Senators on Hand as NIMF Report Card Zings Game Biz for "Ominous Backslide"

December 4, 2007 -

Dr. David Walsh (left) of the National Institute on Media & the Family issued his 12th Annual Video Game Report Card this morning. In doing so he criticized the video game industry for "an ominous backslide on multiple fronts."

Flanked by a pair of U.S. Senators (Joe Lieberman of Connecticut and Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota) as well as  Congresswoman Betty McCollum (D-MN), Walsh awarded an overall grade of C to the game business. The report card explains:
 

Assessing the performance of the gaming industry this year is a difficult task... Console manufacturers, for the most part, seem to understand the importance of making games safe for kids. Microsoft included a timer feature that allows parents to limit their children’s video game playing time, a praiseworthy innovation...

Some software makers made great games that pushed the edge of the envelope in creativity and storytelling. Others, once again, dredged the well of poor taste, with titles like Rockstar’s Manhunt 2 and Eidos Interactive’s Kane & Lynch: Dead Men.

Some game makers also found creative new ways to market adult games on kids, a disgustingly familiar practice over the years. Too few game makers disclose when illegal versions of their games are stolen from their facilities and leaked on the Internet.


Some explanation of "creative new ways to market adult games on [to?] kids" is needed. That's quite an accusatory statement. What games? What companies? What strategies?

The same applies to the statement about leaked games. Is NIMF referring to the notorious Manhunt 2 leak? If so, that was disclosed immediately - by the people who leaked it. In fact, on those rare occasions when a game is leaked, it's always big news in the online game community. Explain, please, NIMF...

National retailers, who did so well on last year's Report Card, got slammed this time around. Big box stores slipped from an "A" to a "D". Meanwhile, game specialty stores moved in the opposite direction, jumping from last year's "F" to a respectable "B". Rental stores, however, flunked. Such dramatic jumps - in either direction - seem a bit odd.

The general category of "Retailer Policies" earned a C+:
 

We were surprised by this year’s surveys... that showed one out of three retailers does not educate its employees on the ESRB ratings. That’s a significant drop from last year. Even more shocking was that only 30 percent of local retailers provided families with information on the game rating system.


The ESRB also received a C+ but, as expected, NIMF did not let the Manhunt 2 controversy pass unnoticed:
 

The Manhunt 2 rating debacle shows that the ESRB needs to change its procedures to close a gaping loophole that some game publishers are all too eager to slip though. The ESRB rating should be based on all of a game’s content and code, locked or unlocked, blurred or unblurred. A game’s rating will be meaningless unless serious steps are taken to prevent games from being unlocked.


NIMF also took the opportunity to renew its call for a universal media content rating system. The Halo-in-church controversy came in for a mention as well:
 

Libraries, schools, churches and other pubic institutions should follow the game’s rating and only allow games appropriate for the age of the youth. By promoting M-rated games, they are undercutting the ESRB’s rating system and undermining parental credibility and authority.


Also included are the results of a lengthy Harris poll on the role of video games in the lives of children. Read the full Report Card here (26-page pdf)...

Comments

@those who take the NIMF seriously
Read this
http://www.d3dgames.com/bbb.html

"Some game makers also found creative new ways to market adult games on kids, a disgustingly familiar practice over the years. Too few game makers disclose when illegal versions of their games are stolen from their facilities and leaked on the Internet."

Do they not understand the whole point of marketing something is to make a profit off of it. Take Two is not making a profit off of pirated copies of Manhunt 2. The AO download isn't making people run out and by the watered down ESRB rated version, they'll downloading the good version for free. So by that logic, if I steal Joe Lieberman's porn collection and give it to minors then Joe Lieberman is marketing porn to minors.

It must be nice not living in the realm of reality, and they say us gamers are delusional. That Parental Involvement: C thing is a bit iffy. How do they go from "The report finds that few parents use and understand the ratings when making game choices for their children." to C? If I take a test with 100 questions and get 2 right that doesn't equal a C.

Yet Video Game Industry: C, ESRB Ratings: C+, Game Specialty Stores: B, and Ratings Education: B- pretty much say the gaming industry is doing an average job while the ESRB is doing an above average job. Yet National Retailers: D and Game Rental Shops: F. So it's the gaming industry's fault that Walmart and Blockbuster aren't doing their jobs. Right. Let's not consider the amount of R rated movies sold to minors by Walmart or all the R rated movies rented or sold by Blockbuster. It's all the evil gaming industry's fault.

