June 6, 2007 -
Is Manhunt 2 worse on the Wii? GamePolitics has confirmed via multiple sources that Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum (R) has expressed concern over the impending release of Rockstar's controversial game on Nintendo's next-gen console.
For McCollum, the issue seems to be the use of the Wii's motion-sensitive controller. It is widely anticipated that players will be required to simulate slashing, stabbing or clubbing motions in order to play Manhunt 2 on Nintendo's popular system.
McCollum apparently said as much in an on-camera interview Monday with Fox News reporter Orlando Salinas. The interview hasn't aired so far. It was originally slated to run this evening, but late yesterday Salinas told GamePolitics he thought it might run closer to Manhunt 2's July 9th release date.
Among those interviewed by Salinas for the report was anti-game attorney Jack Thompson, who has been beating the drum about Manhunt 2 - and especially the Wii version - for several weeks. A Thompson letter sent to both McCollum and Florida Governor Charlie Crist (R) on May 12th read in part:
Florida retailers are scheduled to sell a very violent video game called Manhunt 2 which will be available, remarkably, for “play” on the kids-friendly Nintendo Wii gaming platform.
The Wii device does not utilize traditional push button game controllers but instead utilizes hand-held motion capture devices... It is a training device.
Despite several calls to his office, it remains unclear whether or not Gov. Crist will take a position on Manhunt 2. However, it would appear that Jack Thompson has gotten the Florida Attorney General's attention.
According to our sources, A.G. McCollum is not focusing at all on the PS2 or PSP versions of the game. Instead, McCollum is looking into the Wii version due to its motion-controlled simulation of violence. "That's where they're kicking up their heels," one source said.
In February of this year GamePolitics asked Nintendo officials if they were concerned about potential backlash over Manhunt 2's appearance on the Wii. Beth Llewelyn, Sr. Director of Corporate Communications told GP at the time:
Manhunt 2 is not developed or published by Nintendo. It is one of many titles released by third party publishers for our system that appeal to people of all ages and interests. Just as with movies, television, and books, different video games appeal to - and are appropriate for - different audiences.
A knowledgable video game industry source has told GamePolitics that Nintendo actively pursued a Wii version of Manhunt 2.
[Nintendo exec] Reggie [Fils-Aime] spent a fair amount of time soliciting [former Take Two CEO] Paul Eibeler to get the game on the Wii… Reggie did it to introduce more M-rated content, as he was afraid too many people would pigeon-hole [the Wii] as a kid machine.
It is unknown what - if any - official action A.G. McCollum might take. Florida has no video game law on the books and Manhunt 2, violent though it may be, would appear to enjoy the same constitutional protections afforded to other games.
For his part, Thompson has urged Gov. Crist and Attorney General McCollum to have Manhunt 2 declared a public nuisance under Florida law. But the anti-game attorney tried - and failed - with that legal gambit in his 2006 bid to block distribution of another Rockstar game, Bully.
UPDATE: GP has received the following comment from A.G. McCollum's Press Secretary:
Attorney General Bill McCollum is concerned about any games which may instill violence in children, particularly games that encourage children to engage in violent behavior, even in simulation. He believes it is important to help protect children from influences which may introduce violence into their lives and stresses the importance of parental involvement in the efforts to keep these influences out of our homes and away from our families.
Comments
Truer words never spoken, thank you Nintendo, although anyone i nthis debate will cover their ears and go "LALALALAL"
"Secondly… Jack wants this game declared a public nuisance… isn’t he kinda… banned from doing that, due to the terms of his settlement?"
It seems Jack wants to use the AG as his own personal blowhorn to get the games banned, otherwise he wouldn't be encouraging them to do it and would be actively doing it himself.
On another note, I salute the AG for at least trying to take a good look before crying wolf.
If nintendo wants to make games that make a very good (If a bit gruesome) use of the motion sensitive controllers, that's there perogative. There's no evidence that this is going to warp the minds of children, and frankly I doubt any of them are going to lose so much touch with reality as to use this as "training" as our dear massacre chaser would suggest. There are nuts out there, but what JT doesn't seem to get is that 99.9999% of the gaming public are perfectly sane.
- Manhunt is not for kids, but kids pretending to do violent things is hardly new.
I saw a movie once in which an actor chopped through a wooden bathroom door with a fire axe while pretending to hunt his fake wife.
- Adults pretending to being (very graphically) violent is hardly new.
1st off when the fuck did nintendo say the wii was a kids console they clearly stated it was to be a mass appeal console appealing to every1 from everytype of gamer from kids to adults
thats why they have games that run from wii sports to medal of honor to resident evil and to more grusome games like manhunt 2 wii wasnt meant for a child or just adults it was meant to be played by everyone and anyone who found it interstine to play
"Look if they dont want kids playing this then the stores wont sell it to them, if parents dont want kids playing this then they wont buy it.
