November 2, 2007
And so it begins...Following yesterday's admission (broken here on GamePolitics) by Take Two Interactive that unnamed hackers had successfully unlocked some of the Adults Only content from the edited, M-rated version of Manhunt 2, critics have begun to weigh in.
California State Senator Leland Yee, who has previously credited the Hot Coffee scandal as the deciding factor in passage of his state's 2005 video game law, issued an angry press release last evening:
Not only should the AO (Adults Only) rating immediately be reinstated on [Manhunt 2], the Federal Trade Commission should investigate Rockstar and the ESRB to determine how this was allowed to happen again.
Time and time again, the ESRB rating process fails parents. It is unconscionable that the rating board would downgrade Manhunt 2’s rating from AO to M and therefore make the game available to children. The ESRB and Rockstar continuously put profits before children.
Parents deserve to know what, if any, content was truly removed to receive the downgraded rating. ESRB has refused to publicly disclose whether or not Rockstar divulged that such adult content could still be accessible. As if we needed more evidence, this episode further puts into question the validity of the entire rating system.
The Manhunt 2 scandal further demonstrates the need for [California's contested video game] law. I am hopeful that the courts will see that severe penalties are necessary for those who sell horrifically violent games to minors.
Comments
Like a vulture. Carrion feeders and lawyer have a ton in common, it seems.
( GP: Actually, that was posted by a faux Jack, now deleted and IP-banned… )
I am with you on your expectations of our government. Very few politicians think of themselves and their positions in the proper light. To me a politician is reall a "civil servant" They are there to serve the public communities of their district. But if you can show me a politician that feels that way, I will show you an extra terestrial. ;)
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
But by all means, whine about it constantly every time a video game makes it on the news.
"In 1993 the case was later closed without prejudice." Be sure to read up on all the information before spreading it out there. Unless you want to sound like one of these people we are so adamantly opposed to?
Does anyone have any of these peoples' emails? Considering the grave amount of misinformation out there, they should be respectfully and maturely approached to correct the errors of their press releases before it becomes known that they are spreading lies without knowing the full story.
From everyone of their statements, it seems like they are associating this hack with the Hot Coffee mod. They seem to think that it's really easy to do and that a simple program will automatically unlock the partial AO content.
Maybe we can write one letter and then all of us can sign it.
Drop the "training" argument. It's been beaten to death. If I played Madden 2k3 I'm not training for a game of football. If I played a NASCAR game I'm not training to win some race. If I played Tetris I'm not training to delete rows of blocks.
Now, until you can have an adult discussion and use your inside voice, go sit at the kiddy table.
Slow typer is slow. Really though, I think your explanation was less convoluted and venomous than mine. I'm just pissed about being told to go home from work early because of waiting for another developer to check-in his source code, bah. I think the beer lends the venom.
/rant, again
Back to the point. I do remember a few years back ES4 (Oblivion) was found to have some loose code that got hacked to allow topless female characters in game. This got the game rerated to M since it added sexual theme to the game that did not have them before.
However since M2 is already noted for having mucho violence, suggestive themes etc it seems doubtful this hack would have the same effect. Ok it is a hack outside the control of R* but yes the code was in the game. But think on it a moment. Removing a visual filter in game? This would like tossing a torch into a burning barn then calling it more dangerous.
The ESRB is reviewing group. They do not write or dissemble the code. They are not there to hold the hand of people buying or playing the titles, just to offer guidance and advise as to what is in the title. Cannot see how they could be held responsible, but I can see why they would not jump forward to try and defend themselves. They are the reviewer for many titles, if someone like JBT forced their hand somehow and got his foot in the door, he could derail pretty much any future title he wanted.
How about I load up an episode of the Gilmore Girls (if it is still on) and video edit some porn into it. Hey ban the Gilmore Girls! Anybody could just 'hack' some porn into! oh-no! Won't somebody please think of the children!
It doesn't matter what any of these people say. Pull it from the shelves. Ban it. Make it illegal to even talk about. You can't stop someone from getting what they want if they really want it. Postal was banned in several countries yet in those countries people own Postal.
