New York Guv's Game Scare Presentation Cites Hoax Site as "Resource"
New York Guv's Game Scare Presentation Cites Hoax Site as "Resource"
December 19, 2007
In New York, efforts to legislate video game sales have bogged down in the wake of bitter political infighting between Gov. Eliot Spitzer (D) and State Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno (R).
While the legislative effort remains stalled, the New York Department of Criminal Justice (!) has produced a 20-minute slide show which, in addition to offering some good advice to parents, dredges up a number of sensationalized stories, presents at least one outright fallacy, and cites a well-known Internet hoax site as a parental resource.
As reported by the Staten Island Advance, Gov. Spitzer unveiled Video Games and Children: Virtual Playground vs. Danger Zone yesterday, accompanied by representatives from the state's Division of Criminal Justice Services (DCJS). Said Spitzer of the 20-minute presentation:
Protecting our children from violent video games that contain adult themes is a key priority for my administration. I commend the staff of the DCJS and Commissioner Denise O'Donnell for taking a leadership role in this effort by reaching out to parents and educators to engage them in this important dialogue. This presentation gives parents and educators the information they need to make smart decisions about the games their children play.
While the presentation offers some wothwhile - if standard - advice about ratings and other parental issues, it quickly devolves into sensationalism. V-Tech Rampage, for example, gets prominent mention early in the presentation. For those who may not recall that sorry episode, V-Tech Rampage was a crude, non-commercial game created and posted online by an apparently troubled young man from Australia who gained his 15 minutes of fame by exploiting the Virginia Tech massacre. What does it have to do with parents making video game choices for their children?
The presentation also includes clips from a well-known Australian TV video of a supposed teenage World of Warcraft addict. There is also an ominous mention of an unnamed 13-year-old Chinese lad who is said to have thrown himself from the roof of a building in an effort to join his video game heroes.
We were also troubled by the somewhat random selection of games presented as bad examples. For instance, the video makes much of Soldier of Fortune's realistic body damage model. SoF, however, was released seven years ago. Relevance, please?
The presentation also mentions that Virginia Tech killer Seung Hui Cho was reportedly a player of Counter-strike. However, the Virginia Tech Review Panel's report clearly states that no such evidence was found. The only game mentioned by the blue ribbon panel in relation to Cho is Sonic the Hedgehog.
First-person shooters are referred to as "killographic" games. Grand Theft Auto San Andreas is misstated as "Grand Theft San Andreas." How does one botch what is probably - thanks to Hot Coffee - the most infamous game title of all time?
And, as the presentation ends, a resource page lists Mothers Against Videogame Addiction and Violence as one of several places where parents can go for additional information.
Oops!
MAVAV is a well-documented hoax site, created, ironically, by a student from a New York City design school.
In the end, poor research makes Gov. Spitzer's well-intentioned video look amateurish and out of touch.
UPDATE: Albany's WNYT-13 has a report on the release of the New York video.
Comments
what worries me is that people will actually take it seriously.
Enough said...
I just knew it was a matter of time before a hoax website is cited as a source by a politician. It really shows how little these guys know about video games.
MAVAV has been proven to be a hoax. The Creator himself admitted it. The fact that it DOESN'T look like a spoof site mens that the creator has suceeded, since his assignment was to make a believable website.
http://www.ny.gov/governor/press/1218071.html
This video has been created by the Missing and Exploited Children Clearinghouse (MECC) from the New York State Division of Criminal Justices Services.
And this also shows just how out of touch these guys are with whats going on in the world around them (or maybe they just like it like that...):
"The presentation also mentions that Virginia Tech killer Seung Hui Cho was reportedly a player of Counter-strike. "
Instant fail. I agree that we really need to take this faulty report to the media.
are you daft?
http://www.mavav.org/2007/01/02/video_game_violence_makes
_teens_aggressive.php
Go look at that article. Look at the brain scans, and tell me its not a hoax. Hell scroll down the front page and tell me its not a hoax.
