"Our target market is identical to that of video game"

While it's good to hear about the sucess of game ratings, I fear for how this will be spun by certain individuals. " Air Force wants psycho children hooked on killographic video games. This proves that games turn you into mindles killing machines

Halo shouldn't be M-Rated anyway.

That is all.

Sorry, about that name stuff, still there on this computer from a post to jack a while ago.

Someone create a game called "War" so the saying "War is not a game." can't be true anymore.

So, the military didn't enforce the rating system?
How can anyone expect the stores (and movie theatres while I'm at it) to enforce it when their government doesn't?
It's called leading by example.

"I would like to know if there’s a disclaimer, if they’re warning kids that their actual combat experience may vary. War is not a game."

I can't believe how dumb people seem to think teens are. Granted, they do a lot of dumb things (as does everyone when they are learning how the world works) but the "games =/= real life" thing - I think that lesson comes between right between object permanence and learning not to crap yourself. I think they've got that down, thanks.

I like how you can't buy a video game in this country if you're under 18 but you can sign up to potentially kill/be killed in real life.

Rofl,
USA gov: "We must ban all games that are not about puppies and bunnies in fields of flowers!"
USA Military: "Quick lets let kids below the age limit play violent games in order to recruit them!"

There need to be charges filed and pressed. What they did is illegal.

I agree, War is not a game, there are no respawns if you die and such.

"I agree, War is not a game, there are no respawns if you die and such."

inb4 FPS Doug references

"Hmm, now where did that restart button go? im not liking this hole in my foot..." Is that what they think us gamers think? Honestly, we should know that war and death in real life is permanent. Just because we watch fantasies and play them, dont mean we think their real. Not gonna run up to barney and think hes a real dinosaur, not gonna think a game is real. We are not idiots in most cases.

@Lard

No, because that is NOT a law. Think of those child games, say, "Between ages of 3-10" for example. And adult using it isn't illegal, and the vice versa is true with games. A 15-year old playing Halo 3 isn't illegal due to there are no laws about it.

I meant "an adult" >.

We need an edit button; the rest of my message disappeared. Bleh, screw it. I said enough.

@Lard

Fine then, I'll say it.

All those complaining that the military is using video games to recruit, get over yourself. You’re wrong, it’s not immoral, and definitely not illegal.

@ Josh :All those complaining that the military is using video games to recruit, get over yourself. You’re wrong, it’s not immoral, and definitely not illegal

So if you have a 12 year old, you'll let him sign up for the military?

Double post:

@Lard - Please read my post again. The minimum age for enlistment is 17, with parental consent, and 18, without. If I have a child that wants to join the military at 18, that's his choice. I will provide suggestions to him, maybe encourage him to go to college first, but ultimately, at 18, it is up to him.

@LARD
Don't call me a Hypocrite
You know nothing about me, but let me tell you a little something about me.
I am a Marine Corporal, I am currently deployed and away from my wife and family, to defend the rights of people to live safely. I am here working day in and out, making sure others don't have to fear being killed because of their ancestry, that they can go to sleep without wondering if people are gonna drive down their streets and kill them while they sleep. So before you want to presume something about me, STFU

@rdeegvainl

Suuuuuuuuuuuuure you are. A Marine Corporal that says STFU and hangs out on a gaming site.

@LARD,
Now your just being a troll. Glad to know there are still people as retarded as you.

I think Lard needs a wall-to-wall counseling.

@rdeegvainl - Be safe in your journey and I hope you return home safely to your family.

@Lard - Regardless if you are just trolling, or you truly are uninformed, I will repeat what the others have said for the sake of repeating it:

Just as it is with movies and music, a person (be it a retailer, recruiter, parent or a complete stranger) can NOT be prosecuted for selling an entertainment product to a person under the specified age limit. A retailer who provides an R rated movie to a 12 year, or sells an M rated game to a 6 year can certainly be chastised by the public for circumventing the rating systems. They will most likely be fired by their superiors as well.

Further more, as mentioned by those with direct experience with the military and other posters who know a little more about the law and recruiting process than you, military establishments will advertise and talk to minors but they will not allow someone to enlist until they are 18.

"@Lard: So what? Are you assuming that gamers don’t have a brain?"

No, just assuming the army (or in this case, the air force) doesn't have morals. Looks like I'm right on both counts.

