@ Erik
It more along the lines of a court system, and capital punishment. He is portraying god as the one who kills, and he is basing it off of what the bible says. But the bible says God sees and knows all, even the deepest secrets we hide. But god being the one who knew every aspect of every facet of every situation, and the thoughts of all those in mind, i find him to be very capable, to serve as judge jury and executioner. This based on bible statements, the same bible that Pandralisk is using to accuse god of evil. Kind of scary to think that people can be held accountable for things they think no one knows.

@ Pandralisk, if you want to seriously debate with me, my e-mail is rdeegvainl@yahoo.com. I say this so that I don't have to keep putting this on game politics.

There is no such thing as bad publicity.

If they hadn't started these threats, everybody would have completely forgotten about the game by now. So it is timely with the expansion pack coming out.

I've played this game and being a christian myself, there is nothing wrong with it besides the gameplay and graphics suck. The story and idea behind it is nothing to get your panties in a twist over. Its a perfectly fine game in that aspect, We need more games like this but with more edge and better technical aspects to it. Say something like this in the form of Half Life 2 gameplay and graphics would be great.

Hey luneward,

that is a great question, and the answer is that without God cerating the universe, there would be nothing before the universe, and that includes no laws, no color, no time, no matter, and no energy. And the very fact that everything in the universe has these things in such precise constistancy, proves that a chaotic creation did not occur, but rather, a perfectly planned and perfectly designed universe did occur. And the requirements for a plan and a design are a planner and a designer.
And the requirements for a perfectly designed universe is God :)


with much love,
Cliff Haris

Hmmmm... Thing is these days is that Video Games promote a reaction among those that play it, and that opinion is much easier to express, thanks to the Internet.

Look at things like WarCraft etc, there's massive groups both for and against Warcraft. Blizzard does the smart thing, they simply play out the averages, you can't please everyone all the time, normally, if you can weather the original opinion-storm, you will get a clearer idea of the saleability of your game.

Unfortunately, thanks to the actions of certain individuals, companies seem to be getting the idea that 'controversy = sales', it's worked so well for other companies, I certainly hope that is not what is going on here.

The last thing to do trying to shut people up in the blogosphere is trying to sure them. That will only going to bite you in the ass.

DoggeySpew: "The last thing to do trying to shut people up in the blogosphere is trying to sue them."

I didn't know there was an expansion pack, did you?

The proper response to a letter like that is to request exactly which statements are "false or misleading" and why such statements are "false or misleading." Other than that, the letter is mere bullying. But they should respond to the letter as I just stated. It's the first step to fighting this type of stuff because at least you can go to court and say, "Well, we tried but they wouldn't respond to us."

So, what did these bloggers say? Unless they said, "by playing this game you are worshiping Satan and WILL be going to hell", I can see no valid reason for a lawsuit.

This smells like a corporation attempting to deny individuals their First Amendment rights. IF the government can't do it, there's no way I'm gonna let Ben & Jerry’s or McDonalds have that power.

Wait. Left Behind Games actually has enough money to hire lawyers? I thought they were losing money on their crappy game(s), if anything. I think this may be the real news story.

@ Nekowolf

Shhh. He may hear you.

Before he posts let's go ahead and establish the belief that this is a CORPORATION which is taking such reprehensible actions. No matter what beliefs the CORPORATION may support, they are still a COMPANY and act and should be treated in such a way.

(Now, I wish I could capitalize the word corporation in my previous post. My kingdom for an edit button!)

@nekowolf:

Yep...

Diner: Excuse me, waiter? What would you reccomend from this menu of comments on a christian related blog post?

Waiter: Ah, may I recommend the genralising, hateful bile, JT style, made by our head chef Pandralisk?

So... they created a crappy game, got crappy reviews, are now releasing what will likely be a crappy expansion, so for press they're suing the blogosphere. Hope that works out for them...

Guys, the pre-emptive vitriol isn't really helping anyone. I'd respectfully request toning it down.

