That's awesome.. so many people jumping on a bandwagon to riches and 15 minutes of fame.. only to receive a revamped copy of a game they never wanted to begin with.

That's justice.

Props to GP for doing what I've been hoping he would do for some time now - nix the superfluous posts by JT that are completely unrelated to the topic at hand. This website is not your personal soapbox.

And as for the topic at hand: It's crappy that they settled, I think, and I agree that at some point the industry should take a stand against issues arising from user-created content or user-done edits. But given the current political climate towards games (ungood) and towards T2 in specific (doubleplus-ungood) and the fact that the settlement amount isn't going to break their back, I can understand the desire to do so.

I'd say let the grandmother have her $35.

Then immediately arrest her on child abuse charges for buying the game for a 14 year old child with what it was KNOWN to be.

Hot Coffee, even it was all that easily accessible, didn't make the game that much worse.

Heh, if Dennis really was a censor in chief, then why is Jack being able to post at all here (I would've kicked him and IP banned him 2000 times over already)

They settled typical.... I thought they would. That what i would have done. It would have cost them to much to lose... They did the right thing.

Darn. Too bad I never liked GTA and never bought SA. ;)

I think this class action was total BS. What are the chances that the kid ever actually found the scene? Slim to none. She just saw it on the news, didn't understand the nature of it and over reacted. Sounds familiar doesn't it?

Zachary,
Interestingly enough, nobody seemed to point out that it took illegal alteration by software to make the scenes available. So, now while these folks are "winning" civil suits, they should be charged with hacking the software to make the scenes available in the first place.

Much like the Manhunt 2 situation.

After all, if all these folks think T2/Rockstar should be responsible legally for having the scenes in the software, then THEY should take responsibility for committing the crime of hacking the software (whether they wrote the hack or not, they would have had to USE it) to make the scenes available. After all, the user who DOESN'T hack the software is NEVER exposed to the scenes. ONLY those who hack are.

If you don't hack it, you shouldn't have a suit.
If you do hack it, you might have a suit, as well as criminal charges against YOU.

So there!

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

M rating equals 17 years and up, why did she buy a 17 years and up game for a 14 year old? Isn't she from the so called "greatest generation" that preaches personal reasonability?

Should I ever commit a major felony, I will be wearing that shirt when they catch me.

@CyberSkull

If I ever go on a rampage, i'll shoot 10 and run like hell before they can even read thev letters.

Should I ever commit a crime like that...
It won't be on the XBox 360 version of the game 'cuz I won't get the Acheivements if I use the cheats like invincibility. :(

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

Merc25,
Ask EULA. She'll tell ya.

And just because you own it, doesn't mean you can do whatever you want to it. Ask RIAA and the ESA, not to mention Homeland Security. :/

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

Just so you gamers understand: Dennis McCauley is sitting on a story about a video game industry insider who is now blowing the whistle on the industry's illicit marketing and sale of mature games to kids.

I thought this was a "news" site about the video game industry? This is the biggest story to hit that industry in five years. Nice going, Dennis. What a tool.

GP: Big, huge story - Not. Feel free to read it. To me it's more like a press release for the guy's new film project.  Some coverup...

INTERESTING: This "video game industry veteran" John Douglas, does NOT come up on a Moby Games search of design/developer credits...

MORE INTERESTING: Ol' John Bruce has already added this huge whistleblower story to the docket in his lawsuit against the Florida bar. Relevance? Unclear, but that's never stopped him before.

"Where’s the story I sent you, Dennis, about the video game industry whistleblower who has now come forward? Where’ s the story, our great Censor in Chief?"

You already told all of us in the comment section of several articles, Mr. Thompson, in which we talked back to you about it.

As polite, grown-up people, we listen to what you have to say. How about you do the same?

Not every move you make is worthy of a news story, Mr. Thompson.

Eh. Glad it's over with. Let's move on to Bully... er I mean Manhunt 2.... er I mean...

Only in the U.S. can idiots sue for their own stupidity and win. Just like this senile old bag of a grandmother who was obviously blind to NOT notice the M rating on the case.

I believe the ESA should take a stand or this will become standard practice.

If you hack a game and then sue the company, the ESA should come after YOU! The music companies are not suing the individuals for illegal downloading, RIAA is as their representative. If these scums know the representative of the gaming companies will be coming after them for doing something illegal, they may think twice about signing up for those freebie class action lawsuits where the lawyers collect most of the money.

