Concerning the location fees for film, TV. There is a difference between the physical use of the location and the image of the location. If a film were to show a location without filming there, e.g., by shooting in the 'wrong' location or by building sets or using CGI and bluescreen, they don't have to pay a location fee to the location depicted. Gladiator, for example, didn't have to pay fees to Rome because they never filmed there in the first place. The Colosseum shown in the film was a combo of a set and CGI.

In an addition to that, you can choose one from both sides. Or I would suggest? Saving one of these sides from the brink of madness?

Yes, the stormfront poster made a similar post to the one you just made. But exchange terrorism with crime and religions with black. Of course a more matching comparison would be the comments Jack Thompson made about the muslim faith. Congrats on sharing an opinion with that whack job.

Its really a waste of effort to debate with someone like Clyde Wyman. It will get you about as far as debating against racism at a Klan rally. The best thing to do is give them a pat on the head and wait for them to go away.

@Clyde

"Indonesian Muslims have taken a survey at the 10th July 2007 which is today, my boy. And damn, most of them voted that it is okay to kill, harm or maim non-Muslims and even supported Osama for his so-called “holiness”. Can you imagine that? Absurdities can brainwash people into committing atrocities."

Hehe... could have told you that without the aid of a survey, which is probably a fair bit biased, but meh. You're right, though- it's absurd that Osama would be referred to as "holy"... one does not get to be holy be twisting religious texts and zealotry. In Bali, it seems, the judicial system is crap and converting to Islam might as well be a get-out-of-jail-free card. As for the bombings of clinics, haven't heard of any of them recently and I gladly (and with much relief) assure you that such incidents are not supported but condemned by the vast majority of the Christain and non-Christain population.

On another note, I belive the comic book series "Battle Pope" would be right up your alley... it's blasphemerrific!
^_^

Clyde, have you considered making a religion hate car in Forza 2 to go along with the white power car?

Where's all the commotion regarding the White House being featured in Hitman: Blood Money? You assassinate the vice-president, Cheney should be all over that claiming it's a death threat towards him.

>>> Church of England officials remain outraged

Then to hell with them. Who cares? What do they want? A sacrifice? The programmers burned at the stake? In the name of PR, Sony appeased the Church's little fairy tales, and that's that.

Religious leaders, given the violent and oppressive history of most religions, should really STFU and keep their heads down, because most people I know have just about had it with them- be they exploding Muslims or Christians getting elected and imposing their will on others. People are going to start running for office on strong separation of Church/State platforms, an winning.

And the game takes place in a parallel universe, so the whole controversy is over NOTHING.

[...] I’ve refrained from commenting thus far on the Manchester Cathedral “controversy,” largely because it seems fairly evident to me that the Anglican officials in question are trying to milk it for all it’s worth.  I was amused, however, to read that they’ve recently issued a “code of conduct” for games using religious buildings as a setting.  So what exactly do games owe to the settings they expropriate? [...]

Clyde.

Hate much? And to be honest, you're acting no better than the CoE.

Anyway, being a Christian myself, I find this whole thing absurd. If anything, they should be flattered that the developers took the time to make a reproduction of the building in the game. Guess the present clergy are just greedy.

Rev Rogers Govender
............................................... historic sites can be parodied,you might not like it but thats the law you sir jsut want a pulpit to toto thumb and blow smoke while begging for money to shut up.

you sir are a hypocrite and a lair,get a life and go back to herding your sheeple.

Okay.....two things:

1) Any portrayal of something in real life does not constitute as the actual representation in a videogame.

2) No one bothered to get angry at the inaccurate portrayal of Ancient Greece in God of War.

@Tulang, the use fees movie and TV productions have to pay have more to do with the PHYSICAL use of the space. They're compensating the owner of the space for removing it from its intended use for the duration of the filming.

Obviously video games don't actually physically use any of the spaces depicted in them, so no such fee is necessary.

@Clyde

just to be picky ^_^

...Weren't you yourself saying that Catholic priests were raping/molesting children, including underage boys? Wouldn't that be a direct contradiction of this other statement of your's?:
"And oh, may we not forget homophobia in Christianity?"

Meh, go ahead and get pissed off. I thought you already were but seeing as how you can't do didley squat over the net, please, by all means. Also, I don't believe that I forced anything at all on you. Here's a funny little question: If Christains hate and despise and desire to kill and destroy those who do not share the same beliefs as they do, and if I am a Christain myself, then why do I have and love and Pagan girlfriend? You really can't just sum up an entire group of people and assume that they're all bad because of various "atrocities" of the past, especially if you haven't done research on said people. Have a good one ^_^

"To Brokenscope,

Yeah, that too. I have seen countless of news that bishops raped children of their own so-called “holy faith”. Those Christians calling themselves the true “do-gooders”? Let me guess, Hitler, being a Lutheran Christian, killed 6 millions of Jews in the Holocaust because Jewish faith is incomplete in Christianity. And errr, the Ku Klux Klan also a Christian group, kills the black people because they think that white people are closer to God than black people and also have a thought that the latter is an abomination to God.