I'm forced to agree that there's no such thing as bad publicity when you don't have any to begin with. They have nowhere to go BUT up.

I take comfort in the knowledge of their inevitable failure.

I agree with Deus. Would seem a weak (and probably) cheap attempt at generating interest in what is likely to be a sucky title. The religious side to it adds a whole world or controversy and bile. Tell me again btw why the Left Behind folks wanted to be seperated from Jack they spew much the same.

What gets me at this is sent to a gamers blog, gamer blogs have gamers and gamers tend to look past the deeper "meaning" of a game (the meaning that JT would dredge out) and just play. So it seems doubtful gamers would bash the thing on theological terms... its just likely to be a repeat of weak game.

Surprised nobody has yet commented on the "Marketed to Children" comment.

How was this game marketed to children? It was barely marketed at all.

And now their marketing strategy seems to consists of pissing off web sites that didn't like the game, just so they might mention the product again.

VaMinion Says:
This reeks of “we want free publicity” to me. They have to know they can’t shut people up like that and that even if they could, the backlash would catapult the story into the public eye.

This reeks of "let's not become the butt on the internet's jokes again thanks to our expansion pack." Terrible games (and even good ones) get ripped apart all the time on blogs, it's just the nature of them.
I'm of GameClucks thinking, when was this marketing directly to children?

Rather than spending the cabbage on lawyers to try to suppress the negative press around the game, why not spend it on developers and make a game that doesn't suck, which may be able to generate positive press? Not that it would really help, games based off good movies or books tend to be terrible, and the Left Behind series is, well, if a thousand monkeys were working on making Shakespeare, the series would be compiled from what they threw at each other when they got tired of typing.

They’ll all sue your ass unless you play nice- not that they have to.

They must be reading the Jack Thompson book on how to be a media success, sue anyone who says anything you don't like.

If you actually sent that e-mail, that would make you a serious douchebag.

What are you hoping to gain from that? To prove yourself superior to a guy who's just doing his job (albeit not competently)?

Honestly, the "just doing his job" thing doesn't move me. When lawyers use frivolous threats to try to suppress free speech, I'm in favor of ridiculing them.

Really, I'm starting to think this is just a sad trend in our society. Someone says or does something you don't like, they sue. It's like saying you have the right to silence anyone who works against you. And let's be honest here: Does anyone really think (meaning the company) that much will come of this? There will always be dissent against certain thing in life. We can't very well shut down the whole internet.

-Mike Schwinger

Since Pandralisk doesn't seem to have posted his usual Hatin', I'll do a post which I think accurately depicts what he would say.

"Do you all seriously think Left Behind Games are the only ones threatening blogs who say a word against them? Oh, no, no nonono. ALL Christians, or, should I say, bible-thumping bigots, spam blogs with cease-and-desists, even if the topic isn't even about Christians! And why? Oh, it's all because of their Bronze-age war-god, who EATS BABIES, and TORTURES PUPPIES.

Their God also secretly lives on earth, as a profoundly gay black man with a hot pink afro and baby blue facial hair named Stan. He lives in Downtown New York, is married to a dustbin called Jim-Bob, and plays STRIP POKER WITH THE DEVIL on saturday nights.

It's all proven in the bible. Really."

:D

"Nor should we sit silently when a game is marketed to children promoting religious violence" That old line again? Sigh it's no wonder you are getting sued. Really I've never seen the game advertised at all. Perhaps these guys think the big M means "marketed to minors."

Now why doesn't Rockstar do this to news outlets that claim they're products have rape and encourage violence against police officers.

Okay then can I make a game where I have atheist, muslims, and jews killing all the christians or attempt to convert them?

Better yet lets have the atheist try to evolve all those that believe in a higher being. During an Apocalypse.

Muslims force people to make people take trips to Mecca.

For the Jews, well it would almost be the same game.

Maybe for the Buddhist we just have them burn everyone that doesnt reach enlightenment.

offended? I wonder why? maybe I should do a find and replace with the left behind description and see if people get offended.

