I love how that Neo-Nazi fella said "that it was a great tragedy the axis powers lost the war."

Um, do you know which countries were part of the Axis?
One of them was Japan.

JAPAN.

The place with all the Asian (or AZN for all you l33t-sp34k euthasists) folk, remember?

So if your "superior" 'lil Aryan fellas did that war, it would mean the "inferior" 'lil "yellows" would have as well!

What then, Mr. 88? Would the "superior" fascists act like what they claim the "dirty" Jews act like, and stab their Asian allies in the back as per their ideology of White Supremacy?

@evilrockstu
No. Just the first to post about it.

People please. Racist pricks like Schutzstaffel don't need debated with. Just point and laugh at the ignorant thugs.

@Terrible Tom: "I know when I was yonger I did realize that [insert race here] power is generally a racist statement suggesting that one race is better than the other. And really its not even that statement cause I can let that slide to just being proud of their race. But its the giant swatztica on the hood of the car that really is the problem. Not to mention the other symbols of nazism as well. I was taught about the holocause and WW2 pretty early, way before I was 17."

Actually, the swastika in and of itself is a fairly harmless image; it predates the Nazi usage by centuries. In the Indian (Hindi, not Native American) language, "Swasti" means well-being of one and all, "ka" means symbol. (Ironic, isn't it?) It has been a symbol for the sun, life, fertility, prosperity, and many other positive things for centuries.

It's only because of the dramatic negative impact over such a widespread area of the world that was associated with this symbol that allowed for something that was barely a blip in history, timewise, to completely overshadow the more traditional uses. Given enough time, the emotional wounds of World War 2 will heal, and people won't knee-jerk about use of the swastika, and it may resume its original usage and meaning.

I don't know, Jack Thompson, LaRouche, StormFront, all we need now is for Fred Phelps to make a post and we've got the complete bag of assorted nuts.

I previously stated that I think the game could isssue upgrades to help this out, but then I stated that XBL has a good oportunity to solving this problem and many more that may arise without taking away "free speech"(even though free speech doesn't apply in private domains which XBL is).

My messages was killed by the racist asshole basically.

XBL could just issue a upgrade that allows users to give an offensive point to a user and you can set your account to avoid users over a certain amount of offensive points. Its a win-win situation. Nazi can keep his car and people can play without being bothered by the nazi. Sweet. But then again people will start handing out offensive points for no reasons so there has to be a way to regulate it...

From a Freedom of Speech stance.... (I hate to say this)... the car should stay. However, despite what a few people have implied, this is not really a Freedom of Speech issue. This is a User Agreement issue. Part of the XBL User Agreement states that you agree to not distribute racist imagery. Microsoft has every right to ban whoever created/used the car. Pure and simple.

However, if the didn't (or don't), I have to assume that Forza 2's online play would allow you to quit in the middle of the game, like so many other online games. If it offends you, blacklist the driver, report him, or whatever you want to do, then quit the game. Easy.

@ all those talking to the Neo-Nazi

Please don't insult him. I know what he says bothers you. It bothers me (a white male living in the South), too. If he were to get in my face on the street, I admit I would have trouble brushing him off. Yet, one of the beauties of commenting online is that you can take time to collect your thoughts. Please comment with a cool head. It gives your comments more force and power. You only bring yourself down when you insult him.

@ Schutzstaffel

As I've already stated I'm a white male living in the South. In case your not familiar with America history, The South allowed people to own slaves longer than any of the other states in the Union. They seceded from the nation after Lincoln was elected President and attacked a Northern fort. In a VERY unpopular decision, Lincoln declared war to preserve the Union. After the War, the South was home to the Ku Klux Klan (who at one point actually held a militia and had conflicts with law enforcement in several states), segregation, and Jim Crow laws.

I do not agree with your statements. I've known many intelligent African-Americans. I've held friendships with them in school and work. Never once have I thought of black people as inferior. I judge all people by their own actions. While it is true that black people are a disproportionate percentage in crime statistics, I see that as irrelevant. If fortunes were reversed, it may well have been whites who were the greater percentage of the crimes statistics. Poverty is more a factor in crime than race. Corruption and lack of a educated populace is more of a factor in Africa than race.