Also so what if nintendo called rockstar to produce more m rated content they have every right to do so this is busy if nintendo whats they console to sell to every consumer then it needs every type of game that appeals to every1.
anyways what would kids see in this when my little cousin (whos only 6) plays grand theft auto 3 and he goes kill some1 he never thinks of it as a kill or says anything negative about he usaully just says i stopped the mad man but all he likes to do in GTA3 is just drive the cars thats it in manhunt i think he would be to scared to play it just like he doesnt like playing resident evil. manhunt may simulate actions but its a new way to play for consumers who buy this game. My point is that nintendo can establish any games on there console what ever they see fit and they have every right to not establish any game thats not right in there eyes and manhunt is a game nintendo is letting rockstar produce on there wii console.
VIVA LA REVOLUTION! lol just wanted to say that!
But like with cases involving slander/libel, it wouldn't surprise me if taking action on this is NOT worth it or it is a sure win case....
"what about the children,help the children,save the children.You know what i say F*** the children"
But..but..Jack? Now they are murder simulators? I thought all a murder simulator needs is a mouse and a keyboard...or a vibrating controller for consoles. So instead of a murder simulator..it's a ..murder simulator now?
To that I say HBO shows porn on the kid friendly watchable TV
Actually, there are tools now that make implementing motion-sensitive controls as easy as swinging the remote a certain way and recording that movement registration to the computer.
Still, you're right about general programming differences.
Still, (RI)PSP software sells terribly. Wii Manhunt 2 should easily outsell the PSP version.
In other words, "I want to appear to be against it without opening myself up to First Amendment criticism."
"It is widely anticipated that players will be required to simulate slashing, stabbing or clubbing motions in order to play Manhunt 2 on Nintendo’s popular system."
In an article in the June issue of GameInformer
"If you want to use your knife, you can slash the remote"
There are other M rated games for the wii, and there will be more. This game is just getting picked on b/c it's from T2. If I can learn to kill by playing Manhunt, I should be a world champion boxer because I played Wii Sports.
^^^
the GameInformer article was about Resident Evil 4
I highly urge other residents of Florida to get active and do the same. With the upcoming hurricane season, tax payer money should be spent on the important stuff and not be held out for legislation and possible payouts to lawsuits.
Maybe ...who knows.. if they release this games parents would actually get the point that when ESRB say MATURE it means MATURE, young adults!!!!!
i`m 27 yo, i`m been playing this type of games since i`m around 18. And i`m doing fine, have friend, whom i don`t think i should kill or torture. I have a carrier, graduated with high scores from med school. And my fav games are SH, RE and CV... or maybe i did not understood the game, i did not notice that after my free time was done, i was suppose to go a do something really bad/psycho instead of going back to my classes or have fun with my friends.
Or maybe my parents did it all wrong, and they were suppose to not read the ESRB and buy those games for me when i was a child, and stay away from Mario.
OK.. i was been sarcastic.(needed that), now:
1. You don`t want kids to be playing this?? Read the ESBR.
2. You don`t want your teenager to become a delinquent, you want him/her to have friends and be social, to do something with her/his life, to have goals: Teach him/her some principles, so that when they go out into the world they would be able to buy games, watch horror movies, see some guy selling a "easy" way to live without start thinking that that is the way to go.
the rules/restrictions of what game should your kids play are out there, is YOUR job to make these are follow.
3. About adults, or young adults. Do you think that if a adult play this games would decide to quit his/her job and would become a serial killer?? Do you think they would start hitting there wife, stabbing there husband??? Because honestly i don`t.
FACTS are once again being ignored. The Wii is not designed to prepare an individual to use weapons or even their own hands as weapons. The Wii controllers do not weigh the same as baseball bats or even pipes. The Wii controllers are not designed as gloves to allow the more direct simulation of hand to hand. (There is actually a coin-op video game of boxing where the "controllers" are boxing gloves. That game is far more designed (and a wonderful exercise) to train a form of hand to hand combat.)
The Wii controllers do not react to the resistance of a strike against an individual. Even if they vibrate, that isn't the same as striking an object or person. (Remember the first Superman movie? "Bad vibrations?")
The Wii controllers are no more training tools than a PS2 controller is a training tool to fire an AK-47. Where's the X button on an AK-47 or any gun?
The FACT is that the claims that the Wii controller are training tools for anything is nothing more than misinformation to dictate a personal, religious, and/or political agenda against other individuals and/or Parents.
Want another example? Take someone who has never played baseball or held a baseball bat. Let them play baseball on the Wii until they are hitting home runs every time.
Now take them to a baseball park, hand them a baseball bat, and let's see how many homeruns they hit without practicing first.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
But it terms of Manhunt situation... could be worse. It seems the only think worse than violence is sex, and the only thing worse than that is violent sex on drugs. I don't think there will be any Wii sex games.(though I think it is actually a good idea) But then again I've been wrong before.
Hey guys! I have a wonderful idea. Lets all write to our government officials and say we wont vote for them unless they start to stand up for the game industry. Then we can give money to the IGDA so they can better defend the game industry. (not to mention they have some good benefits for donating) How about it anyone in? How about you gamepolitics.com How many concerned letters are you sending out to government officials?
