Racial Comments Trouble Philly Games Writer

September 15, 2007 -

My buddy Rob Watson, with whom I share video game coverage chores at the Philadelphia Inquirer, is concerned about some gamer reactions he's read online concerning Black College Football: The Xperience.

The new PC game from Baton Rouge-based Nerjyzed Entertainment is based on the Unreal 3 engine and should launch this fall. Writes Rob:

I have always bragged about how smart you gamers are and how open-minded and kindhearted you've been in terms of how the world works. Some of you let me down over the last couple of weeks...

 

Various forums and message boards were littered with "Why do they need their own game?" or "If there was an all-white football game, there would be an uproar!"

 

Sigh.

 

There was once a time when these schools were all that African Americans had in terms of higher education... this new game... includes some things EA (makers of the NCAA Football series) probably never even thought about when it comes to black schools; annual classic match-ups and a Battle of the Bands competition...

Stop the hate and investigate.

GP: We haven't been tracking BCF:TX up until now. However, after reading Rob's column we did check out some postings around the Net.

While some gamers have been quite supportive of the game concept, as Rob says, others have been less than accepting. Not to single out Joystiq (whose coverage was very fair), but the 200+ comments to Justin McElroy's article on the game are a good example of the various reactions to BCF:TX.


Comments

"As long as we do not allow legitimate complaints from both sides, we’re just perpetuating this view point (and letting that community oppress itself through ignorance)"

And once the "ZOMG REVERSE RACISM111" side has a legitamate complaint, I'll listen. But so long as all they have is "well why can't white guys do/say blank???111" then I'll keep responding with "Well guess what! ZOMG CONTEXT!".

Personally, I'd say three things from watching the in-game video...

1: The only colour issue in sport is stay away from guys with different coloured shirts.
2: The UT3 Engine has looked better.
3: Nerjyzed need a name that doesn't sound like a Dr Who. bad guy.

Other than that, I'll say no differently from the Evil Dead Africa scene, if you're playing a game where either the social or environmental format means a lot of non-whites, then I don't really see a problem with it.

Not Evil Dead, Resident Evil 5... too many zombie movies and games...

The only surprise I can see in this debate is that Rob Watson has "always bragged about how smart you gamers are and how open-minded and kindhearted you've been in terms of how the world works." Wow, what a great way to set yourself up for a disappointment! Gamers are not a monolithic society that miraculously lacks basic, ignorant human fallacies. How can mutual interest in a hobby affect one's opinions about the world, or even eliminate preconceived biases unrelated to that hobby? Has he just now glanced at gamer forums? The objections to BCF:TX are based on plain ignorance of the valuable role black colleges played in American history, even if some scholars think that they have become obsolete (an issue I’ll let black folks and relevant academics debate as I’m in no position to have an opinion on the subject).The internet is a nasty place, and with all due respect, it is Rob Watson who looks ridiculous for saying “Some of you let me down over the last couple of weeks.”

@Ohma
While you are correct in pointing out that objections to this game are based on false logic, you ruin your argument by resorting to name calling and questioning the legitimacy of those with whom you disagree. There can be no intelligent discussion of an issue if terms such as “idiot WASP gamer boys” are thrown into the mix. In future it’s best to use the golden rule in debates, especially online ones: don’t treat those you disagree with any differently than you would want them to treat you. Every time I’ve gotten into trouble online is when my emotions have caused me to forget this basic rule.

@Gavin
I was thinking of posting something along those lines, but I clearly couldn’t have said it better. Bravo!

Watch as the Resident Evil 5 debate rises from the dead. It's the monster that will never go away.

Anway if there really were black only football leagues than what does it matter that we make a game out of it. Yes a white college football game would cause an uproar, but oh well.

"The concept of “Because we got punished, we deserve better treatment then the rest” is plain BS. You deserve EQUAL treatment, not better treatment."

And see here’s the thing, if you had a race where the majority of the drivers advertised for this one brand, and that brand wouldn't support any of the other drivers, and furthermore some of the supported drivers intentionally sabotaged or drove really offensively around the non-supported drivers, and the brand gave the supported drivers a bunch of crap to add onto their cars (nitrous oxide ect.), while at the same time the non-supported drivers couldn't even afford that because they aren't supported by that brand, you wouldn't get a fare race.

To quote a conversation where someone said it less disjointedly than I:

Person A:"What the fuck is it with members of the most powerful, privileged group in America feigning moral outrage over "double standards" that don't go in their favour? For years, we have treated whites calling blacks "niggers" differently than blacks calling whites "honkies" or "crackers", for the simple reason that when a bully kicks the weak kid, you react differently than when the weak kid kicks the bully. Is this really so hard to comprehend?"