We're involved in a war, drugs are being sold on the streets, 3.5 million people (1.35 million of which are children) are homeless in this country but something as pointless as video games are a primary concern. We must be saved from the evil video games. God bless our American politicians for their knowledge that once the evil video games are stopped from destroying us all Iraq will become ours, drugs will cease to exist and everyone will have a home.

What gets me is why anyone gets worked up about this. This is so obviously biased as to be meaningless, then tossing in a few politicians ( Lieberman) is just tossing Nuts on the fruitcake. This was not written for consumers as much as it was for Parental Watch Groups who have also proven to be biased and narrow minded and politicians trying to appeal to such groups to gain favor.
Slaming retailers stinks of JBTs "sting" about minors being able to purchase M rated games. The numbers have been shown (and proven) many times that less the 2% of said minors do so but I guess they cannot allows facts to interfere with their report.

Oh well there are holes in this report big enough to drive through. Would not suggest losing any sleep over it.

Can we just link the FTC report that dispels all these myths he's spouting as fact, and be done with it?

~~All Knowledge is Worth Having~~

@ cppCrusader

Well in that case it was endorced by Rockstar. But it still was not a promotion by Nintendo as NIMF is claiming here.

I have a hard time believing that a majority of parents don't know what their kids are doing. Whatever happenned to personal responsibility?

I work at a rental outlet and I can understand the low grading - I'll almost never withhold an M-rated game from a minor. Why? The parent is usually standing right there. Or, if they aren't, they're usually waiting outside in their car or at home, and if they have to come in/receive a call about the item their child is renting they get pissed off for the inconvenience.

Parents either already know about the rating system, etc. and the ability to control what their children rent or purchase by modifying their rental account, or they don't know and don't care to find out because they're ignorant. I'm not going to take responsibility for them or their children. Why the hell should I?

I would really like to see parents step up to the plate one day and take care of their own damn children so that watchdog organizations like these wouldn't have to. It would be great if we could stop scapegoating the ills of the entire world on a new medium or media every couple of decades or so, too.


Oh, and these watchdog organizations and people - while they -are- busy scapegoating my preferred form of entertainment, could they at least do so accurately? They keep making the same uninformed claims about things like "haxored" versions of the game and user-generated content. If it's not the movie industry's fault when someone illegally downloads a film, why is it the game industry's fault if someone illegally downloads a copy of their game to access content not available in the retail version. Or why is it their fault when someone creates a mod? That's ridiculous, and we all know it. I wish the ignorant politicians and watchdog groups with their heads up their asses could try to realize this as well. If you're going to make outlandish claims and blame people for things beyond their control, you might as well go all the way: let's start blaming car manufacturers for automotive accidents. That sounds like it could be fun.

Anyway...

/end rant

@Saint13

My parents tried playing video games with me when I grew up. There is only so many times they can lose before it gets really, really old. I'd also get bored pretty quickly and move onto other things...

*sniff* *eyes water* Argh...*sniff* my allergies towards ignorance *sneezes* are acting up.

(Some game makers also found creative new ways to market adult games on kids, a disgustingly familiar practice over the years.)

I must of missed the commercial for Manhunt 2 during saturday morning cartoons.

@x(wai)x

Actually, the ESRB rerated Manhunt 2 because the offensive content was completely removed. The blurring effect which was added for the stealth kills, from what the ESRB stated, was not necessary for the rerate -- and appears to have been Rockstar possibly trying to ensure that the game will get an M rating and out the door on their Halloween release date.

I had forgotten about the lack of code here, so I apologize for the attempt to italicize.

I just had a thought. Why is that movies are allowed to release unrated versions when video games are effectively banned from the market with an AO rating? What justifies the huge discrepancy?

Well, I don't agree with all of it, but I find myself agreeing to this statement:

'Libraries, schools, churches and other pubic institutions should follow the game’s rating and only allow games appropriate for the age of the youth. By promoting M-rated games, they are undercutting the ESRB’s rating system and undermining parental credibility and authority.'

However, this doesn't address the issue of Parental Consent forms, if a 15 year old has a signed letter from the Parent saying they can play Halo 3 at some public setting, where does NIMF stand on that? What is the Secret of NIMF? (sorry).

