November 14, 2007
Why are backers of Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul (left) angry with Prof. Ian Bogost of Persuasive Games?As Bogost explains during this week's guest shot as editor of Kotaku, it has to do with Presidential Pong, a newsgame Bogost created for CNN a few months back. The Georgia Tech prof writes:
Released right around the first Presidential debate, [Presidential Pong] was intended both to introduce the primary candidates and to satirize the very idea of debate...
Ron Paul wasn't going to appear in the first debates. So we didn't include him in the game... CNN has continued to promote the game on their main Politics page, thus the confusion. The phone calls [from angry Paul supporters] are really best, because they just don't let up. Even when we explain the situation, they just accuse us of being Ron Paul hatas.
In the game, all of the candidates have a power-up... I suppose if I were to add Ron Paul to the game now, his would unleash a fury of emails and telephone calls.
Comments
i love it! :D
Well, I wish they would take a minute to understand the context before acting, it only does harm to the campaign otherwise.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
It's playing Ron Paul's tune.
The response Bogost got from Ron Paul supporters is exactly why I'm avoiding the man like he carries the plague. Completely isolated from his "bat-crap-crazy" fans, a lot of his statements and policies can seem quite appealing. I also have to compliment his campaign squad for mounting the strongest and most wide-spread online campaign I have ever seen.
However, both online and off, most of the supporters I have come into contact with are lunatics, rude, and down right mean.
For the love of all that is holy, it was a Pong variation with political figures as avatars. Ron Paul was left out for a very logical reason, and not including him will not ruin his chances at winning the election.
As with most things in life, supporters I admire, but zealots I detest and pity.
You cannot judge a candidate by the people that hit onto his bandwagon. Instead you have to judge someone by the people he actively pursues and shakes hands with.
Every candidate has a certain percentage of crazies. EVERY CANDIDATE. yes, that means yours, you probably have not met them yet. Whomever you support, he/she has complete nutballs supporting him that will do anything to get their man votes. Up to, and including breaking the law (Voter Intimidation, Election Fraud, etc).
Yeah, political zealots bug me as well. When I want to talk politics with someone, I prefer someone that can string together a reasonable defence and not resort to yelling and insults. The same for religion.
I agree that this is a pong clone and is not going to influence the primaries in any way.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
To every non-participating obvserver, what they see is a bunch of people acting completely childish in attacking Ron Paul.
Geez, how many blogs have I seen in the last six months saying this: "Hey, you basement dwelling 9/11 truther nutjob RonPaulbots, be civil."
Give it a rest. You reap what you sow. Though, I agree people shouldn't stoop to your level, but many of these articles do actually pretend to invite civil discourse and an actual discussion only to see the admins themselves start jumping in with the name-calling once a Ron Paul supporter takes the bait.
Neither side gets my sympathy, really, but I will still support Ron Paul, regardless.
I'm a little more adult-minded than to choose my candidate based on how other supporters act. I say, in all honesty, anyway making this statement never intended to support the man in the first place. Maybe I am just a little optimistic in thinking people are generally smarter than this.
Considering I've never seen you post before, how come you are so well versed on how much traffic GP is getting?
To which blog are you refering? Ian Bogost's blog or Game Politics?
Either way, they could care less about Ron Paul Traffic.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
yes he has, however the game was released at around the same time as the first debate meaning that those making it had to use the canidate and debate information they had before the first debate. Not sure why since i haven't follow things very closely, but it sounds like when they were developing the game Ron Paul wasn't slated to appear in the first debates, as in his choice to show up for the first debate was more last minute than the other canidates.
Humanity will always have its fanboys, albeit under different names depending on what they're (excessively) pushing. In religion, we call them zealots. In anime, we call them otaku.
@Scott McDonnell - In response, since you seemed to be responding to comments I made without addressing me, I must confess that I was vague on what I meant by "avoiding Ron Paul." At no point did I say which candidate I'm backing, who I would vote for, etc etc.
Yes, it would be a mistake to not support someone who deserves a vote simply because of his/her outspoken nut-job supporters. Not all Ron Paul supporters are crazies, but you have acknowledged that people correlate the candidate and the whack-jobs because of the online campaign.