I'm Zach, the guy who posted the stuff at Gameology and got the emails for it. I just wanted to note that I don't think the email above from Ex-Fed helps. I appreciate that you're enthusiastic about this, but we don't need to call out Mr. Katz personally on this. Whatever role he had in deciding on or recommending this course of action, it's the organization on whose behalf he is acting that we should be concerned about.

And I'll just re-iterate the gist of my blog post, which is that while we (as bloggers, commenters, citizens, whatever) should rightly protest attempts to chill free speech, it is possible to break the law by saying or writing something false and damaging about someone or something. So while it's important to me to criticize games that have problems, it's more important to me that I be honest, which is why I'm asking for specific cases where they think I've been dishonest. I have to be willing to let them tell me where they think I'm mistaken if I expect them to listen to the problems I have with the game. And, for the record, the problems I have are its representations of minorities and women. Based on what I've played, I can't say truthfully that I think it promotes a "kill or convert" message, at least not as overtly as some have been describing it. Someone probably could make that argument, but it's not what I'm arguing.

Also, Ron Brynaert is correct that as far as we know, Daily Kos has not received a letter. Someone there just diaryed about the phenomenon of other sites getting the letter. Kotaku, for example, got it seven times.

zach

Guys... we are talking about a game that was an one of the most epic fails ever, to the point even jackie-boy thought as much. Don't worry about it.

BTW, has anyone here actually read any of their books or seen any of their movies?

@ Internet Hate Machine

I tried reading one of the books, but it was god-awful pulp. Next time I'll stick with slamming my nuts in a door. The experience is preferable.

i dont think it was marketed

[...] According to a story posted on Gamepolitics this morning (which had links to other sources) LBG is still going out of their way to convince bloggers that “EF” is being misrepresented… only this time, they’re backing it with legal force. Several people have been hit up with angry letters demanding that false information be deleted, lest they face consequences. [...]

Haha, Left Behind is such a beautiful depiction of Christian hate, superstition, and "vales."

Pandralisk says:

"Haha, Left Behind is such a beautiful depiction of Christian hate, superstition, and “vales.” "

What's this? The Jack Thompson of religion finds a negative portrayal of Christianity to be beautiful? Why am I not surprised?

im sorry for repeating myself

how the hell . . . this was a horrible horrible game

what the hell were they smoking when they decided to make a sequel???!!!!

@Nekowolf

that makes sense

@Pandralisk

SHUT UP SHUT UP,SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!!

I am seriously sorry that you cannot see yourself for the hateful person you are, but you ARE exactly as bad as JT. Instead of acknowledging that there are good ,well meaning christians out there, you settle for the "guilty until proven innocent" frame of mind and make the exact same fucking type of blanket statements JT does.

When did Pandralisk surface here? I've been mostly a lurker for some time now, but this is the most hatred towards Christianity I've ever seen.

@kurisu7885

I'm long overdue for saying this to you(didn't want to end up saying something outrageously stupid), but thanks for time and again showing the most prevalent kind of both atheism and agnositicism, that is, level-headed and respectful of others. You're one of the great many good ones. It's the vocal and hateful ones like Pandralisk and JT that give both sides a bad image.

@Kuri

Wheee, perhaps if you actually read the content of the messages listed above, you might realize that I am not positing any judgements on Christians. Let me show you the distinction:

I am positing values CONTAINED IN THE BIBLE on the ficiticious entity that Christians, Jews, and Muslims purportedly worship (ie, talk to themselves). Most Christians are "good" people (in a VERY rough sense of the term) but choose to remain ignorant -- or hold beliefs that contradict -- the values and religion they claim to believe in.

Christians seem to take my arguements about the nature of God -- again, look to your Bibles and read about the most vindictive, evil, murderous, child-killing, and backwards ficticious creature ever dreamed up by man -- and go into some sort of shock. I am not attacking Christians: I am attacking their absurd and evil values, which they seem to forget, neglect, or acknowledge only when convient.

