Um...wow.

So... you're either pro-family or pro-videogames - there is absolutely no middle ground. Riiiiiight.

This reminds me of the whole Hollywood communist scare in the 50s.

Maybe someone should threaten that if politicians receive any form of support, financial or otherwise, from such groups as the PTC or the CSM, that they will be exposed as being opposed to the US Constitution's First Amendment and be label as Tin-Pot-Dictator-Wannabes who want to violate not only the Rights of individuals but also the Rights of Parents to make their own decisions for their own children as to what is or is not appropriate for their own children. Such organizations attempt to FORCE their own personal, religious, and/or political beliefs upon other citizens, thereby violating constitutional law, as PROVEN by the beaten state laws PROVEN to be unconstitutional.

Hey, the "moral superiority" groups want to place stigmas, get ready to have stigmas placed on THEM. Seems fair to me. I've got plenty I can condemn THEM for. So anyone associating with them should be condemned as well.

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

@ Nightwing

You and I are one in thought on this one. :)

Ironically enough, isn't this the group that deliberately and openly illegally downloaded a hacked copy of Manhunt 2, illegally and openly hacked a PSP and put images forward claiming that they were shots of an un-hacked version of Manhunt?

So the PTC can have a political presence, but videogames cannot?

When will people stop abusing the word "family"?

Repressive people are scum.

What an ignorant prick..

It is NOT the ESRBs responsibility to prevent ANYTHING! It is their responsibility to rate games.. that is all. Games are rated fairly. The ratings are clear and clearly displayed for consumers.

I got this self-proclaimed group confused with the Parent Teachers Council! I agree that any PAC is going for its own best interest. In this case, being able to sell games that people want to buy. To claim that the ESRB doesn't work to protect children is actually a lie. The facts are well known about the M-17 rating, and 17 year-olds are no longer children. The ESRB is funded by the same companies as the PAC. So you can blame this watchdog group for lying, being stupid and naive, or both.

"The [ESRB] has offered little to prevent companies like Rockstar Games from subjecting millions of children to sexually graphic material as they did with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas."

Let me guess, the FTC's 42%. Well by that logic the movie industry must be working twice as hard to sell R rated movies to children considering that its 70 something %

First, when are these people going to realize that most (male) kids 12 and up already know about violence, already think it's "cool" and/or "fun" to play violent video games, and yet are perfectly normal 12 year olds. It's not like Humans are born without any innate knowledge of survival in them. That instinct for survival can sometimes mean violence. But they know when and when not to use it. Well, if their parents help them out, which parents don't seem to be doing these days according to PTC and others. What 5 year old hasn't already had two toy cars and "wrecked" them, sound effects and all?

Second, The whole Video Game Industry is not responsible for marketing. It's mostly the retailers, then last on the line on the way to the consumer. I'd say it's more the clueless parents who buy it for their kids and then go, "oh, wow I didn't know this was so violent! I was tricked!" Do some research! Being inept with technology is not an excuse to be inept at being a parent. It's not like your job as a parent doesn't include other responsibilities, say like learning and keeping up with the times.

Third, how did the video game industry, "subject millions of children to sexually graphic material" when it was a hack that only a few hundred probably did. And a bad hack at that. And come on, have these people really even seen that scene? It's a joke!

Fourth, and final point:

Video games imitate real life. There's violence in real life, so GTA:SA mimics it, and PARODIES it. It's not the other way around. While I can't say it's impossible that a VG has influences someones violent decision, it's the exception, not the norm. Which is more likely to make you lash back: A person punching you in real life, or a video game avatar punching you on your "Wii"? Which is more likely to train you to fight back: Pressing a button repeatedly on your console, or training with a punching bag?

The whole game, and most others are poking fun at how our world works. It's a break from the real world, where you think, "Why do people do this?" In Video Game land, you go "This is so ridiculous!" That's the whole point.

People take that game (and many more) way too seriously, when it is taking real life to it's logical extremes, which don't make any sense. And it's all for entertainment! It's the same reason you go to the movies, to see stuff that's extreme, that you couldn't do in real life. That doesn't mean that everyone wants to do it in real life.

Ugh, somewhere in there I had a point.

I always get a laugh when these morons open their mouths and spew out false statements about things they have little to no understanding about.

"The video game industry continues to fight meaningful accountability for selling inappropriate material to children. The industry has been exposed repeatedly for its reprehensible behavior and now they are looking for ways to buy friends in the government…"

Once again they decide that video game companies are at fault because little Jimmy's parents bought him GTA for his birthday. I would like to see where he got his information about the companies being exposed for repeatedly reprehensible behavior. Ten to one he will only sight Hot Coffee if called on it.

I am not surprised at this new account of stupidity brought to use by the same group who had to pay the WWE a few million dollars after they spouted nothing but lies about the Corporation and it's owner Vince McMahon.

If anyone wants a good chuckle go to their website and look at their information about "The evils of video games" They state and child can go into a store and buy an AO game without a problem. Last time I checked AO games were only sold on the internet.

[...] Quelle: GamePolitics [...]

I add nothing to the debate but to say - That's pretty fucked up. And that of course it's extortion - no facts, just some completely unreasonable statement that is so far based from reality that it would be funny in any other context.

Let us all forget other contributions from the Tobacco, Alcohol, and all other things that have been proven to be harmful to children the real threat is that Bobby played a videogame not meant for his age group and his PARENTS were there to buy it for him.