@LARD,
LOL, someone doesn't agree with you doesn't have morals... that's a good one. You are very entertaining now that we know you are just trolling

Regardless of recruiting practices, they were 17. M ratings are for 17+ the real issue (And I ran into this yesterday at a Gamestop while talking to the people behind the counter) is that Gamestop policy is says they cannot sell M rated to anyone under 18. The fact that the rating says 17+ doesn't matter to them. Here you have a difference between the ESRB (which is suggested, not law) and the corporate policy of a store.

And I say we should lower the drinking age to 18. If you're old enough to vote and die for your country you might as well be able to drink. These days you need to be drunk to vote for our politicians anyway.

(For the record I passed 17 over a decade ago.)

Ah yes, the military has no morals. That makes perfect sense. You know that the military is the one place in America where adultery is a crime? Just a for instance.

I see no lack of morals here. The recruiters know what people like to do. In order to attract said people, they utilize that knowledge. If you wanted to date a girl, and you knew she liked roses, and you got her roses, then you might have more of a chance. Same thing. The girl doesn't have to date you, and these men and women don't have to join the military.

Besides, I'm sure plenty of those people just wanted to play Halo 2. Like I go to Sam's Club to get free samples without actually purchasing anything. :)

"If you wanted to date a girl, and you knew she liked roses, and you got her roses, then you might have more of a chance"

The girl doesn't shoot you if you don't get her roses.

I need to hurry up and get deployed with my unit so I can make fun of Lard from Iraq. :P

"The kind of people that would target kids and brainwash them with this garbage when they’re too young to know better makes them no different than child molesters."

- Right...yet again, not brainwashing. Please use your brain at some point in this discussion.

@Josh:

Okay, then the guy doesn't whisk the girl off to a foreign land, deprive her of sleep, put her in a position where she'll get shot at and confine her to a base 24 hours a day.

Hm...if only we had a military recruitment system that was based on willful enlistment rather than a draft...
...
...
...
...Wait a minute...we do!

@Lard

You're forgetting that the recruitees know this before joining. You'd have to be a complete idiot not to know that going into Iraq isn't going to be puppies and fun.

@Josh Martz
"I need to hurry up and get deployed with my unit so I can make fun of Lard from Iraq."

Im sorry, but unless you have experienced a real war already, when they strap a m4 onto you and throw you in middle of desert where you see bunch of people blow their heads up, you're gonna shit your pants.

I'm not worried. I train on real weapons, not video games. Sure, there will be a bit some shock, and I can't prepare wholly for that. I joined the military knowing full well what I was getting myself into. I could die, my friends could die, or I could come back missing limbs and such. Honestly, if you aren't scared about that, you're an idiot. But you go out, you do your job, and what will be will be. I resigned myself to that when I signed on the dotted line.

My post wasn't really aimed at going out to fight though, rather than joking about posting on the internet from there.

A lot of things in this story boggle the mind. First off isn't Halo rated M(17 and up)? So shouldn't anyone under 17 not be permitted to play the game in the store's launch party? Two. Why in the bloody hell do recruiters show up? Do they honestly think that their "Hey kids if you join with the (Air Force/Army/Navy) you can be like Master Chief and pwn the n00b terrorists with your mad Halo Skillz." pitch. I can guarantee non of the kids or teens who went to play Halo in the back of a pimp my ride military edition vehicle went because they wanted to hear about how great the military is. No they went to play Halo, so thankfully the recruiter's propaganda and lies fell on deaf ears. Maybe the recruiters should of noticed that if they were too young to play Halo in the store's tournament they were too young to go fight in a war. But then again this is our military we are speaking about, and they really aren't the brightest crayons in the box most of the time.

@ Lard

Are you a LaRouchite?

@E. Zachary Knight

Oh god, is this going to be American System all over again?

@Demontestament
I think the underage label was used to describe those that are 17 but couldn't play in gamestops tourney because they were not 18.

For those that have hair up their ass about the military using video games to help recruiting, get over it. Its just a way to get their foot in the door, its a marketing tool. If you are going to ranting about this you may as well rant about the fact there is a college fund in the military. I mean after all its only poor people that can't afford to go to college, so only poor people join the military.

I think this is really sad.

Here's a little story for yah.

My wife and I often see military recruiters at all kinds of events. We've seen them at Gaming events, the Vans Warped Tour, and even BBQ Rib-Offs. Each time we pass them, we stick up our noses towards them and mutter a "boo" under our breaths.