As I've said before. I've played violent games all my life, so why haven't I gone on a murderous rampage? I was in 7th grade when I played DOOM for the first time. My mom got it for me. Why? Because my parents knew their son wasn't an idiot and could discern fantasy from reality as can most people today adult or child.
Locking up all the criminals doesn't put and end to crime.
Oh well, I think I'll play some Manhunt 2 before I go to class.
Oh and lets rewrite something -
"I am hopeful that the courts will see that severe penalties are necessary for those who sell horrifically violent games to minors."
"I am hopeful that the courts will see that severe penalties are necessary for those who sell horrifically violent movies to minors."
Would never happen, would it?
Sad really, losing seems to be all guys like him are good at lately yet they still don't know when there beaten
Personally, Manhunt 2 is nothing when compared to other games and even movies, like saw, hostel, so forth
If it wasn't a rockstar game, I bet it'd not even be a side story on the news.
If it was Adults Only it wouldn't be available to anyone at all. I guess that's how he likes it. The onlyway a child is going to get a hold of this game is if their parents buy it for them. END OF STORY. Explain to me how a twelve year old is going to be running around a game store unsupervised with sixty dollars to spend. And how is this kid going to hide the game from his parents forever? Do his parents leave him locked up in his room all day without seeing what he's doing? You can'T save kids from awful parents.
But if it was made by Rockstar....oh man, they'd be all over it. I think it was Trey Parker who said, "It's either all ok or none of it is." I believe such a statement holds true here. If these people are gonna single out violence in videogames then they shouldn't hold back on violent television or movies cause it's all the same graphic violence.
Of course, this where their credibility falls flat cause we all know these people don't have the stones to take on the television and movie industry cause of the severe curbstomping they'll recieve.
THEY. ARE. NOT. BEING. MARKETED. OR. SOLD. TO. CHILDREN.
That is all.
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic
But Yee needs to shut up. He has no idea what he is talking about.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/11/02
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Gilmore Girls was canceled in May, though the reruns still air on ABC Family.
Now as for the poor man's Beat Takeshi, Leland Pee:
Not only should the AO (Adults Only) rating immediately be reinstated on [Manhunt 2], the Federal Trade Commission should investigate Rockstar and the ESRB to determine how this was allowed to happen again.
Not happening, since Rockstar/Take-Two followed ESRB rules this time and disclosed everything, especially since they edited the game after it was given the AO rating. And if the FTC investigated, their hands would be tied, since Rockstar/Take-Two did nothing wrong.
Time and time again, the ESRB rating process fails parents. It is unconscionable that the rating board would downgrade Manhunt 2’s rating from AO to M and therefore make the game available to children. The ESRB and Rockstar continuously put profits before children.
Completely False. It is unconscionable, though, for Yee to vote against a bill that would banned harmful materials(like lead paint, etc.) in children's toys before all that stuff with Chinese-made toys happened. So Yee has no credibility when talking about "profits before children".
Parents deserve to know what, if any, content was truly removed to receive the downgraded rating. ESRB has refused to publicly disclose whether or not Rockstar divulged that such adult content could still be accessible. As if we needed more evidence, this episode further puts into question the validity of the entire rating system.
If that's the case, they should also know what was removed from Saw IV, Hostel Part II, or Rob Zombie's Halloween remake to receive an R rating from the MPAA. The ESRB is not bound by law to publicly disclose that information, since the MPAA doesn't have to either. But then again, since Yee accepts campaign contributions from the MPAA, he doesn't have the testicular fortitude to ask the same thing of the movie industry, the hypocrite. So the validity of the ESRB is hardly in question.
The Manhunt 2 scandal further demonstrates the need for [California’s contested video game] law. I am hopeful that the courts will see that severe penalties are necessary for those who sell horrifically violent games to minors.
Sure, whine about your "law" in which the real reason it got passed was because an Assemblyman that initially voted against the bill was illegally substituted for another who voted for it. The same "law" that would eventually after almost two years be ruled unconstitutional.
Grow up and get a life, Yee.
Think about it.
