Common Sense Media CEO Trashes Manhunt 2; City Hall Press Conference Today

October 30, 2007
As the Manhunt 2 launch draws near, the hurly-burly over the controversial game shifts to San Francisco where watchdog group Common Sense Media will hold a 10AM press conference at City Hall.

On Friday GamePolitics reported that the organization was urging parents to boycott Manhunt 2. The game is scheduled to arrive in stores tomorrow.

There was a bit of an oops in CSM's Manhunt 2 bashing, however, as GP's Friday coverage pointed out. At least one gory scene detailed by the group - that of a police officer being decapitated by a shovel - apparently came from an early build of Manhunt 2 which was leaked online by an SCEE employee in September. A Rockstar press representative told GP the scene did not appear in the M-rated retail version of the game.

In the wake of Rockstar's denial, Common Sense Media issued a revised press release yesterday. The Associated Press picked up the story, which is now getting wide play in the mainstream media. CSM CEO Jim Steyer told the AP:
In my opinion, it's the most senselessly violent and offensive thing I've ever watched. It's disgusting. It's so violent, it struck me personally as pornographic violence.

The group acknowledged that the decapitated police officer image it released on Friday was from the leaked early version of the game:
Common Sense Media was able to download footage of an apparently unedited version of the game that is now available to download on the Internet. It is unclear which of the numerous gruesome scenes from the online version have been edited from [the retail version]...

CSM also wanted to know what changes were made by Rockstar that led to an M-rating from the ESRB:
Common Sense believes that parents, educators, and other consumers would benefit from knowing what specific parts of the game were edited or removed to get the rating reduced, but information about the re-rating process has been very limited. 

Meanwhile, the ESRB told the Associated Press:
[The M-rating] is a very clear and firm warning to parents that the game is in no way intended for children.

Publisher Take Two Interactive reiterated its denial that the police decapitation scene was in the retail version of Manhunt 2:
A spokesman... said the unrated version used a color encoding system common to Western Europe and could be played in the United States only using a Sony PlayStation 2 console modified without company permission.

Take Two media representative Ed Nebb told the AP:
The claim that an unreleased version of Manhunt is readily available on the Internet, and that children can easily download and play the unrated game, has not been proven.

At today's press conference in San Francisco, CSM will be showing video clips from the leaked version. From the CSM press release:
Common Sense downloaded a version of the game that is available online, and will be showing illustrative clips of that version to the press a day before the official title is scheduled to hit stores on Wednesday.

GP asked CSM if the location of the press conference at City Hall indicated that the San Francisco government was somehow getting involved, but a CSM representative nixed the idea. However, another source told GamePolitics that SF Mayor Gavin Newsome's press secretary is a former Common Sense Media employee.

California State Senator Leland Yee's district encompasses San Francisco as well, but a spokesman told GP that, as of last night, Yee was not involved.  Yee, of course, is the architect of California's 205 video game law, currently under review by the U.S. Circuit Court. Yee has previously weighed in against Manhunt 2.
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Re: Common Sense Media CEO Trashes Manhunt 2; City Hall Press

Common sense media my filthy @ss hole. more like

 

Common sense losers!!

 

Dan,
It should be. And in their press release, they admitted to criminal behavior. I'd say the police should be on hand to make immediate arrests. Let's treat them like the organized crime organization they openly admit to being. Damn pirates!

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Man Common Sense Media lacks, well common sense...

They are just like every other group of manics looking to pin the blame on something.

"Common Sense Media was able to download footage of an apparently unedited version of the game that is now available to download on the Internet. It is unclear which of the numerous gruesome scenes from the online version have been edited from [the retail version]…"

Wow, they just openly admitted to breaking the law...

Damn, managed to bugger that up.. Hold on a minute.

“it struck me personally as pornographic violence.”

I was under the impression that Dr. Lamb was not a Necrophiliac.

“Common Sense believes that parents, educators, and other consumers would benefit from knowing what specific parts of the game were edited or removed"

Possibly, but R* is under no obligation to disclose those details. You want to find out what the game is like? Go play it.

“[The M-rating] is a very clear and firm warning to parents that the game is in no way intended for children.”

That would have done on it’s own.

“showing video clips from the leaked version”

As in the version that isn’t going to be sold in the US tomorrow? Yeah, that’s real proof..

I think at this juncture the best course of action for CSM would be to put their tail between their legs, fade away on this issue, and pray that Rockstar doesn't bring litigation against them. That is rather than charge ahead after being proven to not have their facts straight by using information from an illegal, and earlier version of the game.

I would agree with everyone that has posted in here that Take Two/Rock* should sue/file criminal charges against Common Sense Media for using an illegal and earlier version of MH2. We all knew that when the leaked version was posted that someone was gonna try to use it against TT. Too bad its going to back fire on those asshats. Who wants to bet 5 USD that there will be a C&D filed to "CS"M, citing any and all activities are to be halted and be ready to be brought into court.