It is highly recommend that a teens bedroom be absent of all forms of electronic devices: personal computers, printers, video game console systems, television sets, cellular telephones, clock-radios, battery recharger’s, and calculators.
Calculators?
That's what I get for writing LOOOOOOONG posts. :)
Yours wasn't there when I was writing mine.
Ah well.
:)
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
Good jib ! But it's not Andrew Lanza's video : it's Eliot Spitzer's video. Or, more precisely, a video created by the Missing and Exploited Children Clearinghouse (MECC) depending from his Division of Criminal Justices Services (DCJS).
Sorry, I copy/pasted the wrong name. Ah well, the message is still the same.
Ah yes, nothing like our media system to keep spinning lies in the hopes that people will accept them as fact.
Oh and the mother against videogame addiction and violence is priceless they should have cited cracked and the onion while they were at it.
The Staten ISland Advance moderates all comments before posting them. That is probably why you missed it.
I went to the link you posted and looked at the comments and unless they are part of the hoax, we have bigger problems then we thought.
Seriously, we're paying tax money to see garbage like this?
Yeah, don't you know you can turn the calc upside down and spell out words like "hell"? Don't want our kids doing that do we?
In a post to another story, another GP poster said that politicians should take an exam on an issue in order to legislate in favor of the thing or against it (I don't know exactly who said that). I fully agree with the idea.
Toll has a thing about wanting to license Parents. I say license politicians too. You have to have one to be a lawyer and doctor. Why not a politician?
Nightwng2000
NW2K Software
He's become a full-blown sputz(er) since elected into office. He's pandering left and right, abusing his office powers for political gain and just being a general dickwad.
Good thing elected officials have terms. I'm just hoping he doesn't pull a few pork projects over the eyes of New York State voters just before the next election.
Do not confused ignorance with malice. These people have no understanding of games whatsoever. That's why they're trying to regulate them. Games scare the crap out of them because of their meteoric rise in popularity. A phenomenon that they we not a part of. Instead of trying to learn about them, "older" people fight them tooth and nail hoping to regain control.
Those who HAVE taken the time to learn about them properly recommend following the ESRB ratings and such (as a few politicians have started to do). But those who haven't are now FURTHER being left in the dust by their colleagues and constituents.
"In the end, poor research makes Gov. Spitzer’s well-intentioned video look amateurish and out of touch."
Absolutely, because the creators of the video ARE out of touch. They are sadly just doing what politicians do. Instead of trying something new (i.e. learning and educating), they just do the wrong thing harder.
You don't need a license to be come a reporter either, at least where I come from. Then again, we have enough professionals with sound judgement who are quick to hunt down any hack journalism.
We police our own - I don't see that happening as much among politicians.
@vellocet
"They are sadly just doing what politicians do. Instead of trying something new (i.e. learning and educating), they just do the wrong thing harder."
I don't know why, but I keep thinking of a fly that continously slams itself into a glass window in a futile effor to get to the other side.
I actually think it's the other way around. Probably for people like JT as well.
They think they are right (even though their position is based purely on ignorant "belief" about something they know nothing about). Then they're proven wrong (because they have no idea what they're talking about). They get angry because they're wrong, and maliciously strike back because there's no possible way that their "belief" could be wrong regardless of what the facts are.
Please don't take any of this as an attack on religion or whatever, it's more of an attack on close mindedness and rigidity of thought.
That fly thing is a perfect analogy. It seems to be human nature as well though (I know I've been guilty of it too). We are so certain that the way we are approaching things is correct that even if it's not working we just do the same thing harder.
It's like trying to bang your head against the wall to get through it. If you bang hard enough you just might get through, a lot worse for wear. But sometimes if you step back, there just might be a door three feet down.
Sadly, for politicians, banging your head against the wall is all about using money (the taxpayers) and using underhanded tactics. Even more sadly, do these hard enough and you often achieve what you want regardless (especially if corporations and such are financing you as well).
