March 23, 2007 -
According to Juarez newspaper El Diario (link is to imperfect Google translation), the governor of the Mexican state of Chihuahua has ordered the seizure of all copies of Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2.Gov. Jose Reyes Baeza Terraces apparently took the action following recent criticism of GRAW2 by Juarez Mayor Héctor Murguía Lardizábal, who called the game, which deals with battles between an elite U.S. force an Mexican rebels, "a crime against the intellectual capacity of Juarez residents." The Juarez mayor offered this blanket condemnation:
Violent video games instill values which are upside down, and these actions are despicable because they attempt to divide the good will of the residents of American and Mexican cities.
Protection of the border between the United States and Mexico is, of course, an extremely hot political topic these days.
UPDATE 3/27/07: More in the El Paso Times, including word that Gov. Terraces reached out to Texas Congressman Silvestre Reyes (D) for help with the GRAW2 issue. No word on how Reyes reacted to the Mexican request for assistance.
Comments
Sorry man, but most of the Americans I talk(ed) to (I'm actually half American myself) aren't all that aware of what the outside world has to offer. The difference is, what I stated is the truth. It's just in your culture, you're brought up to believe that the US is the unconditional best. Don't get me wrong. the US is a great place but it has an astronomical amount of problems at the moment.
Self-censorship is the worst kind of censorship & most western countries employ some sort of legislative censorship regime. The only difference with the US is that non-government bodies impose the censorship, instead. It really gets to me when people list Australia next to Germany & such because it's just simply BS. The UK, New Zealand & Canada etc. all have mandatory censorship & classification regimes. The UK regularly heavily censors films & hardcore titles. New Zealand has banned Manhunt, Postal2, Reservoir Dogs etc. The UK is notorious for censorship of movies but not so much games. Canada is probably the most Liberal out of the three, they don't really ban or censor games as far as I'm aware but in some provinces games carry legal restrictions.
The only problem with Australia is that no adult classification exists for games because one of the states ultra-conservative attorney generals won't agree to it. But it's not a HUGE deal. 99% of games get passed uncut with a 15+ classification in Australia, while some of those on other markets get passed with with an M17+ (US) or 18+ (UK) classification. The only movies banned in Australia are basically child porn, shots of real death (but not always) & some porn movies. Music isn't legally classified & only suicide promotion & terrorist books are banned. Things maybe regulated down under but stuff is very rarely banned. This whole "Australia is so censored" idea is greatly exaggerated by pro-gaming sites.
Here's another thing, mod chips & heavy console modifications are legal down there as well. As is prostitution, unlike in the USofA. So don't always be the first to jump up & preach how liberal the US is because it's no more free then any other Western country. Censorship is still censorship, regardless of who's is perpetuating it. Example: The game Indigo Prophecy was censored for the North America, for fear of backlash after the Hot Coffee incident. A directors cut, PC version of the game was eventually made available for download & was classified AO. The same game was released on consoles AND PC totally uncut in Australia with a 15+ classification.
Also, over there, they can say whatever they like on TV & show full frontal male-female nudity plus sex (Provided there's no penetration). On top of this, violence is just about everywhere on TV. You'd be surprised.
My point is, do just a little bit of research before you make such wild claims.
Calderon has nothing to do with this. Besides, if it were Obrador, he'd make an even bigger riot. You know he hated the United States with passion.
HA HA HAH HAH HA HA HA
(cough)
*roflcopter (forgive me my father)
Although I actually know a really cool guy that said he was from their, go figure.
So that leaves 70% that's pro-American? I'd say that's pretty good.
"Do you honestly think that argument holds up anymore? Do you know for a fact that I’ve only spoken with 100 max? No. You have absolutely no idea & it’s the most unoriginal, weak thing you could use."
I know for a fact you never spoke with 300 billion. In fact, I was thinking you spoke with much less than 100.
"It’s not a matter of stereotypes, it’s just the way most Americans are."
The english speaking world calls that "stereotyping". Congradulations, you contradicted yourself in one sentence.
"Ask some other non-Americans & they’ll give you the same answer. The problem is, you lot aren’t able to take the slightest bit of criticism either because you’ve been brought up to BELIEVE that you’re “perfect, free, democracy spreading hero’s”."
Again, you're stereotyping. You claim Americans can't take criticism when we take it on a daily basis, some of it by our own people. The difference is we don't send armed soldiers into town squares to neutralize protestors and we don't censor out other nations for their problems with us. By that knowledge, I'd say we do take criticism a lot better than other people, even if we're not perfect.
"Discussion over, you lose now be quiet. I’m not replying again."
That's something I usually read from JT, so I guess a nerve was struck on your end.
Anyway, I'm sorry about the OT-ness about this post, but I really don't have anything to say on the main topic that hasn't been said (ie, Juarez is a shithole, the governor is taking what he can for a show of force and so on).
It's not a matter of stereotypes, it's just the way most Americans are. Ask some other non-Americans & they'll give you the same answer. The problem is, you lot aren't able to take the slightest bit of criticism either because you've been brought up to BELIEVE that you're "perfect, free, democracy spreading hero's".
Ever wonder why 30% of the world is anti-American? There's a reason.
Discussion over, you lose now be quiet. I'm not replying again.
"... i have most of the Americans I talk(ed) to ... aren’t all that aware of what the outside world has to offer."
You are stereotyping more than 300 million people give or take a few million for the infants. And you probably are referring about talking to maybe 100 people Americans max so you are stereotyping around 300 million people with the knowledge of 100 Americans max.
You are a loser.
