December 12, 2007 -
Matthew Murray, who killed four people and wounded several others during a pair of horrific church shootings over the weekend, apparently wasn't permitted to play video games while growing up.The Denver Post reports:
On another website, a poster named nghtmrchld26, believed by police to be Murray, said he rebelled against an upbringing that forbade him from buying rock music, video games and popular DVDs.
Meanwhile, the All Spin Zone has published a lengthy collection of Murray's online postings:
Growing up, TV, Internet/computers, video games, music, Christian contemporary music, movies and books were all extremely restricted.
Despite that, Murray apparently did play some unspecified video games:
Yeah Diamond girl, when I was a teenager my mother would do a pat down to check for music, DVDs and video games whenever I came out of an electronics store like Best Buy or Circuit City. I’d still obtain things anyways, it was like getting drugs from a drug dealer, EVERYTHING had to be done in secret. lol
I remember getting thrown around the room and hit while getting interrogated about whether or not I had video games and DVDs... I remember having to listen to everything in secret, at very low volume levels or with headphones, whether it was video games, TV, DVDs, or music/radio.
GP: It's always difficult to know whether to even raise this issue in the aftermath of a shooting rampage. However, since the Denver Post gives it a mention, I believe it is appropriate for discussion. And, of course, we know that certain critics will be pushing a video game connection, however tenuous, in any tragedy like this.
In the final analysis, Murray seems like a very depressed, very angry, very disturbed young man who had access to weapons.
UPDATE: All Spin Zone has more online messages posted by Murray. They reveal even more of his deeply troubled life.
Comments
I'd go mad too, if I weren't allowed to read things like Harry Potter or The Golden Compass*.
*Boo-yah, I went there.
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I can’t think of a time where either a single atheist or group of atheists shot up a church, flew into a building, or shoved people into a gas chamber.
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I don't doubt that it has probably happened in history, but it is an interesting point.
What's really depressing is that there are, without doubt, groups who will now try to paint this young man as an atheist 'plant' in their society, sent purely to do this. We all know it's bull, but I've seen enough of humanities inclination to blame 'things' rather than fix the actual problem to know that it will happen.
How do we even know that his parents did what he claimed they did? I'm waiting until more evidence turns up before passing judgement.
i see now.
each one hold his own responspilty.
how did i miss that?
a fantasic point nightwng2000;)
Hell, I can't see how he even got through school if he was restricted from 4 things out of that list. I know when I was in Middle School and High School - more so High School - every week, and sometimes every day, there was an assignment that required me to use atleast one of the things on that list of restricted items - and yes that does include video games.
Now I could launch into a fundamentalist rant, however, upon request, I will not. I more will take this to the line of what is bound to happen based purely upon the restrictions laid: Rebellion. I mean, hell I know if I was THAT restricted, I would rebel like crazy. I wouldn't kill anyone, but I would still rebel like mad. Such leads me to wonder, who will be the first to tie the parents to this? Hell, in some jurisdictions (see second paragraph regarding schooling and usage of resources), what the parents did could even constitute child abuse.
These are just some of the things I would like to throw out there.
----
Papa Midnight
There is nothing wrong with our gun control system in the USA. The only people who think there is are people who've never worked with it, and the anti-gun crowd (and the people the anti-gun crowd has fooled into believing that all police officers are shot with Assault Rifles, those evil, evil tools of carnage).
It's not chrisitianity that's to blame, its the pentacostal lifestyle, which is terrible at socializing their young peole into American society. You can't go to the movies, you can't go to dances, you can't do anything. It's one of those sects that is just crazy when all is said and done, and as I mentioned before, people raised pentacostal have trouble later in life (for the most part).
Of course, it's not only the parents' fault that their kid ended up like this. He was, apparently, thrown out of activities in certain other religious groups because he 'talked to voices in his head' "dont' worry Richard, I won't shoot you... the voices like you" DIRECT FUCKING QUOTE.
This kid was as crazy as a hatter.
@Black Manta
In order for that shift in Paradigm for our Mental Institutes, we'd need to change the politician's views. Which would require not voting in Hitlery, Huckabee, etc., and really, it is more of a wait until the gamer generation gets into the political arena before we'll see a policy shift.
FINALLY, A POLICY SHIFT?
This kid's parents are jokes. They should be held directly accountable for their actions. Too often we lay blame (correctly) at the feet of the individual in these cases, but there is often more the one individual at fault. A part of me wishes for them to be strung up with all those other ignorant, self-righteous imbeciles; but the other part of me knows that would be wrong also. So, I'll settle for something else -- public ridicule.