Oh please, the fools at NIMF wouldn't know anything about gaming if the gaming gods zapped em all in the arse with a borrowed bolt of lightening. They're so deep in politics they're completely untrustworthy! It's a sham to even have to listen to such bull.

............... no comment on people who dont work in the industry

I love this:

Some game makers also found creative new ways to market adult games on kids, a disgustingly familiar practice over the years. Too few game makers disclose when illegal versions of their games are stolen from their facilities and leaked on the Internet.


I guess they consider Rockstar and the whole Manhunt 2 fiasco to be reflective of the consolidated views and practices of the video game industry. Although, even with all the fuss, it was never once advertised on children's programming, websites, print media or any other children's product yet it was succefully marketed to children?

messing with the code is a crime why do they not get this

Yknow, there's a version of the Punch-Out! rom floating around the web where all the fighters have had their boxers removed. I don't believe Nintendo's ever commented on that particular hack. Obviously, we have to take the big N to task for refusing to go public with the precise details of emulation, since any kid with an Etch-A-Sketch can turn the ending of Super Mario Bros. into an 8-bit pixelated sex scene!

(Actually, I would go along with forcing Nintendo to divulge their programming secrets if it would help the various Japanese translation groups in their efforts. My unmitigated desire for an English patch of Mother 3 trumps my sense of free speech for violent gaming. Where's the "half winking, half serious" smiley when I need it? ;| Yeah, that'll do.)

Her comes more holes to play in:
But right now, families and retailers have
put too much faith in the current ratings system; the ESRB has put too much trust in the gaming industry; and some in the gaming industry have not done enough to monitor themselves.

Is faith in the current ratings system really a bad thing? I would rather trust that the ESRB is doing thier job than constantly worry that it isn't. But I guess when you have the time to pick and peck at the ratings system looking for loopholes trust in the ratings system is a bad thing.
Seventy two percent of parents understand little or nothing about video game ratings. This is surprising, given the efforts over the years to provide in-store displays by retailers, public service announcements (PSAs) by the ESRB, and ratings disclaimers in television ads by game makers. And, when compared to TV ratings, which are not required for television programming, twice as many parents say they understand TV ratings compared to video game ratings (54% vs. 27%).

Is it me or am I the only one that does not know what the ratings on TV mean? I know the age part, but I cannot fo the life of me figure out the letter "descriptors" under the age rating. But eh, that is just me. I guess I am one of the 46%. I would think that it would be easier to understand the ESRB ratings since they spell out all the descriptors.
On one important matter kids and parents seem to agree: video games are causing family friction.

Leisure activities have always been a source of friction in the family. The kids would rather be having fun than doing homework or chores. I would think that most of these arguments are about not being able to save the game before the parent shuts it off.
In a significant shift from last year, only 59 percent of retailers educate customers about the ESRB ratings, either through signage, brochures, or videos. In 2006, our survey found that 73 percent of retailers educated their customers about the ratings.

I would like to see the stores that the surveyed for both years. This change could have easily been made by calling more of the offending retailers than the year before of a simple change in all retailers called last year.
Another dimension is the lack of education sales clerks receive from their employer. Although nine out of 10 sales clerks say they understand the ESRB rating system, only 60 percent of stores train clerks on how to enforce the rating on a game’s box.

I will admit that this is a problem. If these numbers are anywhere near accurate, then change needs to happen.
The Entertainment Software Rating Board’s system for etermining the ratings of games needs review and some loopholes regarding locked and blurred content must be closed. One incident in particular highlights the need for new procedures to ensure that content
only appropriate for adults does not fall into the hands of minors.

I will give you one guess as to what they are refering to here. That's right. Manhunt 2. Manhunt 2 exposes the flaws in the ratings process and why the rating systme needs to be scrapped. After all the ESRB didn't make a press release stating that all the hidden and unblurred content was reviewed and was complient with the M rating... oh wait they did.
M-rated games, officially sanctioned for 17-year-olds and
widely available to much younger children, should not contain easily unblurable or unlockable AO-rated adult content, “blurred” or not. The ratings procedures should take into account not only all the official content of regular gameplay, but all of the code on the discs.