I praise you, oy. I praise you *pats on the head*. Now just don't do what one of those characters did as a reaction in When They Cry, oy. :3
As an example, I've been playing FlatOut 2 today, a very fast paced racing game with lots of crashes and explosions etc, not to mention the 'ragdoll' games. However, I'm not normally a big player of racing or shooting games, I'm more into strategy and city-building etc, however, there is a theraputic element to being able to virtually race around a track, but the fun of it is the fact that it is something you CAN'T do in real life, that is what Fantasy is all about, if you knew you could do it in real life, why are you paying a company money for a 'simulation'?
It's kind of like saying that Charles Addams is responsible for every single rail collision since the 1930's because he invented Gomez Addams.
Nintendo is probably glad that they made this desition now. When there is something some part of the government dislikes, people flock to it. GTA would be unknown nowdays if it wernt for the free plubicity. For this, I thank Jack Thompson for giving us Grand Theft Auto.
That's true. There's dozens of ultra-violent series that JT either doesn't know about or acknowledge because they're not Take-Two's...Condemned, Prey, Black, Resistance: Fall of Man, that Vietnam game game and hundreds more.
One thing I am happy about is that the honorable attorney general in this case is stressing the need for parental involvement. It's the traditional Republican tagline, but I hope he means it.
Then i asked her about the whole heavy metal thing back in the day. She had the same problems that us gamers are having now. So, i think in the next year or so this will blow over just like it did decades ago. Maybe...
Violent video games thus far have not been a leading factor in school shootings and the like. Politicians fail to care/understand that most of these killers are like this before they even pick up the controller or hold a mouse.
Parental ignorance and lack of responsibility still holds game rep by the balls unfortunately.
I guess i'm just a pussy then.
*thumbs up*
Graphics are horrible compared to other consoles, but it is so much more interactive when you grab someone by the collar, slap him in the face a few times, choke him, then throw him into a wall. It's more... FUN.
It's also pretty neat how you open doors and honk the horn in cars.
Interactive controls are the future of gaming, and stupid neo-luddites who don't like it, can just not buy it. There is no reason to censor technology just because it represents a new way to entertain ourselves.
I seriously hope that when retinal displays and thought controls come along in 20 years, we aren't as closed-minded as today's grey-haired technophobes.
it is a video game once again, and all video games arent for little kids. Since it is rated mature and usually costs around fifty dollars when the games are released, there should be no intentions whatsoever of young kids getting a hold of these games. UNLESSSS their wacked out parents who buy them everything and spoil them decide to buy the game for them. The problem is raising awareness to parents so that they can do their job and watch out for their kids. It is not the job of the judicial system or anybody else in fact to deal with violence in video games and have it prohibited as a whole.
So grow the fuck up and put on some daddy pants, this is just the beginning of violence in video games.
He basically admits that he was talking bollocks about the 'push button thing', it's like saying 'Ah, but I was only making it up until this game came out....'
Like a kid couldn't figure out a way to choke a person without video games? Or swing something? Thompson has no intelligence or abstract thinking.
No, they're not. Less than 10% are rated M.
make a person feel alot better because that person would actually feel
more like they are getting revenge on the person that was mean to them
without hurting that person themself compared to just simply pressing
buttons which would not have as much of a good feeling impact like moving
the wii controller as if you are doing the killing. I feel that this new feature
might lessen the violence when the angry person says hey I should just
take my anger out by playing manhunt 2 on the nintendo wii until I feel
alright. I believe that if politicians take our right to just simply play a game
by which we are not doing anything harmful to a person then this is not the
real free America that the ammendment says. I believe that now after
reading this the parents and politicians can stop the nonsense of taking
away our freedom to just simply play a video game in our own home and
use all that free time to go against issues like child abuse.
Parents against violent video games are just looking for other people to blame for their own incapacity to teach their children the proper values of life, and remove the responsibility from their own hands to ensure their child is not mentally skewed.
The wii controls hardly resemble reality and are only there to create an extra element for the gaming community. It requires an additional level of thought, as opposed to button mashing it also requires hand movements.
If you have ever played a wii, you know that the sensor never responds to exactly what your hand is doing.
The bottom line is this, If you can not control the media you want your child to see, then you should make sure to clarify the difference between fiction and non fiction. Regardless what you say, Games are an art, and an expression. Denying Rockstar their right to create mature rated games, is the same thing as denying all adults the right to curse. The fact that this is even an idea is an outrage to Rockstar's constitutional rights of Freedom of Speech. They aren't forcing this media on your children, and it is rated mature so your children can not purchase it from the store.
But hey, Politician's rape the constitution every day to place blame on everything except themselves. Jack Thompson thinks he is doing good, but he isn't. People like Jack Thompson are the reason that kids are so fucked up these days, he is trying to prohibit expression. Could you imagine if Jack Thompson's issue was against traditional art? What he is doing now, is the same as denying Artists like Dav Marat the ability to create amazing art like this http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/cas/his/CoreArt/art/resourcesb/dav_marat.jpg
Just because a few kids/parents blamed video games to absolve their own responsibility does not mean that there should be no media for adults.