Query: Do other hobbies for children/teenagers promote literacy? For example, football, generally considered to be a "wholesome" and "worthy" pastime for high-school age people. The muscle-heads at my school aren't even reading what they have to for school assignments, much less for enjoyment. And most of these are the kind of people who consider gaming a "wussy" or "nerdy" hobby (unless, of course, it's Madden or GTA). Is it really video games that are causing a decline in reading, or is it simply the fact that people don't want to read anymore?

Illiteracy = Not being able to read...Am I correct? Just because they dont read books does not mean that they dont read.

I admit that it may sound a little wierd but video games are merely books with sound, graphics, and a more involved interaction that books cannot match. Although I admit books do provide more detail and more creativity, do not look down on video games as being inferior to books.

Honestly poeple talk up books a LITTLE too much (they are good, I read a lot, dont misinterpret me). However, Theres plenty of badly and poorly written books out there as well as poor video games. FOr every bug in a game you find a misprint or an error in a book.

*Is a video game player*

*Is currently a high-school honors student whose favorite books include Anthony Burgess' "A Clockwork Orange" and Douglas Adams' "Hitchhiker's Guide To The Universe", splits his spare time in class by either reading novels such as the ones I mentioned, *graphic* novels ("Johnny The Homicidal Maniac" needs more recognition for being possibly one of the greatest, most rightfully pessimistic social commentaries of our generation, in ANY artform), or psychology/philosophy books, and greatly enjoys reading about different cultures, religions and spiritualities, and really loves getting to sound off about his political and artistic opinions in essays and analytical papers, as I'd wager you can tell right now.*


Or, going the short road... This man is a crackpot. And not one of the GOOD crackpots, like John Waters...

This guy really need to play Brainage, it really is a great game, need a PSP port though. Final Fantasy series taught me how to read roman numerals, and after a couple generations of Unreal and Quake have sharpened my reflexes too, on top of that, i always now when someones behind me. Ive aslo done A+ worthy history reports off of the Call of Duty series. When the game developers know what there doing, (and in Infinity Wards case with CoD, do the correct historical research) gaming can become suprisingly educational.
I mean, every one knows about D-Day but who knew that Rangers needed to scale a 3 story tall cliff to destroy fixed artillery placement (which at the time were gone and had to be sought after) that could jepordize (sp?) D-Day... there ya go, learned something new.

what would he say to the fact that final fantasy ( the first one) helped me with my reading while I was young

Because no one ever does any reading in RPGs. *sigh* Hell, the argument probably works the same for movies, until you realize there's a Subtitle option on most DVDs nowadays. Seriously, this guy needs to be beaten across the head with a copy of Phoenix Wright. Not only could he learn a thing or two about law, but he'll learn that this game really makes you think. And read. And remember. And puzzlesolve.

But seriously, this guy makes it seem like a little funtime that isn't being wasted instead of being used for 'education' is a bad thing. I bet this guy thinks that recess in schools is a bad thing too. *sigh*

The red soldiers robotically slaughtered the white soldiers, and then they did it again, that was it.

He's got a point. If it were truly historical, it would have been followed by the white soldiers slaughtering the red soldiers, to avenge their earlier slaughter, and then the red soldiers would once more have slaughtered the white soldiers, while shouting the "medieval Viking" equivalent of "Remember the Alamo!"

On the other hand, this is just another rant by an ignorant person scared of what he doesn't understand. Video games make our kids stupid, rock music turns them into devil worshippers, and the novel will lead to the downfall of civilization.

K

Here's a jewel from a comment on his website:

"They drain children of an imagination and help the boundaries of right and wrong become blurred."

Um, from a "games in education" point of view, this is a good thing. People outside the UK may be unaware that Boris is a largely self-created joke figure, tolerated by his party and liked mainly because he's a reactionary buffoon.

There's a TV programme called "Have I Got News for You" where he is a periodic presenter, mainly so he can come out with crazy statements and be the butt of humour for his ignorance. He plays up the reactionary angle for effect.

He's amusing, but no-one outside a few doddery Tories takes him seriously. Remember the slogan: "Boris Johnson is the person to lead this country back into the 17th century!"

Cue also the last Conservative party conference, where he was chased down the street by journalists demanding he say something controversial.

And yes, I wrote biols instead of boils in my last post. Sue me :p

I wonder one thing. Why do games even need to teach you anything? I play games because it is a hobby. I don't see any reason why every hobby needs to be educational. Nowadays, we are living in a society where a lot of people think that everything you do needs to be for the greater good of society. It seems that there is a huge taboo on doing something because you think it is fun. Not everything in my life should be about educating myself.

If this person thinks that children don't read enough, schools should put a focus on language skills instead of just math. Let them focus more on oral bookreports. At least that way the children have to actually read the book, instead of being able to use a written report that they download from the internet.