I am pleased to report that I spent time on the phone today with the Common Sense Media folks, and they're loaded for bear. Is this a great country, or what, when you can actually do something about predatory corporate practices!?

I love the smell of burning Zelnick in the morning! Hooah!

Jack Thompson

You know, saying that the unrated version of Manhunt is freely available on the Internet is like me saying that pornography is freely available at my local Mediaplay store because of the idea that I could sneak in and shoplift it on out.

That's not "freely available", that's me looking at the prospect of getting away with illegally obtained material.

@Juggernautz

I've reported CSM's breach of copyright laws in a couple of places now. The Libel part of the claim will have to come from Rockstar, but the ESA seriously needs to deal with this properly, to not do so would, as you say, create a bad precedent.

@NW2K
I meant that if your report to law enforcement about the CSM was written, can you provides us a copy of what you said in the report by a link or can you post it here?

More free publicity for Manhunt 2...and "Common Sense Media" is for parents who would rather have someone think for them, than do it themselves.

M= Mature.

I'm... I'm confused why a press conference needs to be held to explain that 0_o . (especially in reference to just ONE "M" rated game.)

The mind... it boggles.

And quit misusing the word "boycott" already CSM.

Pornographic violence? Obviously they've never seen Cannibal Holocaust.

@Lovely

Yes, they're holding a press conference to notify the public that the game is mature. Kinda makes you wonder what the rest of their schedule looks like...

Wednesday (31st)-Sky is Blue Press Conference 3:00 PM
Thursday (1st)-Black People Are Black and White People Are White Press Conference 2:30 PM
Thursday (1st)-Water Is Good For You 2:45 PM
Friday (2nd)-Special Presentation at the Glendale Boys and Girls Club Featuring Captain Obvious and Sidekick Common Sense

The "CS"M never had credibility(Steyer the Whiner only formed his Parent Trash Cult ripoff group after whining about Fox airing a Playboy special where the winner got to become a Playboy Playmate), and based on Steyer's lies, it's obvious the group never will have credibility, so considering he's never seen the real game, anything coming out of his mouth regarding the game is a lie.

Cannibal Holocaust? I don't want to know, do I? I'm going to laugh my ass off if the game flops anyway because it's, oh you know, a mediocre game. Then there will be groups going "We did it!" Yeah. Why don't you take credit for the lackluster sales of Deer Hunter, while you're at it? Oh yeah, it flopped because it sucks. Speaking of Deer Hunter, where's the public outcry against the violence there, huh?

Why do they keep insisting on knowing what was cut. They know at least one thing, the decapitation of the policeman with a shovel. That should be enough to show it was changed from the AO rated version.

Then of course, as has been mentioned many times over, where is the complaining about movies and how they re-rate movies and what was cut. Of course that doesn't matter because the unrated directors cut will just be released on DVD.

@ Distaria

What's so violent about hunting deer? ;)

wouldn't this be a good use of the DMCA? 0-o
they are using stuff from the illicit copy!
LOL

Having watched a video showing Manhunt 2's gameplay, I can understand why Jim Steyer is disgusted. This being said... well, it's Manhunt. You can hardly expect something else than an "ultra-violent" game, that, for once, deserves this adjective.

Distaria; because deer aren't human beings, and it's socially acceptable for a 5 year old (or however old you have to be to hunt) to shoot animals...

(I'm not being sarcastic toward you Distaria, I'm just trying to make a point...)

The game's out now. If they want otk now what's cut, PLAY IT FOR YOURSELVES!!!!

"Common sense" my ass.

Isn't downloading the game before the actual release (and then releasing information from it) very illegal?

All you have to do is check out the Common Sense Media website to realize how much of a finicky alarmist group they really are. This entire situation is childish. Why does CSM feel like they have to play tattle-tale and call a press conference just to tell people what they already know?

Apparrently, Common Sense Media is under the impression that "Common Sense" is so UN-common, that people must be told exactly what to think.

On the plus side for R*, the free press just keeps rolling in...

Dubbya Tee Eff....

"A spokesman… said the unrated version used a color encoding system common to Western Europe and could be played in the United States only using a Sony PlayStation 2 console modified without company permission."

Honestly, does this strike anyone else as the stupidest comment to come from a TT representative considering the scandal over Hot Coffee? So, you can still access the removed content with a minute amount of effort?

"The claim that an unreleased version of Manhunt is readily available on the Internet, and that children can easily download and play the unrated game, has not been proven."

O_o Are you kidding me?!?!?! I'm...I'm...speechless. I am Utterly and totally dumbfounded right now.