Person B:"Except, and here's the thing, I'm all for everyone having the same priviledges as everyone else. "

Person A:"Gee, that would be a wonderful sentiment if people actually started on a level playing field, wouldn't it? But since they don't, then your attitude merely helps preserve the status quo. "

@Tristam:

I meant their name. True, from their background it is understandable, but that does not change the fact that if such racist injustice happens to "non-coloured" people, the NAACP is not the organisation to call to.

But better yet, there is no such thing as a non-coloured human. Everyone has a colour. White people are not "white", just look at them. It is more a light beige, with pinkish undertones.
"Black" does also not exist. Even the blackest person I've met has got more of a very dark brown, with beige undertones.

It is only pigmentation. And it is quite idiotic that people have been discriminated against, just by higher concentrations of melanin in their skincells.

Damn, who wants to bet that now we'll get a Jack Thompson comment saying "aghhh video games obviously make you a racist prick! It's been scientifically proven!!!"

“If there was an all-white football game, there would be an uproar!” Says it all! And it's not a racist coment either! I am sick of how political correctness is going! It should go both ways! The blacks can't have it all! We've changed why can't they!? I'm just glad the whole thing with Resi 5 has died down!

@Ohma:

I don't know what exactly you mean with it. Person B says only one thing: That people should have equal priviledges.
But Person B should also add that everyone has to obey the same set of rules.
The Bully is not allowed to kick the weak kid, but the weak kid is also not allowed to kick the bully.
Sure, the bully should be punished for his behaviour. But that does not mean that the weak kid is allowed to do more stuff then the bully if the bully has stopped bullying.

*sigh* I'm not getting into one of these frakking "well if your analogy is completely true then blah blah blah lol I r teh win argument" arguments.

I think that those gamers were getting back for the RE5 dilemma. I don't condone the way they went about it, though. Insults and accusations don't paint a good image for gamers, and we cannot afford to have another person (journalist, in this case) against us.

@Ohma

Well if you base your argument off an analogy and he points out several flaws in it and blasts the analogy then I say that's a good counterpoint.

Oh and so far the only person who is saying stuff like "I r teh win" is you so I suggest you stop.

If a game like this is okay, then a game like RE5 should be okay.

Oh, so that's what Nerjyzed is working on. Hmm. Unreal 3 might be halfway decent at a sports game... who knows.

While at first I would agree that the "Well, if you called it White College Football people would be up in arms about it" (and don't deny it, people would be), I don't see them as having much choice. That's the name it has been given. That's how people refer to it.

Nerjyzed's workaround, an entirely plausible one, is to emphasize the BCFX initials on the box. Acronyms hide the meaning behind things. See also NAACP and BET. If the game became popular, you can bet people will refer to it as BCFX.

The Battle of the Bands is a really cool idea, I'll give them that. :)

"Well if you base your argument off an analogy and he points out several flaws in it and blasts the analogy then I say that’s a good counterpoint."

Only if the flaws you point out actually apply to the real life situation the analogy is describing. Since "The Ethnic/Social Majority" and "Ethnic/Social Minorities" are not in reality just two kids who can be watched by a single adult or givin a time out (they are millions of people watched over by their fellows who happen to be in positions of power), the the idea that that is what should happen isn't a valid critisicem.
If it were than the whole point of distilling an argument into an analogy (to provide a succinct, if not entirely accurate summary of an argument, rather than a long dissertation on all the different variables involved) would be defeated.

And why sould I stop paroding bad arguments with "interweb" speak exactly?

Do any of you saying things about "white college football" know anything about historically black colleges and the experience of their football games? The reason why there is going to be a game about Black College Football is that the culture of football games at these schools -- the experience of them if you will -- is pretty different from the culture of football games at most other colleges.

I hate college football and I hate most sports videogames but this game sounds like it might be interesting to be because, at least from the title and splash page of the website, it looks like it is going to be about more than plays and touchdowns. That sounds a lot more interesting to me than Madden 08 or whatever football game.

Personally, I think it's your friend who is overreacting. While black colleges were once necessary, they aren't anymore. I think they subtly encourage segregation, or at least a subconsciously segregating frame of mind. If we are supposed to be equal, shouldn't we all be in the same schools? In the same video games? I don't think this does anything positive, much in the same way that people like Al Sharpton can overplay their hand and do more damage than good. Essentially, I feel there are double standards at play, here. I'm tired of this nonsense. It's 2007 and we don't need this anymore. It's bullshit.

