Utah Legislature Will Consider Video Game Bill

January 10, 2007 -

Video game legislation which failed to pass the Utah legislature in 2006 appears on its way to a second chance in 2007.

As reported last year by GamePolitics, HB257, sponsored by former Rep. David Hogue (R) passed Utah's House overwhelmingly, but was never voted on by the Senate. Controversial Miami attorney Jack Thompson had a hand in drafting the bill.

Hogue, who made a failed bid for election as a state senator, is now out of politics. His bill, however, lives on after being revived by Rep. Scott Wyatt (R, seen at left).

Now known as HB50, the bill was turned over yesterday to the Chief Clerk of the Utah House by general counsel. The measure seeks to define video game violence as "harmful to minors." Language in the bill defines "inappropriate violence" in video games as that which:


  • appeals to the morbid interest of minors in violence

  • is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is suitable material for minors; and

  • does not have serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors.


All in all, the Utah language is quite similar to that which GamePolitics reported on in yesterday's exclusive story on Massachusetts' upcoming bill.



The language is also quite similar to Louisiana's failed 2006 video game law, which was ruled unconstitutional by a Federal District Court judge in November. The following is from Louisiana's bill, also written by Jack Thompson:


  • The average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the video or computer game, taken as a whole, appeals to the minor's morbid interest in violence.

  • The game depicts violence in a manner patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community with respect to what is suitable for minors.

  • The game, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors.


Comments

Re: Utah Legislature Will Consider Video Game Bill

Wow...this again. While they're at it, why don't they outlaw books for minors? Why don't they outlaw television for minors? Even the news is as violent and "morbid" as some of these games are, why don't they outlaw the news? Music? Art often contains nude figures, according to Jack, outlawed...While it's a good idea "in principle" (although it can also be argued that it sets dangerous precedents in terms of delegating freedom to the government), the US Constitution is pretty clear that it's not allowed, both in terms of freedom of speech, and equality before the law (even when it comes to minors)

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jackkatewinslet

 

[url=http://www.drugaddiction.net/utah]Utah Drug Addiction[/url]

@ Brokenscope and hayabusa75

I don't know how to not include Jack Thompson in the discussions about anti-game fanatucs when he's the main one. Every time I hear of someone protesting against violent video games, the name Jack Thompson seems to come up. He's the main one involved in this. By Rockstar is not guilty of anything, I mean guilty of crimes I don't mean that all their games are automatically top notch and perfect although I'm sure some are. Those protesters were protesting peacefully yes I'll give you that one, but they were making extortionist type demands and I think that anti-game actvists are the real thugs. I read on a website one time that Jack Thompson called gamers thugs. Well guess what, he's the real thug.

I just finished reading the diatribe that is this forum. It seems as though all of you want to be taken seriously, as we all should. If we are going to successfully advocate video games, we MUST be taken seriously.

In that regard, I hope that many of you will take my advice:

1. Do your research. If you want to make a point, back it up. Don't tell me that we live in a less violent world because you don't hear from the KKK anymore. Give me a fact, not a generalized, unsubstantiated opinion.

2. Make your point and move on. If you wrote it once, I GOT IT. I understand. Writing the same comment a hundred and one times does not make it more effective. You are only wasting your reader's valuable time.

3. Avoid becoming emotional. If you start attacking specific people (i.e. Jack Thompson or other posters), you are taking the focus off the issue at hand. Attack the issue.

4. Check your grammar. If you kan't spel correktlee or dont' use punctuat!on currectly, your readers will assume you are a moron and your statements will have little effect.

5. Avoid offending your audience. I am a game-lover. I am pursuing a career in games. But I also happen to be gay, and I found some of the Daniel's comments blatently offensive. You insulted an entire class of people who have no relevence to your topic.

6. If you really want to be taken seriously, stop writing dribble in an online forum and try publishing your own paper or article on video games' effects on society.

...Or is it that you don't want to put down your controller? :)

To quote Asok the intern, "My frustration has become searing psychological pain".

@Daniel:

Why do you keep misquoting everyone? I never claimed that people don't take JT seriously, I said that he's a joke on THIS website. You too, are not taken seriously on THIS website. Fanatical behaviour isn't tolerated on THIS website, at least not by the other members.

