I have problems with ppl playing Halo 3 because if it's anything like the first two it's probably really overrated and not that good... other than that I can definitely see how it can build a nice community and group of friends, just kind of wish they picked a game that was good.

@Phoenix

1. Big bang theory? I believe you are referring to a scientific assumption concerning the expasion of the universe from a point of sigularity [which has yet to be explained]: a claim with universal and binding connotations, a claim that attempts to describe. The claim itself is supported by a limited collection of emperical observation. Emperical observation, due to our limited scope and metaphysical indeterminancy, cannot be trusted to establish, with certainty, the origins of our universe.

Consequently, as you've said, our minds are not capable of passing judgment (with the current facts and "truth finding" methods avaliable to us) on a naturalistic theory rooted in emperical unity. Thank you for implicitly illustrating the absurdity that occurs when we jump from natural judgments to supernatural judgments.

2. The question is not concerned with the free will argument. The topic on hand is that God personally commited actions that define our conception of evil. Even if I were to entertain the free will argument, you will eventually fall into a critical delimma: the human condition does not permit or logically allow the existence of a diety that claims to possess ALL of the following attributes: all-knowing, all-good, all-just (all attributes are posited on God, by man, in the Bible; the contradictions are too numerous to list).

Christian dogma penetrates virtually every facet of society: http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/AntiXtian.htm (my favorite parody). Allowing supersition to exist without critique, when it exists solely because it is indoctrinated or terrorized into the ignorant, is not a viable option for an ethical person.

firstly let me quote

"This whole sorry approach to youth ministry smacks of absolute desperation and fear - fear that if we are not relevant, we cannot attract a crowd. Is this really what Jesus would do? I don’t think so..."

im not very religious, infact i down right hate christianity, or atleast the way it is being taught but thats not what im talking about. jesus did make his points relevant to people because without relevance people do not learn, he used parabols, like the mustard seed and all that other crap.

personally i find it hilarious because whether gamers like it or not and im a gamer by the way. the game is violent, you shoot people, people die. the game premotes teamwork and community but it is still violent. again i went to the midnight launch so dont get angry with my comments i love the game. christianity is about community, but using games as a medium to spread their beliefs is not the way to do it.

the declining of religious youths means one thing, we as a society are becomming more and more detached from spirituality, even those that say they are christian or muslim or hindu or buddhist arent following because they chose to but because it is tradition, because their parents or community believed one thing and gradually the little voice in thier heads that questioned what they truly believed was squashed and follow the crowd because they cannot deal with change and frankly dont give a damn

[...] happyliving wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptIf a church has specifically made it its mission to be culturally relevant to today’s youth, if you’re eliminating video games as an option, you’re highly limiting the tools you can use to reach out. Another reader, Jake, adds: … [...]

“This whole sorry approach to youth ministry smacks of absolute desperation and fear - fear that if we are not relevant, we cannot attract a crowd. Is this really what Jesus would do?”

Didn't he miracle up loaves and fishes for them?

[...] You can read the rest here: http://gamepolitics.com/2007/10/08/faith-community… [...]

"Secondly… I do have a major problem with a game that takes endless hours to play, or win, and is so absorbing that it encourages the worst sort of narcissism…"

How long would it take someone to read a book that was as long as say, oh, THE BIBLE?

Going by what these guys say, if Jesus were alive today he'd probably have an N-Gage.

I'm personally in favor of the whole idea of reaching out to kids via Halo, speaking as a Christian.

Whilst I don't have any objection to the more awesome among the pastors doing things like playing halo with the kids and generally building a community around activities that kids actually enjoy these days, It's a road that should be tread carefully lest the entertainment becomes the sole focus.

With regards to Halo 3, I have to agree with one of the marines riding shotgun with me last night as I plowed through a horde of ghosts and choppers in a tank.

"I think his violence is *artfully* done."

Jesus: S'up man, I was fragging like a mofo on Halo 3 last night, and it taught me to love my fellow gamer yo.
Gamer: Right on J-man.

I don't see it somehow.

@GoodRobotUs

"Didn’t he miracle up loaves and fishes for them?"