Um... What did I just say?
A continuing trend of questionable marketing practices on the part of the game makers that the National Institute on Media and the Family believes undermines the ESRB’s attempts to make the ratings
matter. In one instance, an M-rated game, Kane & Lynch: Dead Men, was promoted on MySpace.com with a contest to win attendance at a Playboy photo shoot. In another example, the supposedly family friendly Nintendo Wii promoted the launch of Manhunt 2 on the console with a special edition Wii which had fake blood splattered all over it.

I believe that Myspace as a whole is not the best place to be letting your kids have unsupervised time on. As for the contest, it most likely was only valid for people 18 and up.

As for the Manhunt Wii, I literally laughed out loud. I remember the contest on Joystiq. That console was a fan mod and not Nintendo endorsed. I think they need to do a little more research before making such accusatory statements.

That's all Folks.

Some software makers made great games that pushed the edge of the envelope in creativity and storytelling. Others, once again, dredged the well of poor taste, with titles like Rockstar’s Manhunt 2 and Eidos Interactive’s Kane & Lynch: Dead Men.

Hey, NIMF, here's a hint: There will always be someone that makes something that is in poor taste. Movies, books, TV shows, games, etc.

That doesn't mean that everyone else should get blamed for it.

Some game makers also found creative new ways to market adult games on kids, a disgustingly familiar practice over the years. Too few game makers disclose when illegal versions of their games are stolen from their facilities and leaked on the Internet.

So, translation, Rockstar did their usual controversy sells thing, and you consider that marketing to children? Or do you consider someone pirating early versions of the game to be marketing to children instead/as well? As for not disclosed, please, quit lying through your teeth. Any game that gets leaked to the internet pre-release is going to get reported on. Game makers aren't the first ones to report it, because guess what? They don't know that someone's got a copy they're going to put on the internet until after it's happened.

The Manhunt 2 rating debacle shows that the ESRB needs to change its procedures to close a gaping loophole that some game publishers are all too eager to slip though. The ESRB rating should be based on all of a game’s content and code, locked or unlocked, blurred or unblurred. A game’s rating will be meaningless unless serious steps are taken to prevent games from being unlocked.

That's not a gaping loophole. First of all Manhunt 2 was rated on all content, locked or unlocked, blurred or unblurred. The problem your fragile little minds are having trouble with is that it gets an M rating with or without the blur due to the stuff they already cut out. Second, by that logic Starcraft should receive an AO rating as I could make a mod for it that turned all units into gyrating penises, and replace all FMV cinematics with porn. Third spend some freaking time around some game mod communities. You'll learn in real short order how many people have fun taking apart games to see what makes them tick, and how difficult it is to stop people from doing so.

Libraries, schools, churches and other pubic institutions should follow the game’s rating and only allow games appropriate for the age of the youth. By promoting M-rated games, they are undercutting the ESRB’s rating system and undermining parental credibility and authority.

Or they could continue to do what they're doing, and trust the maturity of older teens, and trust their parents to know what their kids can handle.

Yeesh, as always, their "Report Card" is a bunch of completely arbitrary crap.

I don't really understand the marketing to children comment. I don't think that Rockstar does that. They make entertainment for ADULTS, they don't mix words on that. It's their niche, let Nintendo and THQ go after the kids.

What was one of Rockstars most popular games? GTA Vice City. How does a video game set in the 1980's and is inspired by Miami Vice apeall to kids today? That game was built from top to bottom for the 30 year old crowd. And what about The Warriors? That movie came out before a lot of kids were born.

If they wanted to appeal to kids, they would be doing things a lot differently.


And the cover of GTA has a hooker and a gun on it, so don't go around claiming ignorance when you buy the game for your little brats! You should be able to tell whats in there based on that alone.

That woman is not fit to bear the name Amy.

Random blurp from the research section of the report:

As has been found repeatedly, research reported this year demonstrates that players learn from and are affected by the content of the games they play. In one study, 375 adolescent and young adult cancer patients were randomly assigned to play either a commercial video game or also a game developed to teach about cancer and its treatment (Re-Mission). Those who played Re-Mission had significantly higher gains in cancer knowledge (Beale, Kato, Marin-Bowling, Guthrie, & Cole, 2007).


Um... So kids who play a game about cancer and its treatment learn more about cancer and its treatment than kids who play a random game? Go figure...?

Ooh! Ooh!

