I think H & K can kiss off any chance of getting good business from here on out. If there's any justice left in the world, that is.

Ha, and by sises I obviously meant sites. Sises a word? Hmm.... my sp must be broken.

@Evan

Polls are almost never accurate, especially since they don't take into account the kinds of people being polled. Mainly, in this case, there are so many gamers these days that we're bound to have a lot more ignorant morons amongst our ranks than in years past.

Sounds like the H&K's proposal was turned down by the ESA and now they are looking for some revenge.

I'm with Lost Question on this one. I wonder if people are aware that the MPAA, which issues movie ratings, is not a government entity, and not allowing minors into R rated movies is not a government regulation.

Plus, I have a hard time swallowing 55% of gamers want government regulation involved. This brings me to an interesting question, though. Who tends to be more friendly to the video game industry in American politics? I would think it's liberals, since conservatives have the whole "family values" thing going on. I could be wrong though.

Who tends to be more friendly to the video game industry in American politics?

Whoever's the most interested in our votes.

This is probably complete and total BS.

I blame Leland Yee for this.

=)

“Next generation consoles combined with a near-Hollywood experience translates into increased scrutiny for a $7.4 billion industry that seeks to outpace movies and music as the number one choice for entertainment,”

That sums it up, greedy politicians see an opportunity to make a bunch of cash now. I'd like to see the actual questions in this 'poll', I bet they were baited - looking for a specific outcome.

@Catch 33

Sorry for being off topic... but did you ever play Warcraft III?

All that means is that there is still a lot of educating to do.

Being Canadian, my first response to this story was, "oh good, now more companies will come up here where we don't care about the regulation." Then I realized they'd probably all move to Quebec for the subsidies. So go ESA, I guess!

I smell a furry rodent wearing a political pin.

Yeah...this sounds like total, steaming bullshit

@ShadowMagus
I do disagree, that the "right" is more to blame than the "left" for anti-game politics. It seems to me there have been plenty of Democrats involved as well. Here in Michigan, at least, our anti-game laws were originally proposed by a Democrat from Detroit (Hansen Clarke) and heavily promoted by our Democratic governor (Jennifer Granholm).

In my opinion, anti-game laws are not a Republican or Democrat issue; they are a Populist issue. They are written in a vacuum, with no consideration of principle or precedent, and they are based completely on the ephemeral, malleable whims of a population that, overall, doesn't really care about games in the first place.

I think this is why none of the laws have ever stuck. We have a representative government, and we have a constitution. Our whole set-up is designed to dissuade "mob rule." (Yay Founders!)

My personal axiom is "The Populist is always wrong." I can't prove this theory conclusively, but it hasn't failed me yet.

lies.
damn lies.
statistics.

@Masterfink

I agree that they should not be denied the right to publish their findings, just as we have a right to not agree with it.

However, that particular statement has always confused me a little, because if you are going to fight to the death for someone else's' right to have a different opinion, who, exactly, are you going to fight against? Because whoever it is, you are squashing their right to have a different opinion.

Not really relevant, just something that I've often wondered.

"There are liars, damn liars and statistics." -- Mark Twain

Um... come on. This looks like something they didn't even do by themselves, just paid a high school kid to make some random numbers.

Some information on Hill & Knowlton:

http://www.sdlusa.com/medialies/hillnk01.htm

A few months after the Bari bombing, Hill & Knowlton was hired by the Kuwaiti government to generate support for U.S. entry into the Gulf War against Iraq. One of their most successful deceptions was the incubator story. "I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital with guns. They took the babies out of the incubators ... and left the children to die on the cold floor." This was the story told by "Nayirah, " a 15-year old Kuwaiti girl who shocked a public hearing of Congress' Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990. It was widely reported in the media, and helped demonize Iraqis in American public opinion. The young woman was later unmasked as the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador, and Kuwaiti hospital officials interviewed after the Gulf War had ended said no infants had been dumped from incubators, but only a small fraction of those who were exposed to the original propaganda ever learned that.

Well, I've always said polls are full of shit.
Especially polls that are made by someone with a opinion they're trying to pitch.

@Xlorep DarkHelm
Damn, I wish I thought of that quote in my first post.

I wish I knew the methodology behind this survey, but the press release included practically zero info. They do give an email and phone number you can contact to get more info, but I doubt they'd just give that info out freely.

And I can get 100mbps internet for $33.95 while I'm at it...

@Mad_Scientist

1: Do Survey
2: Release the most controversial results (possibly tweaked to be so)
3: Profit

@Father Time
Actually that's not a terrible number for a poll if you randomized your sample well enough. What should definitely be a dead give away is the fact that, as a publicity firm presumably attempting to get the ESA to solicit their services, they have a highly vested economic interest in seeing those numbers fall in such a way to make the ESA believe they need the services of a publicity firm, and as Dennis has pointed out, when you're conducting a poll you can make the results look anyway you want them to. It's like someone who knows nothing about cars taking his car to a mechanic to find out that it apparently "needs" some expensive service that will cost the car owner a couple hundered bucks and lo and behold the mechanic happens to be an expert at just that service.

