Is a church a public space?
As reported by the Manchester Evening News, leaders of the Church of England don't think so, at least not as far as violent video game depictions are concerned.
CoE officials are up in arms over the depiction of Manchester Cathedral as a setting for battles in Resistance: Fall of Man, a best-selling PS3 launch title. Said the Bishop of Manchester, the Right Reverend Nigel McCulloch:
It is well known that Manchester has a gun crime problem. For a global manufacturer to re-create one of our great Cathedrals with photo-realistic quality and then encourage people to have guns battles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible.
Here in Manchester we do all we can to support communities through our parish clergy, we know the reality of gun crime and the devastating effects it can have on the lives - it is not a trivial matter.
Patsy McKie, who lost a 17-year-old son to Manchester gun violence told the BBC:
I believe it's something that needs to be taken seriously first by the Church but also by parents. We're actually fighting for the minds of our children. There's a war going on - not just in Iraq, but right here on our doorstep - for the minds of our children.
A Sony spokesman said:
It is game-created footage, it is not video or photography. It is entertainment, like Doctor Who or any other science fiction. It is not based on reality at all. Throughout the whole process we have sought permission where necessary.
A company press release added:
Sony Computer Entertainment Europe is aware of the concerns expressed by the Bishop of Manchester and the cathedral authorities... and we naturally take the concerns very seriously.
Church officials want an apology and the removal of Resistance from store shelves. Otherwise, they've threatened legal action. The BBC has a video report.
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Comments
June 10th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
One thing I find strange is the platform the game is on, in relation to them claiming it will inspire gun crime.
Most gun crime in England I would imagine is related to drugs and gangs (or both). How often will a drug lord or drug addict pay almost 500 pounds sterling for a PS3 and copy of the game? If you are a drug addict, your money will only go on drugs, not very expensive hardware/software. If you are a drug lord/dealer, you probably have the money to buy and play the game, but you got it via crime and drug dealing, meaning that trying to blame the game for your violence is like blaming wet ground for the rain that happened earlier.
Like has been said already, many films have depicted gun battles and violence in churches. Once again, video are singled out as different somehow. I believe that the Church of England has looked at all of the existing fuss and lies in the media about video games and their (non-existent) link to violence. Then they have seen how parents react. Then they have thought to themselves, “Hmm, Sony probably have some pretty deep pockets!”
This is blatant opportunism, using a silly issue like this to try and drum up support and/or money for their church, in a time when the church is less and less relevant in people’s lives."
That, and i think that their trying to restablish their control over the media.....The American Church used to decide what and what not was shown in movies :(
They should be confronted head-on with a lawsuit and defeated, in order to prevent such a thing.
WHat I DO know is that i've always wanted to visit that church but i've never gotten the oppurtunity to do so :) being able to do so in Fall of Man just made it so I visited it, and then blew the crap out of little spider thingys.
Lay off, guys. We're not all Fred Phelps clones. Most of us are deeply embarassed by the big, loud pseudo-Christians that get all the media attention while we're off doing actual good things.
Hey, was that cathedral in Eternal Darkness based on a real one?
June 10th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
Come to think of it, wasn’t there a great deal of violence in a church in the Hellsing TV series (The vampire Arucard got killed and resurrected himself in a church)? I know it was a one of the Churches of England, but I don’t remember which one (Lancaster?). Anyways, that got no outcry."
Alucard*. It's meant to be Dracula spelled backwards. the Aru is a mistranslation.
But yea, given all the depictions of the vatican in the Manga, T.V series, and OVA, it's a wonder the Catholic church hasn't condemed the franchise.
I mean, the guy leading the Iscariot organization is a Religious Maniac who thinks hes god's wrath upon the earth, and attacks london right in the midst of a vampire nazi invasion just so he can kill as many protestants as possible.
As its been proven countless times before, so shall it be proven again. Video games show NO significant influence on violence in children. None. The sheer fact that the CoE is even worried about this kind of game shows their lack of understanding.
However, history repeats itself. Back in the day, the introduction of heavy metal was taken very poorly. Parents were scared that their children were going to turn into killers. Nothing happened then, and the same will happen with video games. One popular culture to the other.
"Thou shalt not mediawhore."
Sure it's a little ridiculous but it's nothing to get yer panties in a bunch about.
Sony knew what they were doing, probably thought they were being "edgy" and hey, any controversy is only going to benefit them anyway.
I don't think Sony has much to fear from a bunch of pissed off Anglicans. Now if they had set this in a mosque.....