More fun from the survey section:

This YouthQuerySM was conducted online


First mistake.

All sample surveys and polls, whether or not they use probability sampling, are subject to multiple sources of error which are most often not possible to quantify or estimate, including sampling error, coverage error, error associated with nonresponse, error associated with question wording and response options, and post-survey weighting and
adjustments. Therefore, Harris Interactive avoids the words “margin of error” as they are misleading. All that can be calculated are different possible sampling errors with different probabilities for pure, unweighted, random samples with 100% response rates. These are only theoretical because no published polls come close to this ideal.


What I read was, "This survey is just as or more unreliable as all surveys."

Respondents for this survey were selected from among those who have agreed to participate in Harris Interactive surveys. The data have been weighted to reflect the composition of the U.S. 8-18 year old population. Because the sample is based on those who agreed to be invited to participate in the Harris Interactive online research panel, no
estimates of theoretical sampling error can be calculated.


So you had to be selected and invited. What is your selection criteria?

This Harris Poll® was conducted online within the United States between September 11 and 18, 2007 among 2,392 adults (aged 18 and over) of whom 690 have a child in their household.


If you are surveying parents why aren't more parents included?

Alright that is the end of the whole thing. I hope that my boredom has not bothered any of you.

@ Buckeye531

http://www.d3dgames.com/bbb.html

I'm glad to see that happened, but I'm guessing nothing came of it. It's over a year old and I don't recall hearing anything about it.

This stuff is so full of shit, I think I've figured out how they do it.

First, the write down a bunch of excuses and throw them into a hat, and pull out a few one by one. Then the do the same thing with letters. And done!

And since it's the Internet, they go look up porn after XD

I think their "reason" (insofar as there was any real reasoning to these ratings) for giving game rental shops an F (I guess they mean Blockbuster or something, or maybe Gamefly, I could see someone younger than 18 managing to get M-rated games through Gamefly if their parent doesn't pay any attention) is probably just to give something an F (especially since I sincerely doubt they backslid in any real tangible way, they're probably just the same as last year and made no real progress). If everything got a C or higher people would ask why they were still complaining.

@Nekowolf

Except.. We already knew about that. It's how almost every Watchdog Group, Agency and Charity work.

Nah, they use different things, like, PTC, they throw darts.

See, the keyword was "almost".

Some game makers also found creative new ways to market adult games on kids, a disgustingly familiar practice over the years.


Surely they must not be talking about video games and instead talking about those Aquapets toys with the unfortunate phallic shlong shape.

M-rated games, officially sanctioned for 17-year-olds and
widely available to much younger children, should not contain easily unblurable or unlockable AO-rated adult content, “blurred” or not. The ratings procedures should take into account not only all the official content of regular gameplay, but all of the code on the discs.


Sorry, it's not very easy to put restraints on the hacker and mod community. When there's a will, there's a way.

Libraries, schools, churches and other pubic institutions should follow the game’s rating and only allow games appropriate for the age of the youth. By promoting M-rated games, they are undercutting the ESRB’s rating system and undermining parental credibility and authority.


The only point I agree 100% on. But watch out for that typo, it's a doozy.

All in all, it looks like this report wasn't made to inform the average consumer, but rather certain lobbyist groups.

Good lord, these people can be morons. Publishers should let people know that cracked versions are available? Why on earth would NIMF want publishers to enhance the public's knowledge when a crack is available? How would they propose publishers enforce this without also enhancing children's knowledge about the hack's existance?

How is anyone supposed to take any of these ratings seriously when they're all over the chart year after year? The lack of consistency alone tells me they're doing something very wrong, regardless of what they're measuring. At the very least we should see trends, preferably in response to real world events. All I see is arbitrary value assignments, and I'm forced to assume the logic behind them is flawed.

"Too few game makers disclose when illegal versions of their games are stolen from their facilities and leaked on the Internet."

Gee. I wonder why. If someone stole my latest creation and leaked it onto the internet, I'd certainly want to make sure everyone knew where to get it. Beyond that though, they *do* make it known. Big stinks are thrown up when a major game is leaked. Is he getting confused with simple zero-day piracy of PC titles? That's so rampant that it's hard to find a piece of software that *isn't* available online.

"A game’s rating will be meaningless unless serious steps are taken to prevent games from being unlocked."