@Lost Question
Dammit I was going to say the same thing you did, I definitely think a good number of people mistakenly believe it to be a crime for a movie theater to let a kid into an R rated film.

People who want it regulated and stuff are: A) Christian/Some other religion or B) Ignorant and uninformed.

Well duh! People are wired to desire "strong" rulers (which in modern society extends to the entire government). Make a poll asking which government someone would prefer, ensuring that the questions only point out the positives of both, and I promise you that the majority of people would say they prefered the "safer" "stable" one to the "progressive" "liberal" one.

Saying that you'd rather have your government censor a form of entertainment to ensure it's doubleplusgood rather than take a half second to consider whether or not something entitled "Manhunt" is appropriate for your kid, is a logical extension of that.

1) PR firms decides to make sales pitch to an industry.
2) PR firms commissions a poll that coincidently paints said industry in a bad light.
3) Industry tells PR firm no thanks.
4) PR firm releases negative poll results and hurts the public image of the industry that refused it's services.

Basically, what we're dealing with here is pretty much extortion, ableit extortion that would probably be impossible to prove. At least that's how I see things.

@~the1jeffy

Ah, yes, I used to believe that the movie ratings were enforced by law myself. I was surprised to learn how wrong I was. I was also surprised to learn that video game ratings were better enforced. (At the retail level, there's no video game version of theatres to compare to.) And the enforcement of game ratings has improved since then, to the point where they now match theatres even. Funny how those who quote the "40%" figure to bash the game industry convienently forget to point out the enforcement of other forms of media.

"Game ratings enforcement is poor", they say. It's poor compared to what?

the people who support "regulating and censoring games" are probably the ones who voted for Bush and think civil liberties are silly obstacles in the way of government. How can anyone in their right mind say they support government censorship? let alone over half.

i want to know details about the survey population as well as the actual survey itself and record on the information gathering and the creation of reports.

I recommend that you all read "How to Lie with Statistics." It shattered my faith in polls a long time ago.

Anyways, if America wants a constitutional amendment that overturns the bill of rights, then I'm sure we can then accommodate the censorship of video games.

@Skyler

I haven't read it, but I think I've heard a little bit about it.

I remember one such example using two different brands of toothpaste. Crest and Colgate. Out of ten dentists, if four prefer Crest, the other five prefer Colgate, all you gotta do is take the four that like Crest, take only one dentist that likes Colgate, and say "FOUR out of FIVE dentists recommend Crest".

One thing i'm wondering is whether or not the people who said video games should be regulated by the gov't knew that Movies are not gov't regulated; its a very common misconception and one that could alter how you answer a question about gov't regulation... I myself at one time was in favor of gov't regulation of video games on account that i thought Movies were gov't regulated; i simply thought, "well since we regulate movies, why not regulate games; games should be treated like any other medium"... that was ofcourse until someone corrected me...

@Skyler

Actually, here in Texas they shatter that illusion in about the 8th grade.

@ All

Anyone can get these kinds of numbers when you take a poll right outside an AARP meeting that just got out.

This is obviously skewed.

I wouldn't trust that survey for anything. Or any survey for that reason. It's all about how you ask a question. You can get people who are against something to sound like they're for it, just by the simple wording of your question.

Penn & Teller BS Season 4 Episode 9 Numbers had a good example of this.

Either this is a total forgery, or we've been backstabbed to the tenth power.

If those numbers were accurate....ah hell. Cue Big Brother.

Any PR firm should not be allowed to selectively use facts. They can do whatever else they want to keep their image, but not using half-truths. Isn't it pretty much wasted effort on their part if they're going to tuck some of the results of their polls under the carpet? I'd sure be pissed if I was made to work hard for something, only to be told that in hindsight my contribution wasn't helpful to the company.

Sadly, more gamers are for more censorship. I think we have seen this over and over again in forums. Rather then ten years ago public outrage as people discovered we as Americans were getting the kiddy versions of games which turned a lot of gamers into emulation and downloading Japanese Versions and playing a fan based retranslation with the Japanese Versions.

When I go into message boards for example the Final Fantasy boards they released and retranslated the old Final Fantasy games you see hardly any outrage at the new kid friendly translation and the 1950s type of dialogue.

It seems more and more gamers tend to feel that what they see and play should be censored….. I as a gamer and a consumer would unfortunately then be forced to buy Video Games and import them from other regions and play that version and since they region lock many games, I’d have to get a corresponding system.

I think we might be going into a Dark Age of Video Games sadly.