I'm greatly offended by this game because it spells "experience" "Xperience." Where is the outrage!

As to the rest, though: anyone who says that someone can't say something for whatever reason is an idiot. Ohma, I'm looking at you. Certainly certain people saying certain things is offensive, ignorant and unacceptable in polite society, but it is equally offensive, ignorant and unacceptable to suggest that there are things that certain people can just never say.

The game itself is actually a great stride for games in that it presents a ubiquitous aspect of society, football, from the unique cultural standpoint of the black experience. I like that idea because it expands the scope of gaming and, hopefully, will expand the perception of what gaming is.

As to the racial debate - murky waters to step into if there ever were any - haven't we reached a point where various racial, cultural and economic groups can stand up and debate for themselves without requiring "champions" to continually modify the playing field and change the rules so that there is an illusion of equality? The ugly truth is that the propensity to be racist and to stereotype is an innate aspect of human nature but the beauty of the stronger socializing aspects of humanity is that they can make a person exist beyond the bounds of the worst of themselves. It isn't wrong that we see a certain type of person and have an immediate reaction, it's wrong if we act on that reaction without any consideration of its merits.

"Stop the hate and investigate."

How about this:
Stop the hate, don't segregate.

But, hey, if you TRULY want to segregate yourself based on race, religion, gender, sexuality, or any other group of Humanity, be my guest. I'll stick with the segment of society that prefers Unified Diversity.

But, also understand, that those who chose to segregate have absolutely ZERO argument points to make against any other group that chooses to segregate. Anyone attempting to do so, makes themselves look hypocritical, ignorant, bigoted. There is truly no logical, intelligent argument that can be made to advocate the segregation of one sub-group (such as one race vs another or one gender vs another, for example) while condemning the segregation of another.

As for me, I don't hold one individual's negative opinions, beliefs, or actions to be a negative impact on any segment of the rest of society. I don't hold Fred Phelp's actions against heterosexuals. I don't hold Eric Rudolph's or John Bruce Thompson's actions against Christians (though I have used John Bruce's actions to make "Devil's Advocate" arguments).
I don't hold Al Sharpton's actions or the NAACP's actions against the African American community. I don't hold David Duke, the KKK, or the Neo-Nazi's actions against European Americans. I don't hold Osama Bin Lauden's or any of his followers' actions against Muslims. And many others I could list as well. They are solely responsible for their own actions, irregardless of WHAT justification they want to pass the responsibility of their action on to.

Segregate if you want. But don't expect sympathy or support if someone else chooses to segregate as well and you don't like it.

If you want a Black Panthers FPS that rivals the Neo-Nazi "Ethnic Cleansing", be my guest. I wouldn't be interested in either anyway. But, hey, knock yer self out. Ya wanna make single race football games? Knock yer self out. Ya wanna make a women's only football game? Knock yer self out. Ya wanna make a football game that includes ANY type of individual, including men AND women? Knock yer self out.

But don't bitch and complain because you only want it YOUR way and your way ONLY.
It's
that
simple.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

@ohma

but those arguments do apply. Just because the weaker ones had been picked on before doesn't mean they get to turn around and do the exact same thing. Two wrongs do not make a right, as the saying goes. Also your analogy is flawed because not all white people are bullies who pick on the blacks, and not all white people are superior to blacks, there are a lot of white men who are worse off than your average black man and vice versa.

Also you shouldn't use internet slang to parody our arguments because you are implying that we are brainless idiots who would use that kind of slang and that is rude (it's also an ad hominen attack, which is very frowned upon in debates).

I find the racial arguments over this to be race card burning to just burn something, if ti was whites only I'd say the say thing.

In the end its a Ethnic/Social/Cultural Football game thats no worse than the "standard" Football Culture, and if its hiphop based it might even be damaging to it, then again hiphop is like country for white people :P.

No they don't, for exactly the reasons both you and I posted. An analogy isn't supposed to be perfect, it's just supposed to get the pertanent facts across without nessesitating a freaking wall of text.

@Ohma

I think the real core here, when you get past all the stereotypes, rhetoric, etc, is people do not like being told how to feel. And that is exactly what happens in these situations.

One has the right to be offended by something, one does not have the right to tell others that they have no right to be offended.

@Paul, Brian, Tristram (and DoggySpew)

(This is a very long comment)



The problem isn't even the games themselves, but the greater underlying social tension between african americans and caucasian americans. The games just set those tensions off / give them an outlet to be expressed.