I'm surprised no one has gone after God of War, Conan, The Sims, Elder Scrolls, etc...It's free money folks, buy a game, download a hack from the internet, claim mental and emotional anguish, and viola, you get millions of dollars!

ESA take a fucking stand!

Heh, the funny thing is that because of Jack, this payout will be a paltry sum, balanced out due to all of the copies of Manhunt 2 that will sell because of the controversy he helped inflate.

Sure, it probably won't sell anything like GTA, but definitely more than if JT had just left it alone.

I stopped reading that article from Jack as soon as I read the words "Christian Values"

Jack,

That "news" story is nothing more than a promotional piece for a guy's movie. No scientific evidence to back it up, just opinion.

Now, if you don't mind, the adults are trying to have a conversation here.

(And I agree with Dennis...get your own damn blog, already.)

As far as this settlement goes, I'm wondering how many people are actually going to take advantage of this offer. Once again, the lawyers get to pocket the fees and run off to their mansions to beat their servants while the Little Guy gets left with an exchanged copy or some coupons.

Class Action Suits have gotten out of control.

@DogWelder: They have, though in this case I'm not overly grumpy with the process because the consumers that bought the game don't really deserve that much more. The number of people that desired GTA:SA but would no longer desire it upon the Hot Coffee revelation is pretty small, I figure, and most of the people that take T2 up on the settlement are probably just people who finished the game, don't want to play it anymore, and want to sell it back - $35 for a used game that's several years old is good money.
Also, did you take your screen name from the somewhat obscure superhero? Or is there another reasonable origin of the name 'dog welder'?

Thanks for the info everyone. Thanks for the link Dennis.

@ John Bruce

Hardly a whistle blower. More of a concerned citizen who exercised his right to petition.

Good lck to John Douglas on his movie business.

***Now back to the topic at hand:

I still can't believe this made it to class action status. No one who was not seeking that content out would never have found it. You actually had to look for it and expend extra energy outside the game to find it.

This is akin to me breaking up an action figure with a hammer and then swallowing one of the peices and then sueing the toy company when I choked on the piece.

you know Jack, if we had a nickel every time you did something so INCREDIBLY stupid it makes us question how you even became a lawyer in the first place, and who in their right mind keeps passing you on your psyche-evals despite everything you've done, we'd probably have enough to make our OWN violent video game with hidden sex scenes.

Saying that you don't like a specific genre is NOT reason to call it whistleblowing.

On a more related note, if Hot Coffee even porn? 2 video game characters doin' it on screen, it's nowhere NEAR the stuff you can find on 4Chan. Hey Jack, why don't you go protest 4Chan. Kids can get free porn there, and they don't even have to PROVE their 18.

Meh,

It probably would've cost Take Two more to continue the suit, then any gains coming out of it.

BTW, US civil suits are plain ridiculous. There should be a ban for suits about hazy emotional distraught claims, because these are pure bullshit money grabbers. Only REAL emotional distress caused DIRECTLY on a inter personal level (meaning, if one person directly causes you grave emotional distress).

@Pandralisk

Oh come on, those books can't scare a five year-old.

@JT:

That story is about some guy who doesn't like the violent content present in some of today's games. You said that this was about an industry whistle blower, I had expected something more than "Newsflash! Man has opinion regarding entertainment media!"

It's just the latest in a long series of postings you have made which show you believe that the opinion of people you agree with is law.

Some excerpts:
""Virtually overnight, every violent video game in stores around the country was yanked from the shelf," recalls Douglas, "but, as soon as the public outcry died down, it was back to business as usual." "
I can't recall this happening after Columbine. Sure enough, you and all the other anti game nuts began the call to arms to "save the children", but what games exactly were taken off shelves?

""What I see now in video games does not even come close to what I witnessed as a Sheriff – it has become too disturbing to ignore any more.""
This is tone of the silliest thing's I have ever read. Of course there are more disturbing things in video games than you will see in law enforcement, they are the product of imagination and have no limit on what they can display. Dragons, monsters, zombies, ghosts, etc... The difference is that real life crimes are more disturbing as THEY ARE REAL! I would prefer 1,000 virtual characters be chopped into bits by demons, than one real person ever be raped/murdered/abused.
Also, he notes that it is too disturbing to ignore this content. It's actually very easy to. I wouldn't give two craps about the Manhunt games, but I find them forced down my throat by you and all the other who believe you occupy the moral highground.

