Sounds to me like they are more after cash than morality. Sure, Sony would have been courteous to ask permission, but seeing as how it is a public place i fail to see the problem. The Golden Gate Bridge, Empire State building, Eiffel Tower, Kremlin, The White House, The Pyramids, all these places have been recreated for shootout scenes in film/games. And there has not been a single "reenactment". Besides, isnt Resistance about defending earth from demonic invaders? I´d say that driving them from the Cathedral would be very suitable.

"We believe a comprehensive viewing of the work will make its content and context clear. Accordingly we would be pleased to demonstrate it to you at a mutually convenient time.' ~SCEE

"In the meeting with Sony we will discuss our outstanding demands, how this game came to be produced and where the images of the Cathedral came from." ~COE

..."our oustanding demands"? Whaaat?

The Church of England has little, if any, leg to stand on to make ANY demands legally, morally, or otherwise. I cannot belive that SCEE is entertaining the suggestions of these people, even if it is to show the CoE how foolish they're being. I understand that Sony has to at least say something about the fuss that the CoE is bringing up about a game that has been on the market for nearly 8 months, but I really hope that the Church doesn't use this response as any justification for their rediculous actions.

I like ctrl alt delete's comic on this topic. Its so true to what the CoE is trying to do.

At Ctrl Alt Delete, that's where. It's a few comics back on the page.

"In the meeting with Sony we will discuss our outstanding demands, how this game came to be produced and where the images of the Cathedral came from."

The hell? Why is it important to them how the game was produced. It's as if they believe that Resistance is entirely centered around their precious Cathedral, when a bit of fact-checking would reveal that it's only ONE level in the whole game.

As for where the images of the Cathedral came from, haven't these people heard of the Internet? I turned up dozens of images of the building-inside and out-just by typing "Manchester Cathedral" in Yahoo! Images. But from the sound of the CoE, Sony must have sent agents in to secretly take pictures!

Don't you just love it when people make trivial matters out to be conspiracies against them?

Demands? who did they kidnap?! is anybody else have the creeps from the language used by the church?

You know the game is set in an alternate version of reality where WWII (not WWI) never happened, thus making it not a world war game. I don't know if ctrl alt delete put WWI out of an error or if they're just trying to show that the church really doesn't know what it's talking about.

Anyway I said it before I'll say it again, worst comes to worst Sony can always make the cathedral a parody of the manchester cathedral, thus making sure they can continue to sell it.

"However, we do not move from the position that we are against violence and especially the gun violence seen in this portrayal of the Cathedral."

So if had been pointy stick violence or power tool violence, they'd have been less upset? As if the tool used makes any difference when nobody is hurt by a fictional story either way.

But, yea, the meta blame-everything-but-the-criminal shrieking here is quite amusing if you think of it. Not only are they just blaming one inanimate object for the actions of sociopaths, they're blaming non-existent, inanimate guns inside of an inanimate game. Now if only someone would make a movie about the controversy so they could have a recursive, finger-pointing trifecta. The feedback from all that shrieking might set off a chain reaction and destroy the universe though..

I don't think it's a question of whether or not they can continue to sell it. They may give in, given that they've gone and apologized for nothing. I hope they don't. The worst the Church of England can probably muster, if Sony did get all the necessary permissions like they say, is a boycott involving lots and lots of people who had no plans to purchase a PS3 anyway.

I wish there was a way to counter this whole thing, though. The standard "apologize and try to amend" method is about the easiest way to make these things go away, but when you get into the habit of doing that people can just say any old stupid thing they want about your products and you're backed into a corner. There has to be a way to handle this that doesn't involve Sony changing anything, because they're not in the wrong.

Then again... that didn't work out for Rockstar/Take-Two when they weren't in the wrong over Hot Coffee (until they started lying to the press). Or for Bethesda when they weren't in the wrong over Oblivion. I guess this industry does have a history of shooting at its own.

http://www.acegamez.co.uk/reviews_playstation2/The_Getaway_PS2.htm

Looks like St. Paul's Cathedral was in The Getaway but nobody had a problem.

"In the meeting with Sony we will discuss our OUTRAGEOUS demands"

there, fixed it

The CoE's response just strengthens my theory that they have no idea what the context is and they think it's some sort of gang shoot out in the Cathedral. Now that they've leveled their accusations, they don't want to lose face by admitting that they jumped to baseless assumptions.

Sony's response it this has thus far been entirely appropriate IMO. They apologized for any unintended offense they gave in their explanation that they've done nothing wrong. They've agreed to meet with the church officials to try and straighten this mess out.

The problem in the future is that Sony's probably thinking in terms of showing the CoE the context and getting them to understand that they are way off target and don't have a leg to stand on. Meanwhile, the CoE is thinking in terms of Sony slowly giving in to their demands.