The very nature of releasing software into the public means that SOMEONE WILL ALWAYS HACK/EXPLOIT IT. That is a FACT. Any game can be hacked to add or remove any content the hacker wants- a gay-porn Mario game is relatively easy to make.
This is similar to someone filming their own porn scenes and editing it into The Wizard of Oz. The only difference is that making/obtaining hacks is much easier to do than making film clips from scratch.
The only way to appease these people is TO RATE EVERY SINGLE GAME "AO" simply because someone can hack it into a violent porn.
As PROVEN beyond any shadow of a doubt that his claims are FALSE and FRAUDLENT by the previous article and as posters here have already done, Yee should now face not only impeachment but criminal charges of FRAUD for lying to citizens of CA as well as citizens of the US in an attempt to force his personal, religious, and/or political beliefs on others in violation of US constitutional law (as PROVEN by the legal striking down of his unconstitutional law). Part of the definition of fraud includes the attempt to lie to and deceive others for the purpose of depriving individuals of their Rights. Not merely for financial or property gain.
Senator Yee is among a great many politicians who believe that the government should revoke Parent's Rights to make decisions for their own children and that the government should be the Parent (as PROVEN by his unconstitutional law). However, if such politicians must resort to lying and deceiving citizens, even if through ignorance and lack of knowledge of the subject they are arguing about, how does THAT make them, as an entity, BETTER Parents the children's OWN Parents?
Despite Senator Yee's previous more moderate claims, this time he has crossed over into the same level of incompetence and corruption that so many others, such as Senator Burrell from Louisiana and Senators from various other states have been since the beginning.
While I may not be a CA resident, had Senator Yee been a Senator of MY state, I would be demanding his immediate impeachment. But then, I expect FAR more an honorable government than ever will exist in the US.
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Anyway, no the ESRB is NOT broken. It works. As others have said, everything was done according to the rules; Rockstar and Take Two admitted the content when they submitted it, the ESRB knew about it, eveything followed procedure. When the news came out, Take two and Staruss Zelnick admitted it right away much to their credit. Compare that with their response during Paul Eibler's regime, which was none at all.
Unfortunately since Yee is a senator now, I wouldn't be surprised now to see him introduce legislation similar to Brownback's Truth in Video Game Ratings in the wake of this. :(
I'd really like to hear what Patricia Vance and Mike Gallagher have to say about all this. I hope they mount a spirited defense.
Ah, screw all of this! I've got to get ready for the expo tomorrow. I don't have time to waste on this and it's only just bringing me down.
/b
The end result acts like the uncensored version, or partially uncensored version, but neither Take Two nor Rockstar have a hand in it.
To be more clear - if I take an official letter that you wrote, as a lawyer. And then I modify it so that it says “I loathe Videogames and I’m a hypocrite.”
Would they penalize you? No. Would they penalize the post office? Hardly. Only if I managed to get access to the letter there while they were supposed to protect it. But let’s say your letter just lay here, on the internet, so anyone could grab it, like they can grab MH2 in a store.
So I modified your letter. I put words in your mouth. Things you did not say. I can still come on a gaming forum and say Jack finally revealed his true self. I guessed there, because you are easy to read. It may not be true, but that is in the eye of the beholder. It’d be such a farce. Of course I may assume that you have some sort of a tunnel vision on Video games, because you have so little experience actually playing them. But even you have to agree that it is *me* who’s to blame for demonizing you in public if I modify your letter like that.
Now some hackers have put many offending "words” into Rockstars game. Words that Rockstar had removed. They simply aren’t there. There's blank pages in their game. Someone made educated guesses and, with a lot of effort, technical skill, kept guessing, authoring and linking everything up until the result looked pleasing to his eye.
John B. Thompson, Attorney at Law
1172 S. Dixie Hwy., Suite 111
Coral Gables, Florida 33146
November 2, 2007
Lydia B. Parnes
Director, Bureau of Consumer Protection
Keith Fentonmiller, Senior Attorney
Federal Trade Commission
600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. Via Fax to 202-326-3799
Re: Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc's Latest
Dear Director Parnes and Mr. Fentonmiller:
In light of the 2006 Consent Decree between Take-Two and the Federal Trade Commission which prohibits Take-Two from leaving hidden material in its video games sold to an unsuspecting public, please note the below Associated Press story of today:
Hackers Unlock Extra Violence in Game
By PETER SVENSSON – 9 hours ago
NEW YORK (AP) — Hackers have unlocked violent content that was censored by the publisher of the game "Manhunt 2" to give it a marketable rating, the company confirmed Thursday.
