MORE Bad News for Rockstar: Wii-mote Control Prompts Demand That Manhunt 2 Be Adults-Only in North America

June 19, 2007 -

Around the offices of Take Two Interactive, they're likely calling this "Black Tuesday."

In the wake of this morning's word detailing Britain's ban on Manhunt 2 comes more bad news for publisher Take Two and developer Rockstar.

Citing concerns over the Nintendo Wii's popular motion control system, the Center for a Commercial-Free Childhood (CCFC) has demanded that Manhunt 2 be rated AO (adults only) by the ESRB. The game is scheduled for release in North America on July 9th. 

Although Manhunt 2's rating has not been made public to date, the ESRB says that it has already informed Take Two and Rockstar of the game's rating.

The watchdog group's demand was made this morning via letter to ESRB president Patricia Vance. In a press release, CCFC also says that it will launch a letter-writing campaign "so that parents and advocates for children could share their concerns."

AO ratings for commercial video games are virtually unheard of and are considered the kiss of death at retail, since many stores won't carry AO-rated titles. The only commercial game to receive an AO in recent memory was Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas following the 2005 discovery of the notorious Hot Coffee animations and the game's subsequent recall.

From the CCFC press release:

In Manhunt 2, players can saw their enemies’ skulls in half; mutilate them with an axe; castrate them with a pair of pliers; and kill them by bashing their heads into an electrical box, where it is blown apart by a power surge.  On Wii, players will not merely punch buttons or wield a joy stick, but will actually act out this violence...


Said CCFC co-founder, Dr. Susan Linn of Harvard:

If ever there was a time for the ESRB’s strongest and most unambiguous rating, it is now. An Adults Only rating is the only way to limit children’s exposure to this unique combination of horrific violence and interactivity...

An “M” rating is more like a wink and a nod than an effective safeguard. The industry appears to be going through its paces, but as the FTC’s most recent data show, these games are still being marketed to children.


Also quoted in the CCFC press release is Dr. Michael Rich, Director of the Center on Media and Child Health at Children’s Hospital Boston:

Video games are among the most powerful educational tools yet developed... players experience and learn the game’s skills, whether they be based in strategy, logic, or violence. The content of Manhunt 2 and the unique physical interaction with the Wii control combine to take this simulation a level closer to reality - we can expect that the effects of this experience will be even greater. 


On June 6th GamePolitics broke the news that, prompted by Miami activist Jack Thompson, Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum was looking into Manhunt 2 on the Wii. It is unknown what role, if any, Thompson may have played in the CCFC's action, but it's clear that he knew it was coming.

The original Manhunt, controversial in its own right, was rated M (17 and older) at the time of its release in 2003. In addition to the Wii version, Manhunt 2 is scheduled for release on PlayStation 2 and PSP.

A statement received by GamePolitics from ESRB president Patricia Vance said:

We have received the letter from CCFC and, while we might take issue with some of the statements made within, we sincerely appreciate their expressed concerns.  Our ratings are intended to provide guidance that allows parents to choose games they deem suitable for their children, and that is a responsibility we take extremely seriously.   

It should be noted that ESRB has already assigned a rating for the Wii, PS2 and PSP versions of Manhunt 2, and that rating has in fact already been communicated to the publisher.  However, we are unable to publicly release the rating at this time as it is our policy that ratings be posted to our website 30 days following assignment, unless the game is released prior to the end of that period. This is done to give publishers the opportunity to consider modifying and resubmitting their games for rating or appealing the rating assigned to our Appeals Board should they wish to do so.  We have not yet been notified by Rockstar as to what they intend to do with respect to our rating assignment.


GamePolitics Poll: Should Manhunt 2 be rated AO or M? We now have a poll running in the right sidebar. Be sure to vote.

Digg!

Comments

Hey everyone, link back to the GP homepage ...

I’m talking about 14-16 year old gamers who quite possibly THINK they’re mature enough to play games like this..

I think that if you're old enough and responsible enough to have a job or driver's license then you should be able buy any game that you want.

Just to be sure you guys realize that the ESRB doesn't play the games, they just reveiw the content in the game, which in most cases is taken out of context. So before you say we havn't played it yet and we don't know if it should be rated AO keep in mind the ESRB doesn't play it either. Only people who have played this game are the testers at Rockstar.

@Terrible Tom

The idea is to have an organization attached to your name -- a non-profit group, something to that effect with an informative website (ie moveon.org or something similar) to get noticed beyond just a polite thank you.