Would you like to be arrested for contributing to the deliquency of a minor for buying GTA Vice city for your 17 year old kid? Or would you like to see the new sales clerk get arrested for allowing you to purchase the video game for your child?
It's too easy to prey on a parents desire to protect their children from harm to push your own political agenda. Look at Hillary Clinton & Joe Leiberman.
But time after time these lawsuits, and attempts at regulation are shot down. It's good to know that people aren't as stupid as politicians would like to think. The politicians on the other hand....well they are pretty stupid.
Jesus F***ing Christ! I haven't seen a hit job like that even in the attack ads of politicians.
This thing is completely ridiculous.
I really don't know if I should laugh or cry. It's just incredible.
I think I am going to go the closest police station now and give myself in. I'm a gamer, after all, and therefore a danger to society at large. Governor Spitzer says so.
Thanks to tardbags like these, I am quickly learning that when our machine overlords finally arrive just like them sci-fi movies promise, it will be a day for celebration. Praise Xorklax.
A lot of us would like to believe the fantasy that an elected official, at whatever level, is a person who is somewhat intelligent, self-aware, and responsible, but this is typically not the case. Government is no different than any other scenario where a collection of people is concerned, be it another industry, such as retail, or even the high school lunch room. You are always going to have your diva, gossiper, sycophant, slacker, scoundrel, whore, and the random, occasional do-gooder...
(Spitzer is probably the guy who "tattled" on another student in order to gain favor with the faculty. Subsequently, he probably had cookies thrown at his head in the cafeteria.)
A such, most of these people find themselves quagmired in finding the happy medium between enforcing a personal agenda and satisfying his or her constituents/special interests. And since something like the "War On Drugs" - being a battle against illegal (read "non-rule following") adversaries - is too difficult to manage, it becomes much simpler - albeit lazier - to go after the easy targets like game publishers, tobacco companies, record producers, and so on. An established, legal, entity of commerce can't just jump in a fast-moving boat and elude coast guard patrols - it has to endure this constant assault that's weakly disguised as social concern...
There are those of us who are proactive and self-aware. We read information provided by sites such as this one. We do research before making consumer decisions. We are responsible about our children's upbringing and we maintain some modicum of confidence regarding our decisions about what we do and what we are exposed to. But, unfortunately, we are outnumbered by those who are dim-witted enough to believe the very first thing they read on a particular issue - and are likewise easily deluded by "statistical skullduggery."
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go play some Call Of Duty 4 while I listen to Judas Priest and eat something that's high in carbs.
Yorick nice to see another western New yorker
Very well stated, I must say. ^_^
How can they ignore the Virginia Tech review board’s findings? If you're going to cite an event, it would be wise to research what actually happened.
While MAVAV is a great hoax, I didn't think it would be viewed as real by anyone who actually looked at it. I though politicians hired people smarter than them to look into this kind of thing.
I don't care if this was ignorance or malicious intent, neither is an excuse, merely an explanation. I hope Gov. Spitzer's term is nearly up. If he could screw up a Public Service Announcement, I'm afraid what he could do with something important.
I want to play it :D ... As far as I know it's purely fiction. There is no "difficult to kill prostitute" nor "Police man wearing body armor so you can't shoot him". And I have not yet to see a game where you can pour gasoline on someone. In ANY game.
Postal 2
I, uh, may have doused a whole marching band in gasoline once and tossed a match. I may have also used gas to set fires @ the exits in a dance club then fired a gun over the heads of the dancers, sparking a panic flight out of the building.
I'm astounded at how stupid people can be >_>.
.........
Oh FFs
"Protecting our children from violent video games that contain adult themes is a key priority for my administration."
and how is he planning on micromanaging 1 million+ households? does he plan on doing the same thing for movies,TV,books, magazines, comic books and all forms of media? maybe he can create a total media blackout with his power. maybe everything should be approved by the government before it can be published. maybe we can raise taxes to cover this totalitarian government... or maybe parents can take responsibility for their own children. i'm so glad i vote for myself every year so i'm not responsible for electing these jackasses.