You need to stop boiling everything down to Jack Thompson. By making him the basis for all your opinions, you actually are giving him more importance, not lessening it.

The right to protest peaceably is a fundamental right in this country. They were doing just that. That has to be the most idiotic statement I have ever heard from you.

Rockstar is guilty of one thing. Bad programing and Quality control.

Sweet Jesus. Why is IBM called international business machines instead of Big fucking computers and connectivity solutions.

Penny arcade refers to the old old old mechanical arcades back in the 30s and 50s. The penny, not the quarter, was the staple back then. They are a web comic. They provide funny stories and tiny tid bits of opinion on the video game world. They are pretty influential among gamers both console and PC.

He called them an extortion factory over a donation in his name to childs play 2 years ago, $10000. It was over some stupid bet with the games industry. One he would have never honored. It was an attempt at a catch-22.

Daniel, if you are insulted by every blanket statement some idiot makes about a group you are part of you will spend much of your life angry and offended.

In my poly sci class the idiots call me shit for knowing what day of the week it is and how quickly the world is going down the path to hell. Do I care? No, the prof is going to give me an A because I did what the class required, they are going to fail and because they do not. I don't hate them, I pity them and who ever pays for their credit hours.

You know, you really spout our belief system a lot. I doubt ours are the exact same but I think you are a Christian, so close enough. "Good" job preaching the sexual immorality stuff. However you like many forget something. Forgive and be compassionate towards others. Hell at least make an attempt. Pity Jack thompson. Pity he his son. Pity his wife. They suffer much more than we do because of him. Have pity for his son who is afraid to admit who his father is. Pity thompson who will one day fade into memory with little to actually attribute to his name.

@ Brokenscope

I guess I got carried away with that statement that gay people are all against violent video games. I'm sure they're not all against it. I just think that people who are against them are pansies and I didn't like the fact that I thought hayabusa75 was saying that I was gay which I'm NOT. However, why don't you go to google.com and try to find some of my other anti-Jack Thompson posts. You won't have to look far if you type in almost anything that has to do with Jack Thompson.

You're right I hate his guts and I would never make fun of gamers and violent video games because I am a gamer and I have fought against anti-game ideas quite a bit. I have defended violent video games a bunch for many years. Also, I think that Jotun posts good comments and that's why I compliment him. We're on the same side of the issue and we feel the same way about Jack Thompson. Seriously though go to those websites and try to find some of my posts about that lying pig and, by the way, thanks for saying that I insult Jack Thompson every chance I get. That's a huge compliment and I appreciate such comments a lot keep them coming.

Yes, long repetitive rants on many websites is obviously hurting JT. I bet he is feeling the fire. Daniel.... when I saw you post for the 1st time I honestly thought you were mocking us, and trying to make fun of us. My comment on the "turd" comment was that you repeated yourself by calling them a turd and a piece of crap.

I guess my point is, we know you hate jack. We know what you think of the esrb, legislation ,sex ,religion ,bush ,and by know we can almost predict what you are going to say, and I'm getting pretty good at predicting the lenght and the number of times you are going to repeat yourself.

However I feel the need to point something out to you.
"He insults gamers and attacks games every chance he gets."

Now revised

"Daniel insults JT and attacks JT every chance he gets."

We disagree with JT because of his ideas and beliefs. We dislike/hate him because he is rude and offensive towards us. If he had the ability to remain civil I think people here would just see him as someone on the other side of the table and not as a sworn enemy.

The fact you act like him in any way shape or form is not something to be proud of.


"Hey, man, I don’t like that last line, “Have you asked out Jotun yet?” I’m not queer or I would be against violent video games."

I'm going to give you then benefit of the doubt on this one. I'm hoping I misread that one really badly. Because essentially what you are saying is that any one who is gay is anti game. Not only did you use "queer" which is generally regarded as a derogatory term, you made a generalization along with it.





@Hayabusa
You know it reminds me of a Dilbert character called topper.


Now for a nice on-topic post.

The only one of those that has nay merit whatsoever in my opinion is the morbid interest one. I mean what kid doesn't want to watch the big kid films.

How does something have scientific value for an adult and not for a child? I mean what th hell. Does turning 18 suddenly make my physics classes make sense. Damn, i should have taken phys this semester, well that 4 wasted credit hours.

