June 25, 2007
After reading the following news report from New Zealand, we're left wondering if there was any youth crime before video games came along.As reported by Stuff, a pair of 14-year-olds from Te Puke, Bay of Plenty, led police on a high-speed chase, fired a rifle at pursuing officers and tried to steal a police car before being subdued. Said Inspector Karl Wright St. Clair:
"It was like one of those video games the kids play where they steal a car and shoot at police," said Inspector Karl Wright St Clair, of Tauranga. Asked if he was making a direct link between video games and yesterday's incident, he said: "Well, they don't come up with these things by themselves."
Mr Wright St Clair would not name the games he was referring to, but there are several on the market, including the controversial Grand Theft Auto, in which players steal cars and tear through city streets causing death and destruction.
Comments
“Well, they don’t come up with these things by themselves.”
His point being that the perpetrators here could not have originated the idea themselves. Since I see nothing in the article to indicate that these criminals were somehow mentally deficient (unwise certainly, but not mentally handicapped), I have to assume his point then is that two human beings are incapable of coming up with the thought "steal cars, shoot the police" -- They had to have gotten it from somewhere
Let's take the officer at his word and assume he's right -- that they don't come up with this stuff themselves... To do so however, one has to also carry the point as far as it goes -- that is to say, if these two humans couldn't have come up with it, and there's nothing unusual about them that would explain the lack of this ability, then one has to assume that no human could have. This means that one must accept the fact that the idea of stealing cars and shooting the police predates video games - else, how did R* make the game in the first place?
And if R* did get the idea from somewhere else... well, doesn't that then mean that video games aren't the source of the problem, but rather just one more victim of whatever it was that spawned the whole "shoot the cops and steal the cars" meme, in the first place?
Speculation as to where this meme started would be rife, in that line of reasoning, of course... Act of god, perhaps?
What you dont see is that in recent times in nz there has been alot of problems with maori youths, maoris being the african americans of nz, the abos of aussie.
Anyway there have been alot of crime lately, gangs etc so this sint a once off.
just thought you should all know
The rest of the story reads like this: The two lads were in a government run juvenile program where they learn to become self sufficient types. Horseriding, bush survival, etc. Well, these two took the horses and rode the hell out of there. Later they came to a house and swapped their horses for some sort of vehicle and armed themselves with a bolt action hunting rifle. The rest you know...two cops eventually brought them down unarmed.
So there, I don't remember any horses in GTA.
but does he talk about that... NOOOOOOO, it would kill his punchline.
because he wants to make the world think that games make kids go on a rampage... AGAIN
if he's really immitating a game than he's immitating a 18+ game, one he shouldn't even play and one his parents shouldn't allow him to play.
I'm talking to Satin tonight to plan something.
To the inspector, it's the latter thus making it a paradox since GTA and it's copycats are inspired from REAL LIFE criminal pursuits.
Whatever. It was unprofessional on his part to make such a connection.
Reporters ask leading questions all the time, if you fall for it, that's your bad. Personally, I have no problem with him drawing a similarity to the incident and games, but to outright claim that games were a direct impetus with no other information on the teens is unprofessional and irresponsible at best.
Frankly, for that reason, I think most of the posters here are not being reactionary at all, and I'm surprised you're defending this guy.
Really, aren't you more angry at the reporter who asked that leading question in the first place? All the cop did was give an off the cuff opinion. He probably had no idea how much MB traffic it'd generate for Game Politics.
I don't know about present day, but I know "Hunkley" was a name that was temporarily given to the lead character in "The Greatest American Hero" after the shooting of President Reagan. The lead character's name was originally Ralph Hinkley, hence why they changed it. Didn't do much to save the show though. :/
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
My stance on this situation is to take the evidence, none, at face value. It was a high speed chase involving the discharge of guns. I'm not going to grasp at straws like a certain cop. For all we know these kids were influenced by Starsky and Hutch, but that as well would be hearsay.
All I'm saying is don't make games a part of this until more evidence comes to light.
Part of the reason I have this stance is because the people I usually talk to are real parents. People who don't play games, yet don't necessarily blame games. Gamers lose them when we pretend our hobby is clean and harmless in much the same way as anti-gamers lose them when they blame all societies ills on gaming. These are smarter and more reasonable people than the ESRB and ECA, or Jack Thompson and LaRouche realize and they're getting tired of spin in either direction.