The game, initially given an "Adults Only" rating by the Entertainment Software Rating Board, went on sale in the U.S. on Wednesday with a "Mature" rating, after being modified. Most stores refuse to carry "Adults Only" games; Mature means a game is intended for player 17 or older.
Game publisher Take-Two Interactive Software Inc. and the studio that designed the game, Rockstar Games, have long been at the center of the debate over video game violence and children.
Two years ago, a hacker uncovered a hidden sex scene in their game "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas."
In "Manhunt 2," the player takes the role of a man who escapes from an insane asylum and goes on a killing spree.
Take-Two edited parts of the game, including blurring some of the most gruesome killing scenes, to get the less restrictive rating.
Hackers defeated that blurring on the version of the game for Sony Corp.'s PlayStation Portable. The game is also available for the PlayStation 2 and Nintendo Wii systems, and those versions do not appear to have been hacked.
The hack does not roll back all the changes that enabled the game to qualify for the "Mature" rating, and it requires some technical expertise and a PSP unit that is itself hacked to accept modified software.
But Common Sense Media, a San Francisco nonprofit that advises parents about entertainment that may be inappropriate for children, Thursday asked the Federal Trade Commission to look into the ratings process, now funded and governed by an industry association. The process lacks basic transparency, Common Sense Media CEO James Steyer said in a statement.
"We believe that families and all consumers should have an assurance from game publishers and the game ratings board that the content being advertised is the same as the content being sold," Steyer said.
In the Grand Theft Auto incident, the ratings board changed the game's rating from "Mature" to "Adults Only" and retailers pulled it off shelves.
Since then, the board has required that publishers submit even hidden content for review, and Take-Two spokesman Ed Nebb said the publisher had followed that requirement for "Manhunt 2."
It is unclear whether the private, nonprofit ratings board considered the hidden material in assigning the "M" rating to "Manhunt 2."
Board spokesman Eliot Mizrachi said only that it is aware of the hacking issue and is looking into it.
Both the revised and original versions of "Manhunt 2" were banned by the American ratings board's British counterpart.
"I stand behind the game and the ESRB ratings process," Take-Two Chairman Strauss Zelnick said in a statement. "It is unfortunately the case that no one in the entertainment software industry is immune from hacking. We hope that consumers will not engage in hacking or download illegally modified copies of our games."
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jpQ_GJJuBYfnoVDvsl3urbnEJThgD8SL6STO2
I encourage the FTC to fully investigate this matter and then consider assessing the remedy set forth in the 2006 FTC/Take-Two Consent Decree: A fine of $11,000 for each unit sold with the hidden content. If only three million units of Manhunt 2 are sold, that would constitute a fine of $33 billion. Obviously, the ESRB, with or without Take-Two’s approval should immediately recall all units of Manhunt 2, as was done with GTA: San Andreas in 2005.
Such a fine would send a message to the rest of the industry, including the complicit ESRB, which either knew or should have known what was going on here. This is Hot Coffee Redux, only worse, on the ESRB’s watch. The ESRB, of course, is owned and operated by the video game industry. There has never been a worse example in American commerce of the fox guarding the hens. The ESRB’s Patricia Vance should be indicted.
Finally, please be advised that this week I have received written threats from Take-Two’s law firm and lobbyist on Capitol Hill, Blank Rome, threatening me with legal mayhem if I continue to tell the truth about what Take-Two is doing. These threats may constitute a criminal act by Take-Two and by its lawyers. The federal government, including the FTC, should consider them to be an attempt to intimidate the undersigned whistleblower. I have alerted the US Attorney for the Southern District of Florida to this fact, and I am also sending this letter to Congressman Upton who helped secure the 2005 Resolution by the House of Representatives, passed by a vote of 355-21, condemning this out-of-control porn-to-teens company.
