@Brent-

It does sound like more of an opinion survey than a thorough scientific study, but they're not using it to push an agenda. That's why I can't comprehend the furor. I haven't read the study yet as their website doesn't seem to have any mention of it, where it can be found, or even if it's yet to be published and until I do I can't dismiss it as a survey rather than an actual study. Even then, taking into account studies done on the prevalance of alienation in technologically-advanced Asian nations such as Japan, it doesn't sound far-fetched at all and the whole "ZOMG they're blaming video games for all the world's problems" reaction by some seems completely unfounded.

@Brent-

Save the Children does have an unfortunate name but they're far different from similar-sounding organizations like the American Family Association or their ilk. Their primary involvement tends to be in decreasing mortality rates and increasing educational/healthcare funding among children in 3rd-world and war-torn countries. Stephen Colbert of all people raises funds for them.

who is hal halpin to critique this research? now without seeing the research myself, i can't comment on its validity, but still, mr halpin is not qualified to reject this research- especially without backing up his comments. anecdotal evidence cannot be used to refute the findings of a properly conducted survey. again though, without seeing this research i cannot comment on its validity. i do know that most of the research i have read (and there isn't much out there on this topic) generally finds that video games have little to no net impact on how much time individuals spend socializing with others.

@ AbsumZer0

I agree that some people tend to react defensively any time they perceive an attack upon their hobbies/beliefs/etc., and though I think you're right that that may be happening here to some degree, the arguments against this study are valid.

Claiming that electronic media--which is to say games, chat, the Web--are responsible to breeding a generation of socially-impaired kids is, I think, irresponsible. Take a typical worst case scenario: a kid who's been raised on videogames, who seems incapable of interacting with anyone, let alone other children, except via instant messaging or in-game chat. Is the "electronic lifestyle" to blame?

That's too easy--and ineffective--an answer. The real response should be: the parents. The teachers. Anyone and everyone who allowed this child to be raised without regular exposure to living, breathing people. Allowing a child to become accustomed, and reliant upon, a television or computer monitor as his window to the world is not the fault of anyone but those responsible for that child's well being.

This is the point I'm trying to make: people who are either too stupid, too lazy, or too cowardly to point the finger at the responsible parties always blame what's easy. That is why we need someone vocal to defend not just games, but the blooming electronic culture, from those looking for a convenient scapegoat.

I agree that kids shouldn't spend all their time playing WoW. But if they do, is it really WoW's fault?

[...] Game Politics ran an article about a study from Save the Children which indicates video games and modern culture as a source of socialization problems in children.  The good thing about this whole issue is that intelligent people like Hal Hapin, the president of the Entertainment Consumers Association, have come out to speak about it.  In an interview with IGN, Halpin states that: This is another example of real world anecdotal evidence consistently flying in the face of pseudo-research. If that’s the case here, I’ve seen my son play DS with his cousins just as I’ve seen my daughter play hop-scotch with friends. Both sets of kids were having fun and communicating. Both were interacting and being social. One could even argue that the DS group was doing so in multiple channels more than the physical-only crowd. Hearing about social isolation stories makes me wonder where the parent — or in this case, perhaps the parent and the teacher — has failed the child, not how the technology or media choices that he/she uses to pass their clearly lonely time has made them so… I’m sure pointing fingers and laying blame elsewhere makes some adults feel better, but it just isn’t reality. [...]

I think a lot of people are failing to realize the wide berth between 'socializing' in the sense of person-to-person, face-to-face interaction and 'socializing' in the sense of long-distance technologically enabled interaction. When you're socializing with people in real life you practice skills like expressing yourself verbally, making eye contact, reading other's faces and body language, settling disputes peacefully (without logging-off), etc. You don't get that practice in video games, cell phones, IM messengers, or the like. You also don't get the physical interaction... the hugging, hand-holding, cuddling... all the things you're supposed to be interested in doing after you hit puberty. To think you do is like thinking you'll become a better lover through phone sex or playing Second Life.

It may not be that important to us, but younger generations who go home and spend more and more time playing WoW with their friends, who are doing the same, instead of going out dancing, playing sports, Dungeons and Dragons, or even hanging-out and playing 2-player console games like we did at their age are going to feel the effects. It's going to be harder for them to get and keep their first-time job if they mumble, forget to smile, or can't even engage in verbal small-talk with strangers because they never had to practice.