And I'm sure you're curious, like Sidewinder, if I would see a car that said "Black Power" or "Asian Power" as offensive. It would be just as offensive as "White Power". Anyone can be racist against anyone. It's an equal opportunity oppression.

One more thing...

Paris Hilton, Nicole Richie, Victoria Beckham, Abigail Titmuss, Jade Goody...

And you call us, the white race, enlightened?

Shutzstaffle -

Yes, I'll admit we are all ignorant to the imaginary world you see yourself living in. Funny you insult Ivresse in that manner, I was going ot previously do the same to you. A good buddy of mine, which is from Africa(here to attend college) is a very intelligent person. Not only intelligent but extremely kind. He is definately one of the most genuine individuals I've ever met. I can tell you right now he is more intelligent and decent than you are and most likely he is even more intelligent than I am(definately more decent than I am). Its hard to see what your talking about because he did come from a part of Africa that you claim white people would be at high risk at. But he even invited me to his home. Why would he invite me to a place where he would think I would be harmed? I don't actually think you've ever talked to a African or an African American. Stop pretending you know everything about them and their culture.

Nazi's are defeated by Game Politics readers.

I wish Ron Paul was black and won the primaries for hte republican party. I just can't bring myself to vote for Obama or Clinton, or any other democratic or republican candidates... But I wish he was black just so you'd throw a hissy fit over it. It would be entertaining.

Anyway I think that my proposal for the X-box live changes would fix the issue for all parties.

Lol, alright you go ahead and go with your theory and I'll go with mine. African American people seem to have more legal trouble because of laws, police and a racist society(this means you). So really the problem isn't them, its people that are supposed to be looking out for us, representing us and well you. Police, government and racists.

Your logic proves to me that your theories can't be correct cause well your an idiot. =)

ESRB rates sidewalks? I didnt know that.

"kurisu7885 Says:
July 4th, 2007 at 11:05 pm

The proper term is either native american or american Indian.

and I don’t see how stealing or conning people out of land, or worse, using bio warfare on people makes one superior."

War is War man.... no one really likes it..... wait are u taking about the Indians that got beaten..... IN A WAR!!!

Personally I believe the car should have the full right to stay on X-Box Live. It is the product of free expression, and free expression is undoubtedly a very good thing. However, I do not agree with the message that it presents. Whether or not it was done as a joke or as a serious expression of racism, I believe it was done in exceptionally bad taste. I find it sad that people, and some said people posting here, are all for freedom until someone else's expression of freedom collides with their own ideals. Anyway, my advice to anyone remotely offended by the "white power car" is to just ignore it.

I'm interested in, and rather worried to boot, about what the next step is going to be concerning all of this. Are we going to see the media blow it up, creating misconceptions such as the game is racist? Is there going to be a crackdown on user created content? How is Microsoft going to react to similar future incidents, account banning, X-Box Live suspensions, deleting or supervising user created content?

One this is for sure though, if the media does get their hands on the said topic and blows it up to be something that it's not, Microsoft is going to have to react. Microsoft will not only react, but they will be forced to "please the crowd" so to speak and things could start looking rather stark for gamers.

Unfortunately more than ever now, it seems, video games have been getting a lot of negative attention and this is only one more strike against it. If only gaming could get the same equal treatment as other forms of entertainment...

@Schutzstaffel

You see it is not color or race that separates people, but rather intelligence. I do not believe that everybody is created equal, however I do believe in equal rights for every person. See, to say that everybody is created equally would be to say that you are my equal, which is a rather nauseating, irritating, and insulting thought. You and your kind are scum, and are exceptionally inferior to myself and many, many of the above posters who possess a mental acuity that you and your kind may never grasp. Myself and others alike unite behind a luminosity that reaches farther than your crude comprehension, and piss poor ideals. My advice to you is to stop spreading your propaganda here, nobody else here shares a mental caliber as shallow as your own so piss off.

