June 18, 2007
As the July 9th release date for Manhunt 2 draws near, the ultra-violent game is expected to come under increasing fire from critics.Gadfly Miami attorney Jack Thompson wrote in a recent e-mail that there will be a "big news development" in regard to Manhunt 2 this week. But Thompson, who didn't provide any additional information, often makes such claims. We've learned to keep a grain of salt handy.
Of far more interest is a little nugget GamePolitics uncovered in, oddly enough, the Veggie & Boston Blog. On June 15th blog author Maynard Clark of Harvard Medical School, wrote about the upcoming activities of the Campaign for a Commercial-free Childhood (CCFC):
CCFC has big plans for the months ahead. In the next few weeks, CCFC will be launching new campaigns to stop a horrifically violent video game from being marketed to children...
Clark is clearly an admirer of CCFC and its chairperson, Harvard colleague Dr. Susan Linn. Given the timing, it seems highly likely that the game which Clark refers to is Manhunt 2. If GP's crystal ball is correct, it will be interesting to hear the basis upon which CCFC says the M-rated game will be marketed to children.
CCFC's involvement could spell bad news for developer Rockstar and publisher Take Two Interactive. For example, CCFC led last December's successful effort to keep ads for M-rated games off buses and trains of the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority. The game which sparked the MBTA protest? Another Take Two product, GTA Vice City Stories.
Comments
2) Ask any parents, adults, or even children, who think a game with that kind of graphic horror coverart, could even, remotely,be something for children.
3) if 2) is true: Ask what they've been smoking, then report them to the local mental health authority for being a danger to society and the moral backbone of civilization.
4) Take the game from kids, play it yourself. Enjoy. ;)
+
thompson is always trying to stir up trouble and blows anything he finds useful out of proportion while ignoring anything not useful (EX: In the game GTA you can shoot cops but doing so will increase your wanted level. Real World Translation: In GTA you can shoot cops but its a bad idea. JBT's Translation: In GTA you shoot cops.)
I second that.
I don't see how its marketed toward children. Since when does what looks to be a bloody, dirty, closeup of a face say "hey little children buy me".
I mean remember when Camel Cigarettes and Budweiser got a bunch of crap for using cartoons and funny animals for marketing their products? People started saying it was targeting children. I guess thats easier to buy but I mean now you add this video game into the mix and apparently children like Cartoons, cute animals, bright colors, blood and gore.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
That was my first thought as well.
@Clyde Wyman:
Eh?? What are you talking about?
Marketing an ultra-violent to children is best paralleled to Mario going Solid Snake on Bowser and the Koopas... Not gonna happen
Step 2) Do nothing.
Step 3) See that the violent game isn't actually marketed to children.
Step 4) Declare victory!
See how easy that is?
I'm going to confess that once again I am rather baffled by one of your posts.
Who wants to start an organization dedicated to fighting the evils of books, sports, cops and robbers, tug of war, tag, intelligent thought, and sleeping. These scourges on humanity must be stopped and damnit they are harming the youth of our nation... no, the youth of the world. THINK OF THE CHILDREN GOD DAMNIT!!!!!!!!
See, they aren't sitting there thinking, "Well, so long as children can't play it it's fine." They don't think that a game like Manhunt 2 has a right to exist at all for anyone's consumption. Our laws say otherwise, though, so these people are using the "think of the children!" method to move their agenda forward. It's a weapon in their arsenal that they're using to achieve a goal rather then a goal itself. Their goal is the eradication of speech they disagree with.
Even as recently as a decade ago you would have found these people working to declare something like Manhunt 2 obscene in their own local jurisdiction. The way our free speech laws are framed that's completely acceptable. Basically, the law says that anything that's obscene can be censored and the judgment about obscenity needs to be made by the local community. Back then you'd find towns where something like a Manhunt 2 was banned as being obscene.