Haha, maybe these will give you a very good idea of a so-called “compassionate” religion? "


Its funny you should mention the KKK. Because your little hate speech here is right up there with their ramblings on the "atrocities" committed by blacks and jewish people.

@Clyde

You mean the catholic Church don't you?

I am so sick to death of hearing about these religious freaks bitching & crying. They need to get themselves a fucking life & piss off out of everyones damn face. The gaming industry will do what ever the bloody hell it likes & a bunch of delusional zealots are never going to change that. Deal with it & fuck off.

Fuck the Catholic Church & fuck the Manchester Cathedral. I DO NOT give a shit.

Mike, the Catholic church aren't actually involved...it's Church of England which is a protestant religion...

I was thinking. If a mod community dedicated themselves to recreating manchester church in every FPS game there is. There would be nothing they could do about it because there wouldn't be a company to be held responsible. In the end they would just wish they kept quiet as it would have been just Resistance otherwise.

To treydawg,

"some one do a manchester church level for counter-strike source. make the reverend a hostage."

I agree! You should know how I much I damn hate Christianity! Let me ask you, who are the people who kills innocent people because they are non-believers, it is the Christians! Who are the people who imprisoned Galileo because of his scientific views? It was the Christians! And I hate them!

Christians still don't even understand that their own moral codes are wrong. No amount of prayers or good deeds can cover up for your own sins, not even Jesus can save you from your misery because, he is a vindictive person and a megalomaniac!

So to the people of Church of England, how stupid are you!

I know this comment will more or less go ignored, but where's that Super Columbine Massacre guy and the V-Tech Rampage kid when we could use them? This would make perfect fodder for a parody game... Hmm oh well.

Thats it. These smug assholes are gonna get it. I am going to learn to make a game that is just you and a rocket launcher and the outside of their Church. I will call it "Payback: Smug Assholes Getting What They Diserve".

"1. Respect our sacred spaces as places of prayer, worship, peace, learning and heritage."

Bullshit. You were the ones who burned thousands of Pagans after the CoE was formed to get popular support from the masses (who you wanted to convirt from Catholicism). Oh, and if they didnt convirt, you killed the Catholics too.

"2. Do not assume that sacred space interiors are copyright free."

I lost count on how many movies use sacred spaces as practicaly firing ranges for bad guys. You hipocracy knows no bounds. Hence the "smug asshole" comment.

"3. Get permission from the faith leaders who are responsible for the building interiors you want to clone."

And who would be the faith leader. The priest? The bishop? The fucking Queen of England? Who would you consider your leader? On top of that, is there any legal reason to go to the top? I am sure SONY did their homework and just backed down because you just happened to take advantage of a popular scapegoat in order to get easy cash by bitching like a choir boy sitting on your lap (and not in the good way... in his opinion).

"4. Support the work of those engaged in resisting the culture of gun crime and those involved in promoting the work of conflict resolution."

Wow, someone is a smug asshole today. How about this, SONY gets to make any game it damn well pleases and you and the dickless politician that gave you the scapegoat idea to get easy money can go to hell. Your hell. Because I am already in my hell having to listen to this crap. You know, Wrath may be a deadly sin, but so is GREED! That is all this is about, greed. Because I have yet to hear the same outcry over one of the many movies that have shootouts in churches. Movies make guns look cooler than videogames can, because the actors dont mess up and hit 10 people with 9 bullets. In game, you can mess up and miss. Hypocracy at work.

Well, if I made a video game, I'm not too concerned about what a church may or may not think.

The plain fact is, some buildings are excellent virtual playgrounds for FPS games. The Getty museum in southern Kali-phone-iya comes to mind...

The Church of England are hypocrites, considering that the Church was founded by King Henry VIII, who founded it because he wanted to divorce his first wife because she couldn't give birth to a boy, and the Catholic Church wouldn't grant him one. Then King Henry VIII had most of his other wives killed for the same reason.

What makes me laugh is that, apparently, if you are in a field hospital during a war, and you are armed, and the enemy break in and start killing the patients, apparently, if that hospital is a Holy place of some sort, the Christian thing to do is stand back and let them be slaughtered...

@Jabrwock

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. You see, I wasn't clear on copyright law in the U.K., but I at least figured it would be hard for the CoE to sue Sony over this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clone

You know, no where in that definition do I see "clone" meaning to use the image(s) of a real world location in the setting of a fictional world location.

Oh, and People in glass chapels... so forth and so on.

@ Tulang
It is true, but artists of any type, gaming or conventional, can use public space without a fee because it is both public and they can easily do it without disturbing or having to block off parts of said public area. I don't think that artists or game designers should need to pay a fee if they don't have to disturb anything in doing so. All we are seeing is zealocy and religious corruption. We all know that the church officials don't completely mean what they are saying, they want money and power. But as long as Sony doesn't give in any more than they have, then there is no problem. The CoE can scream and complain until they are blue in the face, but as long as the citizens and corporations do what's legal and buy the types of games they want, all religions aren't going to get everything they want

It's only a matter of time before mods of the church are made for other FPS games, out of spite of course.