To be fair to Boris, he's usually sincere. He may be an idiot, but he's an idiot with his own opinions rather than a bandwagon jumper.

It can't be right that the Playstation and XBox caused this illiteracy when the Commodore Amiga, Sega Megadrive, the NES, the C64 and the Atari 2600 didn't. Video games aren't as new an invention as people like to think.

On the other hand, he does make a good point, and then follows it to completely the wrong conclusion. That was "Everything was programmed, spoon-fed, immediate…". Far too many games are pretty mindless. Too many studios just want to churn out formulaic clones of established concepts rather than encourage thought and strategy. I'd love to see more emphasis on promoting more thoughtful games (which would probably include the example Boris gave).

I just read the artical on his web site and i must say, I think I just lost a few IQ points reading that. It's not just the fact that he has no idea what hes talking about that makes me upset. It's the fact that he acts like computers and video games are a form of plauge that is slowly killing our youth. Maybe the reasion that kids today dont want to read is that the books are just uninteresting, Or they really are a chore. Who really want to read a book about a angsty teenager when you your self are an angsty teenager. Then you have to wright a long drawn out essay on some chapter about what it ment to me and the symbolism of some obscure item in the chapter. If i'm gona read, I'd want the book to be imaginitive and exciting. Not something I'm going to expereance just by steping out side.

This makes you wonder if the politicians can actually read what they wrote and see how stupid they sound.

Isn't he the same guy who claimed the New Guinea embassy was hosting "orgies of cannibalism"? The guy's a loon.

I know this is just one example, and doesn't really reflect the masses, but of my friends, I'm an "average" gamer, and yet I read more books than most of my friends who haven't touched a console since high school.

Perhaps gaming is cutting into education, but so does anything. I used to skip homework to read my fantasy books. My friend would be glued to the TV, and another friend would spend all his time at the rink practicing for the hockey tournament... And yet all three of us got decent marks...

Gawd forbid this guy go on about movies. You could easily convert his arguments to watching TV or movies... And they'd still be just as meaningless.

Kids aren't playing games in the classroom, so if kids aren't learning, maybe you should try looking there first. THEN focus on why the parents aren't instilling a good work ethic in their kids to get the homework done...

I convinced my mom to get me the original Final Fantasy because of all the reading. I also got hooked on The Romance of the Three Kingdoms by playing Dynasty Warriors. Now unfortunatley most of the home consoles have spoken parts so reading isn't as important, but like Gamer Dad was saying- GBA & DS Games have tons of reading in the games.

I'm surprised he can still talk, with his foot shoved that far down his throat. This is like the drunken ramblings of Mel Gibson, only instead of being anti-semetic he's a player hater.

Wow. If I'm illiterate, then where did this degree in English come from?

@Yoshiko

Nah Boris is nothing like JT... Except for the part about nobody listening to him. He's just A) a tory, and B) laughable - so no-one really cares what he says.

@Craig

Considering how the Cdn government put a pro-industry, anti-environment guy in charge of the Dept of the Environment... Yes, governments do ironic stuff like that all the time. ;)

Ministers in charge of Dept's rarely have any eduction/qualifications in relation to the department itself. Ministers set policy based on what will get the government elected next time. Those who actually know what they're doing (usually) are the ones working IN the department. Politicians come and go, but civil servants get all the work done...

Easy solution.... just force all games, movies, and tv shows to have captions/subtitles. That way kids will read without even realizing that it's happening.


Sneaky, eh?

What about the seven million active subscribers (a bunch of which are kids) playing WoW.

The game not only simulates an actual market place, but was involved in a study on how MMO's galvanize task oriented strategy in kids, which is an important factor in living thats rarely ever taught at a young age.

Lets not forget that you cant really play WoW if you cant read quests and communicate effectively with others.

For god sake, somone scored a top job in finance because he put his guild leading history on his resume.

Lastly, dont forget about the endless numbers of RPG's and RTS's like Civilization and Kessen.

OBJECTION!

Most games require lots and lots of reading.

HOLD IT!

Especially Phoenix Wright.

"I wonder one thing. Why do games even need to teach you anything? I play games because it is a hobby. I don’t see any reason why every hobby needs to be educational. Nowadays, we are living in a society where a lot of people think that everything you do needs to be for the greater good of society. It seems that there is a huge taboo on doing something because you think it is fun. Not everything in my life should be about educating myself. "

And why do you assume that games cannot be education while being fun? Frell, when I was a kid I made it a point to read the Civlopedia text (and later Centaripedia) for whatever technology my little Vikings(or Peacekeepers) had discovered in Civ II(or Alpha Centauri).
Knowing the (albeit condensed) history behind humanity’s discovery and use of that advancement made me feel even better about having chosen to research it(e.g. the game was more fun for me).