Like when Jack Thompson or Yee go on a 'moral' rampage, there is nothing to really say to them about the game, or gaming in general to make a point. They have their beliefs, and those beliefs are the point of argument.

look at the game we are talking about. I haven't seen anyone say a game about black college foot ball teams should not be made (though I am sure some people think that). What I have seen is many people argue that a social double standard exists. Then we see two sides try to qualify why the game is/is not legit based on two different criteria: Contextual value (historical reality) vs. Social impact (Double standard against equality)

I think this is a social debate, which the video game is stuck in (for no fault of its own). We can all agree there is social tension between blacks and whites in this country, and we can all agree that this topic has been the center piece of many comments in this thread.

If we don't look at the larger issue (social equality) and instead focus on a completely legitimate game, that we have nothing to debate (because the game is legitimate for it's own non social reasons).

@ Tristram specifically

I'm not sure I understand what you are disagreeing with? I support this game as a cultural outlet designed for the AA consumer.

The double standard that I find dangerous is when the AA community raises complaints (per Resident Evil 5). In doing that, the AA community makes the Caucasian community feel threatened and / or insulted, which results in more racism.

This is not an issue of being muffled, but rather being insulted. Resident Evil 5 (and I apologize for using this example too much) was not created with racist intent. If Resident Evil 5 was set in Los Angeles, I would be out there with a protest sign myself, but it wasn't. No more than BCF was. Regardless it was attacked as such, and the result is that whites feel labeled as racists unjustly.

What concerns me, is this feeling that blacks are everyones' target. I agree that blacks face a great challenge, but presenting the community as a target of other communities promotes the idea that blacks are just victims.

As I mentioned before, I live in Baltimore City and my family is involved in the public schools and one of the greatest challenges black children face in our education system is themselves. Regardless of race, If a child feels that he is a victim, and will never amount to anything no matter what, he will not try hard in school, and thus fulfill his own expectations (of failure).

Again, my concern here is that the black community oppresses itself by accepting (and promoting) the double standard. By saying: we are held down, we are the victim, and making that the justification for being treated differently from the rest of the population, the community stays different, stays feared, and subsequently stays oppressed.

This is the cyclic nature DoggySpew is touching on: by focusing on the community as a victim, and promoting that community's advancement only, the presenter is making a racist statement. He is saying the NAACP is bad because it approves discrimination and race-focused matters (which are racist by book definition) in order to bring blacks "up".

I do not oppose the NAACP because US politics and culture is set up the same way, so the organization has no other way to go forward. Still, by book definition, it is technically racist (even if "in a good way").

Does that make sense?

Is this game racist....no

Does this help bring to light the double standard in America...You bet your ass it does

In the end this game is being made representing the historically black colleges in the US. To be a historically black college it had to have been founded bfore Schools were forced to integrate. Any university created after is called a "Predominately Black University".

But I digress, on both sides of this issue are morons. Those who claim racism without knowing the history, and those who claim no racism because they think we want to say words like "Nigger" and "Fag". Well I don't like to use those words. But I don't like being called a "Cracker" either. Partially because I'm part black and indian, even though my skin is white, and partially because I don't think anyone should be given preferential treatment to call anyone a racist name.

AKA (I can't use the "N word" and minorities can't use the "C word").

But think about it like this. The greater the minority, the more you can get away with. If you are a black, aethiest, lesbian woman you can say more than a white, christian, straight male can.

Uh...where to begin, where to begin...

Look, I am no racist. But it even strikes me as a little biased that it only features black players.

If this were a game featuring exclusively white players, Jesse Jackson, and Rev. Al Sharpton would be up somebody's ass screaming their heads off.

If it was supposed to be a part of the game, and didn't involve anything to do with making a statement about race, I apologize for the misunderstanding. But the developer has said nothing about why there are no white players in the game, so naturally, the mind assumes these things.

Do I think I'm a racist? No. I think that I'm a rational person, who's trying to figure out why they'd done this, be it a choice in how to develop the game, or a statement on race.

@ Ohma

per: whites feigning outrage.

My issue is equality, as an academic discussion. My concern is that by focusing on being victimized by whites, blacks can oppress themselves. This puts them in an understandable, but very real damaging cycle.

That's the issue. How to solve it is an entirely different story, completely out of place for this forum

Lol! It's like Resident Evil 5 with less zombies and more FOOTBALL!!!!!

I applaud Gavin here, *Gives applause*.