But we're on the same side in the end, GTA didn't cause this, so no worries.
But still, without any basis for games to be brought up there is no reason for it to be brought up. Its becoming such a common place knee-jerk scape goat that it really doesn't need any basis anymore before its thrown around. Like the LaRouch cult claiming involvement by games despite NO evidence to the contrary.
Seriously, games are about as valid in this story at this point in time as knockwurst.
Yes, I noticed that point. But I think you can be inspired by something without being "compelled" to do it. I think a deranged person can be set off by a violent video game - but that doesn't make it the game's fault.
I think it's reasonable to think these kids might have gotten the idea from GTA. Did it force them to do it? No. Is GTA to blame? No. Can a game inspire an idea? Yes.
Remember, Reagan was shot because Hunkley saw Taxi Driver and wanted to emulate his misunderstanding of the "kill the Senator, save Jody Foster, be a hero" plotline. Mark David Chapman shot Lennon because he felt Lennon was the "ultimate phony" and he'd just read Catcher in the Rye. Countless murderers found justification/inspiration for their crimes from the Holy Bible. It's pretty clear a lot of these school shootings were "inspired" by Colombine.
The common denominator is derangement, of course, and it's idiocy to ban entertainment just because a homocidal idiot might gain inspiration from it.
Not Hunkley. Hunkley is a male model, I think.
Sorry to have to break it to you, but those activities require the participation of a female. Solitary versions don't count. ;)
So, somebody had a spark of divine inspiration to steal the first car?
I remember giving my brother traffic tickets and pulling him over for speeding when we made our own series of streets in the dirt. I also vaguely remember playing doctor with a friend's sister. I can only imagine what kind of trouble playing "politician" could involve. I remember turning the ignition on my father's truck on once and rolling down a hill into some woods. Where I got that idea I couldn't tell you? Maybe watching him do it for days on end. Maybe being curious about what driving would be like.
There is no mention about the home life in the article. There is only mention that there were some stolen guns, a stolen car (that happened to be fast), two 14 year olds and an officer's opinion. There is no mention about prior juvenile crimes, records of school violence, or anything even remotely resembling an action news story. It does nothing more than sensationalize the antics of two very stupid young people with some obviously troubled lives. I wonder if it will turn out that the officer who made the comment actually plays videogames and the kids weren't allowed to by their mum. That was how the Manhunt case of the murdered child in the U.K. turned out, a big fat egg on their faces after reporting false facts to further a story.
If you notice the officer went on further to mention that they would be unable to come up with something like this themselves, which is the clincher right there. So with nothing more than it being similar to GTA he is saying that it not being connected to GTA is an impossibility as no one could think of stealing a car on their own. Without that sentence then yeah, it is alot like "one of those games".
oddly enough so has scapegoating to "protect" the masses.
Murder and theft have been around for a long time, I mean really their both mentioned on the 10 commandments, which (according to the bible) were written sometime in the Bcs, if you don't believe the bible I have other examples, like Ceaser. Now where could these guys have possibly gotten the inspiration for these heinous crimes? Possibly from nature where killing other animals is necessary to survive. So should we start an all out attack on nature then? No i don't think so.
Judging from the description of what the lads did. It is like one of those games. And maybe he's right that games gave them the idea to do it that way. That's plausible.
Where are games blamed for causing it though? Yeah, cop seems to be impying that but he fell short of actually saying so.
Oh, I'd hate to see GamePolitics get reactionary here.
well, someone first came up with it didn't they? so if 1 person can come up with it then why cant someone else. he just makes himself sound dumb.
haha you and me both
Because everyone knows that these kids arent human until 18 and are only capable of doing things showed to them by adults/ the media.
Playing video games makes you do those things in real life?
I need to play Playboy Mansion more.
:)
Nightwng2000
NW2K software
It's all these young people running around stealing cars, killing people, etc. Any responsible adult wouldn't do those things!
Simple solution BAN ALL PEOPLE UNDER 30!
Head, meet desk.
I mean, WTF?