The difference is that now these people believe that they have the right to spread their community beliefs well beyond their community. They believe that they have the right to tell the nation at large what media they can consume. This belief is being fostered by money-grubbing bottom-feeders like Jack Thompson and shortsighted vote whores in state governments. These people feel justified in their actions.
I don't like the idea of censorship, but if a local community decides that a certain product goes against their community standards then who am I to step in and force them to sell it? At the same time, though, who are they to suggest that anyone outside of their community adhere to their standards? It's arrogance, pure and simple.
My local community can call something obscene. I can then challenge that in court and they will lose. For something to be obscene it must (fail/pass?) the miller test. A 3 pronged test used to determine if something is obscene.
Patently offensive
Conveys no Ideas or thoughts
something else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test
So yeah my community can be stupid. I can then tell them to piss off and take it to the courts.
You can and that's how it should work. It should all be done on a community level because your community will have a different set of standards then my community. That's why the language in the Miller test was specifically chosen.
When you challenge it they might not lose. They may win. The point is that the question of whether or not something is obscene is so subjective that it cannot be decided on national scale. As you rightly say, even in small communities there are going to be major differences and challenges.
I'm not talking only about Manhunt 2. The way the Miller test is currently framed Manhunt 2 wouldn't be declared obscene. When the Miller test became the standard for obscenity law the conservative Christian ethic was an even stronger force then it is now and the fear that prompted the legislation was fear of sexuality rather then fear of violence. So long as Manhunt 2 doesn't show a ding-a-ling, a hoo-hah or anybody peeing or dropping a deuce it'll be fine.
From your link:
1) Prurient interest.
2) Patently offensive description of sexual or excretory functions
3) No SLAPS (Serious Literary, Artistic, Political or Scientific) value
See? No violence. Only sex. America is afraid of sex. Europe is afraid of violence. Teen pregnancies in America, teen stabbings in Europe. So it goes.
Hehe SLAPS. I love that one.
Its a golden opp to have a lot of fun :)
I GP is wrong in this educated guess. While I can understand people being concerned about their children playing this game, how can advertisements hurt them? This game will not be advertised on 'Power Rangers' or 'Mickey Mouse's Fun Time Kids Only Watch This Show Happy Hour' so unless it is there is no concern. Last I checked all the parents have to do is say "no". That worked for me until I got a car, job, and money.
@ Tom
My county has a ban on Porn. No store can sell it within the county. Not that anyone I know has ever found, at least. While I can understand the idea, it still annoys me. If the people in our community didn't want it, they wouldn't buy it and the store would go under.
@ E. Zachary Knight
What would be the problem with a Shrek based exercise ad? If kids like Shrek and he encourages them to preform healthy activities, how is that bad? This organization seems pretty bigoted.
Seriously, though, anyone who thinks that this is being marketed to children is nuts. Hell, I would've been scared to death of that box art as a kid.
Read Closer, he said COUNTY not COUNTRY.
It had something to do with the fact that he was fat and on the box of children's sugary breakfast cereal and other sugar filled snack foods.
Heh looking at my last post I can see why you might ask that. First, I meant to say "I HOPE GP is wrong in this educated guess." I should of proof-read, I guess. But, no, I didn't misspell country. I meant county. For our foreign visitors, the United states is divided into 50 individual states, each with their own governments and laws. Each State is divided into so many counties which also have their own governments and laws.
I live in the United States of America. Georgia to be precise. Yes, I'm a Southerner. Don't be fooled by what you see on TV. We're not all rednecks. At least... not on the outside.
The county I live in will not allow Porn to be sold at all. What's really surprising is that its a part of Metro Atlanta.
Georgia kicks ass... except for the public schools.
Wait, metro area? We have porn stores in Fulton, gwinnett, cobb, and Cherokee. Which county is it?