This is a tired old excuse that only dinosaurs use to justify their existance. I hope Ubisoft retaliates somehow. Maybe we should all have games where bright smiley people shoot hearts and rainbows at each other. Nobody dies and everybody wins, just like in the real world ;)
Here is a small list of games that have been banned around the world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_computer_and_video_games
Let me guess, you’re the same type of person who thinks Australia is a crappy 3rd world country were everybody rides kangaroos around?
As usual, Americans are totally oblivious & ignorant of anything outside of their borders.
I find it funny that you fail to see the irony in these statements.
Anyway yes some (ok most) stores don't carry Ao games (most Ao games are porn games anyway), and theaters don't show NC-17 films, (again most of them are porn) but that is just de facto cenosrship not de jure censorship. If i wanted to I could open up a store and sell NC-17 films and Ao games (and some people have already beaten me to it). Yes i know you can't show nudity on TV (unless you jump through a bunch of hoops) but at least we don't ban anything.
Seriously this is pretty wild stuff. Video games are currently one of the most dynamic (if not THE most dynamic) forms of fiction available and it's going to be a sad thing if other governments and smaller but equally powerful organizations follow this lead.
Geez it's a game. No actual Mexican rebels were harmed in the production I'm sure.
Take a trip down there & see for yourself. They're far for liberal then most countries and if you think that censorship in non-existent in the states then you're even dumber then I thought. A huge legislative censorship regime may not exist as it does in most countries, but the sheer amount of self-censorship throughout the US is rediculeous. I mean stores REFUSE to stock AO games, theaters REFUSE to screen NC-17 films, you can't say the C word or show nudity or TV, you can't do this, you can't do that blah blah. That kind of garbage doesn't exist in most Western nations. No offense, but the US is easily the most prudish Western nation in the world.
Let me guess, you're the same type of person who thinks Australia is a crappy 3rd world country were everybody rides kangaroos around? Yeah thought so. Maybe you should mention countries such as Singapore & China were REAL censorship is rife.
As usual, Americans are totally oblivious & ignorant of anything outside of their borders.
Yes i do, unfortunately us U.S. citizens can do very little about the gaming censorship in Australia, Germany and Mexico, sure we could e-mail the citizens but why should they listen to foreigners when deciding local policy (I mean if you were a state senator would you really care what a bunch of random people in say Egypt thought of how you should run the state?) Yes we can protest the censorship of games here in the U.S. but because of our 1st amendment and great judicial system our protest calls won't be needed anytime soon (I hope).
The reaction is ridiculous and it's not as if this game is going to give Juarez a bad name. I mean, the rape, mutilation, and murder of over 400 women since 1993 does that. Shows you just how concerned the government there is about the situation when they're banning a videogame instead of going after the corrupt cops and the druglords that run things.
Of course, even here in the US, we can't do anything about the Mexican druglords. I live in a place far, far from the border and the cartels have had three attorneys murdered that were involved with prosecution on a big drug bust involving some of our corrupt US cops.
The ones complaining about the games are the politicians who can't do their job, nationalists that think that any foreign reference to our country will be a bad one (regardless of it's intentions), or exaggerative media that worries more about it's ratings rather than the veracity of the information they provide (TV Azteca. You'll be able to compare this news program with Fox News). Our constitution also prohibits the banning of games, and the man that's saying he will prevent the distribution of the games is practically emulating Brenando Batiz (of Mexico City) -- In the end, nothing was done and the whole matter was forgotten.
It might concern me that GRAW, GRAW 2, and Rainbow Six: Las Vegas, all had mexican terrorists, but Ubisoft's probably running out of viable enemies that won't cause much controversy. Even though now they'll probably have to find new ones.
Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if he moaned about banning the game because he had a druglord pointing a gun at his head.
Oh crap looks like Germany has some competition.
Taken fron the cities Wiki: "Juárez has gained further notoriety as a major center of narcotics trafficking linked to the powerful Juárez Cartel, and for hundreds of unsolved murders of young women since 1993. Unfortunately, because of widely alleged police complicity (and perhaps even participation on the part of police and government officials and local elites), the serial murders continue and most of them remain "unsolved" despite the years that have gone by"
Sounds like such a lovely place!
Between this and the nonsense of the Mexican government bitching about OUR immigration policy, Mexico needs a big dose of STFU right now.
Except that the player is supporting the current government of Mexico by stopping Mexican Rebels. Next time please make a comparison that makes some type of sense.
Taking away a game is pretty stupid, but then again i've seen protests against pokemon, harry potter, simpsons, any movie that has something against catholics so i hate to say it doesn't even surprise me.
(yeah, im mexican)
"I guess we can just add Mexico to the “free nation that is not really free” list along with Austrailia and Germany. "
Actually that list is a bit longer, but you probably didn't have enough time to list all 192 (?) countries, including the US, since pretty much all nations claim freedom but don't really offer it. It is a shame what is going on in Australia and Germany though, since these are allies of ours and have many of the same basic values. Hopefully they will see they are wrong and that they are hurting the economy. What I think might be more likely, however, at least in the short term, is that the US follows their pro-censorship lead.
Jokes aside, I have a bias viewpoint as a developer. No matter what game I'm working on or have released, I would be pretty pissed to see it get banned or confiscated. I can handle bad reviews, criticism, and crazy Miami lawyers spewing lies about my IP.
However, should a person or collection of people decide to deny others the ability to experience something I've worked on based on their own provincial opinions. . .well, they might as well cut out my tongue because they are blocking my "voice."
If i was an American i wouldn't be happy about the game BUT as a staunch defender of Free Speech i do not believe it should be restricted, censored or banned. The proper way of dealing with potentically negative speech isn't government regulations or restrictions/banning/censorship BUT putting even more speech out there such as counter speech.