Your post on the Staten Island article finally went through. It was very well thought out and informative. I am ashamed. :( Mine was rushed this morning as I was getting ready for work. But at least I got the link here.
Thanks for the great posts. I really enjoy them.
Up there asses like most idiots like them ;) .
It is worth noting that Thrill Kill was never released.
I don't know the exact number, but it's somewhere in the 30s.
The average age of a game buyer was somewhere in mid 40s, if I remember correctly.
It's 33 years old.
@Yorick and JJmug
Nice to see fellow western new yorkers here too.
Ah... I knew there was a reason I never played it.
See people? That's what you do when you don't like a game. YOU DON'T PLAY IT. If you don't want your kids playing it... DON'T BUY IT FOR THEM and DON'T GIVE THEM THE MONEY TO BUY IT.
And if they're still playing it under your noses... become a better parent - that's YOUR job, not the government's.
That makes too much sense and it takes actually effort.
Here you go:
http://www.theesa.com/facts/top_10_facts.php
Here is another great one to look at:
http://www.esrb.org/about/categories.jsp
Here is the full report from the ESA. I linked the overview before:
http://www.theesa.com/archives/files/Essential%20Facts%202006.pdf
If you're going to dispute SoF's relevance due to the game's 2000 release date, why not reference the Death Race 2000's relevance? Or Mortal Kombat II's relevance? Those are much older games than Soldier of Fortune...
Because the slideshow (as misinformed as it was in most instances) was showing a timeline of the evolution of violent games, and SoF being a VERY violent game for it's time, was completely relevant to the topic being discussed.
And while the video certainly had its glaring faults (sensationalism, staged interviews with "child gamers" etc) I see the overall point of it. I fail to see how the rest of you don't. The point I got from the video is that there ARE violent video games (true statement, albeit an obvious one) and there is info parents need to know in order to better regulate their children's gaming habits (also a true statement, although a lot of people are completely ignorant to that fact).
In no way did I see this as a call to ban violent video games-- just a call to parents to be more proactive in their children's lives, although the misinformation stated within is certainly detrimental when you consider what could happen when ignorant people get a hold of it...
Do some of you honestly believe there shouldn't be a regulation on games? I in no way agree with the notion of banning sex & violence in games, but it does disgust me to hear 11 year olds talk about how much they love f**king prostitutes then killing them in GTA. They aren't supposed to watch rated R movies-- they shouldn't be allowed to play rated M games. If they are doing so, it should fall on the parents' heads as well as the companies directly selling these kids access to the media (i.e. stores/ blockbuster/ whatever). Game developers should NOT be held responsible for the actions of others, nor should they be punished for the irresponsible and uneducated decisions made by some parents...
The age that separates the top half of the population from the lower half.
It is somewhere between the 18 and 49 years.
i do honestly believe there should be no regulation on games (that is not self imposed), the problem with adding a government regulation is the fact that it's blatently unconstitutional to give weight of law behind the ESRB (can't give governmental power to a private organization) and to regulate it without using the ESRB means having to actually define what violence is and is not acceptable, which leads to exceedingly vague language that can result in just about any game being deemed too violent depending on how you look at it
should the later (which is the most likely to happen as i doubt they are going to change the constitution for this) the chilling effect on the gaming industry would be horrendous, in the sense that developers would be so afraid of being taken to court over cartoon violence that many games would end up being horribly self censured to the point of being ridiculous
i agree that 11 year olds should not be playing GTA, but that is a decision that is up to each individual parent, and the fact that a child could go into a store and possibly buy the game (assuming he manages to get a ride to get down there and has the $50-$60 burning a hole in his pocket) the doesn't mean that the parent is incapable of stoping him from playing the game, as the parents can always turn off the console and take the game away if they don't approve of the content
Using fear to "educate" is not a valid tactic and shouldn't be encouraged, no matter how long and hard people want to argue that the end justifies the means. Telling people (in so many words) that allowing your children to play videogames makes them fat, violent, foul-mouthed killers is not responsible education. Misinforming the public (here is a respectable source Web site, that horrible Cho person played these games, etc.) to press your point is not acceptable. There may indeed be some good information and advice mixed in with the sensationalism, but if the good information and advice IS good information and advice, why the sensationalism and misinformation? Why couldn't they have produced thoughtful, well-informed pieces that stay away from the hate and simply do what they claim to- educate? You (or at least, I) can't let something like this go simply because there are some good points along with the bad. Is it ok to nuke a neighborhood because there was one serial killer living there? Politicians, government agencies and the like MUST be pushed to provide accurate, fair, and reasonable information to the public. Not doing so is tantamount to giving our permission to feed us garbage without restraint.
