December 17, 2007 -
There is this lawyer in Miami. Maybe you've heard of him...In his latest column for Electronic Gaming Monthly, Entertainment Consumers Association (ECA) president Hal Halpin offers his perspective on Jack Thompson:
For the nine years that I ran the [game retailers association], I subscribed to the same thinking as my counterparts at other game-biz groups: Ignore Jack Thompson and he’ll go away. It was the biggest mistake that the industry has ever made... we left Thompson... as the only person at the mic when the media came calling.
Doug Lowenstein... in many respects, my mentor – gave a historic farewell speech last year... In part, he blamed the enthusiast media who covered Thompson as the reason for his popularity and advised them to stop covering him. Many did...
Turns out that the “ignore him and he’ll go away” strategy backfired... [Thompson]... is intelligent, articulate, passionate, and camera-ready.
You may not subscribe to his philosophies or appreciate his liberal interpretation of the facts, but you should respect him... And while you may know that his version of the facts isn’t the same as yours, your parents, grandparents, teachers... don’t.
One of the major strategic changes we at the ECA undertook was to stop ignoring Thompson. We all just need to be smart about it to avoid enabling him. Don’t avoid the discussion; engage it head-on. Don’t jump on a forum thread and flame the man; doing so demeans your argument and empowers your detractors. Instead, voice your opinion, become involved, and speak out.
It’s time to fight back!
Full Disclosure Dept: The ECA is the parent company of GamePolitics.
Comments
The video game industry has spent literally millions of dollars attacking me personally and trying to get me disbarred. The fiction peddled here by Hal Halpin that the industry has ignored me is rebutted by going to google, putting in my name, and coming up with literally tens of thousands of references to me at industry sites decrying my efforts.
What Mr. Halpin doesn’t want to admit is that IN SPITE OF the incredible efforts to smear me, intimidate me, and destroy me, I keep going and keep putting my message out there. This is testimony not to my perseverance but to the truth of what I have to say. There is a REASON Senator Clinton has called upon me to help her. There is a REASON that Hal Halpin’s own brother, Spence, has put me in his Moral Kombat documentary. The reason is that I have, since 1999, been in the public square alerting the American people to the anomaly that unlike in every other country in the world, Mature-rated games in America are still sold to kids under 17.
The real fact is this, which Hal Halpin, who is just a paid lobbyist, wishes to ignore: If the industry would agree to stop selling mature-rated games to kids under 17, then I would be utterly unnecessary. I would have nothing left to say on the subject.
That is why the recent poll that the ESA commissioned is so damning: 60% of the American people want a law to stop the indiscriminate sale of these adult games to kids. Yet Hal Halpin and Doug Lowenstein before him have jumped into courtrooms to defend their “constitutional right” to sell these adult products to kids.
This idiotic position–that a mature rating on a game really doesn’t mean what it says–is the source of the industry’s problem, not Jack Thompson.
When hypocrites like Hal Halpin deal with that, then they can forget about me. I will be a man without a mission. Until then, I’m going to kick this industry’s butt from New Mexico to Alabama to Philadelphia to New York to Connecticut where Hal pretends to care about other people’s children that he pushes adult games to.
Jack Thompson
John Bruce = Mold.
The last debate I had was against Lorne Lanning in a hostile setting in Philadelphia. I more than held my own. Hal, just get better opponents for me if you think you're losing the debate. Better yet, stop engaging in fraudulent and deceptive trade practices, like selling adult-rated products to kids.
Jack Thompson
Exactly. Respect that JT has a different viewpoint and debate that not the individual.
@ you know who (aka JT?)
You ask for facts so please provide a source for your "60% of the American People want a law to stop the indiscriminate sale of these adult games to kids." Also, please define adult games and kids by ratings and age.
Just the facts ^_^
@EZK Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Brett Schenker
Online Advocacy Manager
The ECA - www.theeca.com
You mentioned Google? Wait a second, you countered your own arguement about the "massive anti-Jack Thompson" plot.Google lists the results of web searches by total number of hits those websites accumlate (execpt the paid ads towards the very top of the searches ,but those links are marked advertaised).
I don't know if that is a 'respectful' or not, I wouldn't harass or intimidate him, but then, I wouldn't harass or intimidate anyone, which I think is the point of this article, but that certainly doesn't make him any less of a pillock.