Impressive. I didn't know CSM even knew how to turn on a videogame. I hope they remembered to rewind their Nintendo tapes.

I find it funny that CSM admitted to ILLEGALLY downloading an ILLEGAL copy of a game and then ILLEGALLY saying the content is in the finished game.

It doesn't make good sense for TT to sue CSM (bad publicity), but boy do they have grounds...

@dan187

Isn’t downloading the game before the actual release (and then releasing information from it) very illegal?

Technically, if TT wanted to, they could slap around CSM for violating all sorts of DMCA stuff. But it would only give them more press time. And make TT look like they are trying to silence "the truth"... So yeah, illegal, but a minor issue.

"Common Sense downloaded a version of the game that is available online, and will be showing illustrative clips of that version to the press a day before the official title is scheduled to hit stores on Wednesday."

Irony on aisle five; repeat, irony on aisle five please.

Yeah... why you would name your group 'common sense' and lambast the media with your viewpoint is beyond me. If that viewpoint really is common sense, then the majority of people would already believe it, and would already advocate it en-mass sans grouping...

Hecatomb: I understand your point, but part of it is this: in many games you're not shooting people either, it's aliens or demons, things like that. In Doom, the only "people" are zombies. The entire rest of the "cast" are demons. In Halo, you're never tasked with shooting humans in the single/coop campaign. Yet these idiots are so quick to make it out like you're callously murdering your fellow man. They never take context into account. Even Postal has at least a semblance of a reason for your rampage.

Memo to CSM:
What is so "common sense" about exhibiting a leaked version of a game? I mean, why don't you show footage from the actual game?!

Memo to Jim Steyer:
Pornography applies to sex. There is no such thing as pornographic violence.

@dan187
Yes. The downloader can face hefty fines and jail time if convicted

I bet the industry turns a blind eye to THEIR blatant violation of the DMCA

Really I think TT should bring them to court, they'd have to prove that CSM downloaded an illegal version of the game (which they can prove) and CSM can scream and shout about "hiding the truth" all they want, they're not going to have much credibility about it though when they lose in court for having used an illegal version of the game that isn't going to be released to make their statements. The trial would have to be easy for the public to get information about (audio, transcripts, easy attendance, etc) but if enough people hear about it and CSM's illegal actions not many people are going to believe CSM when they say the lawsuit was "really to cover up the truth".

I know if someone came up to me talking about how violent a game is, well before it's release, showed images the game company said are not in the release version, then said person loses in court for having an illegal version of the game, I'd not believe much of what they say after that.

@ Jabrwock, MaskedPixelante and others saying TT would not go after the CSM

Why should they not? TT already looks like a bad guy in the eyes of the Soccer mom. Gamers would only support them in the task.

If they don't go after CSM for copyright violation, what message does that send to other nanny groups? That it is okay to circumvent the law when you are "protecting the children"?

Distaria, oh I totally agree with you; I was going for a sense of irony with my statement, but also tried to make an effort to explain myself so you didn't think there was any sarcasm toward you... Hecatomb = FAIL... Apologies... :)

@Lovely

Remember, people are idiots.

@general531- You are actually wrong on this one (sort of). One definition, the primary one in most dictionaries, is this:

obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit.

Yes, another definition involves sexual material, but the adjective pornographic is not exclusive to XXX movies/books/sites

I'm surprised that Take Two or Rockstar hasn't hit CSM with a DMCA violation lawsuit similar to what the MAFIAA does. CSM basically just admitted to downloading a copyrighted material which the general sentiment right now seems to be is illegal... so where's the lawsuit?

----
Papa Midnight

From a press point of view, it wouldn't be a good idea for TT, or anyone in the industry, to go after the CSM in court.

Why do I think this? Well, the CSM is a watchdog group, protecting the family and all that. Rockstar and Take Two are already the whipping boys of the whole "crusade against violence" that's going on. If either one of them decided to sue CSM under the DMCA, the media is going to react with the standard "Rockstar hates family values!" that they always go after.

I don't know how this whole "shield the childrens" craze started, but it should just die off. Maybe once people realize that children who get participation medals, or get bumped up to the next grade level even if they don't do good enough to pass really AREN'T that much better off, they'll shut up about the children.

That's just my opinion

I'm with you, EZK. Ignoring the infraction on CSM's part is tacit approval of their tactics. Aside from the irony being oh-so-delicious, it's just the smart thing to do, and the right thing to do, from where I'm standing.

Is no one going to comment on the remarks made by the TT representatives???

The sexual content of GTA: San Andreas was accessible on PCs via a mod, and on consoles via Action Replay codes.

Now, the violent action of decapitating a guard/officer Mr. Thompson and the CSM are using as ammunition has been confirmed to be in the game accessible via a modded PS2.

It makes you wonder what else you can access in the game? Pliers scene anyone?