Go ahead, H & K. Savor the fruits of your devious labor if you wish. Let's see if you can still laugh when the Atari generation takes over the government and the press itself.

@ illspirit,
LOL that is pretty comprehensive list you got there.

I am getting so tired of seeing this nonsense about how the government should censor games. Those idiot parents that do not take care of their children need to shut up. Games could not be censored when it comes to the first amendment. If a company wants to make an ultra violent game, then they can. I have the right to play anything I want without these fucken troublemaking groups messing with my rights because they are losers with nothing better to do with their time than to make a law biding gamer like me mad.

That's a nice little list and strawman you created there Ill.

The people who voted that games should be regulated by the government are probably also the idiots who voted Bush into office TWICE.

@Toxicity: Except it's ALWAYS Democrats that sponsor these censorship bills and get re-elected time and time again, so...no. Nice try though.

There are arguments and worse over what our schools need to teach, but here's more evidence of where they're falling short. The people questioned don't know their own rights, don't know their own laws, and certainly don't understand the extent of the freedoms they give up for nebulous uncertainties such as "security". Or the extent to which those freedoms are being curtailed. Without a proper education about these things, and about some of the basic overriding principles and overarching laws guiding our society, it's no wonder that many voters lack the knowledge or the spines to vote against those who blatantly threaten freedom and other bedrock principles--most of us don't know we have them to begin with, and certainly don't understand how much we give away.

@ Darth

Stupid teachers are common and fun to deal with. And yes, any teacher whod oesn't fact-check "common sense" knowledge BEFORE giving it to students is stupid, regardless of actual intellect or skill. That stuff just gets propogated to heinous extents if teachers spread misinformation like that, and they don't get the privelege of the excuse of ignorance when it's a subject they TEACH.

If the easy way--just pointing out, in class so that everyone else knows your teacher is ignorant or else in private if you feel they deserve that respect because it was an honest mistake, correct them privately and let them inform the rest of the class of their error later--but a mistake on this scale, in a subject on which they ought to possess some expertise, is likely just due to laziness and errant assumption; so they really don't deserve such respect, although you may choose to give it to them anyway so you can maintain the sense of being the better person.

In case this isn't enough to fix the underlying problem (for example, if the teacher doesn't care what quality of education students get or constantly makes mistakes due to sheer incompetence or ignorance), publicly discredit the inadequate teacher. Get parents and kids (as many as possible) to--preferably all at once--send formal letters to the principal if you believe that would help.

If not, then address them to the local newspaper complaining about the poor quality and lack of preparedness, which of course gives the parents good reason to fear that such ignorance is common to teachers in [whatever the school name is] and therefore, that the school wastes their taxes. Covince them to demand a review of current teacher education or hiring practices and/or a complete overhaul of the same. Delicious irony would ensue if you get the PTA not only involved but up in arms about this failure on the part of the education taxes go toward quality teachers and schools.

Make sure to send by both snail and email so you can cc the school's principal and have the mailboxes filled up if the e-mails are ignored. Nothing motivates a principal to sack, replace, or "re-educate" teachers who have no idea what they're talking about like public outcries that make him/her look like he/she doesn't care about the quality of the education those parents' taxes go to provide. It's easier to fire teachers than to risk getting fired.

That said, our society gives far too little credit, pay, and education to its teachers, no surprise when public schools are in the same boat. Thus for the record, if you're not in a school with enough money, good luck getting any improvements that don't come through parental involvement and teaching rather than from the school. If making the principal look like an idiot who doesn't deserve his/her position isn't viable, the lesser options tend to be ineffective, and you'll probably learn more playing online games than listening to ill-tempered, underpaid and sorely underqualified, teachers with very low expectations and ability.

But if you are in a decently funded school, pointing out every mistake the teacher makes right there in class is more fun when you bring hard evidence of his/her ignorance and present that in class, too (the next day is ok but not as satisfying, if you didn't come prepared, although you do look good for jsut knowing, offhand, what the teacher didn't know). Then you have to deal with potential biased-grading issues, but if the teacher honestly lets something like that influence his/her grading, at least you'll have evidence of unfairness to such an extent the teacher is proven unfit to hold the position, the sort of evidence that can even break tenure.

The fact that people think the goverment should regulate video games makes me agree with the Helios AI:"The checks and balances of democratic governments were invented because human beings themselves realized how unfit they were to govern themselves. They needed a system, yes, an industrial-age machine."


Can we get that machine now so I don't have to see their faces?

Ok for starters id be with the 55% saying they should do something to stop it being sold to children

But as for everything else id say they paid people to vote one way or the other...
or just picked people who they knew wopuld react the way they wanted
or just made up the statistics so they could steal our rights without looking bad by playing the half of your own want us to regulate

Note its probably that last one