I don't mean this as a technophobic rant, but I think in this case it's a knee-jerk 'how dare they talk about video games as if there's a negative side!' reaction as opposed to a thoughtful consideration of the potential sociological implications of the increased use of not just MMORPGs, but all technology enabling long-distance socialization.

The internet, for me, has been an invaluble tool in my hobby as an amateur photographer/phototoucher. I have had comments on my work from people in Canada, Chile, in Spain, in South Africa, in Brazil, and in countless locations all over the U.S., all thanks to dA and the internet. Imagine that. I also discuss my favorite music on their forum.

One online friend informed me that my favorite band, Porcupine Tree (who, ironically, just released Fear of a Blank Planet, a concept album about today's youth getting burnt out on sex, technology, and prescription drugs) was going to be touring in the US, and linked me to the ticketmaster page. So now I'm going to be surrounded by people who share my love for a relatively obscure prog rock band from the UK, possibly forging more friendships.

What a wonderful (e-)world.

@ Luke: Don't take the teacher bashing too personally, it's more anger that people are jumping to conclusions about 'Geeks' as usual, though I'm not sure jumping to conclusions about them in return is really the correct response, but it is, unfortunately, a natural one.

"Socially Isolating", huh?

Guess we better start burning books, after all, reading's even more solitary than games.

"This research is showing that use of Internet chatrooms, mobile phone games and that kind of technology is making it harder for children to interact with each other."

No, it shows that teachers THINK THAT.

Socially isolating my ass. Ive met many people around the world through gaming. Whats better than discussing politics with a Gaming buddy from a different country and being able to "kill" each other while you do it! I rarely play solo games for any great length of time anymore. Through gaming I've resolved social phobias and issues I had. It seems some people like to bash games with anything they can find even if it's not true which it usually isn't.

I agree with the general consensus around here. If it wasn't for the internet I would more than likely lose touch with the many friends I've made in real life through college that live much farther away from me. Also being able to talk to people from all over the world can give you a stronger understanding of different cultures, events going on there.

I would much rather talk to people through the MMO's I play and have intellectual conversations with the friends I make, rather than going to the local parties where everyone gets drunk and rather stupid if I may add.

I feel bad actually for Hal Halpin. If you had to deal with all these people like JT, the bashing by the press, short sighted studies, etc. day after day, then I can see why he might be kind of angry, especially since the majority of the media will not listen to him, and continue their bashing. I would of probably went crazy so I wager his patience must be really great.

If anyone think video games isolate people from society, that is flat evidence that they are isolated from the media. PC games and MMORPGs have been encouraging people to work together and compete against each other to accomplish their goals for years.

In the last few years, console systems have gotten in on the action and have greatly increased the popularity on online play. All the modern systems allow online play. This mostly manifests itself in First Person Shooters, but given time may expand to other games. This doesn't just encourage but requires teamwork to succeed in the game. People who come off as pushy, obnoxious, or just as a flat ass can be blocked from play. Conversely, helpful, friendly people who are fun to play with can be added to a friend-list and invited to play. This means good social skills (and gaming skills) are a must if you want play with anyone.

@ Dave

Yes, there are different types of games that parents need to be aware of. They also need to be aware of what kind of games their children is mature enough to play. The ESRB ratings are a good springboard, but ultimately, for better or worse, it is up to the parent. They control the full environment of their offspring. Who bought the game for them after all?

@ GoodRobotUs

I sympathise with the kid. Nothing worse than losing more than an hour of playtime due to power outage or unforeseen death. Fortunately, my mother always allowed me a few minutes to find a save point, before she would make me do something.

@ Nightwng2000

I've always found your posts well thought-out and written with excellent points. If nothing else, you definitely shine online.

These days, "isolation" isn't as isolated as one might initially think.

Growing up in the '70s and early '80s, I had friends I hung around with. But I still had problems speaking and confidence problems. In some ways, I was an isolationist. Constantly verbally/mentally abused because I had difficulty speaking, pushed into situations, by adults, where I would futher self-isolate myself (as opposed to doing what some kids would do, rising to the challenge). And that path made things worse for how I was to be treated, and preceived that treatment, by other kids and authority figures.