I hope this one gets through the spam machine....
(It's not like I consider your silence a win on our part, someone else would step up to take your place.)
Thanks for being such an awesome moderator! I should have noticed JT's posting was only a couple minutes old before responding. He should appreciate the expedience of how an inappropriate response was addressed.
So beautifully ironic.
Silly question. What does he consider a win? Anything that he does not blatantly lose... and some of those. Example: He claimed he "Won" the debate with Lorne yet at best he simply did not lose.
Our debating his points is a Win for him as well. Mind you when he cannot win with logics or facts he acts like a spoiled child. Lumps gamers together and calls us amusing names and/or makes up racial slang but it is obviously still a win for him.
He is always winning until he is losing then he just tends to quit. He has yet to lose a court case for example as he submits a vacancy request and the charage(s) are dismissed and case closed. Most would tend to think of this as cowardly but there is a old saw along the lines of "He who runs aways lives to fight another day"
The gods alone know the ends of his ego.
This statement made me laugh:
"When hypocrites like Hal Halpin deal with that, then they can forget about me. I will be a man without a mission. Until then, I’m going to kick this industry’s butt from New Mexico to Alabama to Philadelphia to New York to Connecticut where Hal pretends to care about other people’s children that he pushes adult games to."
If by kick the industry's butt you mean to create unconstitutional laws, file numerous lawsuits and just make an ass of yourself then by all means continue to kick our butts. The rest of us will laugh as your lawsuits are dismissed - your laws you draft voted ruled unconstitutional and most important your antics provide us with entertainment.
We here in this community have attempted dialog with you - however you seem to believe that we are all children incapable of adult conversation. Several of us have asked for your sources which you claim prove that playing video games causes agressive behavior. We ask for these sources so that we can read the information for ourselves and learn about your side of the issue. However you refuse to provide this information - why is that?
The video game industry is not responsible, the retail industry is not responsible and least of all the government is not responsible for raising anyone's children. It is your job as a parent to raise your child as you see fit. If you do not want your child to purchase a M rated game - then it is your responsibility as an adult and parent to prevent your child from buying that game. The lables on the box are present for you the consumer to make an educated decision and decide if you feel its appropriate for your child to by the game.
Retailers as far as I am concered are going above and beyond what is required of them in trying to restrict a VOLUNTARY rating classification. It is not the job of EB Games, Gamestop, Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City the ESRB, the Video Game Industry or any other party to raise a child - it is the sole responsiblity of the parent who created that child. Marketing companies may appear to target children by creating ads that are appealing to children so that children will want to buy a product. That is all fine and dandy however it is up to the Parents raising that child to actually purchase said product. As the parent it is your sole responsiblity to determine if that product is appropriate for your child.
The Video game industry is a business - and like any other business in a capitolistic environment they are there to make money. They will create games and content that you may not agree with - however they want to sell as much of that video game as they can. They will create ads, appealing commercials, oppinion polls and any number of things that you may hate - however they have every right to do so - thats the nature of the capitolist market. It is your choice as a consumer to buy the product or not. It is not the responsibility of the maker of a form of entertainment to police who consumes that entertainment.
Some video games are made for adults - these video games are reviewed and labelled as such by an independant body - the ESRB - and as a result the game receives a content lable which advises consumers to be aware of what content is included in the game. It is now out of the hands of the video game industry - they have done their jobs - they have done everything that they could to make consumers aware that the game is not meant for everyone. Retailers now have the lables clearly marked on all video games explaining the content - and there are signs everywhere in the store - now let me make this clear because this is where you get confused - Stores have attempted to limit this adult content from getting into the hands of children by having a voluntary compliance policy to enforce these ratings. Stores are attempting to do the job that parents should be doing in the first place.
Is it perfect? NO
Do kids still get these games? YES
Is that the fault of the video game industry or the retailer? NO
Who is to blame for a child getting a mature rated video game? THE PARENT - it is their responsibility to find out what their child is going to spend 50+ dollars on - it is their responsiblity to determine if that is something they want their children to have.
In closing Mr. Thompson - would just like to say - please if you want to help the children as you so claim - then focus your efforts on making parents aware of the VOLUNTARY rating system in place and make sure that parents are taking an ACTIVE part in raising their children. Do not blame anyone other than the parents when little innocent 14 year old Tommy purchases a video game that is M rated. Do not sue Best Buy for selling the game to the child - how about you sue the parents for giving their child the 50+ bucks no questions asked to go and buy whatever they wanted???