"I would not consider those who founded American society as you know it “scum” and “traitors”. Thats right, those who got rid of the indians were as you would call them, “racists”."

The proper term is either native american or american indian.

and I don't see how stealing or conning people out of land, or worse, using bio warfare on people makes one superior.

@Schutzstaffel:

As proud as I may be of my race (as previously stated, I'm about as pasty white as you can get), I simply can't bring myself to hate, dislike, or even disrespect any other race because of it. As a matter of fact, I hope they're all proud of who they are too.

Furthermore, even if we pretend (for the sake of argument) that whites ARE the "master race", I still don't understand why on earth you would want to oppress or even exterminate everyone else. Wouldn't it make so much more sense to use your superior intellect (or other superior white features -- I'm not too familiar with the usual neonazi rhetoric) to help other races wherever you can, or at worst, remain smug in your superiority and leave them alone?

I mean, I don't go out of my way to tell dogs and cats that I'm better than them -- it would just make me look less secure in my own superiority -- and even if I was a racist, I would never feel threatened by the prospect of any "inferior" race trying to reach my level, because I would assume that unless he/she was greatly above average (in which case the person would no longer qualify as inferior), failure would be certain.

The end result is that white power groups make whites look petty, insecure, and unnecessarily hateful. Furthermore, while you may be different, the multitude of white power sites that I've seen online seem to strongly support the stereotype of the sleep-with-ma-sister-to-keep-the-race-pure neonazi, and I have a hard time identifying ANYONE who lives in a trailer park as a herald of the master race.

P.S. Hitler was crazy. He may have had SOME good ideas, and he may have done SOME good things for Germany, but he got too greedy... and too cruel. He should have stopped and sued for peace after taking Poland, Austria and Czechoslovakia at most, and if he really did believe that the Jews were a problem, he should have set up Israel himself (or with the help of other antisemitic powers... like Britain, for example). They would have left Germany of their own volition if given somewhere to go, and while the world was horrified at the death camps, there was enough lingering antisemitism in Allied nations that I doubt they would have objected to an initiative that would see their Jewish populations leaving voluntarily as well.

As a Londoner, I can safely say that Hitlers arrogance was the one thing that won the War for the Allied forces, his obsession with the Blitz, despite the advice of his higher echelons allowed the RAF and USAF to grind the Luftwaffe to a pulp.

Now, it's pretty obvious that very few, if any of the members of these Neo-Nazi organisations lived during World War 2, and have no clue of the reality of it, but if Hitler had been the genius they think him to be he would have won, but he didn't, he killed himself whilst cowering in a Bunker in Berlin, or possible the Russians shot him. Either way, as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, Hitler was so 'succesful' that his pudding ended up being made of lead and self-served at high velocity. Not the more awe-inspiring exit.

1. No, it's not 50% of the crime, it's 50% of the crime reported. The problems of under-reporting, mistaken identity and stereotyping mean that all crime statistics should be treated with caution. Something which you obviously don't.

2. Great leader? The idiot went to battle on two fronts by invading Russia at the same time as fighting the rest of Europe! Didn't he learn anything from Napoleon Bonaparte? Obviously not.

3. Far as I'm concerned, the only reason he did an ethnic cleansing of the Jews is because he caught syphyllis from a Jewish prostitute.

4. Because you're racist, and as far as I'm concerned, all racists are not the evolution of humanity, but are nothing more than degenerate scum and traitors of humanity who do nothing but follow the ideals of a man who shot himself when he realised how much of a hole he had dug himself into.

5. I never said you did, just that most of the people who think like you are. Learn2read.

6. Not really in full control of your mind though, are you?

Anyway, enough blabbering. Let's just stick to the fact that as far as I and most others are concerned, you and everyone who thinks like you are not enlightened, but are mere degenerates and scumbags who, thankfully, will be as likely to succeed in their goals as Hitler was with his...