Simply cannot be done.

woah woah woah... there was a Manhunt 2 version of the Wii with blood splatters? that almost makes me want to buy that crap game just for the Wii.

@ Conejo

It was a fan mod that was given away on Joystiq and other blogs. The unit was never an official endorcement from Nintendo nor from Rockstar/Taketwo.

well... i guess i'll just have to make my own Wii detailing.

By promoting M-rated games, they are undercutting the ESRB’s rating system and undermining parental credibility and authority.

Even though they make parents aware that M rated games are played and require parental permission to attend? How exactly is this "undercutting" the ratings?
-- If your wiimote goes snicker-snack, check your wrist-strap...

Too few game makers disclose when illegal versions of their games are stolen from their facilities and leaked on the Internet.

That was all over the freaking news! Where/when/how it happened, and what exactly was leaked... How is that not disclosure?
-- If your wiimote goes snicker-snack, check your wrist-strap...

Figures. That is the only nextgen system I do not own. Nor to be honest intend to buy, being an RPG fan which the Wii is lacking. I did not know that the Wii offered that much freedom for mods and such though.

Odd that these PWGs and their ilk bash games, going sofar (which is really pushing things) to say that even blurred images should not be allowed or should be judged (by the ESRB) as being clearly visable and hense an AO rating. I also find it odd that they seem to want to push for the AO... could it be that they are aware that the nextgen system block those. Ironic isn't it? AO rating means killing the title.

Yet these (self rightous) people seldom seem to go over the people making the mods that push the edges obscenity.
Might it have something to do with the fact that the modders do not have the money that these "fair judges" always want to seek for "damages"?

"A game’s rating will be meaningless unless serious steps are taken to prevent games from being unlocked."

Well, guess what? No matter what kind of protection that game developers put on their code, it will be broken. That is a fact.

It's not the developer's fault that people are ILLEGALLY modifying their games and the stores are selling them to kids.

@ Icehawk

When I say "mod" I mean that it was a paint job. Nothing was changed with the hardware.

@ E. Zachary Knight

Actually, that Manhunt themed Wii giveaway was done by Rockstar, or at least one of them was if there were multiple ones. I first saw it on either the Manhunt 2 site or a newsletter, but Rockstar had you subscribe to their newsletter to enter the giveaway.

Its the only reason I signed up for their newsletter.

@ Old People

We know you don't like us. We don't care.

We don't like you either, trust me.

Fuck off.

- Young People

I've said it before, if you are a parent and cannot understand the ESRB ratings- you are too stupid to procreate and should be sterilized (sp?).

"Whatever happenned to personal responsibility?"

Nobody believes in that anymore, much easier to put the blame on someone or something else.

Memo to NIMF (I doubt you care)
Any hacks into a game or downloading leaked games are a federal crime. Not to mention that a game will always be hacked, no matter what the developer does to prevent said act.

Best line of all: "Too few game makers disclose when illegal versions of their games are stolen from their facilities and leaked on the Internet."

What Game Studio would be retarded enough to TRY TO MAKE IT PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE that pirated copies game was available for free online?

@Rigor Mortis

What Game Studio would be retarded enough to TRY TO MAKE IT PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE that pirated copies game was available for free online?

Take Two? Seriously, they responded to the alleged leak pretty quick... not only confirming it, but eventually tracking down where it happened, and disclosing details as to what was actually leaked...

---

From Ars-Technica:

NIMF argues that one ratings scheme is needed for all media, but the FTC's findings show that even with a ratings system as well known as the MPAA's, compliance is actually less than it is in the gaming industry.

Ouch.
-- If your wiimote goes snicker-snack, check your wrist-strap...
 
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quiknkold@james_fudge not playin all the way through. P.T, Silent Hill(Not sure which), Resident Evil Gamecube Remake, Alien Isolation, Ghostbusters, Outlast, Super Castlevania 410/01/2014 - 6:04pm
james_fudgeI wish I could like that last shout.10/01/2014 - 5:48pm
MechaTama31Tried out Sims 4 on my brother in law's pc. Promptly got my sim exhausted, to soil himself, then sent him without cleaning up to mock people at the museum. Good times...10/01/2014 - 5:33pm
E. Zachary KnightSo they figured out how to share CPU cycles between pools and their advanced emotions engine? Sweet.10/01/2014 - 2:53pm
 

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