I have no idea what he considers a win.He's sorta like the black knight from "Monty Phython and the Holy Grail" .The quote "Tis just a flesh wound", has always reminded me of Jack Thompson.
Don't forget the part when he's on the ground, limbless, going:
"All right, we'll call it a draw. Oh, i see! Running away, eh?! You yellow bastard, come back here and take what's coming to you!! I'LL BITE YOUR LEGS OFF!!!"
Heres a good question, where Jack Thompson and the Black Knight seperated at birth?
LOL
You have a point. Come back here and I'll bite your ankles off.
Guess I am saying that JBT is a bit more intelligent then the Black Knight in that he knows when to throw in the towel. That and he does seem to pick his fights.
No hissing/booing please I will explain.
This website and we the posting types cannot do much to him in reality, he knows this so he mocks us. The courts however are a threat to him so he tries to wheel and deal, then dazzle and delay, then tries to wiggles his way out then finally fold his hand and quit.
Guess that only proves he is not worthy of being in a Monty Python movies... well unless he was catapult fodder.
Jack thompson should be a bankrupt street bum right now. Had the industry had real Leadership, like the kind hal is talking about, Jack would have spent his life fighting slander lawsuits left and right.
Ignoring jack was a HUGE mistake, as I've said for YEARS!
If the industry had been smart, they would have done everything in there power to keep the media honest and make sure he was never put on the air without counter point.
It's good to see hal saying what needed to be said YEARS ago.
Now lets hope his words are followed by action from the industry.
Just as a suggestion...
I used to work as a substitute teacher and I had a little boy in a kindergarten class once who liked to bolt outside during class and start playing on the playground. What I was instructed to do was call the office, and about 5 minutes later someone would show up to escort the little boy back inside. Well of course this little boy kept doing it. From his POV, he got 5 minutes of free play with no repercussions each time he did it.
Jack's supposed to be banned, yet he keeps sneaking back and posting. All that happens is the account is banned. The account was disposable anyway. No skin off Jack's soon to be disbarred nose.
What I would consider doing, especially since there is a full time moderator here now, is go ahead and delete any comments he might make as well on sight, so that he ultimately gains nothing. It might take away some of his motivation for keeping coming back here.
Just a suggestion, at any rate.
The video game industry has spent literally millions of dollars attacking me personally and trying to get me disbarred. The fiction peddled here by Hal Halpin that the industry has ignored me is rebutted by going to google, putting in my name, and coming up with literally tens of thousands of references to me at industry sites decrying my efforts.
Define "Industry Sites". Your grasp on the concept seems to be shaky - for example, this site here you claim to be an "Industry Shill", so you might think it to be an industry site... GP is NOT an industry site. Nor is Kotaku. Nor are the thousands of people's personal websites. You seem to also be confusing the Video Game Industry with the ECA, which is a watchdog group for the industry. Get this straight, please - we've said it hundreds of times before, and yet you still insist on lying about it here.
The reason Senator Clinton and others keep coming to you is because you've made yourself a public figure in the debate through creative lies and distortions of the truth. (and yes, I can back that up - you're a liar, Jack, and we've got the quotes recorded along with DIRECT REFUTATIONAL EVIDENCE to prove it). As for the games being sold to children, it's really little different from children going to see R rated movies - it's a voluntary ratings system, and until you can change the constitution to get rid of that pesky "equal protection" part, the ESRB is the best you'll ever get, and it is comparably successful to the MPAA ratings system.
The industry and retailers are two seperate entities. It's the retailers who are doing the majority of inappropriate selling. Websites using credit cards as age verification are just fine, according to the US government. None of this would make a difference, however, if parents didn't use game consoles as nannies.
60% of the American public isn't that familiar with the Constitution, then. "Equal Protection". The industry has a constitutional right to sell it's product to ANYONE, so long as it is not pornographic (and remember: violence is NOT porn!). They CHOSE to regulate themselves, and enjoy roughly the same success rate as other similar media. Again, I say it wouldn't be a problem if parents were involved - catching your kid playing age-inappropriate games is a lot easier than catching him sneaking into movies - just pop into his room now and then to see what he's up to. It's called good parenting, and it works.