It's not because we're unpatriotic. We think this is a great country with a lot of freedom that should not be taken for granted. And it's also because we feel that way that we dislike our current President (I sure as hell didn't vote for him!), various extremist nut jobs on both sides of the polls, and why we REALLY want to see Barack Obama win the Presidency.

But most importantly, we dislike military recruiters because they sent my brother in law, my wife's baby brother, to Iraq! They lied to him when he was signing up, saying that there was no way he'd be sent over. He'd be able to get money for college, achieve his career goals, and more. He went to Basic Training and had plans to get into the National Coast Guard once he was finished.

But not more than 2 weeks after he finished Basic, he had received orders to go to Iraq.

My wife's family and myself were NOT happy about that.

Soon though, he'll be home and able to transfer to the Coast Guard so he can do what he really wants: bust some heads by making sure that illegal drug cartels don't smuggle their illicit goods into our country.

He's a good kid too! Made Eagle Scout and received top honors in Scouts (including earning the medal for saving a life), trained in Emergency Medical Services (EMS), Firefighting, and Police Enforcement, and enjoys spending time with tricking out his truck, playing paintball, and hanging out with friends.

My wife's family and I all can't wait for him to come back home. In the words of my mother-in-law:

"I want my son back!"

And yes, she actually DID say that!

So jeers to military recruiters that try and splash a pretty image over what they do. Training is good and all, but they forgot one thing:

People train WITH the hopes that they never have to use what they learn in training at all!

Torchwood, episode 3, when Capt. Jack Harkness teaches Gwen Cooper how to handle ballistic weaponry:

"Let's hope you never have to use any of this."

There may be a game called "War", but real life war is not a game! Not by a long shot! People get injured and killed regularly! And even if there's no physical harm, there's always mental scarring, the "Shell-Shock" that affects war veterans.

Bring our Troops home!

~Otaku-Man

@Otaku-Man
The coast guard can still be sent to a war zone.

This makes sense to me. Go to a place where there will be a bunch of young adult males, some of whom will be interested in working or changing jobs, then advertise to them. Only a little different than going to a high school job fair. Plus I'd imagine it's much more cost effective than TV commercials.

@OtakuMan

So you "boo" at military recruiters because you're shocked that your brother-in-law got sent to war during a war? That's just sheer ignorance on both your part and his.

Slightly OT:

I find it amusing that the Air Force is attempting pull in recruits using Master Chief, a dude who's nickname and faction (UNSC) appear to be based on the Navy.

Then again, it's just me.

The Halo games don't even deserve an M rating. They are so damn tame i'd see no problem with allowing an 8 year old to play them. What's the worst they got, some orange, green and purple blood.

Nobody's saying war is a game, just like nobody says "cops and robbers" is a schoolyard activity. The military has a HUGE gaming community, Halo being one of the most popular choices, and it isn't because the (largely) exceptionally professional men and women of the Armed Forces thought shooting the badguys was like twiddling a joystick.

People need to get over their own insecurities about the military and stop using every odd situation as an excuse to blast legitimate recruitment efforts.

(Go Army, by the way.)

This is bullshit, and I'm surprised to see that everybody here doesn't really think that. The military is using us. They see us gamers as target recruitments because of our fascination with violent video games. They think they can manipulate and coax us into joining through this shit. This Halo stunt is not unlike a pedophile luring kids into his car with candy. It's fucking ridiculous that we're sending kids off to fight in war thats foundation was built off of lies. I'm sorry if my language is a little bit colorful in regards to this manner, but I'm very unhappy with this whole affair.

Not only is this a offense to gamers, but it is also a big slap in the face to both the troops that are currently serving, and to the veterans of war. "War is not a game" and the Army certainly isn't in the game business to make a genuinely enjoyable gaming experience, it's solely using these games as a recruitment tool. I know it's expected behavior of the military, but I'm still sickened by this.

@ GoodRobotUs

Dude, if they had puppies, I would SO enlist right now.

I was gonna write a long respite over some comments. But i thought better of it. Wouldn't change anyones minds.
but i will say the following.
I do not believe this is wrong or unlawful. I also believe we have the greatest system of recruitment, a volunteer one.
Though some recruiters lie, and are scumbags for it, many others do not. So I believe each case has to be judged on it's own merit and not by another situation.