Concerning the edicts, I'd expect the same response out of any religion that was emulated in a fairly popular game without permission. The response from the Church of England could just as easily have been the Vatican, Islamic mosques, Mormon tabernacles, etc.

The bigger issue being highlighted here is the fact game developers don't pay a use fee. Film and television have to pay a fee in order to use a location, New York for instance or Shang Hai in MI3, but the gaming industry is not required by law to. This sort of clash of interest simply highlights the fact that our copyright laws need to be update on a consistent basis.

Whatever muscle is used to prevent swearing, it's getting one helluva workout right now. Just who do these people think they are? Take your moral pandering elsewhere. And I think by #4, they really mean, "give us some money".

Kiss my agnostic ass, you hypocritical fucks.

Damn, guess that muscle needs more work.

"We as a Cathedral Chapter deplore all forms of violence and would urge game makers to consider avoiding the production of violent games if at all possible." this sounds more like influential censorship.

"We have seen the British Board of Film Classification ban Manhunt 2 because it would in their view involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks to both adults and minors." I understand keeping MH 2 away from children, but it sounds are they implying that adults are as dumb as children?

@ Soga

The bible can kiss my ass. It's a book written by man to keep man in line, that is all. Believing in God is not a bad thing necessarily, even I believe in some form of God, but religion is bad. Especially these sorts of religions who feel they somehow deserve special treatment, despite already getting tax brakes from the government. After all, what a better way to beat taxes than to be part of a church? L. Ron Hubbard figured that out. Religion is a fraud.

Would it be completely blasphemous to tell the entire church of England to "Go to Hell"? -.- Jerks.

1. Respect our sacred spaces as places of prayer, worship, peace, learning and heritage.

And how does the Resistance fail at this? I haven't played the game, but from what I hear the Cathedral is a field hospital in the story. That's a place I think is consistent with "peace" (i.e. healing people) and is consistent with records of useage of religous places as such hospitals in both World Wars.

2. Do not assume that sacred space interiors are copyright free.

Fair enough. Of course, the jury is still out on whether the Cathedral in the game resembles the Cathedral in real-life enough to justify legal action.

3. Get permission from the faith leaders who are responsible for the building interiors you want to clone.

This is the one requirement I agree with. Assuming the other party is reasonable (a requirement the CoE fails), it would be an act of good will. Of course, this should apply to ALL real-life spaces across ALL entertainment mediums. There's no excuse to single out churches or video games in that regard.

4. Support the work of those engaged in resisting the culture of gun crime and those involved in promoting the work of conflict resolution.

This is an odd condition. Are they implying that Sony has been actively against such measures up till this point? Or, are they just bringing out the tired "video games cause violence" rhetoric. I'm betting on the latter, and if that is the case, nobody should agree to it because it is a tacit way of trying to reinforce that lie.

Give me a break. We all know the church just wants a cut of the profits. Jesus demands money in mass quantities.

Someone ask the honorable reverend, if it would be ok to stage a video game fighting the forces of Satan in his church. Pastors equipped with crosses, holy water and other instruments of holy destruction dishing it out with demons, devils and other ungodly creatures.

No bloodshed in churchs, only in foreign countries.

The British government is not a good thing to be looking up to, especially by a Christian. But nonetheless, being a Christian myself, I fail to see anything wrong with violent video games. If we're going to play that game, might as well sue newspapers for reporting violent situations.

1) It's a game, nobody is actually wielding a knife or gun in real life.
2) There are BOOKS with MUCH more violence depicted in them, and yet nobody wants to ban these books.

Of course, motive plays a huge role in determining whether you should be allowed to play these games.

And Rob, your comment is in poor taste, the Bible condemns that kind of behavior. These sodomizing priests you're referring to are being inconsistent with their beliefs (Christianity).

2. Do not assume that sacred space interiors are copyright free.

Unless there's something about international copyright law I don't know about, or if that interior space was completely renovated, it would probably fall into the public domain by now. I'm not a lawyer, and thus can't comment if there's actually another angle that covers the inside of the church.

4. Support the work of those engaged in resisting the culture of gun crime and those involved in promoting the work of conflict resolution.

Unless they are thinking about a "stand still while you get shot at by monsters/terrorists" game, this is moot. You could claim that video games encourage the sin of Wrath, but it's really encouraging Pride as various organizations demand that it be taken off shelves, etc

Well, it's a lot easier to sit in your Church and judge others than actively try to help deal with the problem in the first place. It's things like computer games being palmed off as 'excuses' that lead to a more accepting attitude on violence, because people are given things to blame their own actions on...

"The Church says that I shot that man because of Video games, not because I'm an evil, violent bastard who's been robbing houses since I was 7'.

"because it would in their view involve a range of unjustifiable harm risks to both adults and minors."


I really wish people would extrapolate on what this risks and harm is rather than just hinting at it. Proof please as to this harm.