.......... hehe, apparently the adult film industry is supporting HD-DVD.. so long blue-ray. Yay for RSS feeds.

@ Freekill

The only person I have insulted on here is Jack Thompson. I hate him because I've read a lot about him on other web sites. In fact, I've even posted things on other websites about him. If you would like to see them, go to google.com and type in something about Jack Thompson and you won't have to look long to find a Daniel post running down Jack Thompson. I hate his guts because I've read the things he says about games and gamers and it pisses me off. Type in Jack Thompson thinks he's Jesus.

He insults gamers and attacks games every chance he gets. That makes me mad because for years every time I hear someone running down those games and blaming them for things, it makes me furious. I can't stand it and that's why I'm the reverse of him because he can't stand to hear anything in favor of violent video games and I can't stand to hear anything against violent video games. Look at some of my other posts throughout the internet about that pig and also here at gamepolitics.com, the subject keeps coming up in the entries.

@Daniel:

It's not about what we believe, it's about the way you've been expressing YOUR beliefs. It's about YOUR frothing-at-the-mouth approach. It's about YOUR inability to see the shades of gray in the issues. You may not mean to make us look bad, but you're still doing it, and it's the WAY you do it, much more than the end result of what you believe, that's pissing me off!

Now you're lumping us into the Jack Thompson camp just because we don't close our eyes, put our hands over our ears and scream really loud like you (figuratively) when someone makes an opposing argument? Again, you manage to top yourself. I don't have to be a maniacal zealot like you to firmly disagree with everything Jack says and does. And for the record, violent media can definitely be emulated if the viewer is young enough or not mature enough. About 20 years ago when the WWF was becoming popular, I saw a twelve year old powerbomb his six year old brother through a pile of wood on the news. My last girlfriend's four year old son used to randomly punch me because it's what Batman did to the bad guys in his Batman video game. Think about it neutrally for once, instead of from the perspective of only your own life.

@ Daniel

Is Jack Thompson really worth all this fuss? Day after day, post after post, you spew the same crap about him. Do you feel threatened by him? Is that why you have to constantly repeat yourself every day, sometimes multiple times in one day?

...sorry if that sounded really rude but...sometimes it almost gives me a headache to read what you have to say, other times I am amused by it. Kind of like when Jack himself was on here, posting loud, annoying, and often repitious thoughts on those who didn't agree with him.

@ Darin

I try not to say the same things repeatedly, but I notice that Jack Thompson keeps coming up and that he won't stop attacking violent video games. I have to run him down with my comments because I don't like him. I didn't mean to be offensive up there I just thought the hayabusa75 was calling me gay and I'm NOT and I don't want people to think that I am. I also try to punctuate correctly and I'm trying to fight for violent video games because that's my favorite passtime and, quite frankly, I owe a lot to them and I can't stand to see these people attack them. Like you, I also wanted to make video games and I would except that I'm no good at math.

@ Brokenscope and hayabusa75

WOW! Where do I start? Brokenscpe, I'm flattered that you are always thinking of my posts. That's very flattering. I also have said before that a game is not automatically good if it's violent. I've played some games that are violent that SUCK! Not all violent games are fun. Fight Club is a good example. Also, haybusa75, I don't know if you're right that Jack Thompson isn't taken seriously because I have heard that he has been on 60 Minutes many times talking against violent video games and people listen to him.

Also, another thing that gets my mad is when I hear about the protest that took place about a year and a half ago. Jack Thompson led a Wahington D. C. group to New York to protest outside of Rockstar Games with signs saying that the makers of violent games were felons and should be prosecuted.

That pisses me off because I think, "What are they doing wrong? They're only trying to give people entertainment. Since when is that a crime?" They also made demands that included not realesing Bully under any circumstances and get this setting up a fund to pay for the damages done to anyone's car that could be linked to GTA. In other words, GTA was responsible for all auto accidents by anyone who played GTA. That's how crazy and how sick that man is and that's why I think he's crap. People take him seriously. Fanatics are taken serioulsy.