""The real threat from video games is that parents are led to believe that these games are harmless forms of entertainment,""
Parents are lead to believe they are a form of entertainment. Not a harmless one.

"Many parents, who normally take care to monitor their children's activities, mistakenly believe that the "ratings system" will prevent the kind of unacceptable content that exist in many of these games – NOT so."
Is the man stupid? For someone who has allegedly worked in the video game industry, he should realise that the ESRB system is not there to prevent content that some people may find inappropriate. It is there to laebl the content so that people can identify it as inappropriate and make informed decisions regarding it's consumption or otherwise.

"Sara and the Starfish (award winning and approved by the Dove Foundation), the first in a series of family-friendly, faith-based DVDs, is being released by Grand Design Productions this month."
The truth emerges. A faith based DVD by "Grand Design" productions. This man hasn't found out some terrible truth or conspircay at the heart of the video game industry. He has found religion it seems, and it has allowed him to form an opinion. He is of course entitled to that opinion, just as we all are, but saying that he is a whistle blower is a little silly.

"devoting his efforts to this pendulum swing by producing animated films which will promote Christian principles and family values. Says Douglas, "It is a huge gamble – God willing, we will make a difference!""
Good luck to the man with his new venture, hopefully it will be successful for him. But if he wants to make any sort of a difference, maybe he should make a film which could educate parents regarding the ESRB and Parental Controls, and how to monitor your kids entertainment consumption effectively...

Back to the main story here (as opposed to Jack's non-story), it is ridiculous that this even went to court. The makers of the game made the content inaccessible in normal play - you had to HACK THE GAME to get at it, modifying the behavior of the game and violating the EULA. If you have done that, then you are responsible for what you see.

Fantastic job by Dennis not to post the story Jack has mentioned. I have perused a few game sites today and no one i saw was running with that claptrap. What utter, utter gubbins. JT 's so caught up in his own propaganda that he can't tell when someone else is pushing thier own agenda either. Another fine job by GP.

Pandralisk,
Theres reading the bible and there UNDERSTANDING the bible in the context of WHEN it was written.

John Bruce (your real name, not your fake name)
The story is just an opinion piece, please grow up.

Article:
as with many of you, i agree; this should have not gone to court. the grandmother purchased the game. We don't even know if the kid had the knowledge or capability to hack the game anyway (do we?).

@GP

Mr. Douglas wasn't a designer or developer, he was just a reviewer and evaluator. He never made games, just played them

@Jack

"Where’ s the story, our great Censor in Chief?"


Much like you proclaim Target has a right not to carry a specific product, as Dennis owns this site he has a right to show what is reported on and what isn't. And you calling someone else a censor-in-chief? You attempt to wipe your ass with the first amendment at every turn. You sicken me.

They have pretty much laid the rules for "if you hear about something, even if you can't do it yourself, then you should be paid for it." So can I get paid for my car, because somebody else COULD kill someone with it? Or for my TV, because someone COULD play porn on it in front of kids. None of those make any sense..so neither does this. This was not advertised, and was cut off via code which is enough for me honestly, because there is no way to stop people from ever putting in extra content on a game short of NOT MAKING THE GAME. My kids could get ahold of a credit card and go purchase some adult movies on pay per view right now...maybe I should be getting paid by the cable company because it COULD happen.

And I'm just going to ignore old Jack when possible. He won't respond to any of my questions or anything that is put to him, so why in the HELL should I bother with him then. Works both ways there.

What's with people who repeatedly say that "Jack" is a fake name? Despite all the contempt I hold for him, that's about the dumbest ad hominem attack I hear. People don't seem to realize that "Jack" is a nickname for John.

Wiki-ing the name now, apparently it means "God is gracious," which is one quality JT severely lacks.

The one question I want to ask JT, face to face, is, "do you ever worry that your online persona will ever affect people's view of you in real life?"

Dave: Instead of making it a proper article, he posted it to a comment section, thus making it not-news.