Is it only me that sees the irony in the picture of the offending content in question now being posted all over the internet?

@Ivresse

LOL Yeah, I agree, there are few things more painful than the Spice Girls singing

I must admit, I hear a lot of 'But the Media covers it up' bandied around, in fact, I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge various organisations have that have never been released or published in any form...

Life can get very confusing if you take the world purely by what the Media isn't telling you.

Hmm - I feel a similar sharing system should be implemented on PSN.
That way, I can get my hands on this car.

I hear many of you people insult WNs, and hurl slurs at Neo-Nazis - ptsh, I seriously wonder if the car had 'Black Power' if it got the same reception.
Now, some of you say "ofcourse, its still a ToS violations", but seriously, would it? I do not think so. If lucky, it would be quietly disposed of by Microsoft, but it would definately not be spoken about. It seems our society has turned against its own race. Hmph. What a depressing world we live in. I really hope our society realises it before its too late (perhaps it already is).

If you are one of the more enlightened individuals, please visit our site at: stormfront.org.

Heil !

Nazi car not offensive,"Fill in the blank"power car offensive, next.
Why is white power or black power for that matter offensive and women/female/girl power or nerd power not?

'White power' is an affiliated slogan of the Klu Klux Klan, which in case you didn't know, is an organisation dedicated to the segregation of black society from white society using any means possible, including violence.

Some, though not all, Black Power adherents believed in racial separation, black nationalism, and the necessity to use violence as a means of achieving their aims.

Girl power is a slogan of the Spice girls...and as far as I'm aware the only criminal thing they've done is sing...

I don't support stuff like this, but would there be the same opposition if the car had a black power theme?

I do think the Microsofts' Terms of Service are very limited to be honest, if you follow it to the letter, it would be possible to make a car that says, for example, 'Kill all Heterosexuals!', and it would be perfectly fine, I prefer a more blanket covering rather than Microsofts 'Politically Targetted' one.

Ban Forza!
Has JT gotten on this yet? Remember the Sims pedophilia thing he was ranting about a while back?

Trolls will be trolls, there is no escaping them no matter where they are. Its better to just report them or ignore them and move on. But if i do happen to run across a car such as that, it would want me to put them into the wall just that much more. It's not the message it self that offends me, go ahead say what you want i don't care. It's just the context that it's done in that jostles my nerves. Obviously it was done to just get a buzz going and nothing more.

@konrad_arflane:
I know that depiction of swastika is forbidden in Germany, but what I wrote has nothing to do with that.

i may hate Illinois Nazis, but this isn't about their "right" to speech.

everyone signs an agreement when using XBL to NOT do exactly what this creation does.

they could have signed an agreement to not talk about argyle socks, and if they made an argyle sock car, they should get thrown out.

it's not about the content as speech, it's about the content as a violation to the user agreement.

I donno, can't say much> I make shock cars just to sell.

My white power car looked cooler, and I sold it for almost 100k per go.

If people want it why not

ZeRu said:

"I wonder how long will pass before all driving games are declared as “killerspiele” in Germany."

I wonder what they're gonna do about this specific download. AFAIK, the distribution of Nazi propaganda and/or symbols is illegal in Germany.

a black white power car?

"Well let me figure that one out…you’re saying that banning them won’t curtail their freedom of expression? Imagine for a moment that it’s the real world and someone gets kicked out of a political rally for voicing an unpopular opinion. Or imagine someone gets suspended from school for wearing a certain tshirt or having the wrong hairstyle. Or imagine someone makes a game and the censor doesn’t approve it. I know it’s a stretch, but these things could one day happen."

Could and already has, my dear friend... in fact, just about all of those have happened.

If I recall, Michael Moore's movies have a tough time finding a distributer because they have some kind of anti-American or anti-President Bush message. As for the t-shirt thing, my grade school banned t-shirts if they were considered offensive. As for the 3rd statement... have you ever heard of Ryan Lambourne?

I think it's funny. Besides, wouldn't it be all that more fun to beat that car in a race?