I can honestly see how this game is being seen as being "marketed to kids" from a gamers standpoint. Many gamers see Nintendo's system as a "kiddie" system. A lot of kids find the Wii as a fun machine. Nintendo is advertising their Wii to all ages. An extremely violent game is now being released on this kiddie system.
Therefore, they must be advertising the game!!!
Nintendo should mail all the parents who possess a Wii in their house explaining how to use the parental controls on their console. The Wii has it. So if the parents can not care to do it and their kid plays the game, it's more their fault than anything.
I take it you're a Georgian as well? I won't bother to ask if your a Georgia fan or Tech fan (I really don't care).
Henry. It's on the Southern perimeter. Among the fastest growing counties in the country last I heard.
If you really want porn all you have to do is drive maybe 10-15 minutes to a neighboring county. I've seen plenty of stores elsewhere. Hell, a family member of mine is in the management of Starship.
And don't bash the Georgia Public Schools... that much. It really depends on the student, in my opinion. I knew plenty of intelligent people back in school. And still do.
Oh I know, my school lost accreditation twice because students who were part of certain groups were not performing well enough despite the fact I know that teachers did everything they could for them... maybe I'm just bitter because my school screwed up my math credits preventing me from my first choice college.
Well, its not like the Georgia public schools are well rated nationally. Then again, someone has to be at the bottom. They can't all be number one. Even if every school had a 98 numerical average one would still be #50. I say judge the person more than anything. Who hasn't met college graduates that are complete idiots?
Sorry to hear that the School screwed up your Math credits. I knew a girl that moved here and the school completely screwed up her credits, too.
That would be nice. After all, movie, music and books are organized in similar fashion. It would take a lot of effort from reatailers to get them to comply.
Tom's breakdown of the censorship movement spells out well what some people within the movement feel. The participants include a wide range of individuals including those who actively participate in legal/press matters, those who donate money to further the cause, volunteers who will ramble about whatever their leaders tell them, and those who fall inside other variations within. It is often based around some quasi-religious rhetoric's agenda but in the end their success will render the same unfortunate end: we all are screwed without so much as getting dinner first. Structurally the movement organizations operate the same as those that won Civil Rights ironically enough.
A hypocritical bigoted mentality, really a lack of unbiased thought and free will pulls the reins IMO. Let us take a snapshot resembling past events that had no small effect on anyone. Pick a year. Outcry from watchdogs and warriors claiming a videogame made for adults in indecent on Tuesday, yet in another arm of their crusade against freedom on the Friday before doctors are killed/women are bullied at an abortion clinic, raped women are denied morning after pills by pharmacists/ER doctors on Wednesday, and children, the very children they are "protecting" are further fed a bed of lies which make up their core beliefs. There is often little free thought wiggle-room if you are a part of the communities supporting these crusades. As a simple supporter you may not have built the hardware for said clinic, but you benefited from a further schism being drawn between those with your beliefs and those without them. Those most devout and crazy resort to extreme measures to make the point and become a martyr, but the stain doesn't go away. I feel I am responsible for Bush's antics overseas and our soldiers' deaths indirectly even though I voted against him every time. I feel shame for being an American right now.
I am not painting this broadly to say all Christians are causing our freedoms to go down the shitter. I know many who are good people that filter what they hear from their religious leaders when necessary, and some who are awesome religious leaders that skip the political BS and try to give freedom back to their flock. They don't cut their neighbors' thumbs off to keep them from playing videogames, or push their beliefs on society, actively missioning or trying to convert. However, I will say that a minority of people who use the potent drawing-power of religion (with its roots of cult followers, support networks, established history, privileges, and contacts) to affect and sway society are getting away with murder every day. Front stage and back stage antics where their true intent is never really visible to others.
I can imagine a mass disc-burning session is being planned by local church coalitions now. Well, maybe by the richer churches. Wii games are pretty expensive after all. I'm still waiting for Rockstar to be equated as the Devil's work in major print media, so locals can burn all violent games like they did with Harry Potter books. I will be right there watching the demonstrations when they begin to burn games, let alone bomberman discs, my favorite game series of all time, holding my sign and making noise. Hopefully wearing a bomberman suit and holding flowers to drive home the point.