See if someone mods something then thats not really part of the release game, thats a mod made by a fan. So the fan that made the mod would be sued.

I'm with Sony over this whole pointless argument that unfortunately Sony have had to apologise for.

Its quite staggering that the CoE has the gall to bring something up this late. The game has sold over a million copies (more now with all this free publicity) and its been in development for at least 1-2 years.

Most of us here seem to be on Sonys side but if you check the BBC forums for this its turned into a debate about Manchester and gun crime in the 21st Century being compared to 1950s Fictional warfare.

Theres also a lot of Church Bashing just in case anyone might get offended. Also there getting increasingly statistical.

While I will admit the right of anyone to be offended by a 5 min Defend yourself from the Alien Hordes in a Cathedral I personally cannot see why any sane person would not defend themselves?

Good Luck Sony and CoE while I respect your current aims, (not the old ones like in the bible, eg crusades etc) If you had really been that bothered you would have made more of a cry when it was released.

Sony Up, CoE I couldnt care less

no Tom your not the only one lol

We as gamers, or just the gamers at least, need to show more of our support for companies like Sony, and Take Two. What Sony is going through now with the CoD, oops CoE, is going to be a strong social dissapproval in violent video games. If the the CoE gets what it wants politicians and other groups against video games will have that edge they need to snuff out our freedom of entertainment.
It is funny that a lot of us agree with Sony and laugh at the CoE and Parliament but do not show our support publicly. We are content with the attacks on video games not winning. We are satisfied with a Supreme Court over ruling anti-video game legislation. It should not even get that far. Gamers make up a vast majority of society and we are letting the minority tell us it is bad or offensive. We are letting them try to push their opinions on us.

VENT: Ugh, you're dumb and I hate all of you.

Geez. Bull like this alienates Christians from their own religion.

At least the smart ones.

CoE needs to get off their religious asses and get out into the real world. Last time I checked, recreating something in a virtual world, and then using said recreation as a setting for aliens invading in a fictional past event, is far from doing anything wrong. Additionally, since the CoE clearly has no intention of accepting any form of apology other than money, it's clear that they are not actually offended by it, and are just attempting to make any ridiculous claim that they can to cheat a multinational company out of as much money as they can. Hell, the FIRST they they said was "apologize and give money to us... or else" Think they could have at least waited for the apology before rejecting it and requesting money. It's about the same as a panhandler making a sign that says "will work for booze". Yeah they cut out the bullshit, but it doesn't make anyone want to help them at all. Honestly, I believe that the CoE could have made an impact, and gotten compensation if they had approached the situation any better. However, due to the obviously greedy tactics and complaints, it seems that most people are on Sony's side (man, who would have thought I'd ever side with sony. I think hell has frozen over)

I think what annoys me is the fact they are doing it on the 'Ooooh! Guns are Bad!' sort of thing, when it's so transparently an 'Ooooh, you're making money from using Manchester Cathedral and we aren't getting a cut!'.

If they'd been honest and said that they wanted royalties for using the Cathedral as the setting which, I suspect, is where this will end up, then I'd be a bit more sympathetic to their cause, even if they don't seem to realise you can get the architectural plans of Manchester Cathedral from their own Town Hall, as well the fact it's in several books in the library, making money from someone elses' building is, at the very least, something that needs to be looked at in computer games, because it's going to occur more often.

What annoys me is the whole attempt to twist a simple copyright issue, which is what they originally stated the problem was, into a whole 'Social' one to try and buy leverage for pressuring Sony for Royalties, not only is it underhanded, but it's also pretty blatant.

CoE, they've already apologized. After that, you should do what Jesus would have done, forgive.

It's a spiritual blackmail alright. Haha, did Jesus taught them how to cheat and lie? I mean hey, I thought Jesus said that cheating and lying is an abomination to God...

Man, Christianity is a nutcase.

Remember! Christians hate to be in the spotlight because deep down inside they are cowards and hypocrites who think that they are always right, get real!

@Clyde Wyman

Way to generalize an entire religion based on the actions of just a few. What, exactly, does your last stated opinion have to do with the topic? If anything, Christians are showing that they enjoy being in the spotlight, otherwise the CoE wouldn't be doing squat about it.

Damned Church..... now they want to get money?? Church is corrupted, and i start thinking that all of this means "we want money too". That makes me vomit..... Why do they exist again? Incredible, this time God has to look at them and do something.. =P

They do know that Greed is a deadly sin don't they ?

i swear, i get tired of all these jesus, child moleston freaks, all they care about is money. They will want sony to pay them some sort of fee, or donation to make "god" feel better, which begs the question, so it is ok for the church, like it's long history, and not just this one , to spill blood in the name of jesus......god wills it....give me a fu*kin break...which also begs another question, does god even exist, i mean look at it real hard, look how much bloodshed has been done over centries,in his name. The church was one of the biggest contributers to this. These so called "holy men" only care about how much they can fill their pockets when theay're pants are up, and don't have thier co*k in some littles boys mouth..if i was sony, personally, i would tell them to moleste something, in the name of "god" of course.