Let me get this strait, so you can't say I missed it. You're saying that fanatics are not taken serioulsy. If that's correct, then why is Jack Thompson being taken seriously by a lot of people? It just irritates me beyond belief when I hear about that protest that never should have been allowed to happen. The cops should have arrested the protestors because they're the real felons trying to extort money from an innocent video game company. Rockstar Games doesn't owe anyone anything and those anti-game jerks need to leave them alone because they're NOT GUILTY of anything.

I think all creative mediums allow people to produce objectionable material.
I'm not against censorship or ratings. Both help people find the content they want and prevent bad content from reaching people who don't know the difference yet.

I have a paramedic friend who personally testified against a minor where a 14 year old stabbed his opponent in Mortal Kombat 40+ times after an argument about the game. Some people are sick and should be prevented from obtaining material that will 'set them off', particularily minors.

What I am against is unclear laws that leave interpretation up to whoever and whatever they want to prosecute. Is it the game developers fault a 14 kid went on a rampage? Is it the game store? His parents?

Somewhere someone sued the kid, the kids parents, the game store, and the developer. And then they decided to lobby for legislation against violent games. That fine. That's what the free system is all about.

But legislation is where we the people should get to decide with our lawmakers what should be prohibitive and who should be punished for it. The legislation should not allow everyone to sue every body who touches the game because some irresponsible crazy kid went wild after playing it.

For the law to be acceptable, it needs 2 things.
1. Explicitly state what is prohibited.
2. Explicitly state who is responsible.
Example: Explicitely giving or selling games with a ESRB rating of Mature to a minor is prohibited by all but the minor's legal guardian(s) or those they may designate who are responsible for ensuring that such media does not result in violent or unlawful acts by the minor.

If they don't like the ESRB, it could also read: Explicitly giving or selling video games to a minor that use hand to hand weapons to physically kill and afterwards mangle another human being and show the graphic destruction of the body such as spurting blood, removing organs such as hearts and spines is prohibited by all but the minor's legal guardian(s) or those they designate who are responsible for ensuring that such media does not result in violent acts by the minor.

This explicetly states what is prohibited and does not violate parents rights like the currently proposed legislation does. I prefer the first as it leaves it up to the ESRB board as to what games are considered violent, much as movie ratings are left up to an industry association.

@ hayabusa75

Hey, man, I don't like that last line, "Have you asked out Jotun yet?" I'm not queer or I would be against violent video games. Save those kind of remarks for Jack Thompson. I think that Jotun is dedicated to attacking Jack Thompson and trying to end this threat to our games. Jotun is a gamer and he's on our side and I'm giving him some support in his attacks against this threat, but I'm no pussy. I think that last statement was tasteless and uncalled for.

@ Brokenscope

I know about the $10,000 offer and why he hates Pennyarcade, but I think he needs to stop fighting against something as innocent and pure as violent video games. It is a pity. He could do a lot to get rid of drugs. If he went after drug pushers and real criminals, he'd have something to be proud of. However, he has nothing to be proud of except the fact that he tries to get rid of and steal from innocent violent video games. He needs to attack real problems instead of being a jerk and he is a jerk.

Many years ago, he gave a card, or something like that, to a woman named Janet Reno asking her if she was gay out of nowhere. He had no right to do that. He is more than confused. He is nasty and mean to people. I mean I think he has a screw loose, but he is also mean and I think he suffers from a mental disease.

...
We believe in a constitutional right to tell whatever story you want. To create what ever art you want. To say what you think without government approval or fear of reprisal. We believe that parenting is a parental responsibility, a job that parents, not the government, is supposed to do. We believe that games are a creative medium which deserves the same protections as movies, book, paintings ,and poetry.

We strive for intelligent and open discussion. Creative thinking and informed opinions are what drives discussions on this site. Ideally anyways.

Many of us do not believe in the fuck all idea that everyone should be watching violent things every chance they get. We do not believe that violent and graphic material is something children need to see constantly.
In fact some of us find other things besides violence entertaining.

You see Daniel, we are not sure seeing as there is no proof of either position on videogames cause violence. You see buried between you post people sometimes discuss thing like for example "Are violent people attracted to games, or do games make people violent?" or "Are games, or other media enough to push someone who is unstable over the edge?"
and "What are the long term effects of games?" and even "You know... what if we are wrong, and there are some adverse long term effects of games and other media".