@Pandralisk,
If you can show me a passage that god does not have mercy i can show you one where he does. Just because mercy isn't extended in all situations doesn't make one merciless.
As for sick? as defined by you? please point out where he is sick.
Genocidal child killing and murderous would can all be stated in the same text and serves as nothing more than you trying to find more BAD words to make your flame bait longer.
I would also like to debate your idea of eternal damnation. I am a christian myself and from what i've read, there is no eternal damnation other than eternally not existing. How is NOT giving some one eternal life threatening them?
Your term zombie is also just used in an inflamatory sense, look up what a zombie is. (hint; it is not just someone coming back to life)
But please if you can point out causality, DO SO!!!! You say you are more than happy, no back that up. Cause I haven't seen you do it.

Come on guys. The Holy nature is a gift to us from God, and now that we are in it we can expect good loving actions from each other, and those in the human nature, well we can expect selfish, hateful and other sinful actions from. So lets guide them to the nature that is please to our Father, and let the light of Yeshua (Jesus) shine through us :)

May God Bless all of you,
Your brother, Cliff Harris

@pandralisk,
Did you stop to think about what your saying before you spout your diatribe?
Are you trying to tell me that a person who does extend mercy in some situations, is merciless due to another situation that they do not? (JT logic)
Lake of Fire, oooh, you picked the biggest difference between what I and my religion believe and what somebody else does. Dang you just stereotyped my religion and attack it, without knowing anything about it. (like JT)
Now on to the Lake of Fire issue.
God doesn't have a fire burning now in some place termed “hell” where sinners go at death.
2Peter 3:10 says - “the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire and the EARTH AND EVERYTHING IN IT WILL BE BURNED UP.
2Thessalonians 1:8,9 in speaking of the lost states “…they will be PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION and shut out from the presence of the Lord.” Notice it does not say EVERLASTING DESTROYING but everlasting destruction. This means that their destruction lasts forever, there will never be a chance of them coming back to life. Another verse in Matthew 25:46 speaking about the same event says “…these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT.” Notice it does not say EVERLASTING PUNISHING. The fate of the wicked is a punishment that last forever, one from which there is no return, no appeal, etc.
Romans 6:23 which says “the WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH,” not eternal life in hell.
Malachi 4:1,2 describe this scene “…it will burn like a furnace and every evildoer will be stubble and that day that is coming will set them on fire,…they WILL BE ASHES UNDER THE SOLES OF YOUR FEET.

But then again Pandralisk, you seem to think that christians all believe the exact same thing, and you know what they believe.
And know Pandralisk most everybody pities you, not because you do or do not have religion, but that you are a sad sad troll.

[...] Left Behind Games Gets Apocalyptic with Bloggers [GamePolitics.com via Game|Life (I stole your image, Chris!)] [...]

"So, what did these bloggers say? Unless they said, “by playing this game you are worshiping Satan and WILL be going to hell”, I can see no valid reason for a lawsuit."

How about if they said, "This game teaches believers that they need to either convert or kill non-believers"? In fact, that's exactly what many bloggers have said, and it's patently false. Such falsehoods can and probably did hurt the company, much as false claims of bacterial contamination or deliberate poisoning of a food product would hurt the company that produces it.

A brilliant scientist once said we do not even know 1/100,000,000,000 to the 10 billionth power of anything in the universe. Interestingly however... to make a claim like the silly athiestic "There is no God" would mean that you would have to know 100,000,000,000/100,000,000,000 to the 10 billionth power of everything in the universe.

that athiestistic view would also to also completely ignore that everything in the univerese is governed by a set of laws. The laws of gravity, motion, or physics just to name a few. And these laws which are constistant, unaltering, and unfailing prove that an All knowing, All Powerful, and All Present God not only exists, but is still at work in the universe.

God loves you Chuck. you should check out needhim.org, or call 1-888-NEED-HIM if you want to learn how to have a real meaningful relationship with Him.

With much love (Agape)
Cliff Harris

ok i'm going to bed last correction... :) i meant

UNIVERSE

ok good night, and much love to all of you :)

Cliff Harris

Um... Cliff. HOW does the fact the universe follows strict laws prove that a God exists? Couldn't the universe simply follow laws just because the laws simply ARE?