"Geez. Bull like this alienates Christians from their own religion."

You got that right. I happen to be a christian and i find this rediculous.

The real translation of what the Church of England has to say;
Give us moeny, and this will all go away. Otherwise, we'll negotiate over something that isn't illegal in the first place.

Whats next? French people claiming no one asked their permission to use French towns in WWII games?

0mg! is like the middle ages

This is unbelieveable. The Church of England needs to get a life.

Sign the petition to ask the Church of England to just chill the heck out!

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/CofEChill/index.html

Why doesnt somebody sue the church for all the wars they started or all the slaves they killed or all the children they molested or how they abused gods name to get what hey want. More importantly why are they still even here if me or my people did anything like that its over for us forever. Just goes 2 show how normal people cant do nothing but the church can do anything!!!

@evergence
Where might i find those bbc thAat you speak of, I'd like to join the debate.

everyone here seems to be spiritually dead, which is ironic considering just about everyone here is complaining about the CoE being spiritually dead.

you all make me sick. get your head out of your self-centered, insignificant lives and learn something about respect. and no, i'm not talking about "street" respect all you ignorant POS's think real respect is, i'm talking about respect for other peoples beliefs and religious orders.

Certainly makes the Church look charitable and supportive, no?

lol @ okthen..

---"you all make me sick. get your head out of your self-centered, insignificant lives and learn something about respect. and no, i’m not talking about “street” respect all you ignorant POS’s think real respect is, i’m talking about respect for other peoples beliefs and religious orders."---

They used the church as a virtual setting. It was not sanctified. What is next, not being able to use a cross in games?

Maybe the Satanic Church will sue every game producer for showing any scenes in Hell... Doom better beware!!

There is more than enough photography etc available in the public domain of the Cathedral that the CoE will never prove breach of copyright, not to mention the whole "copyright only extends to 70 years after the death of the architect" statute which is well and truly gone.

Your attitude, okthen, is typical of the people I used to know in my ex-church, which incidentally drove me away from organised religion. Holier than thou hypocrite. You are too busy casting stones that you never bother to look at your own life. How about you worry about your immortal soul and let the rest of us worry about ours?

Hey Okthen, how about you stop bundling everyone up to fit your own snivelling little opinion and start dealing with people as individuals instead of 'people who think wrong'?

You want to be spiritual, fine, I don't have a problem with that, and I don't jump to conclusions about you. I do, however, jump to the conclusion that your 'spiritualism' involves just as much bile and spittle as those you are condemning. Don't you find that interesting?

@ okthen

I respect your beliefs But its great to see that Christian viewpoint 'Our Insignificant lives' thats full of respect. I suppose I could be offended you said my life was Insignificant... I want compensation for that.

Like Tom and Asmo said if you dont like it dont buy it but you obviosly dont respect our right to do what we want either. We're not bashing the CoE cos its fun to do we're annoyed that they have bothered to do this after the games been out a year and not one peep from them then was THERE!! and then expecting a big fat cheque afterwards.

Also all the policticians out there jumping on this bandwagon is in my opinion awful yes get rid of guns/knives/ but then we're just bashing each other with fists then.

Okthen:
Just another jackass blinded by Zealotry.

@Okthen

Do you think Tom Hanks and Spielberg should be sued for band of brothers? They showed American wounded in a church in Bastogne, a scene that was far bloodier than any scene portray in this game. What when easy company is sitting in the a Church in the town of Foy as the narrator talks about all the friends they lost since D-Day? Pick your fucking standard and stick too it. God I bet your the same with your religion, sin sin sin till sunday, sit sing dance pray swear to god you won't do it again, then monday comes and you right back to the same fucking routine. Fuck you. You have no right to call any one spiritually dead, did god send a fucking angel down to tell you to judge the world? Fuck you. God damnit people like you make me tired.


@Green Ghost

I do every day of the week, its called driving in a middle class metro area.

Jer

Agreed - although I have to say that as a fellow Catholic, it's unnerving for me to see the higher-ups in my own religion jump the gun on matters like these. I'm tempted to say that the pulpit makes more sense than the preacher...

Jer

Thanks for the clarification - I better double up my reading before saying anything else...although I still think the CoE is overreacting to the whole matter.

OK, everyone take a deep breath. Relax. Calm down. Let's not bash any religion, as that only makes us look as bad as though we insult. Fighting fire with fire only creates a bigger fire.

Like many others, I am dismayed by the Church's blatant double standard. Many movies, books, and even games portray churches. Some times they are used as field Hospitals. Other times they are the scene for fights (didn't the second Resident Evil movie have a fight scene in a church?). I contend that this is intended as a plot point. A shock to the viewer. "Oh my God, these demons are killing people within a church!"

