August 27, 2007
The Manhunt 2 fallout continues as California State Sen. Leland Yee (D) issues a call for the ESRB to explain its about-face on Manhunt 2 and backs an earlier demand for a federal investigation into the matter.Yee, of course, is the architect of California's 2005 video game law, which was recently declared unconstitutional by a federal judge. In a just-issued press release, Yee said:
Parents can’t trust a rating system that doesn’t even disclose how they come to a particular rating. The ESRB and Rockstar should end this game of secrecy by immediately unveiling what content has been changed to grant the new rating and what correspondence occurred between the ESRB and Rockstar to come to this conclusion. Unfortunately, history shows that we must be quite skeptical of these two entities.
Clearly the ESRB has a conflict of interest in rating these games. It is time to bring transparency to this rating system and for the industry to be held accountable. I join the [Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood] in urging the Federal Trade Commission to investigate the process by which Manhunt 2’s rating was downgraded from AO to M.
Comments
honestly, what do they expect, an edited game is resubmitted and rerated, this is what they wanted for the excessive violence to be removed. goddamn hypocrites make me sick.
...I'm going to take a stab and say the MPAA isn't applicable to this claim by some twist of fate.
August 27th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
“Parents can’t trust a rating system that doesn’t even disclose how they come to a particular rating.”
…I’m going to take a stab and say the MPAA isn’t applicable to this claim by some twist of fate.
Of course not. Movies don't make kids kill people. Video games do.
For once, I agree, but for a different reason. I would like to know what R* cut out in order to drop the rating, but that's just because I want to know how big a change it was to go from "most heinous game ever" to "we can sell this to 17 year olds again". Of course I'd also like to know what scenes movies cut in order to avoid NC-17 ratings, but I doubt Yee would demand that of the MPAA... /rolleyes
And I really don't see this conflict of interest. The ESRB collects it's fees WHETHER OR NOT the game eventually gets published. They don't get a "cut" if a game hits the market, nor do they lose financially if it doesn't.
His ignorance knows no bounds. The ESRB has no more conflict of interest in rating games than the MPAA does in rating movies.
Yeah, I was just about to say the same thing... Where does this supposed "conflict of interests" come from?
This from the same guy who, during the Star Jones interview, thought that there were no parental controls on the consoles. Sheesh...
You can over-see the process once you get your unconstitutional law passed. Until then, STFU.
"Unfortunately, history shows that we must be quite skeptical of these two entities."
Not really. History has shown in overwheling evidence that people should be skeptical of government officials. Especially when they try to tread over the Constituion.
You beat me to it.
I have to aggree with the others who have pointed out that there is no transparency in the movie ratings. I am sick and tired of politicians and their double standard.
Generic Politician - "Wah! Our kids are playing M rated games."
Sane Gamer - "What about them watching R rated movies"
GP - "Wah! Our kids are playing M rated games"
SG - "You didn't answer my question. What about R rated movies"
GP - "Wah! Our kids are playing M rated games"
SG - "This is going nowhere. Here's your sign. Good-bye."
See where I am going with this. No matter what we do or say to debate this issue, these types of people will stick with their single minded agendas regardless of how much it is shot down and countered.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
So what? History shows we can't trust China, he's Chinese, so let's no trust him! Idiot. If everyone drew strawmans like him, we'd be back in the age of the KKK.
Also, this should have NOTHING TO DO WITH PARENTS. Who cares if parents can't trust a rating system? A 17-year old is mature enough to decide what video games he plays and should be mature enough not to be influenced by them; that is what an M rating IS, you tool. This is the difference between a 17-year old buying a game and an 18-year old buying a game.
There shouldn't be such a huge controversy over one fucking game. If a film was initially rated 18 and then downgraded to 15 for the final release (using the UK system here), would there be a huge uproar? Of course not! So why do out of touch politicians, 'doctors', 'lawyers', and fat, useless parents and menopausal old hags insist on attacking games although they have no idea what they're talking about? Because they're all fucking stupid. Argh! Mandatory euthanasia for anyone who says anything stupid regarding video game censorship, it really is the only way to stop the tidal wave of bullshit that I have to suffer every fucking day.
The pot calling the kettle black right?
FUD best way get re-elected
Why is he so against the ESRB? What did they ever do to him?
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
You know, I'm fairly certain that the MPAA doesn't put out press releases about the specifics of why it gave a movie a certain rating.
"I join the [Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood] in urging the Federal Trade Commission to investigate the process by which Manhunt 2’s rating was downgraded from AO to M."
Again, let me save the tax payers their hard earned dollars and explain for you. R* trimmed off what content was considered over the top and resubmitted the game to the ESRB. That was enough to bring it under the ceiling of what the ESRB is willing to call an M rating. End of story. The same thing that happens a bajillion times a year in games and movies: the ratings board says "Ok, this gets this rating." the creator says "but that's not the rating I want!" the board says "Ok, well feel free to resubmit after you've edited so that it'll actually match your desired rating. In the meantime, next!"
"Why is he so against the ESRB? What did they ever do to him?"
Undermine his fear mongering by existing and doing it's job well?
Seriosuly, the ESRB cannot and will not say what was in the game before they dropped it to an M. Its very simple, wait for the game to come out this Halloween and see for yourself.
What backtracking are you talking about? Have you been paying as little attention as the CCFC and Mr. Yee? R* edited the game and resubmitted it. The new version got rated M. How the hell is rating a censored version lower "backtracking"?
I'm an inneffective politician who wastes taxpayer dollars and now they're wondering what I've been doing all this time while pushing for unconstitutional laws! So I'm going to make some apparently bold public statement that makes it seem as if I'm working, when in fact it just shows what a hypocrit I am!