This is great. Practically every other post on GamePolitics is greeted by "OMG FREE SPEECH LAWS STOP CENSORSING US JOO BASTARDS", this one is all "Uh yeah, I'm a concerned citizen, free speech is one thing but these people should be banned".

Wonderful, fellas. Keep it up.

There is racism in the world, an unfortunate fact. It will be spread by different means by those who have these reprehensible ideals. If you give them a pen and paper, they will draw a swastika. Give them a canvas and paint, the same thing. Give them a typewriter and they will write some bile-filled diatribe about who they hate.

This is just a new media that has unfortunately been used in this way. I don't see what the big fuss is about this is. At least here you can ignore or report the person.

Where would a limitation be exactly?

Should there be a limitation as to "what is appropriate" in user design?

Some are saying the game is rated E. But that designs for the purpose of implying, if not directly spreading, bigotry should be considered rated M.

Suppose the message were "Gay Pride" or "Pro-Life (Anti-Abortion)/Pro-Choice (Pro-Abortion)" or "Peace, not War" or "Death to Terrorists" or any number of messages. Heck, even "Mickey Mouse in '08".

And if the user content should change the rating to M simply because of a short message or slogan, what does that say about other exposures in life? People say that the interactive nature of video games makes them different from movies, books, tetc. But the messages on the video games aren't "interactive". They're "billboards" as much as a book would be. And if that should be so, then shouldn't religious teachings that including bigoted statements change the religious teaching from a "Rated E" type service to a "Rated M" service? If bigotry on a billboard can change an appropriateness for children level, why shouldn't it then apply everywhere else?

I'm just arguing this as a matter of consistancy.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

And you all know that you know who is going to call this hardcoded game data...

Just keep reporting these guys. Eventually, they will be banned.
And if you are a host, simply kick them out of the game and report them.

Yea I'm not saying they have to scan every single peice of use submitted material(i pointed out that it would be millions of them above). I simply am suggesting that say you came across a nazi car such as this... couldn't you have an option that let you select the users name, flag such material for offensive content, and then have someone check it out to see what the problem is. I guess if the images are coming from the users hard drive and not a server it would probably be difficult or impossible to do that.

I know when I was yonger I did realize that [insert race here] power is generally a racist statement suggesting that one race is better than the other. And really its not even that statement cause I can let that slide to just being proud of their race. But its the giant swatztica on the hood of the car that really is the problem. Not to mention the other symbols of nazism as well. I was taught about the holocause and WW2 pretty early, way before I was 17.

Unfortunately, exploiting a system is a very 'human' thing to do, which is why Laws tend to have to be written in an extremely complex manner. It's harder for gaming companies, you can't really scan Bitmaps to make sure the content is 'acceptable' without using a human to actually look at every map that is submitted.

I suppose that's the thing though, if you are providing a purely online service for younger children, then you need to have some kind of human 'point of reference' available. The problem is, especially younger players may not even realise that the 'White Power' symbolisation is offensive.

I suppose the only way you could really be able to get away with this is to submit each new texture-job to Microsoft for 'validation' before you can use it online, but that, in and of itself, is still just another layer of 'censorship'. In reality, it's a lose-lose situation for Microsoft as long as these people get attention.

Anybody else getting that de-ja-vu feeling?

Yea especially if they are neo-nazi. lol

GoodRobotUs- Does Forza have Mini's in it? You could make a Honkey pride car.(playing off the myth that caucasians are "small") Ya know, fight fire with fire.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. Admittedly, I'm about as white as you can get (very pale skin, blue eyes, predominantly English ancestry), but still... even if it was targeted at me, I'd laugh it off as an amusingly well-made troll.

I suppose it's *possible* that the guy who made this actually is a neo-nazi, but it's far more likely that he's just a bored teenager trying to get a rise out of the internet in a somewhat creative manner.

*hangs head in shame for gamers, his race, and humanity in general that such people exist within the above*

sexual blond girl...

Thanks. I gave a link of this letter in my blog....