Too often, I think that people should be made to pass a test of competence and decency before they are allowed to raise even their own children.
X = Green Beans, Turnips, and Dallas Cowboy Football Games.
Since Dennis forbade me from speaking my mind freely, and refuses to acknowledge the evil motivating factor behind this attack, I'll leave you to ponder over what X exactly is. I'm tired of people not taking a firm stand against the perverse X hate that is censoring, destroying, and attacking nearly every right in this country [including games]. This is a fine example of what happens when the autonomy of an individual is suppressed by X.
Keep patting yourselves on your back, wiggling your toes, and thinking that everything is okay. They'll keep chipping away at your freedoms, enforcing X status quos, and inhibiting the progression of the industry.
He was an adult. I know quite a few people who had extremely over-bearing parents, christian and non-christian and they are not murdering other people.
None of you know what really happened in his home. You don't KNOW what manner in which he was treated. What the murderer says may have been true but we just don't know, but you seem anxious to take his word for it. The only person responsible for his actions as an adult was him. It is against the law to murder. He knew this, he diecided to break the law. It's all on him.
How long had he been out of his home? Do you know? Are you truly being rational about this making judgement on these parents you don't truly know anything about?
I knew the Dallas Cowboys were evil, but not THAT evil!
Fuck you guys. The Patriots, there's the evil football devil.
OH
MY
GAWD
I agree with you on something...
"...X = Dallas Cowboy Football Games..."
That's what i'm expecting will happen here...
Austin Lewis am not blaming chrisitianity.
no.
like you said, diffrent sects.
exstreem sects.
as 4 gun control.
think a bout it, gun crimes, including school shotting.
why its so easy to get guns?
am not blaming the police.my dad is in this police;)
I think it is an equal an opposite reaction to the way gamers are generally considered by politicians, who judge us by Media that they know little if anything about. Those of us who post on here have had to deal with ignorance from all kinds of sources, it can be kind of contagious.
I don't agree with blaming the parents, though the contradictions in his life, according to his posts, probably didn't help, but yeah, we shouldn't go claiming that everything this young man says is stone-cold fact without some sort of confirmation, else we sink to the same level of Thompson and others.
You're right, what's wrong in this instance was that he choose to break the law for the law is our only measurement of right and wrong. [/sarcasm]
I agree with you that each individual has to take responsibility for their choices. So what about the responsibility of the parents? It was his own individual choice to walk into those churches and shoot people in cold-blood -- that's his cross to bear. It is his parents' cross for their failure as parents. Instead of bringing a child into an environment of love, support, and decency, they choose to create an environment of oppression and abuse.
"They're all the same! Doesn't anybody see this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!!!!"
"Instead of bringing a child into an environment of love, support, and decency, they choose to create an environment of oppression and abuse. "
is true or not. You read the same story I did. You have condemned them and I have neither condemned or absolved them because, just like you, I don't know all the facts. The one I do know at this point is that he was an adult and he fucking shot and killed people he didn't know.
Because parents are fucking retarded in most cases.
An FBI study including 112 inmates from violent crimes found that 109 out of the 112 had gotten their firearms illegally, often from other members of gangs in exchange for money or drugs or from houses they stole from (because contrary to popular belief, people break in during the day, not at night, so leaving a shotgun under your bed will result in your shotgun being stolen, sawed off, and used in the next break-in).
The main problem with crazy people getting weapons lies in the hands of psychologists/psychiatrists, many of whom never bothered to add the information to their record that they had been in a mental institute and were unfit for gun ownership. In one state (Arizona, I think, but I honestly can't remember) there were only 3 people in the whole state who were restricted from gun ownership because they were instituionalized in a mental care facility, although there were (obviously) many more people put in the loony bin than recorded.
Don't blame gun control, let's place blame where blame is due; with lazy fucking doctors.
Also, goddamn it kid, learn to write a fucking sentence.
"one look? ONE LOOK?"
And someone will still blame video games, not, for instance, that he appears to have been physically and mentally abused.
sidenote:
wow, Pandralisk. you really can't leave it alone, can you? are you going to start calling GP a stooge of the religious right now?
are you going to strike down JT and take his place at the emperor's side now that the hatred fills you?
EZK: This is the type of stuff that Dennis wants to avoid in this discussion. Please don't start it.
"Since Dennis forbade me from speaking my mind freely, and refuses to acknowledge the evil motivating factor behind this attack".
It came from Jack Thompson. It's not entirely your message, it's how you present it. Which is precisely the reason Jack has gotten banned before.