Someone call the wahmbulance please, we've got a crybaby-one alert!
As far as Yee goes, they swapped certs on Transformers (the movie) from R to PG-13 admittedly without a single edit, simply because of Michael Bay's industry clout. Why wasn't he shitting all those bricks on the steps of congress then? Oh, that's right, he's a pandering idiot.
That's how the ESRB works. Publishers provide footage of the game that shows off the general tone, gameplay, and the most extreme moments.
Any people on here from Yee's district? Get this moron recalled, it's obvious he's inept and shouldn't be in his position. Make the effort, throw out the trash and take back your government from these ignorant, fear mongering, assholes.
Gamers so need to get our own party started. The pirates have their own, we need one too.
Right, which is my point, we already know exactly what happened, so who gives a shit? Besides Leland "/wrists" Yee, that is.
I mean, AO rating means you should be 18 or older. M rating means 17 and older...
Do they really think 1 year is that bad? I mean, regardless of the AO rating or the M rating, its still warns against children playing the game. The only real difference is that instead of being only available on-line or at Adult Book Stores...it can be carried at Wal-mart...where you are still I.D.d to buy it.
I simply don't see the point.
Now if it went from AO to Teen then yeah, I'd see the concern. But its not...so what is he trying to prove?
Yeeehaa!
"Not to burst anyone’s bubble, but when it comes to movie ratings, at least at the theater I worked at when I was younger, we had a book at the box office that had a list of everything that happned in a movie that influenced its rating."
That'd actually be pretty awesome.
-P
Is it just me, or does this smack of the time Jack Thompson demanded and advance copy of Bully to 'review' it?
Well on that note, how about Yee take his foot out his mouth. The MPAA doesn't disclose how it rates games. It doesn't even disclose who its' raters are (we needed the documentary, "This Film Is Not Yet Rated" for that and we still don't know how they rate). So on that note, if they can't trust the ESRB ratings board, then we can't trust the MPAA ratings board.
"Unfortunately, history shows that we must be quite skeptical of these two entities."
How so? As far as I can tell, History has shown the ESRB has had a probe deep into the far reaches of Take Two and subsidiary companies since 2005 (aka: Hot Coffee).
"Clearly the ESRB has a conflict of interest in rating these games. It is time to bring transparency to this rating system and for the industry to be held accountable. I join the [Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood] in urging the Federal Trade Commission to investigate the process by which Manhunt 2’s rating was downgraded from AO to M."
You know, I'd rather not have more tax dollars wasted on policing an industry which doesn't need it. Perhaps put those tax dollars to better use, for say... Where's our promised 100mbps to homes nationwide, including rural areas, by 2007? How about having the FTC investigate those whom violated that little tid-bit or the little tid-bit known as net nuetrality? Let's put those Tax dollars to actual good usage.
Anyway, at this point, I'm sorely tempted to say something about the Pot and the Kettle...
Seriously, what are we gamers going to do about it? We have all these guys coming out and attacking games, but only a few defending. We are part of one of the largest industries in the entertainment business. Our numbers are staggering!
We need more people going on t.v. and refuting these claims. And we don't even need scientific studies to prove our point!
These games are intended for adults. They are marketing towards adults and are designed for adults. Whether or not Yee likes the changes that were put into the game, the ESRB is the ones that cleared it.
I mean, lets say Yee doesn't like what was cut. Isn't that a personal opinion towards him? And with that being said, who died and made him ruler of all thats moral?
So, fellow GP readers...what are we going to do about this? What CAN we do about this?
If PETA can rally together members to stand outside a KFC all day to picket, I'm sure us gamers can come up with something as well.
Anyway it seems to me that the only reason they would want to know this is so they could use it as an excuse to bash rockstar and the ESRB, probably blow the whole thing out of proportion to another Hot Coffee (think about it, most of the ingredients are still there, the only thing missing is a modder to discover the deleted content, but they are just trying to replace that with the government).
Anyway, now for some humor
"The video game industry has time and time again said it should be compared to the movie industry, but when the movie industry releases a DVD they usually have deleted scenes as part of the special features. We demand that Rockstart release these deleted scenes to the public so that we may watch the sick slow motion brutal killing over and over again (why do you think we give this stuff so much free publicity).
Or you can look at it as
"We demand Rockstar release to the public, what even the industry thought was way too violent for anyone but adults. We firmly believe that doing this will help shield the exact same kids from the exact same content we don't want them to see. We want to know what the ESRB finds inappropiate even though we will never create a video game, and we will still complain that they are not strict enough regardless of what they do."
And finally:
"We want to Rockstar to release what was cut from the game so that Hollywood may take those ideas and put them in next year's horror movies. Our writers are running out of ideas on what people find disturbing and would like to see what rockstar came up with knowing that they (the movie industry) could make stuff twice as bad and no one would complain."
Or maybe he is refering to his own law, you know, the one that isn't.
"Anyway, at this point, I’m sorely tempted to say something about the Pot and the Kettle… "
I think you did quite well and I am in total agreement. Such a waste of time, tax dollars on something so trivial. All that effort could be spent better elsewhere.
"Parents can’t trust a rating system that doesn’t even disclose how they come to a particular rating"
I flip over the box, read the rating and the desription of why it was rated (Violence, language, etc). If I, as a parent, decide its not for my kid I don't let them get it.
Shocking I know.
Then they sure as hell shouldn't trust the movie rating system (MPAA), which is one of the most secretive organizations; but they don't complain about that now because movies are 'old media' and their perceived threat to 'the children' has been lessened by familiarity.