Marine Corps is not a branch of the military, it is part of the Navy

[...] There have been more unsavoury goings on at the various launches however, with the U.S. Military using the events as a venue for recruitment. GamePolitics reports that in New Hampshire, under-17s turned away from a Gamestop Halo 2 tournament were swiftly ushered into a similar event being run nearby by the U.S. Air Force. What is even more disturbing is the terms used by Air Force recruiter, Staff Sgt. Christopher Johnson: “This is going to be huge. We expect a big showing. We have the same demographic as [GameStop]. Our target market is identical to that of video game stores…” [...]

@WD
true, the coast guard doesn't get much credit these days.

Recruters dont lie (too much)... they just tend to not know what the hell is going on. [i]they[/i] dont deploy cause of it being a special duty.

If you join, you'll find who ever the hell trains you has no idea what they are doing, and it isnt till you start OJT that you really learn stuff. (at least in the comm field)

"This is bullshit, and I’m surprised to see that everybody here doesn’t really think that. The military is using us. They see us gamers as target recruitments because of our fascination with violent video games. They think they can manipulate and coax us into joining through this shit."


You know you may be searching for a conspiracy when there is none. The military doesn't need to "brainwash" folk to fill out their ranks. If they truly wanted to be evil dickheads about it they wouldn't have to ask. An army recruiter would show up at your door and tell you to get the hell in the van. I'll take these recruitment techniques over a draft any day. Count your lucky stars that this is all they are doing.

[...] = 'http://alinktothefuture.com/2007/09/27/the-veterans-of-halo-launch-night/'; digg_title = 'The Veterans Of Halo Launch Night'; digg_bodytext = 'Much like my response to America’s Army, I just can’t get upset atthe fact that military recruiters are throwing Halo parties.  I’m all for full disclosure - Halo isn’t, of course, remotely similar to actual war - but it’s not clear to me that anyone claimed that it was.  The military is just finding young people [...]'; ( function() { var ds=typeof digg_skin=='string'?digg_skin:''; var h=80; var w=52; if(ds=='compact') { h=18; w=120; } var u=typeof digg_url=='string'?digg_url:(typeof DIGG_URL=='string'?DIGG_URL:window.location.href); document.write(""); } )() Much like my response to America’s Army, I just can’t get upset at the fact that military recruiters are throwing Halo parties.  I’m all for full disclosure - Halo isn’t, of course, remotely similar to actual war - but it’s not clear to me that anyone claimed that it was.  The military is just finding young people who fit their demographic targets and trying to sell them on a military career.  Honestly, this is smart marketing, not manipulation. [...]

I like the guy objecting to them using video games to try and get teenage boys interested in joining the military. They use absolutely every other means to do so, gramps, if you are unaware. I actually was at a VFW Hospital show where they had tanks and helicopters and such, and sure enough an Air Force recruiter was there--and even had free coin-operated little plane ride thingies for the kids. My relative made the comment to him jokingly that "you guys are recruiting younger and younger, eh?" and he laughed.

[...] Nowadays, most Americans generally just do what we’re told to, lest the bad guys “win”… or something like that. [...]

To Conejo, It is because of recruiters that you don't have to serve. You should go to your local recruiting office and apologize for your comment. The U.S does not have to draft anyone because recruiters are making it possible. They are making every branch of the Armed Forces all volunteer. Without them you may just get a letter in the mail with your number on it. Get a damn clue you idiot. You epitomize the word disgusting. The Air Force epitomizes the word honorable.

Soul Says:
September 26th, 2007 at 8:41 am
Quote:
'"I agree, War is not a game, there are no respawns if you die and such"'

I disagree with you. There are no re-spawns yet.

what a debate of nothingness honestly i'm 19 love gaming halo 3 is what ever... that said if i went to a release party which i did and was allowed to go in because i'm 18 i would have still went out and got the free pizza and dew gamed then left and bought the game... just cause they was out there promoting the game along with the air force would have no barring on ones actions to join the game older people seem to think games have a massive effect on the younger genarations decisions, it's doesn't unless they are idiots that could possible believe that war is a game and if you die you'll return 15 secounds later to give it another go. That said some kids got free pizza and dew while waiting to buy a game and got harased by some recruiting officers which they can go to school and perform the same task minus the pizza and dew so stop over looking little shit and making them huge.