People are always looking to blame something other than the person who pulled the trigger. In fact, the person who pulled the trigger was to blame.
Frankly, i don't see that as the cause.
I think that what is really the cause here is the problem off indoctrination and Parental domination.
Dont get me wrong, parents need to keep certain limits on there kids of course, but the kind of isolation and indoctrination this kid went through would have made me a violent looney as well.
Religons come in an endless supply of varitions practicly. Slapping blame on them just cause the kid was a christian or something seems almost as silly as blaming games.
Anyway, Im sure some nuts will bitch that games were the cause.
We all know thats bs.
Dennis, you should set up some kind of plan to generate revenue from this site, you know, like every time JT fails to cite a source, or every time Pandralisk fails to add to the conversation, you get a nickel. I'm sure there's gotta be someone out there willing to pay those that have to put up with morons.
Dammit.
In the entire article this is what scares the hell out of me. The wording gives me a sensation that this is normal, like a traffic accident or somebody dying in a fire. The it's sad but it happens all the time. I know GP probably didn't intend to give this impression, but nonetheless, it scares me.
It's the whole "you can parent your child, but you can't parent your child's friends" debate that I hate oh so very much.
Pandralisk, remember one thing - It's always the insane man who screams to the world that he's sane and everyone else is crazy. That is how you come across.
Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if they did. The answer to that is of course, 'If the parents had got involved with their child instead of treating them like a robot without feelings or opinions of their own, he wouldn't have had to mislead them, being a good parent doesn't purely mean making sure your child does what you tell them (and, strictly speaking, he didn't even do that). It's about understanding your child and helping your child understand you.'
It's often the second half that is forgotten
Matthew made his choice. He alone is responsible for his actions. However I do think that its important to try and understand the circumstances that made him feel like this was his only recourse. I have a feeling that the lack of trust, compounded with suspected emotional abuse, and several other factors may have contributed to his mental state. Does it excuse what he did? Not at all, but it does help us understand what happened.
Add the fact that the parents may have included mental and physical abuse in the mix (nothing has been confirmed 100% either way), and you really do have a ticking time bomb on your hand.
The kid was sick, weather that came from the way he was raised, or mental instability independent of anything else, is still up in the air. If he was mentally ill in the first place, for any reason, and you tack on the way he was raised, and you've got the spark to set the bomb off.
And what game would that be?
"Another memorable incident occurred at a missionary Christmas party where attendees grouped together and some sang songs in the talent-show atmosphere, Werner said.
"He just went up there to sing, and one of the songs was 'I'm One Step Closer to the Edge,' which really upset people," Werner said.
The Linkin Park song culminates with the anguished phrase "I'm about to break!" "
Could it be that he just happened to like that song? I have that on my Ipod
The game was a game based around the Rock Group 'Kiss', who did the cover version of Argent's 'God gave Rock'N'Roll to you' in the Bill and Ted movie. It's widely considered to be an absolutely awful game.
Also, KISS, Psycho Circus - The Nightmare Child was released in 2000, so even if game legislation HAD been in place, he was 19 at the time.
@G-dog
If your being sarcastic, mmm
If your not, I suggest you look at Soviet fucking Russia under everyones favorite Joseph Stalin. Siberiean Gulag, gas chamber, just another way to die.
@Pandralisk
Thanks for proving my point, if you shove anything down someones throat without giving them a choice, it tends to lead to rebellion, and in extreme cases violence. Go figure, taking away someones ability to choose doesn't end well. Give people a choice even the illusion of choice any you will be surprised at how easy they are to deal with.
Not to mention huge amounts of social isolation don't do anyone good.
I suspect that even more have been persecuted by China's anti-religion laws.
Guess who stopped him from continuing he spree.
Actually, I'm hearing two stories from friends at Colorado Spring (at USAFA)
1. He killed himself in the end.
2. Assam (the woman) did in fact end the man's life.
The thing is, it isn't the guns that are the problem, it is the fact that that people who should never own guns can get hold of them.
Read my earlier post on how that's happening.
Thanks, yeah, that's a BIG problem, things like depression and paranoia don't get 'cured' merely 'controlled' and such things need to be noted on medical records, especially as far as things like Gun Ownership is concerned.
so it can't be the fact that his parents practically censored him from reality or the fact that he was a seriously twisted individual. No, it HAS to be X.
X= Isn't it obvious?
because in all other countries, only law abiding citizens have guns?
Bloody fucking mess right there.
Not to mention how do you determine eligability, is a guy who was depressed in middle school not allowed to own a gun in his twenties? The hard part with that is trying to figure out who sets the rules and who has an agenda when making the rules.