I think the modern equivalent would be if he could miracle up a finished copy of Duke Nukem Forever. That might get people listening.

I happen to agree with Pandralisk's post. Why does everyone flame him? He's not attacking any of you, just people's antiquated and flawed beliefs.

@Pandralisk

Dude, please just stop. You're as bad a bigot as JT and its just as productive. If you have something relevant to say, please do; but if all you're going to do is troll and spout your typical myopic vitriol please do it elsewhere.

As long there isn't any molestation going on i don't really care.

^^ I can see the wit and humor in that.

Can't really blame the Churches for their desperation. Christianity's becoming less and less relevant (thankfully) as is evidenced by the decline in its number of followers, especially in first-world Europe. Will be a mostly dead religion by the turn of the century (give or take) and Yahweh can join Zues, Odin, and all the thousands of other obsolete gods. I'm more worried about Islam's recent sharp increase in popularity, really. Whatever their outreach program is, it must be working.

On a brighter note, at least kids are getting free Halo parties.

@Pandralisk,
I have no idea how you came upon the ideas of Christianity. I never went to a church like that, and none of the people i know went to a church like that. I am so sorry that you had to experience that sort of thing, but the majority isn't like that. The majority also doesn't make headlines, because it isn't like that. Again I am sorry you had bad experiences and had to go through that. And if you haven't stop talking out your ass.

watch out for the upcoming story on a 10-year old kid jumped to his own death in a tragic suicide spurred from his parents banning videogames from him. Caught the story on digg.

I have no problem with using a videogame for a youth ministry to connect to kids.

But not an M-Rated game.

Pendralisk: Your second name "Nekowolf" means "cat-wolf". You're an idiot.

myrpok: That IS Nekowolf. not Pandralisk. I kind of feel embarrased for you now.

Honestly, a christian could cure cancer, and Pandralisk would still find a way to twist it into a negative.

oh, I get it. He's being "satirical" of Pendralisk.


It's still just adding crap to the forum in my opinion.

I don't know why people have such a big problem with this. Seriously what is wrong with a child going to church? I went as a kid...and while I don't really believe in the religion now I learned something very important. You see there was a brother there who was just insanely nice. I mean I could never believe how nice he was...so much so that one time I was being a brat and said hey give me 10 bucks. That brother reached in his wallet and gave it to me and said "If you need it more then me I would be happy to". That stuck with me throughout my life...and I came to the conclusion(later in life) that religions as the "church" as a whole sees it is not what religions are about. What it is about is simply what most teach loving your fellow man and being a good person.

The fellow running these games to get childrens attention sounds a lot like the guy I'm talking about in that sense. The brother used to run all sorts of events to draw in kids...HUGE water gun fights where he would buy a ton of water guns for any child who couldn't afford his own or walked in off the street. Just all sorts of things like that to get childrens attention because at the time thats what kids did. Kids are playing video games now...so its only common sense.

Most of what Pandralisk says is actually quite valid, only he tends to exaggerate things and uses a tone that discourages anyone from taking him seriously.

@myrpok

My name has a self-spiritual meaning to it. I know full well what neko is and what my name translates to. And so what? Is it any worse than we posts? Or when JT trolls? Or other anonymous people? If I want to parody an asshole, I will whether you may like it or not. It's not something I often do, either.

@Adam B.

And that's why I don't. I don't mind someone who is atheist; it's when they push it too far, like him. There's a difference from intelligent argument, and simply bashing and flaming. Apparently, both fanatic religious and atheists don't seem to understand the difference.

While Pandralisk might be hyperbolic and elitist to the point of not much redeeming value, I find that the reactions to him are more telling. He shines a thin, thin ray of truth into a very dark and scary place that Cradle-Christians and Christians-of-Convenience really don't like to, or just mentally can't, look into.

To the article: I'm ok with Churches playing Halo or whatever, as long as they own-up to the fact that many, many mainstream games are not Christian (including Halo, really). I really detest the Christanizing of things not Christian, like the dumbass in the previous article making a Tolkien allusion. Tolkien has gone on record in his forward to the Fellowship that anyone reading symbolism into his books is looking for things he didn't put in there, calling his books, "Just good stories." I guess I'd be grasping at straws, too, if I was a member of a dwindling, increasingly sectarian, congregation.