Your constant "well history shows" is the same kind of bullshit data that JT tries to throw. A decline in violence among youth, and an increase in sale of videogames is a correlation. However, anyone who has taken the most basics of statistics should know that correlation does NOT imply causation. Let me make that simpler for you. 2 things changing in a way that seems related does not mean one is a cause and the other is an effect. A third unknown variable could be causing both to change. Thus neither can be proven as such without extensive study of all factors involved.

Once again, you seem to completely misunderstand the point of the ESRB. Why do I bring them in, because that is your usual thing to say when you say everyone should play innocent violent videogames.

IT IS A GUIDELINE THAT EXISTS SO YOU CAN GET A GENERAL IDEA OF THE CONTENT WITHIN A GAME WITHOUT PURCHASING IT OR DOING EXTENSIVE RESEARCH. IT ALLOWS A PARENT OR EVEN THE MORALLY STRICT TO PICK UP A GAME AND DECIDE IF IT IS APPROPRIATE BASED ON ITS RATING. THE RATINGS GIVE A GENERAL GUIDELINE BASED ON WHAT SOCIETY TENDS TO RESERVE FOR ADULTS VS CHILDREN. THE ESRB DOES NOT SAY THAT NO ONE UNDER THIS AGE LIMIT SHOULD PLAY. IT SAYS THAT IT RECOMMENDS THIS AGE GUIDELINE.

read that one more time just to make sure you fucking get it.

"When you really look closely at Jack Thompson’s arguments, you can clearly see that his argument is that violent images on a screen can cause people to throw away their lives and that’s not true."

No, wrong. If not games JT would be going after violent books right now. The man honestly believes that all violent media is an affront to god. He has gone after radio and music as well. The man honestly believes he is doing the right thing.

Your policy of going out and buying a game out of spite , great just what the world needs more of, because Jack Thompson or some other anti-gamer gamer doesn't like it is stupid. Half the time it gives money for a shitty dev to make another pointless shitty and pointlessly violent game that will ride on the controversy till everyone realizes what a piece of shit it was and lets if fade into memory.

Sorry Daniel, what you know isn't a fact, it is an opinion. IT is what you think. You don't know anything, you think you know. You can't know since a lack of evidence against something does not make it true.

Now let me summarize.

Little tommy is most likely not ready to understand GTA:VC at the age of 6.

There is no proof one way or another on the issue of the effects of games. IT has not been studied.

History, thus far has never proved one of your points.

JT doesn't have games, he hates all media that goes against his narrow ideology.

THe ESRB is not a restriction, it is a series of ratings designed to make parenting easier.

Now in closing.

I tire, as I cannot speak for others on this subject, I tire of your posts. You only seem to post here for one purpose. To call JT and other activists idiots, turds, morons, idiots, fools, crap, shit heads, and a veritable cornucopia of creative derogatory terms. Did I say creative, sorry, I meant the same 10 names over and over. You do the same thing with most of your initial posts.

Jack thompson is an idiot. He needs to be put in a mental hospital. He is a bad lawyer. He is a piece of crap. He is an ambulance chaser. Sex is bad. JT thinks he is jesus. Games don't cause violence, they are innocent, violent videogames are good, everyone should play them. The violent videogame industry is gods gift to man. I refuse to see any other possible points of view. I also refuse to add anything to discussions in the threads. I am a history major so I should know that history proves that violent vidoegames are good. I've made posts all over the net. I hate jack Thompson. I insult jack thompson whenever I can.

Wow, I think I may have just summed up the general idea of every post you ever made with just about the same level of grammar and coherency.

I don't know how else to say it. You contribute little or nothing to the site. I always ask myself on a thread I didn't catch before morning classes "I wonder what vintage Daniel posted today, old Daniel with a hint of rational, or oblivious with a pointless comedic reference?".

Change your posting style, change the content of your posts, and contribute god damnit.

@Daniel:

I don't know how to say this any clearer, because your narrow little mind just doesn't get it. YOU'RE A DAMN JOKE ON THIS WEBSITE, ALMOST AS BIG A JOKE AS THOMPSON. YOU'RE MAKING THE REST OF US LOOK BAD. FOR ALL THAT IS DECENT AND HOLY, PLEASE STOP IT. AND BY "IT", I MEAN EVERYTHING I MENTIONED IN MY LAST POST TO YOU.