For example, something like the CCFC -- a non-profit that has some credibility. I know generally how to get one started, but its well beyond my ability to do alone.

I'll do some research, I'll admit that I have no knowledge what so ever on how to start a non-profit organization. Are there any good sources I can access to get some decent info?

Most of my sources are from non-profits I've worked in -- so mostly professional resources ... outside of that, I need to do some digging on my own, hence not being able to do it on my own haha

So, I'll start making some inquiries if people are actually interested, but I don't want to waste my time if no one would jump on board.

Wait a sec... isn't the CCFC against MARKETING to children? Why are they having issues with ratings?

How can we decide if it should be AO or M without access to the game first? ;)

AO is much better than refuse to rate.

Kotaku reports all versions have been rated AO. Will Sony and Nintendo even allow AO content on their systems? Historically, they haven't. AO is the kiss of death because Wal-Mart, Target, K-Mart and Best Buy won't carry it, and they count for a very large percentage of game sales. It seems likely the game actually deserves the AO, though. I've long thought it ridiculous there's no distinction between Halo and Manhunt in the ratings.

[...] So… I hear you liek Mudkips? [...]

Does anyone know where I can get AO rated games in Canada? Or any website that will sell it for sure?

Okay so it's alright for movies to come out that have mutated nuclear fiends raping teenage girls, brutal deaths and executions, etc etc. But ya can't play a game that does all this because it is infact teaching you to kill? Huh What? Who is the retard playing these games, get him away from video games, if your son is fucked up in the head and crazy, yes parents its probably your fault. Figure it out and move on with your life, don't petition against it and ruin everyone elses times with your own problems.

This is so dumb that Stefan Pakeerah's mom is still bitching out Rockstar. You know the story, Stefan got lured into the woods and beat to death with a hammer by his friend. Wow, so they blame manhunt for this? I understand why, you do lure people around and kill them, but come on you can blame that on anything, fucking for christ sake they could say Marilyn Manson says in this song "Lure some kid into the woods and kill him" and RIGHT THERE here we go again, another dumbshit ignorant parent is out petitioning against music and arts just because she cant get her shit straight and parent her own kids.

And anyway the copy of Manhunt was owned by Stefan Pakeerah, not the kid who killed him, strange how thats true and his parents are fighting so hard against the people who create violence in video games. They must be some parents if they buy violent games for their son and then are suprised that violent games are allowed to be released so easily.

Who the hell lures someone into the woods and beats them with a hammer, it sounds like that kid most likely had some issues to begin with, its not like he was a great happy kid and then played Manhunt and was like "Wow you can kill people with hammers? No way! That is so cool, I'm gonna try it".... Come On, the kid mustve been a fuckin tard to do that.

I totaly agree with in a haze

rofl
rofl

[...] Update #1: Ted Regulski sends along info that Manhunt 2 has garnered an AO rating… doh! digg_skin = 'compact'; [...]

this, is such bullshit, this country is being overun by retarded liberals, these ppl are not happy unless they have someting to bitch about constanly, if nots not games, its the war, if it is not that, its certain music......howcome we never hear them bitch about movies, because they probably like to watch them who knows. I think it should be rated M for mature, not AO, i swear, i wish all these ppl would just go play in traffic. The parents are the responsible, and i say this all the time, wonder what the f***, ppl like jack thompson, blamed any killing on, before there were videogames around. and as for stefans mom, shes just tryin to get some money, kinda like the COE, I mean really, and sorry to say video games do not teach a person how to kill, just because you see some guy break some dudes neck on tv or you do it in a video game, it does not teach you how to do it, it is much harder than it looks. I agree with inahaze too. parents who have such f***ed up little retards, they don't need to paly games.

liberals, jesus freaks, doves, democrats, jack thompson. I hate them all.

Why is everyone getting so worked up over this rating? Take Two will tweak the game so that ESRB will rerate the game as an M instead of AO and all problems solved.

I think an M rating is good enough for this game. M is 17+ while AO is 18+. I don't think that's a big difference in maturity. Some people are violent by nature and don't know what's right and what's wrong BEFORE they play a video game. In those cases I see how a game like Manhunt 2 could give them sick ideas. But, the majority of people are not psychotic serial killers and won't become violent just because they play a game. An AO rating is almost as bad as a ban, so I hope for an M rating.