Witherington's position seems to preclude any sort of competition. I don't know of a youth group that doesn't play volleyball or basketball or softball or some other sport with low equipment cost to attract the kids.

@Korax

You'd love Baptist Christianity. Exactly the same point.

Ha I can see by the responses that religion itself is hotly debated or rather touchy subject.

So they are trying appeal to the youth with something thats popular. Well thats what parents try to do with there children but anyways.

The argument here seems to be based around whether religion is good or bad thing. And of course the Christians will say its a good thing. But then it would be a different story if it was the Muslims or the Hindus.

I bet people will have a problem with Muslims relating to the youth through halo.

Remember just replace Christian with Muslims, Democratic with Republican, black with white, and vice versa. And then see if u get offended.

F**ked up,

Sorry, but I need to point out that I am Christian and I oppose this wholeheartedly. The difference is between people who confuse Capitalism with Christianity (the megachurches) and the people who actually know what Christianity is.

@ Pandralisk haters

I've apologized for any direct attacks I've made on ChristianS. I will not apologize for simply positing Biblically explicit values on the diety contained in your religious tradition: as I've said many times, I apologize that your religion is so full of contradiction, hate, and superstition. Please do not mistake my critique of your superstition as an attack against intellect. Most Christians are mentally competent people; they have simply been threatened, coerced, indoctrinated, or remain ignorant of a religious tradition. Ignorance and stupidity are two entirely different concepts. And yes, most Christians are ignorant of the fact that the bronze age tribal war god they worship does kill children, command rape, endorses slavery, and commits acts so ethically deplorable that few dieties can approach his horror.

I think that exposing a child to religion before they so much as graduate high school is as deplorable, exploitive, and presumptious as exposing a child to hardcore porn and violence.

Luring them in with the "candy" of the day represents an unethical, contradictory, and ridiculous action... especially when a game like Halo explicitly contradicts Christian superstition.

I can see where people are opposing this as advertising for the church. When I went to small Assembly of God church with my friend they would have a game night, we of course being gamers decided to do Halo 2 and the church had no problem with it.

I know some will say "Violence" and simulated killing but are these not the same things we say have no affect on people in real life? Suddenly when religion comes into play violence affects us?

Now for the people talking about brainwashing, when I was little my parents took me to church and we were heavily involved, did I continue to keep going? No. It wasn't until about a year ago that I decided to go back to church and get my life back together thanks to a good friend of mine. You will actually find me to be a very open minded Christian, I refuse to judge anyone by their religion and accept people for who they are and what they want to do with their life, like I tell alot of people it's not my place to interfere in someone's life, I will act as a example and if they choose to follow and learn more that is their choice.

@Phoenix

No, I won't allow the Judeo-Christian artifical (and contradictory) value of "turn-the-other-cheek" dispatch my right to subject the beliefs of other people to fair and unbiased critcism. I'll say to you what I say to all dogmatic theists: defend your butchered, warrantless, arguments in a way that either makes your belief in "God" logically, ethically, metaphysically, or epistmologically valid.

Good luck accomplishing this task under the tenents of Judeo-Christian superstition.

@ Pandralisk

1. Big bang theory, completely true. Now ask where that explosion came from. The world was not created in seven days, it was written that way so that people thousands of years ago could understand. After all, the bible was written my man. There are certain things even we at our stage of evolution cannot understand. For example, try to wrap you head around something that has no beginning...for our brains it's unfathomable, but we aren't exactly to most intelligent beings now are we.

2. "How can God allow this to happen?" Gave humans the freedom of choice. If someone chooses to kill a bunch of people, that's his choice and it affects others, God is no where in that equation. Even though he has the power to stop it, it would affect our freedom of life and choice, and that would be a little biased don't you think. I wouldn't want a biased God, would you?