I've no idea what you're talking about. Mature rated means it is not suitable for children. End of story. The industry backs this. Several congressmen have backed this recently... what in the world are you referring to? CONTEXT man, we need CONTEXT.
I've yet to see you kick any industry butt... you wind up, you make the kick, but at best you've scored glancing blows, and you usually end up overbalancing and falling flat on your ass. That is to say, your laws have all failed, your lawsuits have all failed, and you're facing disbarrment for your ethical violations... how is this kicking butt?
You haven't been trying to stop the industry from selling their product to kids(ignoring that the industry itself does not sell the games, the RETAIL industry does) you have been trying to prevent them from selling games AT ALL.
Did you call for compromises? NO. Did you call for a campaign to educate parents about the rating system? NO. Did you try to compromise? No.
What you have done was insult games, gamers, game industry workers, and the industry at a whole, have tried to sue the industry multiple times for things they had no part in(and failed just as many times) and, instead of trying to prevent sale to children, you're trying to prevent any sale of any game you don't like to anyone.
I'll repeat that.
It's not the selling yo children you seem to have a problem with, it's that they're selling these games at all, and restricting one media format over any other, and one that has been recognized, MULTIPLE TIMES, as art, which makes a good portion of it free speech.
SO no, you don't give a shit about the children, this is about forcing your views on others by preventing anyone from having these games ever.
Are you comparing Jack Thompson to a little kid? thats a good one. Jack thompson the Little Black Knight Kid.
Of course he is. He's pretty much the only person on this site that acts that way. Most everyone else here is actually mature enough to talk in a coherant manner without resorting to "I was on TV" and infantile namecalling to justify their arguments.
Thompson will never go away, even after his eventual disbarment he will just turn into a louder spokesman. It also doesn't matter if he lies or not, because people in the media aren't interested in the truth, they're interested in what raises ratings. Thompson is conflict, conflict is good ratings. It's the same reason they showed the disgusting videos of Cho after the VT shootings.
What we can do is each of us can correct Thompson's lies whenever we see them. Speak to your friends, family, loved ones, and ANYONE you know who purchases games, especially those games for kids. DON'T LIE. Be honest, encourage parents to follow the ESRB guidelines, and get the real info out there. If parents are informed, Thompsons messages won't matter.
At least in this case, reading this thread and jack's comments is particularly amusing because my Ipod is currently playing Carly Simon, "You're so vain."
Since you seem to think you are welcome here in Connecticut you may want to know of two things, since, well, you're not welcome here. Governor Rell has told me personally at our town's bicentennial that you are someone she will absolutely refuse to work with after I showed her a few specific quotes of yours and your elitest,
"as pure as the driven snow" attitude.
The other thing you should know is that Irecently was able to speak to Senater Lieberman. I asked him if he still communicates with you, to which he told me, and I am quoting: "he emails me constantly, and I just delete them". When I mentioned your several attacks on Hal and other citizens of Connecticut, the people he represents, he told me, and again I'm quoting here: "his ties with me will be severed effective immediately".
So thanks for all your comments here, Jack. Noone can shoot themselves in the foot like you do.
Now please leave this site since you have been BANNED again. Over 60 times now in fact. This can't look good for your cause.
THOMPSON IS TRYING TO GET US TO UNDERESTIMATE HIM.
you called me crazy now who's crazy now *maniacal laugh*
Seriously now thompson is on trial for ethics and I think the outcome should determine our course of actions.
a. He is disbarred
we celebrate and ignore thompson who would now be defeated
b. He is let completely off the hook
If this happens then that means that we have completely underestimated Thompson and we should take him seriously.
c. Anything betweeen a. and b. (sanctions, other discipline, an aggrement etc.)
We should expect thompson to lay low for a while then come back in force. We should be prepared.
Oh and the whole ignore thompson theory wasn't supposed to be an end-all solution. The original one was that if we ignore thompson's trolling posts and all his empty threats and whatnot thompson (the forum troll) will go away. However this will NEVER work with thompson the anti-game troll.
Right. I'm not American, so I'm not going to get into the rights and wrongs of the first amendment position, which is the whole crux of the debate. Stop selling mature rated games to teenagers.