"John Douglas is taking the biggest risk of his life?walking away from the lucrative video gaming business and devoting his efforts to this pendulum swing by producing animated films which will promote Christian principles and family values."

Yep, christian "principles" are all we need to set the world right.

Yes, good on T2 for the settlement. Let bygones be bygones and get on to making GTA:IV. :)

Jack do you uderstand that it is not illegal for anyone under 17 to play a mature rated game. They just can't buy it, so what if little 8 year old Jimmy saw CJ have sex with the nurse in GTA. If his parent bought it for him there is something wrong on their part.
Oh and stop talking ok we are tired of reading you stupid remarks about everything ok. All they do is make us laugh at you more than we already are.

@GryphonOsiris

Good point. Also got to remember that one "legs on the ground".

@Erik

Actually, the term "trained" on Doom is meant to say "trained to reduced their inhibitions to kill" (when you poit out that you can't train for markmanship on a videogame). So a better analogy is that using Doom to "train" is like going to a friendly game of paintball.

with this settlement, I wouldn't mind it becoming a precedent (though I'm not wild about the refund). If the shark lawyers realize that all they can squeeze out of the corporate pockets is an edited game, they won't be in any hurry to levy these frivilous lawsuits.

Jack, you know what's funny? You and Hillary were going after Rockstar and Take-Two because of the Hot Coffee mod, yet you never realized that teens under 17 were having real sex long before it and GTA came out. Besides, they'll learn about it in phys ed.

@Ken

That's one of the reasons why it's so obvious Jack just wants money.

@ AB:

No, you were right the first time. From the wiki entry on Hot Coffee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_coffee):

"The Hot Coffee minigame controversy concerns a normally inaccessible minigame in the 2004 video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, developed by Rockstar North. Public awareness of the existence of the minigame arrived with the release of the Hot Coffee mod, created for one version of the product (the 2005 release for Windows-based computers). This mod enables access to the minigame."

The grandmother bought the game (because she's an idiot) and gave it to her underage grandson. Then she saw the news about Hot Coffee on television, realized it was the game she'd bought, and started the class-action lawsuit.

"Although the "Hot Coffee" minigame was completely disabled and its existence was only highlighted after the mod's release for the PC version in June 9, 2005, the assets for the minigame were also discovered in both the PlayStation 2 and Xbox versions of the game, and people found ways to enable the minigame [b]via console video game hacking tools.[/b]"

You DID have to hack to see anything, on PC or console.

Lumi said it better.

Why do I get the feeling that everytime JT does a shit, he sends a press release to Dennis about it? :/

Anyway, this reminds me of the South Park episode where they get the ninja weapons.

Everybody's fine with violence, but show some nekkidness or pr0n and the world spins off it's axis.

"Why do I get the feeling that everytime JT does a shit, he sends a press release to Dennis about it? :/"

He practically DOES, from what Dennis has said.

Hmmm Good point there dog_welder i didnt even read that part...besides even if you have a original copy why would you want to give it up???

San andreas was a awesome game

@ Icehawk

They decided to settle because it would have cost more to see this through to trial. Also deciding to refund people for their game would allow them to look like they were making retribution for these perceived wrongs. Plus paying out now protects them to an extent from future legal action on the same subject.

So in the end it saves them money (after all how many people are actually going to fit the requirments of the sttlement) and it saves them face.

@Jack Thompson
Hey Jack I am still waiting for your answer.
Remember if you cvould tell me when games hurt someone I would stop playing games.
If you don't respond by tomarrow I win.

@DarthCylon:

Just don't hold your breath until then; that wouldn't be much of a victory. ;)

@DarkTetsuya
Yeah I know, he would probably just say Columbine or Virginia Tech, but of course those are wrong answers.

@ Jack
While we all were expected this...

Thanks for again proving that you have no clue as to what you are talking about, and deliberately misinterpret things.

I think I know why he feels this is so legit, it almost reads like one of his pointless & lie filed ego booting rambling PR junk he is always harassing people with.

So the whistleblower article that will take down video games once and for all is just a story about a guy who didn't like games anymore and decided to make movies for kids.

Go away, Jack. You're a childish, dishonest man. I don't know how else to put it.

Most important, and left out of the story:

How many orders of magnitude larger was the prize for the lawyers over what the class gets?

How'd you miss this payday, Jack-o?

I. Love. That. Shirt.