See, that was easy, considering I'm an Agnostic Theist. Though I fail to see your logic in trying to force your beliefs onto others if you so oppose Christians doing the same thing... a little hypocritical I think.

Quoth the Phoenix, evermore...

@Phoenix, Filmmaker

Touche mate. Touche.. (Anyone have the alt code for the french E that I should have used there?

You know I find it interesting that all this time on this site people argue that even violent games don't lead to violence. Yet you mix it with religion and suddenly people think its evil? Halo is by far(in my opinion of course) one of the more cartoony fps's(in theme). If the church were using something like manhunt I could understand, but come on halo?

@Korax

And I completely agree that religion can be taken too far, but that is usually push by the family of said person. I've known a few people like this in my life, but in the end isn't the message most churches are trying to give "be a good person"...personally I don't see anything wrong with that message. Though I will say that free thinking should also be encouraged, but that is the job of the family of the child. It appears that most of your problem with religion comes from the fact that your family made you feel pressured about it...and that I will agree is bad.

@GameClucks

Is that Monty Python? 'Cause it sounds to be in that Calibre.

@ someguy

Those few points I've mentioned are some of the things taught before first communion, not by family, just to clarify. As has been said in other posts, those are personal experiences being shared.

Being a good person is nice, but again, when you see churches worrying more about "luring" the "fish" with the "bait" than about charity, there isn't much to believe in the institution, is there? Of course, there was a time, when christians were hunted down and killed, and even then they tended sick people in the roman empire (lepers, if I'm not mistaken, but maybe others as well) who were left isolated to die (and also to avoid spreading the diseases). That was the true spirit. But then they started to accumulate power, and it pretty much went to hell. (I might me horribly mistaken about those words, but I remember being told this story in a history class some 12 years ago. If I'm wrong, please correct me and I apologize).

For last, I think that the "evil" is exactly what's mentioned in one of the first posts. Most religions stereotype and alienate games and gamers (I'm aware I can't escape stereotyping as well while making this statement). It's hypocrisy.

*sigh* That's why I avoid these kind of things. "Arguing on the internet is like the special Olympics, even if you win, you're still retarded." Besides, ignorance with big words is still ignorance... wait, did I just come up with that...I want that quoted! Although I would like to point out to everyone that Pandralisk has actually gotten his point across without the use of insults (though not without sarcasm), and for that I tip my hat to you, Pandralisk. May we continue our verbal joust at another time...haha.

Anyways, let's get back on topic:
"When you play a ‘Versus’ sort of game, or in that sort of mode, you are in the first place setting up a scenario for individual winners and losers. There is nothing about this that builds community…"

Honestly, Halo is one of the best community builders out there. Everyone has fun and connect with one another during a match. My friends and I used to get four xboxs, four TVs, four rooms, and 16 people and we would all get into one match through system link. As fun as online is, it is better when you hear your friend shout out a random vulgarity from the other room right after you smack him down with the sword.

@ SolarisDeschain

Piss and vinegar indeed, although as many big words as he just said, there are actually sentences in there. I understood him, though like I said..."Ignorance with big words is still ignorance."

@korax

Well it seems we will just have to agree to disagree. While my experience with the church was relaxed and not so bad yours wasn't so great. So we are drawing off different experiences and coming to different conclusions. Doesn't mean either of us are right or wrong we just see things differently.

I'm an atheist - I'll say that up front. There's your full disclosure department.

On the one hand, I think Pandralisk has some valid points, though they are not presented in a manner that engenders them to acceptance by the undecided. For example, exposing someone to a belief system and threatening them with eternal damnation/torture if they question it before they're of an age to logically decide on their own what they want to believe is morally wrong, in my opinion. I know many people accept Christian beliefs as fact, and so then have no problem showing little Billy "The True Way" or whatever. I think this is a failing not with religion in general (though it is common with religion), but with the difficulty humanity has in stepping outside its own limited point of view.

On the other hand, many of Pandralisk's comments about the history of Christianity do not apply to Christians today. Like any belief system, it has evolved with society - thus the various sects. I don't know of any Christians these days that espouse the killing of children or rape. Historically that may be accurate - I don't know. I do know that currently, many of Pandralisk's accusations are out of date and therefore irrelevant.