Sony has no reason to apologize. At all. Period. The Church of England should apologize to Sony for creating such a fuss.

Also, a little History. The Church of England was founded in 1534 when King Henry VII wished to divorce his first wife, Catherine of Aragon. When Pope Clement VII (under pressure from Catherine's nephew, Emperor Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor) refused his demands, Henry passed the Act of Supremacy which declared him "the only supreme head on earth of the Church in England". Even more interesting is that Henry was theologically a Catholic (It's already been noted that the Church of England is Protestant).

People who didn't sleep in History class may also remember that Henry had his Second wife, her brother and several other men decapitated under a multitude of charges. The charges included, adultery, witchcraft, incest, and conspiracy to murder the King. These were more than likely made up out of convenience so that he could marry one of his wife's Ladies-in-Waiting, Jane Seymore.

I merely thought a little history lesson on the organization in question sounded relevant considering the conversation and charges of ignorance being thrown around. I looked this information up on Wikipedia. It's freely available to all those who wish to question it or look it up for more information. If any of the information is incorrect I apologize.

@ Okthen

Unlike Evergence, I do not respect your "viewpoint". You have no viewpoint. It's all just angry ignorant ranting. Come back when you grow up.

@ green_ghost5

Even if you don't respect any religion, at least grant it's followers the right to exist. I find that true believers are the most kind, genuine people around. That goes for all beliefs not just religions.

As a Catholic, which to me is just as...skeptical and basically religiously corrupt as any other Christian denomination, i think the CoE needs a big ol' PIAMP slap. lol, just had to say that.
It's very sad to see that the clergymen and priests paractice their religion less than the common-man of said religion

and okthen if u want 2 respect child molester and killers then go right ahead it just shows the kind of person u are either ur brainwasher or stupid!!!

To Clyde Wyman

Just so you know, seeing as this has turned into a religious debate (is this even what this forum is for?) I'm Pagan (One of those "tons of religions")and my boyfriend is Christian. Neither of us worries about "converting" the other. Same goes for my parents. I am interested in his religion, in an academic sense and that nothing to do with converting, though I have very good reason to hate it (A few centries of persercution can do that).

If Christians are so bad then why are you acting exactly like you say they do? And What has whether or not "God" is real got to with this either? Do you really want this life to be all there is? If so, that's fine but don't expect all to follow your "enlightened" path. It is called "faith" for a reason; if you don't have it, that's fine too. Please stop forcing your opinions on us. I'm going to be so blatent as to say that you're a hypocrite. Who exactly is forcing their "religion and fairy tales" on whom? The Christians here or those of you are so closed minded as to not let anyone believe what you can't?

@burna:

You're thinking of the wrong church. Once and for all, the Church of England is not Catholic.

The hypocrisy in these comments is alarming.
the same people bashing okthen for having a different opinion are the same people bashing religion because it differs from their opinion.

The world needs more religious tolerance. I'm a Christian, but yet, I'm respectful to everybodies beliefs, so long as it doesn't include harming me. Nobody has any right to make fun or belittle somebody who has faith just as much as somebody who has a faith has no right to belittle or make fun of somebody who doesn't.

As far as the church's demands, if there is a legal procedure to go through to get permission, then Sony should be punished accordingly. If there isn't, then all is okay.

@burna

Why do you assume that they believe they are somehow better than you?

@burna

to me its all the same one person who wants to run somebodys life is just as bad as the other!!!

The thing is the distinction is somewhat important in this case given you keep blasting all the priests in the Church of England as "child molesters".

Specifically it's the Catholic Church that's been having that problem with some of it's priests. The Protestant churches generally allow their priesthood to marry, which seems to cut the problem down to near nil.

Basically while it's your right to rag on religion as much as you want, you should at least be learned enough to blame the right religion for something. Otherwise you waste people's time and look like an idiot.

It'd be kind of like blaming Nintendo for Hot Coffee. Yes they're in the same field as the people that made the game and the console that had the problem, but they didn't remotely have anything to do with it.

Kinda doesn't surprise me, considering KV thought the least Sony could do is stop selling the game. These guys are out for blood, a simple "I'm sorry" isn't going to cut it for them.

okthen Says:
you all make me sick. get your head out of your self-centered, insignificant lives and learn something about respect. and no, i’m not talking about “street” respect all you ignorant POS’s think real respect is...

We're not from the street, we're from the internet. Represent.

@super pope

Apparently so - They probably figured that since all these morality groups and politicians have thoroughly covered the "For the Children" angle of gaming violence, somebody ought to stand up for the rights of every malevolent alien invader that's been abused (read: bludgeoned, chainsawed, shotgunned, etc.) for games past.

Please, somebody think of the aliens - Face huggers and head crabs have feelings too!