? That's a different matter entirely. They'll bug out real fast.
And the current §131 StGB is already used on video games (complete with fines and a maximum of 1 year jailtime), like e.g. Manhunt.
Though, I've never heard of anyone being jailed by this law - the most extreme case I'm aware of are two importers of Asian splatter movies who got fined a few hundred euros.
What Beckstein proposes is adding some formulations to that same paragraph so it could be applied to any game depicting violence. And probably change the presently used interpretation of "violence glorifying" to a lower treshold
also: how do they plan on stopping people from playing excessivly violent games when many players allready have them in thier houses? they'd have to go door to door, rounding up every single copy of any violent game out there.
i think the very idea that this law is created is absurd and i pray it doesn't pass. yah school shootings are no good, its an absolute shame. but we still have never seen any hard proof that video games are the cause.
I was commenting on the proposed law as it is being reported, and the proposals include jailing players of violent games. I don't for a second think they'll actually get this law passed, but jailing players is something Gunther Beckstein seems to want.
My post was just a quick back-of-an-envelope prediction as to the likely consequences of approving and enforcing the law. I imagine the German government will do much the same thing when looking at the proposal, which is why it won't happen.
Oh and yeah
restrictions on violent game sales to imprisonment for the people who create, distribute or play them.
Can you tell me where in the bill it says jail time for game players? I find it so incredibally hard to believe that I think you may have mis-understood the bill.
I have a better prediction (assuming it actually means jail time for palyers). A MASSIVE protest possibly a riot at some German government building (or two). I mean heck if this bill actually got passed in the U.S. I'd happily join some kind of massive protest against it (although given the current political climate this probably won't happen). Now if there is a protest this can be good and bad for gamers.
The good.
People will realize that there are more of us then most people think
They will realise we can organize
If the protest is monumentally huge they may even can the current german game censorship laws to try to win back support
The bad,
may casts gamers in a negative light
police brutality as seen in U.S. hippie protests
The ugly,
Scenes of the protest should it turn into a riot
[Insert relevant Clint Eastwood quote here]
Well put,
Again, this is not a bill. It's just a proposal to create one. That's why it's so extreme
There might be various versions flying around on the web, but one does say that "creation, distribution and posession" should be illegal.
Maybe he didn't even think it through and accidently lumped posession together with distribution. But you never know with that guy
I hope you're right. That's what I'm hoping for that these companies make the economy suffer, so the politicians will go find something else to complain about.
Sick bastards!
You're more than welcome to come to Vancouver, BC. I'll even help you move - I've got a buddy with a van if you wanna do it next weekend.
Sincerely,
kindjie
Ps. I doubt this law is actually going to pass...
If they don't like it, let them to get the fuck out. Or maybe they are thretening all those armies of idiots who don't have anything better to do with their time, just practicing killing skills, enjoing blood and guts spilling out of their screens and willing to pay millions to the "developer" for it. How about some games which require you to think, so that your IQ rises a little above 100? I hope they are going to pass this law now and not only in Germany but in US espesially, where number of morons is catastropical.
English is my fourth language and I bet the only foregin sentence you can say is "asta la vista baby". This is a kind of response I just expected.
No one really cares if your fourth language is English or not Kosmos, this is about freedom of speech and expression, not that you are (supposedly) more intelligent and therefore have a right to decide that certain people can't do certain things, that isn't how Democracies work. Your comments are along the same lines of most politicians, we think this and so should you.
Violent games are as fun as many others, but some play on that element of gameplay as if that is all there is to it. Manhunt was a game I only decided to try out of interest because the press here in the UK linked it to a murder similar in nature that a (underage) boy happened to commit who'd played it. Guess what? It was decidingly average or poor and only worth seeing because of wanting to see what the problem was.
Oh and @Lhea
Don't give people ammunition, kosmos was right that it was an expected response, your comment was just a blatent attack on him, kosmos was at least trying to speak in full english even if it was slightly broken but proved he earnt it with his own response.
I am not a politician and I will never be one. I am just talking about common sense. One day I was sitting on the grass in New York's central park on beautifull sunday afternoon, reading my book, eating my sandwich along with bottle of beer (German beer). I was arrested for that. Is it Democracy? You tell me.
And just read that:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/09/german-legislation-would-jail-fps-gam...
Any more questions?
Would you have us release Charles Manson? After all, his defence was that the Beatles 'White' Album instructed him to kill a pregnant woman. Quite frankly, believing everything that comes from the Press is not to be recommended.
If you think that banning violent games is going to reduce the number of 'morons' in ANY country you are disillusioned. I'm in the UK, we HAVE laws that make it illegal to sell games to underage buyers, together with almost every other kind of Media. I also have knowledge of our history, not just between the UK and Germany, but such things as the Inquisition, the Crusades and the Civil War. And believe you me, we have the same percentage of morons here as anywhere else.
Violent games aren't the problem, never have been, blaming them is ignoring the real problems, greed, frustration, poverty, human nature and a whole host of other things.
Only one thing to say, thanks for the dignified response, because what you said is exactly the point I wanted, the fact of repression.
Counterstrike is a reasonable choice of target, but it only defined what someone did, the case I referred to was proven false later, blown out of proportions by the media. The people who considered that Counterstrike was a cause were not psychologists, and yet, there is a higher risk there as I personally know that it used to be free to download and play. Neither side of the argument can be proven, was he influenced by the game or was the game an example of what he wanted to do in his head before playing it? Was it even possible that his parents stopped him from playing it and the next thing he tried it in real life?
The US does have plenty of idiots in powerful positions I admit though, after the Hot Coffee mod that GTA: San Andreas had, where did they attack next? The Sims 2, because it could allow you to mod things like removing the blur, which it only turned out had Barbie/Ken franchise style bodies.
http://uk.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html?sid=6129609
The fact is, there are countries that want to make a combined internet censorship to control what we do on here. How long before it would become illegal to have an opinion? A little extreme maybe but smaller battles like this one could be what stops momentum in the moronic minority that are allowed to say what should be and shouldn't.
I'll finish my comments with one thing though, I admit that I would use examples from games that I consider would be appropriate to happen to people who annoy me, but that is the extent of it's influence on me. When it comes down to children who should never have legally had their hands on something, it's the fault of either parents for buying it them or the retailers who didn't follow the laws already in place, it has never been the game at fault.