I am going to try typing this comment with my eyes closed, starting in the next paragraph:

I don't think that this guy has any creidibility. He clearly has no experience with games and he's apparently a laughable guy in the UK. I could go on and on, but everybody has already said everything that needs to be said, so I don't think that I could add much except that I am very literate and currently typing with muy eyes closed. I'm pretty sure that my typos are minimal.

Sorry to post over and over again, but I just realized when I read his website that he's blaming the wrong agent for the correct reasons. He seems to be complaining that boys hate to do book-related assignments in school (e.g. book analysis and reports). I haven't read any studies to this effect, but it seems to be a natural notion that if two things go hand-in-hand that the brain affiliates them as a group. More specifically, schools attach work to book-reading, so children affiliate reading with work. That's it.

The solution is not to eradicate video games; that was never mentioned in my analysis. It might be something chosen preferentially over something affiliated with work, but it is not the cause of illiteracy. The correct solution is not even to stop the book reports and analysis. I have always hated those, but they are necessary nonetheless. The best answer is to find some way of making that particular work more enjoyable. I am not going to delve too deeply into that prospect right now, since any ideas I come up with would never become concrete. I'm sure that British school employees are not reading GamePolitics. However, the idea of giving kids some sort of reward for their work or perhaps making the work itself the reward should be considered.

"On the 28th of December 2006 Johnson wrote a comment piece in The Telegraph[10] turning his attention to computer games. In it he wrote "Some children have it bad. Some are miraculously unaffected. But millions of seven- to 15-year-olds are hooked, especially boys, and it is time someone had the guts to stand up, cross the room and just say no to Nintendo. It is time to garrotte the Game Boy and paralyse the PlayStation, and it is about time, as a society, that we admitted the catastrophic effect these blasted gizmos are having on the literacy and the prospects of young males." He went on to say "We get on with our hedonistic 21st-century lives while in some other room the nippers are bleeping and zapping in speechless rapture, their passive faces washed in explosions and gore. They sit for so long that their souls seem to have been sucked down the cathode ray tube." The bit about souls and cathode ray tubes is a typical quote from Boris. The comments started getting wider coverage a week after the initial publication increasing the chance of a response from concerned parties similar to that in some of the above examples."

From wikipedia

Boris is a fun little guy, and he does have a point to an extent, before you all shout at me let me explain. :D

First, the English schooling system is a pile of steaming horse dung. Having worked with and around kids here for the last 2 years, it really makes me angry to see how much they are spoon fed at school.
Second, kids that are a product of this schooling system NEVER read anything if they can help it, and so will skip past any narrative in the games they play just to get to the action.

So Boris is probably right that most kids don't learn a lot from games, except for hand-eye coordination, spacial awareness, and maybe if they have the patience for RTS, some tactical forethought. But these are not things that can be easily seen, and of course kids that don't like a metal challenge are going to ignore the more complex games.

In short what Boris sees is not the course but the symptom. I myself learnt a hell of a lot of history from some games, and some science. And this made me want to find out more.

Just a copy & paste of my comment from his website:

"No, Mr. Johnson, it is about time you should learn values of human righths, freedom of choice and tolerance, as this article is no more than an uneducated and uninsightful attack on those. The main purpose of video games is for people to entertain themselves, and people always had a need for entertainment to relax themselves (ever heard of Roman phrase "Panem et circenses"? - while Romans enjoyed Gladiator fights, today we have more civilized forms on amusement, like sports, arts, even computer and console games). However, entertainment has always been a thorn in eyes of authocrats, as it doesn't help them spread fear in people they rely so much upon. So whenever a new form of entertainment is introduced, such authocrats will do their best to invalidate, or even outlaw it - football, television, rock music - they all in their early days had a very hard time getting their place under The Sun.

However, this isn't only about entertainment but about intolerance, because politicans, pragmatic as they are, don't want to promote differences in people as they don't need votes from everyone, only from majority. That's why I call Mr. Johnson's text as intolerance - it's no better than spreading racial or religous hatred, the only difference being it is targeted at different minority. Unfortunately, knowing a difference between good and evil is something people gain empirically, not something they're born with and that's why many people will support his words without being aware they're spreading intolerance. If I wasn't playing games, would that guarantee I would think differently than Mr. Johnson? No, but I have enough experience with them to know his perception is wrong.