Also, to comment a bit on "Affirmative action". This is something that is totally inconceivable here in the Netherlands.
As per law, racism is not allowed. It is actually are "First amendment" if you will:
"Allen die zich in Nederland bevinden, worden in gelijke gevallen gelijk behandeld. Discriminatie wegens godsdienst, levensovertuiging, politieke gezindheid, ras, geslacht of op welke grond dan ook, is niet toegestaan."

Which means: All who are present in The Netherlands shall be equally judged at equal circumstances. Discrimination of religion, lifestyle, political views, race, sex or on any other grounds, is not allowed.

So a system where someone gets a scholarship, based on his race is out of the question. However, a scholarship based on the amount of income IS allowed. Because "income" is something that is seperate from who you are.

Such a system could be implemented in the US as well, and it still would help "poor" black people. But it will also help "poor" white people.

These systems however are hampered from being introduced in the US, because of the ol' fear of communism.

i'm more outraged that this idiot game promotes the stereotypical "ignorant black person."

anyone who thinks the game isn't racist is fooling themselves.

@ Tristram

Actually, from a legal stand point, you are correct. Equality is expressed as different elements of total equal value divided among the parties (Jack Thompson coul probably give a better text book description than that). For example, when dividing an inheritance, my brothers and I could agree to split our parents' properties, cars, and cash any way, as long as the total each of us got were roughly the same.

Still, the goal is to give all parties the same thing (approximate total value). It just avoids parity, where everyone would have to receive exactly the same thing (equal parts of each property, car, and cash).

Om default race topic

I can think of a few games, but I think that misses an important point:

How many video games have a latino main character? A native american character? An eskimo, or hawaiian? (I don't know the answer to that).

How many main characters are not 'white', but 'asian'? How many are 'white', but not 'american'?

Also, how many video game companies are owned or operated by minorities?

I do not know the answer to those questions, however based on the number of non-US publishers and studios that produce games, I suspect the answer is "Proportionately small".

Still, it's a dangerous assertion to make, because it expands beyond the US, and potentially claims Europe and Asia are anti-Black as well...

My level of frustration is rising, so perhaps it is time for me to end my part in this, for the time being. One little thing that gets me:

ARG. For the love of God why do people keep saying "if this was a white only game Sharpton and Jackson would be..." Seriously, this has been said a dozen times by a dozen different people. Stop saying the same thing again and again. Reads the effing argument that is being that is being presented by everyone on the board and then add to it, don't just toss your two cents in.

Gavin, the NAACP does not focus on black people as victims. The ideology does not focus on them as victims. What is does is try desperately to force people to remember the history and the perspective. Black Americans have done many things and achieved a lot but they WERE victimized and still are. The "I'm never gonna get any where, I'm just a black kid" is exactly the type of idea that the NAACP is fighting against, not promoting. these kids don't have this attitude because they are told they are victims, they have this attitude because they still see a U.S.A. where they are still kept down. How would you feel if you grew up realizing that the only reason many employers would hire you is because they are forced to by law. Seriously. How sad is it that we NEED affirmative action? And yet if it were eliminated you would watch black employment drop...hell, things aren't even equal with laws in place.

What is so threatening to everyone about this game? And why the hell do people feel their race was attacked when RE5 was criticized. Most people posting here have comfortable middle class lives never facing problems beyond the normal everyday issues. Why do you resent the blacks for having a game that focuses totally on them? You want one that focuses on you too? You don't feel like white achievement has been celebrated enough? Well go celebrate it. Have fun. Make your white only basketball game if it makes you feel any better. But just remember that there is nowhere in the U.S. or Canada that you will be barred from just for being white. Think about that, and then decide you are so under privileged that you need a game focusing solely on your race. I swear, I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall of people making the same argument again and again. "Duuur, if this were all white there would be outrage, durrr." No shit. All white and all black are not the same thing. Live with it.

Ah, the masses on the Interenet are once again called to action. All it has taken now is for a game to be called Black College Football. Now, watch the two sides of race discussion erupt between white people who complain about a supposed double standard and politically correct white people who will play the history card to attempt to justify said double standard.

Clearly, expanding the argument past its boundaries must be our highest concern. The War on Drugs and equal treatment? The issue of racial quotas in colleges? Bah! There is no time for the forums to address those topics! Somebody on the Internet called a sports game we've never heard of racist!

Seriously, this is getting montonous. This has come up when somebody with nothing better to do came up with a list of "racist" games. It's come up with the RE5 trailer. Now we're seeing it again! Have relationships become so tense lately that the mere mention of race in video games ignites them?