I am however British, where similar laws to those suggested apply. So I can tell you how it works here.
Nothing is any different. Children still regularly get access to mature rated content. This is down to two things, parents and ignorance. Ignorance that some shops will still sell to underage people of questionable age. 11 year olds in the UK will never get hold of GTA, Halo, Bioshock and their ilk by purchasing in a shop, but 15, 16 or 17 year olds might. Shops if discovered to have breached the laws can get fined, and people will get sacked, but it never ever stops that kind of "they look old enough" kind of purchasing happening.
Some shops operate ID no matter what age policies, or ID if you look under 25 policies, but these introduce resentment and regularly people legally allowed to purchase items being refused ridiculously.
I work at a Primary School (ages 3 - 11) in the UK, and I regularly hear children talking about GTA, Halo and Bioshock. These children could never buy this content on their own, so it comes down to the family unit allowing children to access these games with their mature content.
How do children of this age in particular get this media? Through their parents. Whether it is because they don't care what media their child consumes, because they believe their child is mature enough to handle it in the case of the older teens, or its because they are simply ignorant to the content is up to discussion.
What isn't up to discussion however in this country, and is blatantly obvious to most in this country, is that the primary responsibility for controlling what content the child consumes is with the parents. The best thing you can do is properly educate the parents on the ratings system, and how to use it correctly. Its as simple as that. You don't need the restrictive laws. We have those and children still get the games you want to restrict with legislation. You need education for the parents to be able to use the content restriction systems built into these new generation of consoles, and to understand the ratings when purchasing games for children.
In the USA, the ratings are are much clearer than in the UK, where we have both PEGI and BBFC ratings on the box.
We have the ratings, we have the laws, and nothing changes one bit.
You only have the ratings, you don't need the laws, you need the parents to understand, as do we.
When you say "This is fascinating revisionist history from Mr. Halpin. Here are the facts not the fancy" would you have been talking about this quote for example:
Because I thought that was completely fanciful as well!
"When hypocrites like Hal Halpin deal with that, then they can forget about me. I will be a man without a mission. Until then, I’m going to kick this industry’s butt from New Mexico to Alabama to Philadelphia to New York to Connecticut where Hal pretends to care about other people’s children that he pushes adult games to."
Well, if you are going after adult games, you should add Bicycle playing cards to your list, as children can easily play Strip Poker with them which is not only gambling, but promoting sex to children. In fact most decks come with a card that explains all the possible hands you can get in poker.
It's all a conspiracy Jack-O, the whole world is trying to sell smute to juveniles and you are the only persons that can stop them! Quick, to the Whiner-mobile!
[/end sarcasm]
Seems he's just as hateful as ever though, so I wish him a Merry Christmas in the face of his "Bah humbug".
So, JT, you say that companies like Take Two 'directly sells M rated games to minors'.
On a whim I went to Take 2's web site, then to their store to pre-order GTA VI. Now, after I started the order process I got this message:
Important Notice: Some items for sale on this website are not yet rated or are intended for mature audiences. You must be 17 or older to purchase items rated RP or M. By ordering such items, you are certifying that you are at least 17 years of age.
Combined with the fact that you need a credit card to order (another form of age verification, btw) it seems like they are operating within the law. Now, if you can give us all P-R-O-O-F (big word for you, I know) that someone under 17 can purchase this game, without comitting a crime in the process, like, oh, stealing their parent's credit card, then you are right. Otherwise, go back to your family, enjoy the holidays, tighten your cilice, and act like a grown up for a change.
Thanks for posting. I don't think I've ever head the english point of view expressed. I find it interesting, especially in light of the Manhunt2 thing, we get allot of either "it's censorship/blaspemy!" or the standard "hey, Jack's right, we should be more like the english!"
There are probably other international posters here (GP). Maybe I've just never noticed. Maybe it's just my frame of mind, but I'm glad to hear an average gamer's opinion from (how did we used to put it?) "the other side of the pond".
Umm, Jack, I hate to break it to you, but this is a constitutional republic, not a democracy. It doesn't matter if 99.999% of the people want it; unconstitutional is still unconstitutional. Don't like it? Either get an amendment, or go campaign for Hillary!™ and hope she packs SCOTUS with big-government, liberal jurists who think the Constitution is a "living document."