I think using Halo3 for recruiting into a youth ministry is pretty hilarious, desperate, ineffective, and so on. The name connection never even struck me til today, but it makes me giggle even more.

But ya know what? I bet when they're in their LAN party group in the church basement, they're not screaming the usual kind of racist, sexist, homophobic vitriol that's become the standard argot of online gaming. If the church can inject a little civility into the experience, who am I to tell them they shouldnt?

As for Pandralisk ... how about we stop feeding the troll?

" This whole sorry approach to youth ministry smacks of absolute desperation and fear - fear that if we are not relevant, we cannot attract a crowd. Is this really what Jesus would do? I don’t think so…

If you have so little creativity or imagination that you imagine that the only way to appeal to youth is by appealing to their most base and basic fallen instincts, then get out of youth ministry - you haven’t got the tools for the task…"

So as a chruch if I do not limit myself to your limited imagination I can not be relevant to what you think preaching to the community is?
And you wonder why people think of some as brainwashing hives... "ZOMG burn all fiction tis evil...."

------------------------------------
"
When you play a ‘Versus’ sort of game, or in that sort of mode, you are in the first place setting up a scenario for individual winners and losers. There is nothing about this that builds community…

Secondly… I do have a major problem with a game that takes endless hours to play, or win, and is so absorbing that it encourages the worst sort of narcissism…

Thirdly, there are numerous studies out there to be had about how these games affect and indeed encode violent images on young brains in various ways that going to a movie that lasts an hour or so would not do."

So endlessly mindlessly going over the version of the bible you belive is somehow better than taking a break from it and being a community that can enjoy them selfs... not only do you not understand games but do not understand community dynamics....you can't keep the godly warth and fear on them all the time...they tend to become anal over new thoughts and ideas losening up and relaxing is not a bad thing ya know...
===========================================
"
My Super Nintendo helped me through a lot of seminary nights when I just didn’t feel like studying… As a pastor, I’ve had great times playing NFL Blitz and other games with the young people… But I wouldn’t feel right playing a game with gratuitous violence. I don’t know if Halo 3 is a case example or not. I did play Virtua Fighter 4 at church with a couple of my confirmands last Sunday night. Maybe that was a borderline call…"

Depnds on if the violence is in context games like VF/DOA/Tekken have realistic based martial arts(Soul cab has more power based) so its no worse than a R rated fight film with ultra low gore/blood, Halo is pretty much the same ,gears of war might be a bit OTT so would god of war all in all it depends on what the consisus is,don't rush to avoid it without knowing it.
-------------------------
chuck
nicely said for me it should not be abotu the context of the games/films but the mentality of the players/watchers if its civil and respectful and fun whats so bad about it.

copied from other halo thread...

@ Pandralisk haters

Since his posts are obviously intended to be inflamitory and are frequently off topic, I propose we ignore them. By writing long detailed agruments for him to respond to, you are only empowering him. He has some ‘need’ for attention and keeps coming back here because we give it to him.
This is a gaming website, not a religious philosophy (or history) site. If we ignore him long enough, he will move on to a better suited site to post his flaming rants.
I think the analogy to him as a religious JT is very apt with one difference. I find JT entertaining (in a sad way). Since I don’t enjoy Pandralisk’s rants (and he’s certainly not changing anyone’s opinion), I would rather not have him (or replies to him) clogging up the post.

Praise God and pass the ammo... i think thats what they said in Europe during my grandfather and great uncles war.

I'm finding it funny that they are using a game who's storyline is that Earth is being attacked by a group of religious zealots called the Covenant, that believe that the Forerunner artifacts are holy relics that will take them on a Great Journey into a sort of heaven. And they are waging a genocidal campaign against the 'heretical' humans.

@Roger

Yea, I noticed that too...like the Covenant are going on a Crusade to "cleanse" this world/universe...

Oh boy, they're going into a "games cause violence" debate over there, and using David Grossman as a credible source.