To the Georgians, I empathize, living in North Carolina since '98.
prove that it's going to be marketed to kids and then we'll talk
1) ask Rockstar nicely
2) When they say they won't, believe them.
3) If you ever see the ad in a public space take a good look at it before deciding if it's being amrketed to children.
4) If you think it is ask rockstar about it
5) If you don't believe them seek a professional (like a psychiatrist) for a quick analysis.
6) If the psychiatrist agrees then you have a problem
7) If not, ignore it and have a nice day.
Anyway at the very least they aren't trying to ban it.
So I can expect CCFC reps outside Wal-Mart, Gamestop, Block Buster, and Best Buy trying to convince consenting adults not to pollute themselves with violent games?
BTW, if I stand in on any demonstration line watching people burning discs, I will be against the horde, not with it. My epic above may have not made that clear enough. I have my free speech as well, so long as I have equal permits to gather legally against such an act.
I go to college at Georgia Southern, so I don't care much for the big Rivalry up there. I have more important things to worry about, like if I will survive my commute from Roswell to Norcross.
I don't think it's going to be that crazy as you suggest, so what if they burn Cds, we can just anger them by slipping a bible jacket onto a regular book and throwing that in. I don't think the fury of violent games has reached that point yet (then again they seem to take the blame for everything). Also as we all know controversy sells, so they amy be counter-productive by making too much noise.
Anyway what's wrong with north carolina? I've lived there for around 6 years.
It has an 'M' on the box, that means Mature, it's not Rocket Science, you don't have to have a degree to figure it out, and for the hard of thinking, the word 'Mature' that is written underneath it may be a little hint.
There was the same backlash against Slasher Movies, and they were only famous WHILE the backlash was going on, most of the 'Gorefest' horrors sunk into a much smaller sub-sulture once the interest subsided. Of all the Politicians, Lawyers and People who seem to feel they have the right to impose their own Moral hang-ups on the rest of society, I just wish ONE of them could get that fact through their incredibly thick skulls.
Nothing in wrong with NC overall. I have lived in four states now: California, New York, West Virginia and North Carolina. I still live here. I married a woman from here. I will probably have kids here. I just have issues with some of the stupid laws and rules enforced around the state. I am also occasionally reminded of being in the Bible Belt more than I would like. The biggest thing was hearing the racial slurs out of peoples' mouths on a daily basis without any shame or remorse, but sometimes pride. When used by an African American teen it often isn't some form of reclaiming the power of the label used against them for decades, as is the case for the homosexual community. When used by someone of European decent it surely isn't a happy exclamation either. It was a HUGE adjustment.
There are many who understand the ratings. They don't care. It is their free right of speech that allows them to counter our free speech right to talk about our beliefs on videogames and media in general. Tom made it very coherent above. They are one line of the sand and some of us are on the other. On some issues we are pals, on others rivals. Such good times keep our freedoms rolling, so long as we keep things in check through proper political and legislative involvement.
The seemingly mindless "adults" with kids (mind you I don't qualify them all to be called parents) and gamers are as much to blame as anyone orchestrating a war behind their puppet strings. Were all "gamers" polite to people in public (including rabid kids overdosed on material they shouldn't have consumed in the first place) to strangers, teachers, and other authority figures, maybe some trend would manifest where being considered a "gamer" equated to being polite and well-mannered. Games and violent material has a bad rap and so do gamers, who are unfairly seen as slackers or deviants because of their choices in personal expression whether it manifest in music, clothes, piercings, or what have you. Giant pizza-box sculpture of a Halo marine included.
It's just another battle, which with education and action will be overcome as other more vital concerns take hold of the nation's spotlight. Hopefully.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1633082-1,00.html