I should probably stop here, as no doubt someone from at least one side is miffed at my comments. In closing, I leave you now with Family Guy's words of wisdom on the subject:

Peter: "For whistling at a white woman, go directly to jail. Aw man, does anyone ever win at this game!?"

Cleveland: "You don't win. You just do a little better each time."

@ Gavin Schmitt

"I am curious why Rob feels gamers are generally smart, open minded, and kind people?"


He doesn't have Xbox Live. It's the only way he could come to that conclusion.

@ DoggySpew

part of the concern with scholarships like that is that there are more caucasians in the USA over all. Rich, Poor*, and middle** class. So a scholarship based purely on income would still be majority white-aiding. In an academic vacuum that is fair, but emotionally not so much.

*I have to check the exact numbers with the USA Census department to confirm this statement. It is possible that there are fewer caucasian-poor than other racial & ethnic groups.

**Likewise, the latino population may now have a higher household income base (in the middle class) than caucasians. It can be argued that this may by due to having larger families / more people per household (which makes reduces living conditions), but that's a cultural debate, and would not count in a dollar-value scholarship debate.

Double post.

A wall that twists every little thing you say into some bizarre statement. This is almost surreal. Gavin, no crap there are few games with a Latino or Asian main character. All my arguments could extend to them.

Main point: These all black colleges exist, the players are real. To make an all white game you would have to invent all white teams, all white colleges. does this difference mean anything to anyone?

Oh, and has anyone considered that the reason there are so many black people in sports is because it might be one of the few places where they can achieve and their race doesn't matter?

Doggyspew, how are the Indonesians in the Netherlands doing? Are they proportionately represented in every profession? Or is there a legitimate reason that they aren't?

I personally have no issue with the game itself. What I have an issue with, and what many of my friends, including some of the african americans, have an issue with is the double standard as it exsists.

A game like this is fine, as long as it goes both ways. Lets have a black collage Football game, sounds great, could be a real eye opener to people not familiar with this history. On the other hand, lets have a white game as well for balance, seems fair right? But oh, if anyone ever were to try that, you watch how fast Al "Im a flaming dirtbag" Sharpton jumps on them.

If anything ever proved the double standard in this country it was the DUKE Lacrosse case, and to this DAY, Nancy grace, AL Sharpton, and all there Ilk never once apologized for being scumbags and judging the players GUILTY long before the evidance was known.

The issue here isn't the game, it's the horrific double standard that has been created by the media, our society, and our politicans, on both sides.

Scum bags ALL OF THEM!

My God what have I done, I have inserted myself into an argument that will get absolutely nowhere fast and will result in an unholy mess just like it did before. (Shudder)

Now if you'll excuse me I'm getting out of here before this turns into the Resident Evil 5 argument again.

Oh and as a final word, remember boys and girls, this is only a freaking football game, the all black teams were real. Now if there were all white teams in the recent past and someone made a game out of it then I'm pretty sure most people would not complain. Any discussion on double standards, the n word, al sharpton and the like is very much off topic and will result in this thread becoming no more than a shouting match.

You have been warned.

Oh and if you are offended or insulted or whatever by my previous arguments feel free to ignore them or assume I was mis-informed because I probably will not be coming back here.

I think it's a little wrong to get upset over one of the statements mentioned.

Paraphrased: "If there were an all white game there would be an uproar!" This is something thats been talked about with things like BET and the Black Entertainment Awards. I don't thin it's a racist statement, it's simply pointing out how in some instances we've gone beyond treating people equally and fairly to giving them their own special arenas no one else can compete it.

That being said I do believe there is still a lot of racial discrimination and a lot of racist people. But I also believe that those people exist in all cultural communities be it black, white, or any other. Another aspect of this is that if the game in question was simply trying to show the reality of historic schools, then of course it's racist. It's showing something that was racially motivated in the past. That doesn't mean the people making the game were racist or people buying/playing it are racist just like reading about the civil war doesn't make you racist.

Father Time, no. The analogy was talking about power structures, not individuals. There is a powerful white power structure. The analogy was supposed to represent each group as a person. Yes, stretching it, that is what analogies do. they are not literal. His or her point stands firm. If you cannot see that point, I'm sorry. Your argument against it shows that you clearly didn't.

I'm guessing most of the complaints against this game were simply due to ignorance. I have to admitt, had I simply seen the title and known nothing else, it would not have made a good impression on me, but that's because I know pratically nothing about College Football and its history and the different leages and divisions and stuff. After reading a little bit more about it, it makes more sense now, and I have no problem with the game. Though I think they should change xperience to experience, but that's just a pet peeve of mine.