These games are not developed for children, they are developed for adults. Video games are a form of art, and to censor art like this is basically being communist. So, Jack Thompson, er, asshole, wants us to be communist? Wow, what a traitor. I'm not saying that this game should be played by kids, I'm saying that parents need to get off their asses and limit what their kids play. Don't you ever dare to tell me that parents don't have the time to do that. Bullshit. Parents need to use that little tool called responsibility and stand up for themselves, and instead of bitch and moan about what's in a game, bitch to their kids that they don't play it, or they will get punished. No, I take that back. They should just monitor what their kids play period. TAKE ACTION PARENTS. Don't sit there and just think this will go away. It won't, there will ALWAYS be a controversial game out for the masses, always, and unless you tell your kids NO, then there will always be this problem. Seriously, be a parent, be a grownup and take responsibility.

I wonder how it would play out for Rockstar and Take Two if they let Manhunt 2 be their, pardon the pun, sacrificial lamb. (See, the main character is Daniel Lamb, and... no, I guess it wasn't funny. OK.) Here you'll have a benchmark, where you clearly see that this is a title for an AO rating. Most games don't approach this level of violence, and therefore would not be considered candidates for that rating.

It's not like this is a marquee title, anyway. It might be worth just going through with it.

Honestly, why shouldnt this game get the AO rating. what i mean by that is, what possible need is there for a game to have parts where players can more or less re-create scenes from Hostel (if you havent seen part 2 yet there is a scene where someone cuts of a guys penis using a pair of scissors or some sort of weapon like that). sure its better to let these people commit the torture they desire in a virtual world rather than the real one but there really isnt any reason for the ESRB to give Manhunt 2 a rating any lower than AO. I dont mean to sound like him but im about too, this game is basically a torture simulator. frankly Rockstar should have just stuck with the GTA games and Im glad Rockstar is taking so much shit for these games that they make. did they honestly think they wouldnt come under fire for making a game where you could kill a man by bashing his head in with a car battery or electircal box or whatever it is.
what Im getting at here, is that the ESRB really did make the right choice for this situation and if rockstar is worried that the rating will kill there sales then good. they shouldnt have made the game as violent as it is.
thats my two cents and now i gracefully bow out of the topic.

Anyone else have a problem with Denis comparing this day to black tuesday? Yes for manhunt it's really bad, but not nearly as bad as black tuesday.

It's just absolutely amazing, isn't it?


People are already trying their best to rip this game to shreds, but I've yet to see a single activist take up a picket sign against SAW or Hostel 2. Absolutely pathetic society we live in.

That's because everyone would know that person was a mental-case if they paraded up and down with a sign saying 'Ban Saw 3 - It's corrupting our society!'.

Partly it's down to familiarity with the Media format, but it's also interesting to note that someone can behave in precisely that manner about a computer game and get taken seriously.

ChrowX: I've seen Manhunt 2 commercials a few times on tv on Adult shows. So yes they definetly aren't recruiting kids, but they are advertising it all over the web and a few tv channels.

[...] Click here for Report [...]

the main problem with AO is stigmatized like X was and because of that its a ineffective rating,AO needs a reinventing like X had NC17 is a bit more common that you think and its DVD releases are called "unrated".

I think we really o need a 18+ level for games like Manhunt 2 leaving AO for "sex" games.

Wow, do they never learn? If you dont want a "bad" thing to get noticed, what should you do? A: Keep quit and dont make a fuss about it.
B: Scream and shout about how messed up your kid will be if he plays THIS game... Like its the games fault....
Sometimes a game comes along and stires ting up like this game, gta and others like them. But give it six months, nobody remembers this.
What happend about the lawsuit against Sony and gta.......?
People have to much time on their hands...
-Greetings from Oslo-

Hello all, I would like to point out that VIDEO GAMES DO NOT TEACH CHILDREN HOW TO KILL PEOPLE!!!! THEY TEACH THEM HOW TO PWN NOOBS OR PWN THE COMPUTER SO THEY CAN BEAT A LEVEL!! Games will not and have not caused violence in our world. My parents and many of my friends have lost trust in the ESRB because they rate games like Halo 2, Halo, and half-life series M. seriousely do those games even deserve and M rating? i think that no matter how violent a game is the highest rating it should receive is M and leave the AO rating to "sex" games.