That is something that always seems to be missing. My guess is that it is in the high 30s to the low 40s.
@ Demon
I don't think anyone is really arguing against the message of the video, just the presentation.
You could tell people to stop smoking because tests have shown an increased risk of getting lung cancer. Or you could tell people to stop smoking because if you don't aliens are going to abduct you and eat you as a jerky treat.
Which is the better presentation to get the message of stop smoking out there? Which one is more believable?
What we are getting at is that the governor regardless of his noble intention is basically enciting panic in the populous, when all he has to do is tell people there are ratings on the games and to read and follow them.
I completely agree-- my thoughts on regulation are more in line with film regulations-- thus my comparison to rated R films. I would've elaborated more, but my post was long enough already :)
@Saint13:
Once again, I whole-heartedly agree with you. The misinformation is absolutely unacceptable, especially on such an important topic. I could have elaborated more, but after reading some of this article's comments, I felt that people were looking at the video as a call to ban violent games and only make educational ones. Sorry I was misleading in my previous post.
you're right, on a whole, people weren't looking at it as such. I did read a couple comments to that effect, though, so I felt the need to mention it. Once again, sorry I was misleading :(
I couldn't help but laugh when I heard the resources section though. I never heard of that site before myself, but it is either very believable, or people are just stupid.
I'm confident that the WoW interview was fake, there is no way that could be true.
Also, why don't they talk about more um, ya know, RECENT games. MKII? Thrill Kill (never even released)?? Soldier of fortune 1??? Bully is already over a year old too, ya know. And San Andreas isn't an AO game in itself, only the pre-hot coffee ones are.
Overall, an unprofessional and poorly researched piece of garbage. Can I have my 20 minutes back, please???????
I want that time back so I can go play a "killographic" game instead.
*In a dumb, stiff voice like in the presentation*
For example:Doom
Wolfenstein 3d
Soldier of fortune
*breaks free*
Oh crap, its gotten into my head. Save yourselves!!! Don't watch this!!!
I'm with you in hoping (fervently) that those comics on MAVAV are part of the hoax, casue if not, some games are as bad as these ignorant politicians =S
Also could you post a link to the Staten Island Advance article thingy. I had a quick look but I couldn't find it.
Its up there. Third Paragraph first line. Hard to miss.
1. holy crap so many steriotypes I almost cried
2. it was so dramatic (see the first part where the kid was talking about the video game)
2b. wow I wonder what game that was? To me it didn't even sound Grand Theft Auto it sounded more like some that would be titled MEGA HELL DEATH CHALLENGE PART ! : DISCRIMINATE AND DESTROY!!!1!!!
3. After a while I lost count of how many lies I heard in this video too. It was just horrible.
Also after watching I got some thoughts like "what I just watched,......was this some kinda parody or serious? O_O; " but the part at the end did make me laugh a bit.
*turns red* opps, my bad *headdesk*
Between the two of you the article actually comes of as balanced now.
well pick up the nearest one and type in '80085'. See? Even calculators promote pornography!
Though on a more serious note, I'm still trying to figure out how he trained to kill on Sonic the Hedgehog. Unless they meant Shadow the Hedgehog, but then that wasn't a very good game.