I'm not happy with the trend of some people here to catergorize anybody who had even a brief qualm about this game as racist or stupid, though. Sure, some of them are, but I'm sure many just didn't understand the context. If EA were to make "Maddon Black Edition", and have it be exactly like Maddon, except every non-black player is replaced by a fictional black player, how would people feel? I think many of the people commenting on this game at first assumed it was something like that.

@ Terminator44

It is funny how topics can balloon out of control on the net. I think I got here because I was concerned that people were just going to start shouting, and brainlessly attacking each other (and repeating 'why not white foot ball' over and over).

I enjoy game politics' and wanted to see if I could help keep the conversation from going too far down the toilet


@ point09micron Says:

good point ;) though I'm unfortunately find more racist 14 year olds on the PSN too.


@ Tristram

I apologize if my part in the debate has offended you. That was not my goal.

My goal is to express a complex idea, which is difficult for most people to accept because of semantics.

For example, the NAACP certainly does not literally say "Blacks are victims". However, the vary nature of your response:

"Black Americans have done many things and achieved a lot but they WERE victimized and still are. "

Proves my point. You feel blacks are still victimized today, and that is partially because of how the NAACP (and the greater USA culture) presents it.

I am not saying the NAACP is not needed, nor that it does not do an important job. I am just saying, culturally, the NAACP (and most of the USA's culture) presents this image of victimization, which results in a cyclic oppression of blacks.

It is a huge problem in our culture. It is used against everyone, in every life style group, ethnic & racial group, and economic class.

My point is to point that out.

and hope one day (or perhaps over time) we find a solution that addresses the problem.


As for RE5, think of it this way: Where blacks feel victimized, Whites feel villainized. Where it is reasonable to feel a game about a white man killing endless black people is bad, it is equally reasonable to feel 'blaming whites' for being represented as the killer of those black zombies is bad.


As for Not being barred because you are White: If you spend time in Baltimore and DC, I would gladly take you to places where I would be turned away (if not shot) for being chromatically out of place (unless escorted by black friends). Some of those places would turn away my black friends for not being 'black enough'.

These cultural situations only exist because of the racism we've been talking about today: that people feel so victimized, because of how our culture presents the situation, that they would take it out on a random white passer bye.

That's no different from racism in the south, where poor whites may take out their hate on blacks in the same way.

Does that makes sense to you?

@ Tristram

I'm not sure I follow you're response. I have not suggested making an all white football game anywhere today, nor have I said black football has no place as a game.

I am not sure why you brought up black people in sports either. If race doesn't matter in sports, why doesn't it matter elsewhere?

As for Indonesians in the Netherlands, I worked for a Dutch Toko many years ago (selling Indonesian kites around europe). I certainly can not speak for the whole country, or the legal system, but my coworkers (who were all originally very poor) felt it was going well enough.

Like hispanics entering the USA, many of them joined the Toko for work -- for pay substantially greater than what they would get at home, without an expensive (and unavailable) education. Again, I am not an expert, but this seems more like an attack against Doggyspew, and less on topic

@ Gavin

I am not necessarily responding to you with everything I say. I am not offended by any means, just frustrated...and not particularly with you.

My claim that black people were victimized has to do with my sense of history. If you think it was the NAACP, so be it. Whatever. This does not change the fact that they do not have the same opportunities at the same level yet. If saying that means they should not try because it doesn't matter, then something is seriously wrong. What that should mean is that each should try as hard as they can to overcome this and change things for the next generation. But, clearly the kids ion the school you mention are not trying because the NAACP has told them they have no chance.

@Tristam.

To answer your question about Indonesians: How the heck should I know ? The amount of Indonesians living in the Netherlands is percentage and number wise WAAAAAAAAAY lower then "Blacks" living in the US.

So on point, there just aren't enough Indonesians to be proportionaly represented in every profession.
Better example would be Morrocans and Turks living in the Netherlands. There I can say this about it: No they are not proportionaly represented in every profession.
Mostly because of the reason Gavin said: Substantially higher pay. Most work done by immigrants is low-education work (Working in factories, in the fields and stuff).
Not that the Dutch won't do this kind of work, but simply because immigrants are needed to supplement our workforce.

Immigrants have the exact same rights here as anyone, ias well in terms of education. It is not surprisingly that children of immigrants have on average higher education jobs then their parents. Considering that most immigrants came to the Netherlands right after WW2, alot of immigrants have settled here. People from Suriname, Morroco, Turkey and Indonesia mostly.