I'm still peeved that "over there", the Vet actually believes Grossman's claim that video games are used to "overcome the natural aversion to killing". Yeah, I read Grossman's book, to, but the difference was, I read it while I was Active Duty in the modern Army. His claims are outdated and presumptive--misassumptive--at best.

Sure, the military desperately hoped virtual practice would be effective enough we could switch to that instead of more expensive real ranges, but no such luck. Real guns with real targets are necessary, along with war games involving real people and play guns, to condition soldiers to fire to kill a threat that happens to be another human being.

I am so tired of people claiming normal videogames can teach us to become killers when even games designed for that purpose fail to do so.

I was thinking about this quite a bit as I was reading the comments. As I weighed all the offered points and compared them to my own, something started to dawn on me.

No matter what else can be discussed and pointed out, there is one single principle that I think makes this a good thing: socialization. Anything that fosters positive socialization among youth is a good thing in my mind. This does it in two ways:

1) Attracting kids to do something in the first place. If they're out playing Halo as the church, they're not sitting at home rotting (socially, emotionally, in personality), or out buying drugs or something on some street corner.

2) Churches are amazing places of social support. They provide people with groups, friends, support, things to do, etc. If kids go play Halo and decide they like the church while they're at it, it kind of creates a continuous effect of my first point.

Honestly, as long as those two factors remain positive and secure, I don't care about violence or indoctrination, or anything else anyone wants to argue about. I'd rather see the younglings getting some kind of social support other than Facebook or MySpace. Or those stupid "blog" things. Who seriously spends time on those things.....

-Mike Schwinger
PS - Much love to you all. The last like two lines are the only jokes in my post.

@ Kajex
i know there not real, i am a gamer, i know the difference between reality and fiction

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"

Would most certainly apply to a few posts here, lol. Un-freakin-canny how much so. Twain was a genius with words.

But on the subject - I have no problem with either Halo or Christianity, I like both. But I don't see how it really has any 'synergy'. Not because of ethics.

I mean - I like Ice Cream and Jim Beam - but a Jim Beam float it just out of the question... :) lol

"I mean - I like Ice Cream and Jim Beam - but a Jim Beam float it just out of the question… :) lol"

Jim Beam float, eh?

/me jots that down.

"Is this really what Jesus would do?"

Jesus went to Samaria. 'Nuff said.

I find it decidedly ironic that the church is embracing Halo of all games. I realize that they are mainly playing multiplayer, but the game's sole conflict stems from religious fanaticism. The overall theme of the game is that religious interpretations result in death, while a scientific approach saves the galaxy.

this is a desperate move from a way of life that will be obsolete in the next hundred years.

@ JesusFreak

" 'Nuff said."

The fact that you assume that your allusion is enough to settle this arguement smacks of the arrogance Pandralisk and others (myself included) are quite tired of. Guess what, a great many people have differing views on just WWJD (to coin the phrase) amongst the myriad Christian sects, let alone outisde them. The question of how to apply ancient, frequently dogmatic, texts (the Torah, Bible, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.) to an modern-era problem is not one so easily brushed aside.

Oh wait, it is easily brushed aside if you are a member of the only 'correct' answer to an age-old question with literally hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of anwsers. This absurd arrogance that pervades the underlying Judeo-Christian traditions in the US (and elsewhere) is the very reason for the backlash from people like Pandralisk (even though he is abrasive), who, for whatever reason, don't buy into the, "Because my belief system includes the 'We are the one true faith' clause, that means eveyone else is wrong," idea.

This entire discussion and debate has happened and been happening for years on a number of topics including (but not limited to):

1. Women wearing makup
2. Women wearing pants
3. Television and movies
4. Various forms of musical expression
5. Other misc fads, cultural shifts and trends

I am 37, but when I was 17, the leaders at my church were convinced that listening to any form of rock/metal (even the Christian variety) was a first class ticket to hell. My mom wore makeup when she was a girl ("barn paint" to the old folks of the day).

The scenario changes, but human nature does not. New things scare old people. Old things bore young people. Weak arguments like "thou shall not kill" are thrown out in desperation. I do believe the commandment means "you will not murder" - yet the failure to make contextual distinctions in human behavior mucks it up.