What about their denial of an unrated version of the game being available for download? The CSM and many gamers say they have their copy, so how is this claim unproven?

Even so, I do agree that downloading and demonstrating the unrated copy of the game is morally wrong and lays the groundwork for possible legal action.

Still, the comments by TT are a major foot-in-the-mouth moment...I'm talking beyond the calf muscles here people!

Hecatomb: Oh no, it's cool. I wasn't trying to be a hard ass towards you. And it does seem odd that you can give a kid a rifle and tell him/her to go shoot Bambi's mother, but God forbid he picks up a controller!

What 4 'Saw' movies and 2 for the 'Hostel' series, I can't really see why they're only really attacking videogames. We get it, you don't trust the ESRB which is has already been proven drastically more effective than you think. Give it a rest already CSM.

@ GameDevMich

I think you may have read the TT comments the wrong way.

The color encoding thing was a round-about, long winded way of saying the leaked version is a PAL version, which won't play on US systems without modding the console. They're not saying there is content there on the disc still, just that leaked version can't be played without a mod chip. I attribute the long winded, round-about way of saying to them trying to find a new way of saying to parents "Your kids can't download this and play it without modding their system.", as no one seemed to grasp that the last time around.

The other comment I think was made in the same vain. Note the qualifier of "easily". CSM is trying to make it seem like any 10 year-old can download the leaked version and play it without a problem, when in fact they would have to have a modded console in the first place to even attempt to play it. TT is just trying to combat that with a new wording of the same message since parents and the watchdog groups apparently still don't understand the whole of concept of mod chips.

CSM CEO Jim Steyer told the AP:
"In my opinion, it’s the most senselessly violent and offensive thing I’ve ever watched. It’s disgusting. It’s so violent, it struck me personally as pornographic violence."

Can anyone spot the 2 very important words in his statement? That's corect, "opinion" and "personally". In MY opinion, reality tv is of no value to society, contributes to the deadening of intellect and should be banned. Personally, I find dance music to be appalling and would argue that it not be played in any public place. There's the thing though, opinions are like backsides, everyone has one. Also, when you take things personally, you cannot use that as a reason to ban it. One man's treasure is another man's trash.

" A spokesman… said the unrated version used a color encoding system common to Western Europe and could be played in the United States only using a Sony PlayStation 2 console modified without company permission."

The only way a kid will see this version is if they have unrestricted access to the internet and to a modded PS2. I've never met anyone under 25 with a modded console of any kind, and allowing children unrestricted internet access is asking for trouble.

"Common Sense downloaded a version of the game that is available online, and will be showing illustrative clips of that version to the press a day before the official title is scheduled to hit stores on Wednesday."

So they are admitting that they are showing clips that may not reflect actual game content, just like their cop/shovel picture. I hope they make more mistakes like that and TT take them to task over it. It is one thing to show people your game and tell them that it is violent. It is another thing altogether to show images and video that are not in the game and misrepresent the game to the press.

@ GameDevMich

Can you provide a link to a source over the decap scene being unlockable on PS2? That is potentially huge news- and quite possibly the stupidest thing R* could do since Hot Coffee.

Erase my last memo. Here's a new one.
NEW Memo to CSM (talk about the pot and the kettle):
Why the fuck would you ILLEGALLY download a game (and admit to it in the press), ILLEGALLY possess it, and display the ILLEGAL copy to those attending your press conference knowingly? And to defame the game, the industry, the ESRB, and Rockstar by showing the ILLEGAL version? I hope and pray all of you at "CS"M have damn good lawyers, because illegally downloading, illegally possessing, and illegally displaying material is criminal under state and federal law. It is also against the law to use illegally obtained material to defame the ESRB, the ESA, and T2. Doing that is not only illegal, but dispicable. All of you at CSM are worse than ANY violent video game ever and far worse than those "evil" game developers that you, the PTC, all other watchdog groups, and Jack Thompson claim they are. All of you ought to be in jail for this sorry and criminal act.

Clean up on ailse COMMON SENSE!

@GP (NOT being a critic, I'm just commentating)
I've never read an article that left me as dumbfounded as this. I can't understand, for the life of me, why the CSM would stoop to such an idiotic and criminal low.

@GameDevMich
Thanks for the correction.

I really don't get it, why, why do games get rated more than all other forms of digital media, we can have Hostel, Saw and all this stuff, but we get a game kinda like that, but not close and all of a sudden its the devil in disguise?

@ GameDevMich

In defense of part of TT statements, the version the CSM is using is the unrated un edited version released in Sept. The one released in stores Tonight, will not have all the scenes the CSM is showing.

As for their denial of the game being available for download, that is pretty dumb of them. It has been proven and they themselves have admitted as much. AP may be running off of an old email or a clueless exec.
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