When I discovered pen pals, I was able to open up vastly. Everything was written, and I could correct myself without looking horribly stupid. The few embarrasing phone calls I made/received from pen pals were few and far enough between to not be worried about much.

Then, online communication in the form ob BBSes, Online Services, chatrooms, and more came about. Dear God, a massive world to communicate with where I didn't sound stupid (only looked stupid :) ).

I've communicated with people all around the world. Even people locally. And thanks to boards and even email, I can better communicate with local friends because I don't have to worry about stumbling my thoughts into vocal sounds.

Do I communicate in games? Only in typed chat, not over a microphone. I haven't even unwrapped the mic that came with my XBox 360. I just wish I could get a keyboard for it.

I'd also like to point out that there are plenty of events where the schools authority figures are doing everything they can to isolate kids also. Teachers who ignore verbal, mental, physical, even sexual abuse against some students because those students are "different" in some way.
School officials who alienate select groups of students by referring to them with hate speech (remember the school official who referred to certain students as "faggots"?).
Schools that bring in computers for kids to learn most, if not all, of their subjects from, preventing interaction between students and between teacher and students.
Schools trying to prevent kids form communicating with one another on blogs, for whatever reason given.
Schools that ban certain events (sports, social, etc) for whatever reason to prevent kids from getting together with other kids who have something in common.

And many other situations.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

Heh, I'm one of the crusty holdouts whose pc-centric worldview and anti-MMO prejudices keeps me out of an awful lot of multiplayer gaming these days (since FPS deathmatch got old about the time Marathon Infinity came out), but I CLEARLY remember at least two of my childhood friends playing nintendo with me, and two more playing PC games. That's how I learned the Konami Code (beating Contra with a friend in his living room), and stopped getting eaten by a Grue in Zork. And what's more, we were able to spend some time playing games...then go outside and play, too.

People have made really good points so far. I was just going to add that I think it's important for parents to recognize the different kinds of gaming. When I was growing up, my parents always had the attitude that a game was a game - no distinctions. Contemporary parents need to be aware of what games are social and what games aren't, and know how much time their kids are putting into them.

And there's no doubt in my mind that some games do have social benefits. I've seen more than one situation where friendships formed between various groups because of gaming that wouldn't have been otherwise. As one person said, the subject of mutually played games can serve as a great ice breaker for deeper, more meaningful friendships.

I agree with Hal with this one.. though his piont comes off really harsh, but I agree with the harshness of it. Generally, parents and teacher would blame video games, cellphone, and the internet for social problem.. instead of leaning towards the fact there "is" a problem and technology is how some people cope with it.

But this is coming from someone who's mother was going to get rid of the internet while I was a teenager. Sure, there was a problem.. but gettign rid of the technology isn't going to fix anything.

But hey.. we live in a time when parents are a bit disconnected from their children

I hope this era of blaming video games will pass. We blame video games for killing and violence and this poll blames video games for isolating.

Who is with me on blaming video games for starvation and the lack of sleep?

For young people with communication or confidence problems, often the 'safety' of the Web and other Digital devices, the ability to leave at any time you don't feel comfortable, is an invaluable tool. I know this because it worked for me.

I used to suffer from a terrible lack of confidence, for several reasons, I was constantly doubting my own views and opinions, and was fast becoming a recluse from society about 5-6 years ago because of it. I think if it hadn't been for the ability to communicate and intereact with peope in this environment then I would have continued sinking. The Internet, allowed me to debate, poke fun at myself or simply sound off my problems to people who didn't give a damn, which is probably the most theraputic treatment in the world. Theres nothing like talking to a Serbian who grew up in Bosnia during the War to make you realise there are bigger problems in the world than your own.

So yes, this research is complete Baloney. It is not the job of Computer to teach communication skills to children, that is the role of the teachers and the family. Listen to a child speak, you will constantly hear and see mannerisms from the parents. Why do the people who wrote this report think that is?

These reports always assume that there is no choice, that once the child is in front of the computer, the parent is somehow powerless over them. It's bullshit of the highest order, whilst the child lives under your roof, they live by your rules, it's cliched, but that's because it's true.

As South Park once put it, some Parents expect the Media to be some kind of Baby-sitter/Teacher/Social worker, and then complain when they suddenly realise they haven't been keeping an eye on their own children. When you sit down and think about that, it's utterly ridiculous. It's not like the tools aren't available, it's just apathy on the part of lazy parents first, and then finger pointing once their apathy has been discovered.