Regards, Jack Thompson
Copies: Congressman Upton
Common Sense Media
US Attorney Alex Acosta
US District Court Judge Adalberto Jordan, Case No. 07-21256
So, all the hack does is take away the censoring filter. Tell me, how is the "blood and gore, intense violence" BEFORE the filter is taken off any different from AFTER? "Intense" is a powerful adjective. I think I'd still describe the violence as "intense" after the filter's taken off. I mean, you weren't expecting cute bunnies, were you?
This reminds me of the MST3K movie. At the beginning, Crow gets the smart idea to tunnel through the vacuum of space to get back to Earth. Whenever his pickaxe finally breaches the Satellite of Love's hull, everything (predictably) starts to get blown out of his hull breach. Crow classically exclaims, "WHOA! I DIDN'T EXPECT *THIS!*"
If Yee or anyone else thinks that anybody who goes through all the trouble of hacking the PSP version of Manhunt 2 just to remove the filters doesn't know what they're getting into, then... wow. Just wow. I would think the psychos who would initiate intense violence in real life would find it easier just to kill small animals or something.
Something that must happen, though... Rockstar and T2 REALLY need to come out and defend this game this time around. They shouldn't duck and hide like they did witht he Hot Coffee thing. They shouldn't have to defend themselves, but they knew damn well what they were doing. They also remind me of Crow in the MST3K movie. They knew damn well what they were doing, despite the fact that they were following the rules and that this is something that shouldn't have to be defended, so they had best be ready to deal. If they leave it up just to the ESA and others to defend them, then I will lose what little respect I have for Rockstar & T2.
To quote George carlin. "FUCK THE CHILDREN!!"
::goes back to playing Naruto on the wii, Procedds to beat the crap outta everyone with Gai Sensei::
I believe that all these people have no idea what is actually going on. What it seems to me is that they believe that all on has to do to access this content is to enter a couple of button presses on the controler and wham! you have AO rated content. I don't think that any of these people know that one actually has to software and hardware hack their PSP, which takes a good deal amount of skill. Then that person must use a software hack to access the files on the game disk. Then using that same software they must change those files. Then burn them to a new UMD or flash drive and put it back into the HACKED PSP. That is not something just anyone can do.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
Drugs, Sex, Violence...
"It is unconscionable that the rating board would downgrade Manhunt 2’s rating from AO to M and therefore make the game available to children."
STOP. TELLING. PEOPLE. M FOR MATURE. IS. FOR. KIDS!!!
>:E
Will everyone please stop voting for these morons? How does this keep happening?
Idiotic.
I'll admit that there are some who merely stray from the path of the Force just a tiny bit. :) Sadly, as with many in various professions, they are overwhelmed by the sensationalism and negativity that is the Dark Side.
One such person is Julia Boseman. Now, it is true that she has a video game bill. Even John Bruce has claimed that he penned it (at least the one from last year, not sure if the one this year is the same one, and when does he NOT claim having something to do with a video game bill?).
But, as an observer here in NC, I notice that she isn't shouting to the tops of the rafters all sorts of ignorant nonsense like so many others. Nor is she trying to push this bill ahead of other important bills. This is the second year this bill was attempted. Last year, it didn't make it all the way through because time ran out for it. I'm hoping the same will happen this year. I don't agree with everything she supports, but she is reasonable enough to know there are far more important issues to deal with. And she's already made certain comments about other bills having to do with the movie industry here in NC for me to believe a decent, intelligent letter to her may actually make her waver on the video game bill.
There are reasonable politicians. Sadly, as with lawyers, judges, even school authority figures, the bad ones get all the press and create negative stereotypes for the overall professions. Yee, Burrell, and others fall into those stereotypes and give the profession a bad name. I wish there were more good folks out there getting the attention, getting MORE attention than the bads ones. Unfortunately, society LOVES the bad guy more than the good guy. Which explains why the "Anti-Hero" is so popular in various media formats I guess. :) Pah! Couch Potato Psychological babbling ranting! :)
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
2...
1...