Humans are inherently competitive, clever, social creatures. We like violence - it is dramatic and compelling - so much so that it is woven into the threads of our religion. The language of Christianity is the language of war and battle. Young people long for heroes and the chance to prove themselves in a conflict of some form.

Why should we be surprised that Halo is so compelling? Why should we be afraid to enjoy it?

The real danger in video games comes when we use it as a proxy for success in real life. Maybe we beat Halo or amass vast wealth in WoW, but if we use that as our vehicle for finding significance in the world, then we are wasting our lives.

@ Pandralisk

While I don't necessarily agree with all your views, you seem very intelligent and know what you believe, for that I commend you. I would be interested in learning more about exactly what you believe and how you came to this beliefs.

@ everyone who is a 'christian' but who decided to bash Pandralisk because his views differ than yours

Is your faith really so weak, that you can't take some criticism. Do you really have to lash out, and defame another person because your so insecure about your own beliefs that you don't know how to defend them. He brings up valid points; the church is not perfect, never has been never will be. I've been in church's where the youth function one month would be to have a halo party. Is it wrong? Maybe. I don't know, it's one of those gray areas where the Bible isn't clear. What I do know is that I have never once felt guilty or convicted for pwning a friend, or a stranger even, online. So I guess that's what it comes down to personal conviction. There are other extraneous factors(Read 1 Corinthians 8 if you want an example) but for the most part it comes down to this. Can you love God while going around killing covenant troops? I don't see why not. But then again that's just me.


@ Everyone

The Bible says "Thou Shall Not MURDER", not "Thou Shall Not Kill", King David was a man after God's own heart, and he decapitated a dude. God never once in the bible condemned a person because they was killing in order to preserve their life, their country, or their family.

"My eight-year-old son, who is homeschooled and does not watch television, might think you are talking about three angels if you asked him if he wanted to play “Halo 3?. And, in this case, ignorance is bliss. God might be better served by encouraging by encouraging this type of innocence. "

So you've opted to raise your child to be not only socially inept, but also completely unprepared for reality. Kudos. Ignorance is NEVER bliss, asshat. Innocence isover-rated. Kids don't want it until they've lost it, and then they try to force it on their kids. It's a false, impossible ideal.

@ElFenix

Actually, I'm fairly certain the Ten Commandments say "Thou Shalt Not Kill", but I guess I might be wrong...

This is a travesty! Using video games as a gateway to religious cults is just wrong! It makes my skin crawl to think of Halo3 being defiled by these accursed witch doctors.

Religion is no worse than science or other things humans do when they group together, the trouble is people get passionate and then pee on them selfs with there own lack of perspective, lighten up people its just a book its just a game,if they wont let you in their tree house make you own and show them you can do it better amen and pass the duthcie!
LOL
=^0^=

When my dad grew up in Glasgow 65 years ago, they said the same thing about Soccer/Football as a youth activity.

Scratching your head as to why? So will they be about this one day.

Anyhow, my church group has international lan matches with partner churches in other continents, and it's brilliant :)

Frank Warner,

Radical Islam is trying. Hard.

rather than copy/past my response from my blog, I hope you don't mind me linking to it. Sorry for the self promotion.

My credentials however are Gamer and Pastoral intern. Yes, I work in a Baptist church AND I am a gamer.

my response: http://mrkniceguy.wordpress.com/2007/10/11/the-church-and-halo-evangelis...

[...] GamePolitics.com » Blog Archive » Faith Community Debates Halo 3 Youth Ministry Seriously, violent games in church. [...]

I think Halo can absolutely be a medium for Christ. Nothing in and of itself is good or bad-only the motives behind things can be good or bad.

There's a halo 3 community called Saved By Grace (http://sbgclan.com) that's one of the most prominent communities in the game and (if you couldn't tell by the name) a Christian community. They're popularity is so vast that they were even able to schedule a match with the makers of Halo (Bungie Studios) and have the match report posted on the Bungie homepage. They're in a very effective ministry position.