Also, why majority of game-haters always perceive them as something only children are interested in (other than to prove how they have abslutely no insight on the matter)? With computer technology being so evolved today, average gamer's age is getting up and up, and I wouldn't be surprised if games become more popular to old people who are in their retirements, as they usually have boring lives. I am aged over 30, I have a university degree, a regular job, but I'm also spending most of my free time by playing games. I don't have any children, but if I had them, I certainly wouldn't forbid them to play games, as long as they are aware some things, like school, are more important (although this could be relativized, as I've seen people gaining more success in life than me with less education, and some people earn for living by making, or even playing games - although the latter is much rarer) and as long they play games suitable for their age (games, just like movies, can have age rating, and even when they have no age restrictions, they might be over-complicated for small children to understand).

Also, not all games can be treated equal, just like a pornographic book cannot be treated same as the one written by Shakespeare - a game could be mindlessly simple, or it could require planning and thinking (for example, Mr. Johnson should've tried the game called "Planescape: Torment" for the greatest amount of text and dialogue in a computer game ever before blaming games for promoting illiteracy) - playing a game of chess or quiz on your computer still qualifies as a game and as such, falls under Mr. Johnson trivial accusations, even though the former promotes thinking and the latter promotes knowledge. But mindless or not, they always fill out one purpose: to entertain. Is watching 22 people on a large grass field running to catch a ball (a.k.a. football) less mindless than sending red soldiers against white soldiers? No, but it still fills than one purpose, so people enjoy it. There's no reason to treat games any different."

I got to the part where he refers to games as "blasted gizmos" and I almost had to stop reading. I guess I'll cut him some slack since he's british. As I read the article I couldn't help but imagine his voice sounding exactly like Professor Hubert Farnsworth from Futurama.

To reiterate what has been said before, Boris is something of a public figure of ridicule. That's not to say that some people mock him in the same way that they mock other politicians; this guy is invited on TV specifically to have people laugh at him. He's a bit quaint, a bit antiquated, and generally a bit rubbish at getting his point across without sounding like a parody of a British MP.

With regards to what he's saying, rather than the way he's saying it, he's almost right. Almost, but crucially not quite. In my opinion he's right in saying that kids are generally getting worse academically, and he's right in saying that playing computer games isn't going to solve the problem. He's wrong in drawing a link between the two; other things that won't teach children are playing football, building forts out of pillows, and eating crisps. It is the job of the school system and the parents to educate children.

God i love Boris I really do, what you guys on the other said of the pond have to know is that Boris is pretty much thought of as a joke, he only really ever open his mouth to insert his other foot into it.

Try not to take anything he says to serious, the guy is a legend for all the wrong (comic) reasons

good old Boris, how you cheer me up

I know this has been said a million times already, but I just want to add another voice and personal experience to the fray.

My reading is BETTER for having played video games as a child. Video games involve a lot of reading and while more and more games are voice acted these days, there are and will always be games and parts of voice acted games that require reading.

If any kid plays any Zelda or Final Fantasy game, s/he is in for a LOT of reading. I mean, heck... have you read those quest descriptions in World of Warcraft? They're pretty verbose.

Hasn't it been shown in studies that children who play video games are more literate and have better hand-eye coordination? Those studies came out just a few years ago--are they already obsolete? Wish I could cite them properly.

Sheesh, take a stroll through a Barnes & Noble sometime. There are now book series' based off Myst, Halo (I plowed through Ghosts of Onyx overnight. It was GREAT) Descent, Warcraft, Doom, Perfect Dark (a prequel, no less) Tomb Raider, ect.

While some of them have failed to live up to the storytelling standards of the games they're based off of, many of them succeed in carrying on the intriguing storylines of their source.
I highly recomend
-Halo (Fall of Reach, the Flood, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx are all exelent)
-Tomb Raider (I liked the Amulet of Power and the Lost Cult, but the Man of Bronze was kind of corny in places IMO)
-Perfect Dark: Initial Vector

WHAT? This is ridiculous. These games don't make people illiterate. I refuse to believe that. What is it with older people? They can't stop blaming everything that happens on video games. Something goes wrong blame video games. A psychopath kills some people blame video games. These people need to stop acting so childish and immature. Politicians are bums and gamers have to step up to stop this CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm way past tired of everything being blamed on my favorite pasttime. I've had it. It makes me SICK TO MY STOMACH. I'M GOING TO THROW UP IF I KEEP WRITING, SO JUST STOP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@ Terminator44

That's why I used the term "functioning school system. I am well aware that children are being churned thruogh school without learning anything. This isn't the fault of videogames. It's the fault of a broken education system, and the one here in the USA needs fixing soon.

As for the replacement of the don't walk signs to the pictogram, that was done to accomodate foriegn language speakers. Remember, technically USA has no official language.

I can safely say that after reading that I don't feel illiterate, but I do feel more like a gamer. I'm 15 and I love writing, from journalism to poetry, it's really something I love. I've failed one class so far, and I can say without doubt it was never because of video games distracting me, me merging reality and fantasy, or being illiterate. Never really liked arithmetic and science, I just feel at home with languages and history.