All you say is that a universe following rules proves there is a god. That doesn't prove squat.

/not atheist, but tired of the religious using weak or non existent logic

Some random thoughts...

Cliff, you've just used the agnostic line of reasoning to try to prove the existence of God. It really doesn't prove anything, it just says that there is more to existence than we currently understand.

And random thought #2... I know how Left Behind got enough money to pay the lawyer fees. The CEO switched to Geico savings him tons of cash!

[...] Left Behind Games, makers of (somewhat controversial) religiously themed real-time strategy games based apparently isn’t happy that its video games were reviewed negatively across the blogworld. So, they did what any video game company would do: they improved their game. Oh… no, they didn’t. As pointed out by reader Grey, they simply pulled out the lawyers and threatened to sue a bunch of bloggers for posting “false and misleading” content about the games. Of course, opinions can’t be either false or misleading, so they’ll have quite a case on their hands. In the meantime, perhaps this was merely an attempt at a reverse “Streisand Effect” as the attempt to take down those negative reviews is simply getting a lot more attention on those negative reviews. Whether or not that leads to sales is another story… [...]

sorry i meant everything in existance is subject to very precise laws, (not that everything is matter, time and energy at once) :)

Did I actually see some people defending the dipwad lawyer who sent the threatening letters as just "a hired hand"?

That's pathetic. I'm a lawyer and if you're defending the twit attorney who sent those letters as some sort of "innocent" go-between, well, you're just a fxcked-in-the-head moron of shall we say Biblical proportions.

Get a clue. And get off your high horses.

"to make a claim like the silly athiestic “There is no God” would mean that you would have to know 100,000,000,000/100,000,000,000 to the 10 billionth power of everything in the universe. "

Yes, but I claim that Jesus Christ and his dad are nothing but mindless robots designed by Grattulartfartattack to clean out his invisible but stenchy butthole for all eternity. And for you to claim that Grattulartfartattack does not exist would mean that you have to know 100,000,000,000/100,000,000,000 to the 10 billionth power of everything in the universe PLUS ONE. That makes you the stupidest and most arrogant person in the whole world.

Argue your way out of that one, shxt-for-brains.

[...] Left Behind Games Gets Apocalyptic with Bloggers [GamePolitics.com via Game|Life (I stole your image, Chris!)] [...]

[...] Left Behind Games, a company making religiously-themed computer games, were annoyed by the negative reviews that their games were getting, so they usmanoved some bloggers. As a result, the negative coverage of their games got more publicity. [...]

[...] Hasta ahí todo pasaba como se suponía, de hecho el tema es de algunos meses atrás, tanto así que Orlando Inagas ya la había abordado hace un tiempo, sin embargo, lo que hace escándalo hoy en la blogósfera y agrega un nuevo elemento a la discusión es que los creadores del juego han amenazado a los bloggers que han criticado negativamente a su juego con acciones legales en su contra. [...]

i really wish we could edit our posts :)

the part of my last post
I meant...

"A really sad thing, is that alot of the world is like the little kid that is having so much fun playing in a rain puddle that they don’t want to leave with their family to go Disney World for the first time…"

And the first part of the 1st paragraph I meant design not designs

sorry :)

"A brilliant scientist once said ..."

Who? When? The context? What did other 'brilliant' scientists think about his statement?

"to make a claim like the silly athiestic “There is no God” would mean that you would have to know 100,000,000,000/100,000,000,000 to the 10 billionth power of everything in the universe."

And how much of the Universe do you need to be an expert on to be fully convinced that we were all created by a supreme being less than 6000 yrs ago?

sorry.. it didn't post right

continuing...

the about 6000 year... I never really counted the exact number of years, but it can be done by counting the years each person lived that are listed in the geneology of the Bible, but it probably is somewhere under 12,000 years old, and here is why.