The other candidates have their lunatic supporters as well, that's for sure. However, this online campaign for Ron Paul has gone from clever, informative, and interesting to complete "Volcano Status."
Def. of Volcano Status:
An affect similar to that of an erupting volcano spewing molten lava onto a helpless village, engulfing the dwellers and dooming them to a fiery death.
However, instead of a volcano, it's a mountain of cuckoo. Instead of spewing molten lava, it's molten crazy that engulfs the village.
Instead of a fiery death, the molten crazy warps the minds of the villagers to a point where they starve to death because they now sit around eating solid blocks of cement while sitting in a wading pool of their own poop...
Interesting analogy.
But Ron Paul might be an interesting presidential candidate, if he could get the mainstream Republicans backing him. I can't really get behind him as I am not a republican. But it could be interesting if by some off chance, he managed to win the Republican nomination.
E. Zachary Knight
Divine Knight Gaming
Random Tower: Game News and Commentary
And that is where the problem remains. Legions of followers can be released to the public in an attempt to garner support from the general public, but it will be in vain if he doesn't get that mainstream Republican support. Very difficult to win over a nation when you can't even win over your side, ya know?
RONPAUL2008!
"The other candidates have their lunatic supporters as well, that’s for sure. However, this online campaign for Ron Paul has gone from clever, informative, and interesting to complete “Volcano Status.” "
And I'm sure it's just a mere anomly that this 'We are getting fed up' happens to coincide with him become a much more viable candidate. For months blogs (I've never read your blog before, so don't take it personally) have been poking at him childishly but saying he doesn't stand a chance, blah blah blah. But, since he has gained, suddenly it is "WE ARE FED UP WITH YOU PEOPLE." Are you really annoyed with us, or that Ron Paul is gaining?
See, while I will admit many of his supporters do go way overboard at times, I don't personally worry about it all that much. Those becoming annoyed, etc.. are people that have been childish towards his campaign and supporters ALL ALONG. If you are the only people that are getting annoyed, well, what's your point?
Let me ask you this:
Do you think Cheese's post above was nice and civil? I really don't see anyone admonishing these people. Nope, one can conclude Ron Paul supporters only seem to be annoying to people that are already anit-Ron-Paul.
I'll let you have the last word. I sure you are not really any more interested in having a reasonable discussion than Cheese is.
Good luck with your blog, etc...
Because the Republicans avoid him like the plague(since he's their cure) its reasonable that he gets ignored.
Cheese
I'll take Ron over Hitlery,Obama and Edwards and all the neo cons combined, unlike them he is not a career politicians nor is he blinded by the politcail light, pretty much all the other candiates are neo dims or neo cons and they offer no change for goverment, sure if a dim gets in things will change but it will only be a different version of the status quo and after 4-8 years everythign will be forgotten to be fcked over by letting the other side at it again.
this tit for tat 2 party system must end....
Like Redstate, etc.. blogs in general seem to be fine with 100 Ron Paul posts as long as they are attacking him. One or two Pro-Ron-Paul posts and they start talking about banning, etc...
If you don't want to hear from Ron Paul's supporters, don't write about him. If you start attacking him childishly, expect to get angry responses.
But I have a revolution to get back to now.
Have a nice day.
Ron Paul has spent 20 years in federal office and made 2 presidential runs. Sorry to tell you, but he's a career politician and is completely blinded by his political agenda, but hey good on him. I whole-heartedly support him to be the republican nominee. Please, please, please.
Considering that you've already fled the scene in the name of "reasonable discourse" I can't be sure that you'll read this but I'll continue anyway - where in this piece do GP or Bogost attack Ron Paul? I read through what was written a number of times and nowhere did I see an attack on Ron Paul.
I thought that Ron Paul had some interesting ideas. Unfortunately, I don't think that his policies are particularly feasible nor is he the type of person who I would like to be president. If that opinion makes me a "Ron Paul Hater" then so be it.
The attacks that I've seen have nearly uniformly been against online Ron Paul supporters and not he man himself because - and this is the important point - a lot of online Ron Paul supporters are doing the whole Crazy Internet Guy thing. If you look like a bird and sound like a bird then you can't get pissed off when people bitch about you crapping on their car.