*stops to breathe*

@ Brokenscope, hayabusa75 and Bigman-K

I don't mean to make our side look bad. My main argument is that violent images on a screen don't make people want to throw their lives away. When you really look closely at Jack Thompson's arguments, you can clearly see that his argument is that violent images on a screen can cause people to throw away their lives and that's not true. Also, by fanatical I don't believe any of the anti-gamers' lies. I'm not in the middle considering both sides because I know one is right and the other is wrong.

It seems to me also that sometimes you guys think that, in some cases, video games do cause violence. It seems to me that you guys haven't rejected the idea that images on a screen lead to violence entirely and that's why you think I'm a fanatic because I have rejected that argument entirely. That's why I think that violent video games are okay for everybody because I don't believe that they lead to, and inspire, violence. I think you partly agree with Jack Thompson sometimes.

I mean if you have rejected the idea that violent images lead to violence entirely, then why do you think that certain people shouldn't play violent video games? Obviously, you think that sometimes it does lead to violence. I think that's the difference between us is that I've said that these games don't ever cause violence and that theory is totally wrong and video games aren't to blame for anything. You guys seem to think that, for the most part, they don't, but sometimes they do.

@Daniel

Being a 180 of Jack Thompson is not a good thing. Being a fanatic of any kind is not good. It's makes gamers and the gaming industry as a whole look bad to outsiders. Don't you realize Jack's antics make him and the anti-gaming agenda look like a complete joke. I know you mean well and to be perfectly honest i like you because your opinions and my opinions are pretty much the same when it comes to this issue but your constant repeating of yourself again and again, your blown-out overtly long posts and totally missing the gist of other people's posts that you reply to is what the problem is. We don't need nor want anyone on the pro-gaming side of the fence to be a fanatical like Jack is for the anti-gaming side. It makes us look bad.

@Daniel:

You completely misinterpreted my comment, as I knew you would. To quote Iago from Aladdin: "I think I'm gonna have a heart attack, and DIE from that surprise!"

BTW, have you asked out Jotun yet?

... It proves nothing, other than the fact that the world is less violent. You cannot prove that games do not cause violence because there is less violence.

Jack thompson says that videogames change how you think and react. History has little to say on the subject of videogames, and there has never been a long term physiological study on the effects of videogames.

Daniel, you had a panic attack. That has nothing to do with the discussion on whether games desensitize or not.


All we have is a lack of evidence against us and a constitution. THERE IS NO CONCLUSIVE DATA ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. UNTIL SEVERAL LONG TERM STUDIES ARE DONE THERE WILL NOT BE DATA.

@ hayabusa75

You're right. I hate Jack Thompson and I'm the reverse of him. I'm like the extremist on the side of video games. I can't stop saying negative things about him because I hate his ideas, his antics and his lies. I know what you mean by top myself. Just as you think I can't get anyomre extreme, I do. I believe that violent video games are good and shouldn't be attacked because they're not harmful in any way, shape, or form. I totally reject the idea that these games are bad and influence people. Thanks for the compliment. You're basically saying that I'm like Jack Thompson in reverse and for that I say THANKS DUDE!!

@Daniel:

Oh...my...God...you know, in addition to what Brokenscope said before, I just thought of another way you're like Jack Thompson. You always manage to top yourself.

@ Jotun

I think you're comment is AWESOME. These politicians are TURDS and they're acting very childishly by not giving up when they know they've lost. They're such idiots for not giving up and they're idiots even more for listening to Jack Thompson. Only someone with an I.Q. of -88,000,000 would listen to Jack Thompson. He's a bum and, as I read one time on another site, he is a manchild. He never grew up and people are stupid enough to listen to him that's the scariest part. You post great comments. Keep it up.

@ Bigman-K

Are you saying that Joe Lieberman is a Jew? I knew he was against violent video games and heavy metal music and a close friend of Jack Thompson, but I didn't know it was for religious reasons. I'm not against the Jewish religion, but I didn't know that Joe Lieberman was attacking violent media for religious reasons.

@ Brokenscope

I called anti-game activists turds because that's what I think of them if that's what you were trying to say.