I'm not saying that there are no racial tensions in the Netherlands, but it is far, far less then in the US.

A lot of people don't seem to realise that racism goes both ways.

to me, all of the below sound equally racist:
Black College Football
White College Football
*insert race here* College Football

Doesn't matter which race is the most common in said country, it still sounds racist.

(above post ate my bracket tags, edit button needed :P)

above comment ate my brackets. third on this list should have read
*insert race here* College Football

I don't see why people get so tied up over these pointless issues. If this developer wants to make a Black College [Soccer] game, who the fuck cares?

It disappoints me that people have such an issue with it. And so much controversy is created because of it. It's the same thing when GayGamer got raided and shut down, and all a lot of people could say is 'lol y do teh gays neeed thar owne site lol'.

Seriously, if you don't like the content in the game, or on the site, or in the book, movie, tv show, etc...

Don't. Fucking. Play/Read/Watch It!

b...b....but, only white people can be racist.
 
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PHX CorpI'm going to do a test stream later today, if anyone is intrested07/31/2014 - 2:40pm
Andrew EisenYes, I'm such a big Nintendo dork that I read Nintendo's quarterly financial reports.07/31/2014 - 2:09pm
Andrew EisenCool tidbit - Mario Kart 8 sales account for more than half of total Wii U software sales for the last quarter even though it was only available for the last third.07/31/2014 - 2:09pm
Andrew EisenStill a pretty cool promotion. Unfortunately for me, I'm not interested in purchasing Mario Kart 8 and I already owned or didn't want any of the free games on offer.07/31/2014 - 1:43pm
Andrew EisenInteresting that EU had 10 games to choose from while North America only had four.07/31/2014 - 1:41pm
MaskedPixelanteIt certainly worked, I probably would never have bought Mario Kart 8 if it didn't come with a free copy of Wind Waker HD.07/31/2014 - 1:14pm
Andrew EisenI imagine will see similar promotions like "Buy Mario Kart 8 get a download code for one of these specific games" but almost certainly not for all of its (however you would define) biggest releases.07/31/2014 - 11:24am
MaskedPixelanteI wonder if Nintendo is going to be doing "buy one get one free" promos for all their biggest releases going forward.07/31/2014 - 10:48am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/special-report-retail-revolt-over-pc-code-strippers/013614007/31/2014 - 8:27am
ZippyDSMleeWouldn't they be able to afford and get done in a timely manner a general gba emluator for the 3DS? It seems to me if they want to make money off sales they need to do it.07/31/2014 - 7:25am
Sora-ChanAmbassador program, that's what I was looking for. Anyway the other games that have been made no longer exclusive to the early adopters got updates in their software. It'll only be a matter of time more than likely for the GBA to get the same treatment.07/31/2014 - 5:35am
Sora-ChanI might be naming it incorrectly when I say "founder" i mean the program for earlier adopters.07/31/2014 - 5:34am
Sora-Chanthe 3DS's GBA emulator was a rush job due to the founder program. No other GBA titles have been released on the 3DS yet. If/When they do get around to it, they'll more than likely update the emulation software.07/31/2014 - 5:32am
Zenemulator...it's not just a slap job that makes "some" work..they do it for each which is why they work so well. I would rather have the quality over just a slap job.07/30/2014 - 5:48pm
ZenMatthew there is a difference between "worked" and "accurate". You play the Nintendo VC titles they play as damn close to the original as possible. The PSP would just run them as best they could, issues and all. And Masked...EACH VC title has their own07/30/2014 - 5:48pm
MaskedPixelanteOnce again, the 3DS already HAS a GBA emulator, it just can't run at the same time as the 3DS OS.07/30/2014 - 4:54pm
Matthew Wilsonyou cant street pass in ds mode ether, and if moders can make a gba emulator that runs very well on the psp as I understand it. you are telling me that Nintendo devs are not as good as moders?07/30/2014 - 4:49pm
Zenperformance. Halo 1 and 2 worked great because they actually did custom work on each of them...just like Nintendo does now lol07/30/2014 - 4:08pm
Zenexisting hardware while the GBA has to be emulated completely. Same reason the 360 couldn't run most Original Xbox games correctly, or had issues because they just did "blanket approach" for their emulation which led to game killing bugs or horrible07/30/2014 - 4:07pm
ZenSora/Matthew: It's not just Miiverse, but the whole idea of streetpass and things like that would be affected if the OS is not running. And just because a 3DS game can be downloaded and run does not mean that GBA can as easily. Those 3DS games use the07/30/2014 - 4:06pm
 

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