At any rate, one of what I have long considered the finest points of Mr. Paul's campaign was his belief in the freedom of individuals and their expression and now his supporters are going after Bogost because his free expression wasn't satisfactory? That's bullshit, however you slice it.
I found your statements intelligent and civil enough to respond to, contrary to his (sorry Cheese). However, there are some flaws in your statements, nothing huge though.
"...I’ve never read your blog before, so don’t take it personally"
First, I don't keep a steady blog. I post on this site and one other related to actual game development. This is a message forum for Game Politics, not a blog. Speaking of which, you haven't actually commented on the story, so I'd like to hear your opinion on it.
"Nope, one can conclude Ron Paul supporters only seem to be annoying to people that are already anit(sic)-Ron-Paul."
You have taken the stance that I am against Ron Paul, which at no point have I made such a claim. Saying I don't like the number 3 does not automatically mean I hate the number 7. So one cannot come to that conclusion based on my my previous statements.
Prior to Cheese's comments, I don't think I read one single attack on Ron Paul, just some passing comments on the more annoying supporters we've come into contact with.
When I first read a pro-Ron Paul message, it was on YouTube and had nothing to do with the video. Still, I read the message and was intrigued. I performed my own research on the man. Millions of random postings on nearly ever site that allows user responses later, I do not think it is unnatural for one to become annoyed with the constant barrage of all caps regurgitation of the same information.
Scott, you are an uncommon exception to what most of us have been exposed to. I hold no malice toward you, nor have I lumped you in with the crazy political supporters. I was merely saying they are out there, and since a decent number of us GP regulars spend a decent amount of time on the Internet, the ones we are most exposed to are Ron Paul supporters.
That's the drawback to an aggressive online campaign. Consumers of the Internet get sick of the same thing very quickly, regardless of the original intent.
Good luck with the revolution =)
Further compounding the problem is that he appeals to young people, who are not represented at all in the polls. Will this excitement translate into Votes in the primary? Who knows. But it would be foolish to discount Ron Paul completely.
Case in point: Gov. Jesse Ventura. In 1998 he won the Election in Minnesota with about 35% of the vote. Before the election, he was polling at about 10%. Pundits discounted him, the other candidates ignored him. The reason for this discrepency? 18 to 30 year olds. He appeals to the young, and young people voted for him in droves.
Scientific polls are only conducted against "likely primary voters". Translation: People who voted in the 2004 primary. The 2004 primary for republicans pretty much defaulted to Bush. There was no reason for anyone to go to the polls.
But you know what gets me really riled up? People who pontificate on how X candidate is a , yet they don't even bother to understand the background on issues, their own candidate, or what the label actually means.
Well, I lied. I did stop back because I really wanted to see your response. I do take note that my tone did seem to be personally directed at you. Actually, it wasn't. I was speaking in the general and I admit it was off topic. Well, if you follow the flow of comments it fit into that more than it did the original topic.
But, as far as the original topic, itself, I would agree with you that attacking the game developers for not including Ron Paul is more than ridiculous. I read his explanation and thought it more than reasonable.
Maybe that's really the problem here. When reading the blogs about Ron Paul, it typically starts out with a few people responding on topic, then someone comes along (either Ron Paul supporter or Anti-Ron-Paul) and starts a fight. The whole thread goes off topic, and the RP supporters far outnumber the ron-paul-haters (after all, they were ACTIVELY seeking articles about the man) and it looks like it is RPs supporters only hijacking the comments.
But, more often than not, the admins come to the defense of the anti-Paul posters while admonishing RP's supporters.
And yes, there are many many many blogs using the whole "Hey nutjobs, be civil" approach to start a fight with Ron Paul's supporters. I have more and more just started skipping over the negative articles. This one caught my eye because I thought it was silly that Ron Paul's supporters would actually have such an issue with this. But, seeing as how Ron Paul is quite popular, there are going to be segments of every kind supporting him just like any other candidate.