@ Brokenscope

My point is that America isn't nearly as violent as it once was. I can't believe you missed that. History proves that violence in America is in heavy decline. Before violent video games existed, America was a very violent place but not anymore. This proves that violent entertainment has nothing to do with real violence in real life. Violent video games mean a lot to me and they are being slandered by anti-game activists and I can't stand idly by when I know that they're totally innocent. History helps clear them and exhonerate them. However, anti-game activists wouldn't want to look at the overwhelming evidence against their lies because then they would have to find something else to whine about.

"Since when was a Joe a fundamentalist nut. He may have conservative leanings but calling him a religious nut is pushing it."

Well, he is an Orthodox Jew (equivilant to a Fundamentalist Christian), which might explain his hatred of pop culture media like violent video games/movies/music/T.V, ect.

.....
Daniel, once I got beyond reading that comment I still wasn't sure what your point was or what proof you were offering. FInd a point and back it up.

Since when was a Joe a fundamentalist nut. He may have conservative leanings but calling him a religious nut is pushing it.

@Daniel

Isn't stating that a tur... nevermind,

@ Brokenscope

In light of what you said, I guess extortion wasn't the right word to use. The right word is abusive demands. Go to Google.com and type in Jack Thompson's protest outside of Rockstar Games and you won't have to look for long before you find the list of abusive mean nasty demands of the protestors. Also where did Jack Thompson come off calling Penny Arcade a little extortion factory? What is Penny Arcade anyway? I've been to their website and I just can't figure it out. I know why Jack Thompson hates them, but I know they can't be a real arcade.

I know about him calling us pixelantes, but I went to a website one time where he was calling us thugs. He said, "Video gamer thugs." He also said that our frontal lobes are fried from playing violent video games. Also, I've read that he said one time, "You don't shoot people in the face unless you're a hitman or a video gamer." That's a direct quote and I take offense at that because I'm a video gamer. If you go visit the sites that I've visited, you'll know why I hate him very badly. Any self respecting gamer would, and should, hate him very badly. He is a pig. Go to those websites and then tell me that I'm wrong. Also, where can I get an "I Hate Jack Thompson" tee shirt?

So I have a question...what if a game DID have "serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors" but was also violent? Liiike...a first person Shakespeare hack'n'slash or a biology war sim.

....alright i'm just being cheeky but everyone already said everything. Same story, same responses. Poor Jack always gets insulted so much with each new story. Sure he asks for it but he's just a grumpy old man after all. I would say we should send him flowers to cheer him up but as I recall the last person who tried it didn't get that response.

@ hayabusa75

I don't have a mental illness. I keep insulting Jack Thompson because he attacks violent video games constantly and I hate him for trying to get them banned, but I'm not crazy and I'm defending innocent games from an evil madman. I don't think he should be shot, but I do think that he should be disbarred. As I've said before, I don't condone real violence in the real world and if I did, I'd be proving him right and that's the last thing I'd ever want to do.

Also, history disproves Jack Thompson's lies. When do you think America was more violent forty years ago during the Civil Rights Movement when the Ku Klux Klan was killing people for having dark skin or now when the Klan is dead and everybody's getting along? Also, forty years ago there were no video games and America was far more violent back then, so let's look closer at that. America was more violent before video games, but video games make people violent? That doesn't add up somehow. Currently, we are only a culture of death when it comes to entertainment. Also, my defending violent video games and liking violent entertainment and images on a screen is not a phase I'm going through. Everybody I know thinks it is and that's why I like it when you say that I'm the reverse of anti-game activists.

@ Bigman-K, Brokenscope and hayabusa75

I naver said that anti-game activists should be killed. If I were stupid enough to say that, I'd be proving them right. Also, when you tell me that I'm the exact reverse of Jack Thompson, I know you don't mean it as a compliment, but to me it is because I don't like anti-game activist ideas and, when you tell me that, I'm succeeding in coming across as opposite of those jerks. However, I don't think that anti-game activists should be shot or killed because those statements would prove them to be right.

I say what I believe and what I think it right. Jack Thompson, and others, like to say that we're a culture of death and historically, we are. Our history was begun through violence with the American Revolution then there was slavery throwing the indians off their land because of a ridiculous belief called manifest destiny and lots of racism. We definately have a very violent past. However, all that happened before violent video games ever existed and America today isn't nearly as violent as it was a few decades ago before violent video games came out. America is no longer a very violent country and violent video games have nothing to do with violence in the real world.