I can understand that the government is trying to limit the games access to young kids by giving it a higher age rating but in doing this they are making adults suffer who wnat to play the game, by retail stores not selling the game.
Parents should be more responsible in watching what there kids play.
I played the first manhunt and thought it was dope now i have got to wait and see if i will be allowed to play manhunt 2, and im 21 years old.

Terence
well if the ESRB rated it as AO it might not even be made it might be dumbed down to M,I will give rockstar props for pushing it,its high time the world woke up and out into place a mature level headed system where adults can get their games and kids can not its that or take everyone "steaks" away because the children can not eat them think of the poor children!
bah! think of the gray bland world that sentiment creates >

Re:

There is a difference between a 17 year old and an 18 year old. Actually, it depends on the country. In Europe a 17 year old has no rights. When he turns 18 he is considered too be mature and has all the rights an adult has. So one year makes all the difference. _____ piano lessons
 
Forgot your password?
Username :
Password :

Shout box

You're not permitted to post shouts.
MechaTama31I mean, of the groups being bullied here, which of the two would you refer to collectively as "nerds"?10/19/2014 - 11:30pm
MechaTama31But that's the thing, it doesn't sound to me like he is advocating bullying, it sounds like he is accusing the SJWs of bullying the "nerds", who I can only assume refers to the GGers.10/19/2014 - 11:21pm
Andrew EisenInteresting read. Unfortunately, too vague to form an opinion on but at least now I know what faefrost was talking about in James' editorial.10/19/2014 - 10:39pm
Neo_DrKefkaBreaking GameJournoPros organized a blacklist of former Destructoid writer Allistar Pinsof for investigating fraud in IndieGoGo campaign http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2014/10/gamergate-destructoid-corruption-and-ruined-careers/10/19/2014 - 8:57pm
Neo_DrKefkaOnly good thing I seen come out of the Biddle incident was the fact a professional fighter offered to give 10k to an anti bullying charity for a round in the ring with Biddle.10/19/2014 - 7:49pm
Neo_DrKefkaEven after all the interviews she is still on twitter making fun of people with disabilities (Autism) yet she is a part of the crowd that is on the so called right side of history...10/19/2014 - 7:48pm
Neo_DrKefkaWhich #GameGate supports are constantly being harassed and bullied. Brianna Wu who I told everyone she was trolling GamerGate weeks ago with her passive aggressive threats was looking for that crazy person in the crowd.10/19/2014 - 7:47pm
Neo_DrKefkaI believe the problem #GamerGate has with Sam Biddle is he is apart of this blogging group that in a way hates or detests its readers. Also being apart of the crowd that claims its on the right side of history isn't helping when he is advocating bullying10/19/2014 - 7:45pm
MechaTama31Of course, I'm looking at these tweets in isolation, I don't know a thing about the guy.10/19/2014 - 7:06pm
MechaTama31If anything, the sarcastic implication seems to be that the SJW crowd is bringing back the bullying of nerds. But it's the GGers who are out for his blood? I'm lost...10/19/2014 - 7:01pm
MechaTama31I don't really get this Sam Biddle thing. The reaction to his tweets seems to be taking them at face value, but... they're tongue in cheek. Right?10/19/2014 - 7:00pm
Andrew EisenI have it. The problem, so far as I can tell, is neither of them allow me to overlay my webcam feed or text links to my Extra-Life fundraising page.10/19/2014 - 4:08pm
quiknkoldand yes, its free10/19/2014 - 4:05pm
quiknkoldshould grab Hauppauge capture. has mic support and can upload directly to youtube10/19/2014 - 4:05pm
Andrew EisenThe former.10/19/2014 - 4:00pm
quiknkoldwas it StreamEez, or the StreamEez feature in Hauppauge Capture? cause I know Capture has alot more support from the devs.10/19/2014 - 3:54pm
Andrew EisenI actually tried StreamEez last week. Flat out didn't work.10/19/2014 - 3:53pm
quiknkoldI use the Hauppauge Capture software's StreamEez. Arcsoft showbiz for recording. I just streamed a few hours of Persona 4 Golden with zero problem using the program. Xsplit is finniky when it comes to Hauppauge10/19/2014 - 3:40pm
Andrew EisenTrying to capture console games and broadcast with Open Broadcaster System because I've had technical difficulties using XSplit 3 weeks in a row.10/19/2014 - 3:37pm
quiknkoldand what are you trying to capture?10/19/2014 - 3:31pm
 

Be Heard - Contact Your Politician