I use to be against swearing, at least explicitly, on here but I just can't take it anymore. If this was 150 years ago they'd be taken out into the streets and lynched by angry mobs for their incompetence. Or at least forced from office.
Goddamn this country has gotten soft. Especially over the last 40-50 years.
/facepalm, smacking head into his desk repeatedly.
What the crap was that video at the end? That was the absolute worst thing I ever saw.
If the industry was smart they would demand a national public apology right now and threaten a massive lawsuit if he didn't comply.
You all think i'm an extremeist. Guess what, looks like Spitzer proved me right!
As a side note did any notice that when discussing the ESRB ratings that they put the E rating on the same slide as the M rating?
@ EZK
Yeah what the hell was that at the end. Something to demonstrate addiction? Really you think mentioning an ill minded person killing themselves to 'join' their videogame heroes was enough. Would any sane man do that?
"Do some of you honestly believe there shouldn’t be a regulation on games? I in no way agree with the notion of banning sex & violence in games, but it does disgust me to hear 11 year olds talk about how much they love f**king prostitutes then killing them in GTA. They aren’t supposed to watch rated R movies– they shouldn’t be allowed to play rated M games. If they are doing so, it should fall on the parents’ heads as well as the companies directly selling these kids access to the media (i.e. stores/ blockbuster/ whatever). Game developers should NOT be held responsible for the actions of others, nor should they be punished for the irresponsible and uneducated decisions made by some parents…"
I hope you realise that RIGHT NOW it is far far EASIER for a LITTLE KID to get an R rated or Unrated movie then an M rated game???
Which is the real problem with the game violence debate... Why is there one??? One would think that the focus should be on what is easier to get...
The game industry is not selling games to kids, they created the rating system of their own free will to make certain of that... Major store chains ARE so why should the debate attack the industry that is NOT responsible???? I don't see anyone blaming best buy for kids playing Manhunt 2, they blame rockstar which is ridiculous...
It would be like blaming the makers of hostel for wallmart selling an unrated edition to some kid...
"Do some of you honestly believe there shouldn’t be a regulation on games? I in no way agree with the notion of banning sex & violence in games, but it does disgust me to hear 11 year olds talk about how much they love f**king prostitutes then killing them in GTA. They aren’t supposed to watch rated R movies– they shouldn’t be allowed to play rated M games."
Yes, most uf us honestly believe that there shouldn't be a regulation on games, just as there is not a regulation on movies. You do know there is no regulation on movies right?
"I completely agree– my thoughts on regulation are more in line with film regulations"
So you also think there should be no regulation on games, as movie regulations DON'T EXIST.
i think it refers to Animatrix scene where kid leaves the matrix by throwing himself from the roof of his school (an animation, not a videogame).
Listen up people if you watched the slideshow you saw that kid was 6 yrs old...max his parent got him that game he didnt walk to bestbuy magicly make $60 and then convince a store clerk to sell it to him his mom and or dad waltzed on in and picked it up for him
oh and when they can use examples from a real game(made by the corporations their sueing) thats isnt Gta then i might give them a couple of seconds to voice their opinion before i just start laughing
Whats this? their picking on halo? thats one of tamest first person shooter out their...
notice how in their precentage groups they dont say what ages...they just say kids meaning 17 and down who wants to bet that they asked a bunch of 17yr old gamers lol
then they snap at WoW? wow has a fucking parental control feature right out in front which give you 100% control of what times they can get on...how much more do you idiots want?
favoite quote ="whats is violent? What effect does violent games have on children" .....and your the ones saying were stupid? what effect do...do! not does.
compairing video games to smoking...hmm 1 kills you and everyone around you one=easy going activity
playing video games makes you think the world we live in is dangerous and crime ridden.....uh...hm...er...it is, are you out of your minds?
and that too much screen time too much kid thing at the end was just plain mean not to us..but to fat people lol wtf? changing horses mid stream much?
well i guess thatts enough for now lol
Looks like the video has been pulled; I get a ‘Not Found’ when I try to go to the link provided…
same here
guess they did it for a good reason, eh?