Thus, I know that these games don't make people violent and America is no longer a culture of death at least not as much as it once was. Also they say that these games desensytize people to things. That's CRAP and I know it because last year I had a small auto accident and I felt horrible about it even though no one was hurt. I felt very bad about myself I even felt like I was going to throw up and that was only a tiny accident with no significant damage. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that my games have done a lot for me and they are being slandered. If your close friend were being slandered and you knew it wasn't true wouldn't you defend him? That's what I'm trying to do with the games that have helped me out a lot.

@Bigman-K:

So what you're saying is we only have to put up with 4 more years of this? How comforting. =)

Seriously, I looked up Asberger Syndrome on Wiki and 90% of that stuff is right on target.

@Brokenscope:

Yes, I've found those to be quite enlightening. Stay tuned for a similarly dazzling lesson of my own on bartending (my job)...how to make a rum and coke!

I guess this is more of a Daniel vs. Jack Thompson discussion now.

Too bad. I was hoping to discuss the real meat of the video games in legislation issue.

Grahamr Says:
January 10th, 2007 at 11:22 am

Arrghhh!!!! Screw this copypasta legislation crap!!

In before Fresh Prince.

appeals to the morbid interest of minors in violence
is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the a town called Bel-Air. In west Philadelphia born and raised, on the playground was where I spent most of my days; chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool, and shooting some b'ball outside of the school. When a couple of guys who were up to no good started making trouble in my neighbourhood, I got in one little fight and my mom got scared. She said "You're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air"; and
does not have serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors.


Apologies to GP for spamming his comments with this crap.

You know, I've actually been thinking about these bills lately. They're a good idea, inasmuch as you wouldn't want your kids being able to buy the Faces of Death series or their video game equivilants. However, that's what good parenting is for.

"
appeals to the morbid interest of minors in violence
is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is suitable material for minors; and
does not have serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors."

Arrghhh!!!! Screw this copypasta legislation crap!!

To GoodRobotUs,

I agree with you, my friend. What does Jack know more about psychological terms and mental health. And the fact is, he knows nothing about psychology, because he never learnt psychology(no pun intended) at all! Even if he had learn, I bet he is daydreaming about killing video gamers instead of listening in psychology classes.

Do you want to know why our world is in trouble now? It's because of religious zealots like Jack Thompson, Joe Lieberman, Fundalmentalist Jihadists and all kinds of terrorism acts that caused the whole world to plunge into the darkness of hate, racism, discrimination and war.

That's why we people, must band together to fight anti-game people like Jack Thompson. People who cause trouble for this world don't deserve to live, after all.

And they have recessed into an infinte loop of words...

@GoodRobotUs

Until you've hit all 50 states. I haven't seen any serious attempt to revive a bill in a state where it was smacked down by the courts. Attempts where it failed to pass, or was pulled from committee, sure. And claims by politicians that they'll "keep trying" until a court allows it. But no-one's actually done it...
-- If your wiimote goes snicker-snack, check your wrist-strap...

I don't know, one goes down, another two pop up. It's kinda like playing constitutional whack-a-mole.

It would be interesting if GP cooked up an estimate on how much taxpayer money has been spent on failed VG legislation nationwide.

I know the politicians are doing this so they can look good to their constituents... I know the constituents are stupid enough to demand their taxpayer dollars are wasted on a feel-good-unconstitutional bill...

It's just sad, really, that they're so willing to throw the money away. This will be struck down like so many other bills as unconstitutional, and hundreds of thousands of dollars will go to waste once more, because people are stupid and don't want to think for themselves.

It'll be interesting to see how the next generation of anti-game bills turn out.

Second verse same as the first, difference is the AG in Utah probably won't try to defend the bill, as he's already working with the industry.

Y'know, I thought people were just trying to be ludicrous when they suggested JBT used the MSWord Find & Replace tool for his different law drafts.

Apparently, they were spot on.

I'm 24 now but i used to be alot like Daniel back when i was between 17 and 20. I used to say stupid things like "I wish Lieberman was killed" and "Anyone who believes violent video games cause violence should be shot" stuff like that. I was pretty fanatic back in the day.
 
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