Thank you GoodRobotUs for making my point far better than I did...

"For young people with communication or confidence problems, often the ’safety’ of the Web and other Digital devices, the ability to leave at any time you don’t feel comfortable, is an invaluable tool. I know this because it worked for me."

...but by the yardstick of face to face social interaction the ability to deal with uncomfortable situations, to charm, flatter, and persuade those around you, are hallmarks of good communication.

It's all well and good being an eloquent communicator, when you know you can walk way from/ignore anything you don't like... but real life doesn't always give you that option.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with socialising on the internet ect, it's just I don't think it is a substitute for face to face interaction, and I think that is the point that this 'study' was trying to make.

Indeed, to 'live' on the Internet and never to take those skills outside is almost as bad as not communicating at all, but my problem with this report is that it gives the appearance that this is being encouraged by the act of using the computer.

There's nothing wrong with communicating on the Internet, just like there's nothing wrong with shooting guns for fun, going fishing, collecting Star Wars miniatures or playing Grand Theft Auto. But when someone starts to show an obsessive urge toward anything that involves keeping away from other people, then is the time to worry, you don't need to look for flags like 'Computer Games' or 'Guns', merely 'Obsessive/Compulsive behaviour', and it hits people at any age, less than a week after the Virginia Tech shootings, a 50 year old man shot 4 people in a Supermarket parking lot, but because this person obviously wasn't a teen and had never played a computer game in his life, the Media weren't all that interested in him.

Basically, you only have to look at the Manson family to see what happens when you allow obsessive/compulsive behaviour disorder to take a grip.

I think Halpin has jumped needlessly into this one... seems to me like the Save the Children 'study' is pointing the finger at alternative communication methods like texting and internet chatrooms.

If for one can see how communicating by text and chatroom is sufficiently different from communicating face to face, that children may find the later more difficult.

Meh.

I would say that althought communicating with people online and playing with them online (among other things *wink wink nudge nudge*) is fun and social, doing this in realtime face to face with real life flesh and blood people is MORE fun and MORE social.

But it certainly not isolating. Online you can have friends when in real life you don't have good social contacts (Because reallife assholes can't be banned).

Thus the real thing is extreme in both directions, it is more social as it is more isolating depending per person. Online it is LESS social, but also LESS isolating.

I took the liberty of emailing Lorna Redden in relation to the Telegraph article. This was her response:

Dear Dave

Thanks for your email.

I think my quote was taken out of context as I was simply stating the results of the survey and voicing the concerns of the teachers we interviewed.

Best wishes
Lorna

-----Original Message-----
From: dave hammill [mailto:davehammill@yahoo.ie]
Sent: 05 May 2007 17:04
To: l.redden@savethechildren.org.uk
Subject: Telegraph Article


Hello Lorna.

I have been compelled to write to you in relation to the article, 'Modern life has turned children into loners,' which I recently read online. I have to say that I would strongly disagree with some of the points raised in the article, and in particular, the following statement; "Lorna Redden, the charity's schools development manager, said: "Children have always played alone, for example with dolls or train sets, but these activities required a certain level of imagination - they stimulated their brains. That is not the case with modern computer games which do children's thinking for them and put them in their own little world."

I suggest you perform some proper research into the area of electronic entertainment before making such a sweeping generalisation such as that above. To say that computer games do children's thinking for them shows how misinformed you are regarding this popular form of media. Not only has research shown that the opposite is in fact true, but also it has been shown that certain videogames can be beneficial, not only to children, but to people of all ages, in terms of problem-solving and the social benefits which come from competitive and co-operative play. And certainly, at the very least, video games can be considered much more engaging and stimulating than a passive experience, such as watching television.

May I point you in the direction of the bbfc's recent report, which looks to improve understanding of videogames: http://www.bbfc.co.uk/downloads/pub/Policy%20and%20Research/BBFC%20Video...

It's in pdf format.

Similar concerns were levelled at novels during the 18th century by critics worried about the impact of a new medium on young people. Today the idea that novels can harm people sounds daft. And that is surely how history will judge modern criticism of videogames.

I wish you, and your organisation, every success in tackling social problems in schools, but such scapegoating undermines the seriousness of the real socio-economic factors responsible for such behaviour in young people.

Regards,

Dave.