Even some that don't understand that the author of this game can do whatever he wants with his own game. He doesn't owe us anything and doesn't have to pander to him. There is no reason or logic to bullying someone into supporting Ron Paul. Even Jesus himself wouldn't get 100% of the vote and it is crazy to think he would.
Anyways, I strayed way off topic and I thank you for tolerating my intrusion. I did not mean to imply that you, GameDevMich, were a Ron Paul hater. I can see how my rant appeared that way, though.
To others, like Cheese:
Please try to be more civil. You are free to disagree with Ron Paul, but it would be nice if you just pointed out why, rather than resorting to insults. I can't promise you that someone won't still try to convert you, but at least you could claim the higher ground. As I said, even Jesus wouldn't pull 100% of the votes. I can live with your disagreement and even respect it. I am only offended by the childish insults.
agenda? and do tell me that the status quo neo dims and cons are somehow better? at last what he wants is goverment as it was 20+ years ago when it had oversight and less stupid regulations.
Compared to the lot of status quo of the 2 party nazis hes a breath of fresh air, the best thing about it is that any of his more "radical" goverment ideas can not put into effect because the other party's have the house and senate, so what changes he can bring will be moderate and something this country needs.
Its fine if you don't like him but you have to admit the system is broken, and hes no worse a choice than the rest.
I don't like a lot of Ron Paul's personal ideas either, but it's really his supporters that are making me not want to give him a chance. This telephone/email harassment garbage doesn't surprise me in the slightest.
Sure RP supporters are vocal and whiny but it s almost better than the placid sheeple who think the 2 party system still works.
@Zebthemarmot - A bit extreme, don't ya think? I can't stand a vast majority of tourists, yet I still go to Seaworld every other month. I don't like a few of my best friend's mutual acquaintances, yet I still hang out with him. Should Ron Paul get elected, it doesn't mean his supporters would be running the country.
@ZippyDSMlee - Love the message, hate the term sheeple. It's not the definition of 'sheeple' that bugs me, it's just the sound of it =)
@DarthCylon - Yes, they in fact can and should. Forget the past 8 years, the events of the past 16 years in the USA should provide enough material for candidates to complain about and fix. Sadly, only a couple are sincerely complaining and planning to do something. The rest are just agreeing with everyone else because it sounds good.
By the by, it is nice to see Bogost is laughing this event off. Some designers/developers vehemently defend their games.
Those of you who don't support him need to ask yourself... why. Why are we still fighting a never ending war? Why is the dollar losing value so quickly? You think you know why, but I bet you really don't. Wake up and get educated. This could be the last free election in America as we know it.
Oddly no one ever wants to discuss issues about Paul.
I wonder why?
All you do with that sort of nonsense is enforce the status quo.
It is not a very good status quo.
Zippy has a cute fuzzy magot infested brain, so I cling to sheeple and lemmings , and a new trem I invented woolies, nothing like a mob of woolies to suck the IQ out of a room.
How long has it been since we have had some form of honor in US politics 30?50?70 years?
Politics is now the realm of the stars and famous it was bad enough when we had normal elites in it but now we have actor/anchor wannabes in office looking good for the camera and not having a clue what to do outside them.
A reason to vote for Ron paul is change for change sakes he wont be able to do much because the way the system is made but at the least it will send a message to the elites aristocrats in office and it will break the tit for tat status quo stride goverment has fallen into over the last decade or 2.
I will support Ron til the last min when it comes time to vote,choosing the lesser of evils generally wins out for me because the electoral collage keeps the peoples vote from picking the winner.
Altho if it comes down to Hitlery or Rudy I'd rather shoot myself >>
I don't come onto your fora and plug games I like. Do reciprocate.
Anyway, there's a reason he's not running as a Libertarian: he's pretty much a tool of the religious right, never met a morally repressive bill he didn't like. He'd probably have Bioware arrested for their little lesbian scene. He's just a better actor than most.
Last I checked he was for states running them selfs, as long the citizens vote for it I see nothign wrong with baning gay marriage(not unions) ,and he can not effect the system to ban gays the courts have ruled otherwise and even the courts can over turn some things states can do and ahve them reroll the bans/laws as any living goverment should.
And hes about as much as a tool for the religious right as Hitlery is get your facts in order sheesh...