Do we have any kind of history for this? Can we cite any other private place featured in a game?
This is that thing where the kid made his school into a multiplaer map all over again.
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Church_of_England_threatens_legal_action_ove...
Comments:
http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Church_of_England_threaten...
You're half-right. Nobody complained about the church at the end of the game because it wasn't any specific one. However, Sikhs did complain about another level that featured the Golden Temple.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitman_2#Controversy
Not that I think Resistance shouldn't have been able to put the Manchester Cathedral. If you're setting the game in a real city, you damn well better include its landmarks for the sake of immersion. I just know these people are using any excuse they can get to attack games. Their comparison of this incident to the Iraq War just proves how insane they are.
1. I do feel bad for the Christians that are truely embarassed on a daily basis by those that the media considers to be experts on the religion. I understand fully that not all Christians are ignorant fools. I feel sorry for you guys, but I do wish that all Muslims, Wiccans, Atheists and even Satanists received the empathy as not all of them are crazy assholes.
2. Yea Aliens wouldn't care if it was a church or not, nor would Nazi's, nor would Terrorist and the same applies to America. We have bombed mosques in Afganistan and Iraq because Terrorist have decided to hide in there. Or people we thought were Terrorists were hiding in there.(hey sometimes we are wrong, sometimes as in many times) Either way it supports your argument that fighting in a place of worship is not uncommon. And even if it was uncommon you have to take the game's story into account. Humans vs Aliens for existance and our home world. To my knowledge this would be an uncommon event, since it has yet to happen. Well it hasn't happened to my knowledge, if it has please fill me in guys. So not does fighting in a place of worship occur many times in history but in the story of the game in question its a very uncommon and dramatic event. And I'm certain if it really happened Jesus/God/[Insert religious figure] wouldn't mind some Alien brains and blood where followers usually worshiped him/her/them.
B: Hey thats mean dont do that... Moooom sony's being meaan.
Sony: Nuh-uh
B: Yes you are you making rude faces at me.
Sony: Nuh-uh
B: Stop it!! I'ma tell!!
Sony: Nuh-uh
It is possible to obtain guns illegally, you know; shady black market dealers and the like.
I always thought that gun crime in England was rare. As I once heard Robin Williams say, “In England if you commit a crime, the police don’t have a gun and you don’t have a gun. So if you commit a crime it’s, ‘Stop! Or I’ll say stop again!”
Police on their standard patrols don't usually carry firearms but they do have the ability to call upon armed response units when the need arises.
Still, I agree with everyone else. The game’s been out for several months and only now do they get up in arms about it? Yes, it really does make them look very out of touch. And trying to get the game banned or pulled now would do no good now as it’s practically a fait accompli.
Several months in the US, yes. However; England is not part of the US, it is part of the UK, in Europe, where the PS3 was released under three months ago. Still doesn't mean that they'll be able to get the game banned though.
The events you're talking about took place in a church in Cheddar. The Lancaster Cathedral reference is made by Alucard; a silver cross from the cathedral was allegedly melted down to make the bullets for his gun.
Anyway, I don't think a cult Japanese cartoon is going to have the same exposure as a Sony videogame; it's doubtful the CoE would have even heard of Hellsing, but the newest Sony console has been in every media outlet you care to mention.
theres actually some pretty strict conditions on using famous landmarks, and that applies to the US as well as the UK. I never looked into the details too deeply, but we had to remove a number of landmarks from a game set in NY because the images were apparently copyright by the property owner or something like that. Sorry I dont have more details, but I remember being very surprised at the time that such things were protected.
Please try to make your posts have more substance than general indignation. Expand any argument you may have, rather than going WTF!!!11!
You expect someone who wants a large group of people to kill themselves to present an argument?
Sorry, your stupid level is much too high for this.
Yes, Alucard did have a fight in a church in Hellsing. Well, not much of a fight. He got shot to Swiss cheese and then reformed and shot the Hell (pun intended) out of the minions. After which he killed a female police officer and a man claiming to be a priest.
Been a few years since I watched it, but didn't the final battle against Enigma take place in a church, too? Or was that a government building? And who can forget his fights against an actual Priest!
Don't forget that there was a church in Final Fantasy 7. You met Aeris there and then have a confrontation with Reno. The scene included unprovoked gunfire, Cloud dropping barrels, and random battles against monsters withing the Church. There were two fights withing the same church in Advent Children. Sure it was fictional, but it was still a church.