I'd say God created the earth at a mature age,
And the Bible does gives support to this when God created Adam as a full grown mature man, not as a child first. And Jesus turned water into wine, not grape juice first. Why would God wait 500 million years for the earth to form when He is All Powerful?

Well if He did, did God do it by speeding up time on the earth by 500 million year / second?

or did He carefully lay everything out so we can we see them? I'd say He carefully laid things out for us to see, and appreciate. And I am glad He did. The earth is a very beautiful place, He did a perect Job on it. The sunsets, the waterfalls, And the mountains. Think about the probability of the earth forming randomly into being such a perfect place. Take into consideration, the distance from the sun, the moon's distance and gravitational influence, the gasses in the atmosphere tht make it breathable for life, the axis the Earth changes *JUST* enough on, all of the metals so close to the surface, the patterns of colors, shapes, and sounds, our feelings of love, charity, and self conciousness, it is ridiculous that people have been decieved into thinking this all happened by itself. Life itself is a COMPLETELY awesome gift of God and it is even MORE awesome when He comes into it personally. And that is what being a Christian is all about, us being with God. He loves us unconditonally, no matter what we have done, or how big or how small, how thin or fat, it doesn't even matter how successful or well dressed we are. He loves each of us individually, and He made each one of us unique as He wants us. And when we come to Him willfully, and recieve what He has for us, that is when you start the adventure of your life. :)


with much love,
Cliff Harris

[...] Left Behind Games Gets Apocalyptic with Bloggers. Games and religion very rarely mix well, Left Behind being a prime example. Left Behind is an RTS/RPG hybrid based on the series of books by the same name and has on overtly evangelical Christian message. The publishers, Left Behind Games, have been throwing legal threats around the blogosphere because they’re not happy with the reception the game has been getting. My advice to them is this, don’t make a crap game and then expect to get away with it. [...]

A man is trying a very unusual way to propose to his girlfriend. He wants people to forward an email to as many people as possible and he hopes that it will eventually get to his girlfriend. Details here: http://www.proposal-to-mary.com

Here is what he wants people to send by email:

------------- SNIP (email text end) ---------------

For a long time I have tried to find a special way to propose marriage to my girlfriend Mary, whom I know for five years now. I wanted it very special, romantic and memorable, something our grandchildren would still remember.

And here is my idea: I will send out the proposal to Mary to 50 complete strangers, people I don't know - hoping, that they will forward my proposal to as many people as possible, which in turn forward it etc. And some day, I hope, it will reach Mary, after it has travelled a very long way. I know, it will take a long time and I am quite nervous…

From the poem MY Mary will know immediately that the proposal is for her.

I have created a homepage ( http://www.proposal-to-mary.com ) where you can find the current status of my quest. You can use the homepage to check if the proposal has already reached Mary (in that case it is not necessary anymore to forward the mail).

Once the proposal has reached Mary, I will put a note on these pages. Also I will publish there how many people have read the proposal so that everybody can see how far it has spread and that it is getting closer to Mary.

And of course you will find there what I am waiting for most: Mary's answer! I can't tell you, how nervous I am… Will she accept my proposal? Will she like the unusual way how she got it, through the hands of thousands of messengers all over the world?

Please cross your fingers for me! And please - help me by sending the mail to as many people as possible, to help it spread, so that it eventually reaches Mary.

And here is my proposal:

Mary, please forgive me, as you know English is not my native language. And I am not a poet. But I mean it from my heart.

My angel,

Five years ago, I will always remember the day When fate made us meet, blissful Alaskan moments in May Earth spun around us and a journey began Love, warmth, happiness, enough the years to span.

The longer it lasts the more grows our bond And with 80 still - of you I will be fond Whatever happens, I will stay at your side Through good and bad, together let us stride

No second with you was ever wasted
You are the sweetest I have ever tasted
We have spent so many years - why not a life?
Mary, will you marry me - and become my wife?

Mary, if you have received that and have recognized me, then give me a sign so that I can continue with the romantic part of my proposal…

------------- SNIP (email text end) ---------------

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