Maybe she'll even nominate your old pal Janet Reno. Which would be quite fitting since you sound more and more like Reno every day, now that I think of it..
Even so, wouldn't a direct sale kinda be, like, a Take Two representative showing up at your house and then making a sale to make it a direct sale?
I havent mentioned Lorne attitude at the VGXPO debate in my past posts did I.Don't put words in my mouth.I just finished reading the forementioned Wired.com story you mentioned.
The 6th and 8th paragraphs where pretty interesting.People being checked at the door looking for cameras, I think not.I found this little gem on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnkJhLGoPHs
Now your thinking, who had the gall to sneak a camera in.Take a look to the right of the video.Yup, it was gamepolitics.
Wow, it looks like you and N'Gai was having a pretty good conversation.What where you two talking about?Where you guys talking about the arguement you had a few days eariler on Headline News?Oh wait, you havent really talked much about that face-off a couple of days before VGXPO.
You and N'Gai where on "Prime News with Erica Hill" in the "Get to the Point with Mike Galanos" segment talking about Manhunt 2.It got pretty heated did'nt Jack.After N'Gai tore you statistics to shreds, you had your trademark hissy fit.
But something dident sit right with me about that debate, you did not hype up your television appearance at all. Whenever you are about to go on TV to talk about video games, you just about tell everybody. I'm surprised that you don't talk about that debate at all, even into today.A debate with the moderator of a much larger debate that will take place a few days later would be a pretty big story in the gaming world, but why hasent it.
Something stinks about the Moral Combat debate, but I havent put the finger on what that is.Did Jack Thompson debate N'Gai on Headline News to have something to hold against N'Gai in the Moral Combat debate?Did N'Gai go easy on Jack because of the Headline News debate? Something stinks and you know what it is Jack.
Man, when even Joe Liberman won't have anything to do with you, you know you're in deep shit.
You're living in denial, Jack! Wake up and smell the coffee! You've lost!
He's also never talks about his G4 appearance. You'd think he considered it "treading into the lion's den" or something.
However, then you are very quickly stumbling towards mass censorship of all games, much like the banning of western music in Iran.
Certain times, some companies can take it too far. Controversy for controversy's sake is not ok, when you don't have anything to back it up... Gameplay, story, narratives, compelling protagonists... This was Manhunt's downfall for me primarily.
Bravo, I agree wholeheartedly with all the points you've made in this thread.
Why do you keep saying this?
Everyone isn’t mad at you about trying to keep games out of the hands of kids. They’re irked by the fact that you’re suing the game companies when the retailers are clearly at fault and also at the sight of you outright lying about certain events being tied to games. That Virginia Tech shooting for instance… your evidence to implicate games seemed a bit farfetched and yet you believed it was solid proof.
Also, you keep saying you’re simply trying to keep games out of the hands of kids but you’ve actually tried getting some games banned completely. Seriously, you’re taking the choice away from the adults by attempting a stunt like that and that is what the companies are defending against. Yet, here you are again, twisting it in such a way so as to make it sound as if the companies are saying they have a constitutional right to sell to kids... As someone who seems to believe himself a paragon, isn’t it a bit odd to twist things and lie at times just to prove your point?
By the way, I know this is a little off topic but…
When I was around eleven and under, I played Heretic, Doom, Duke Nukem 3D, Phantasmagoria as well as a few other choice adult games. And not only that but I also pretty much watched most of the good 18+ movies as well as read plenty of adult books, gory and otherwise. I only started on those sorts of books around fifteen though.
Furthermore, more recently I’ve played GTA (The whole series), Diablo (The entire series), Bioshock, Manhunt 1 & 2, The Witcher, Postal (Both of them), etc. Which are all pretty intense compared to counter-strike (Another game you have blamed for violence).
According to you, this should have not only made me detached but practically blood thirsty and perhaps some sort of heathen.
Yet, today, I’m passive more often than not and agnostic when concerning God; and this is mostly just because I like to keep an open mind. Also, I’ve had plenty of access to guns but I must admit that I couldn’t even imagine firing one at a living creature, never mind a human. Additionally, I’m strongly against the death penalty.
I've even done quite a bit of volunteer work for not only orphans but the poor as well. And I also used to donate whenever I could - unfortunately though, that last one has become more difficult with all the fraudsters running around in my country.