I wonder when the PTC is going to release a statement complaining about the tobacco and oil lobbyists? I would've assumed that smoking is worse for kids than video games. (Then again, my mental image of the average PTC member is a guy in a top hat puffing away on a cigar whilst complaining in a haughty voice -- no, wait, that's my mental image of W. C. Fields. Damn television, influencing me to get all confused like that!)

Videogames = anti-family? That is actually more ridiculous than "virtual orgasmic rape".

Guess what? The PTC is YET ANOTHER conservative entity pushing a christian agenda. This whole thing is becoming more and more of a religion vs games debate every day.

The founder of the PTC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Brent_Bozell_III

ALSO: winters fails on a level never thought possible before. I don't even have enough time to point out each error, but needless to say there's a 1-1 ratio of sentences to errors, at least

This is BS, the PTC are really foolish.

I'm not really shocked by this at all. For some reason more and more pundits are trying to lie in order to get their point across. I think its time we stopped allowing this sort of thing. We need an eloquent writer to step up and start writing pieces to counter them. Editorials and articles that will get people's attention and shif the debate to our terms.

Just because you're for videogames doesn't make you anti-family. That's just a dodge for the real issue, which is and always has been parental accountability. Its high time we called them on this sort of thing.

The only question is who do we nominate to be our voice of the written word?

Senator Joesph McCarthy much.
This reminds me of the fuss over the video nasties in the 80s. Nothing much changes, we just find another scape goat 20 years down the line.

"...And on a final note, i would also like to say that we are a bunch of idiots. Thank you."

My god, i laughed when i read this, thats how bad it is.

Only a Sith talks in absolutes. I will do what I must.

[...] Are you worried about the increasingly violent and graphic content in video games? No PTC, I am not. The headline of this article is a direct quote from the Parents Television Council campaign against video games. Most recently they accuse the ESA (a gamer -interest organization) of trying to buy Congress by forming a PAC (political action committee) to represent the interests of the gaming industry. [...]

@ Evan

Sorry about that..just noticed that you had made that point already lol.

Gotta love how the truth never matters to these people...

I'm sure they expose all those corrupt politicians who accept contributions from the film industry, right? Not because the politicians make laws that grant the film industry unreasonable power over the consumer's use of the products they purchase, but because all films are obscenity? And the record industry, because they promote street gang culture, and not because they get politicians to create laws that create heavy fines and imprisonment for consumers who use their product in ways outside of just listening to it?

The problems here are hypocrisy, and jumbled priorities.

Why are the ignorant so loud?

This whole things sounds like some form of blackmail.

Dammit, should've used html, not bb code. :(

Don't take a tip, don't take a lesson, you can easily win by messin, with the fellahs at the freaking PTC!

I'm am so sick of the PTC. Their main goal in life is to force television back into the 1950s (Meaning boring,pointless sitcoms that suck in this day and age) and to make it where videogames are just for children instead of it's MAJOR target market.

@ E.ZK

Yeah, I just wanted to make sure nobody took my remarks in a way I hadn't intended (and also to avoid being banninated!). Btw, that statement wasn't directed specifically at anybody, more a kind of general disclaimer.

i personally take more offense to politicos taking money from tobacco and big oil.

OK, so uhhh... basically they're saying that

1. There is no middle-ground, one is either pro or anti-family (who the bloody hell coined this classification, and who would actually fall into an 'anti-family' circle?)
2. Video games are nothing but children's toys. AGAIN.

These guys need a reality check. They're starting to sound like LaRouche-ites.

@nightwng2000

QFT

So pretty much, if you play games or if you allow your family to play games, you are against family?

You know, I heard that there are some books with bad words in them. If any polititians accept campeign contributions from people who are litterate, they will be exposed as hypocrytical, lying, scum that supports the worst kind of trashy smut ever written in a human language.

You know what? All those "brain" games are horrible! Brains belong in your HEAD, young man! Not laying in an academy, probably put their by a head shot in school no less! You wouldn't let your gandmother play Bejeweled, would you? A game about wealth, which the bible says is evil, EVIL! And you can HAVE your Mario's collecting GOLD COINS! Most probably to melt down into the statue of a golden calf so he can sacrifice BABIES TO IT!!! [note, this is a joke, I know what the real money quote is]

Mystic,

"Why are the ignorant so loud?"

Because they respond to everything with knee-jerk emotion based on their particular brand of religion/cult/advocacy group's message instead of research and intelligence. Because they wrap their own self-image and self-worth as a part of their particular brand of "-ism"'s beliefs. So any contrary position becomes a personal attack - instead of an opportunity to learn, grow, or at very least defend your own position with class, eloquence, and tact.

Sometimes, though, it feels good just to call them asshats and be done with it. Asshats.

@Simon
Imagine Mr. Rogers with an evil brain.
That's the kind of person who would write something like this article.

@Cheeselikescereal: I also think the practice reeks of buying candidates. But as the saying goes, the game may be crooked but it's the only game in town. The ESA can't sit by idly and let anti-game factions buy candidates and never act to defend its own interests.

He doesn't think society should raise people's kids. He thinks CHRISTIAN society should raise people's kids. The more little victories these extremist christian organizations rack up, the greater influence they will have over government officals seeking re-election.
Eventually they hope to have enough influence to make us into a christian country. Then the real fight will begin against those who aren't christian enough. That's the problem with extremists.

"You wouldn’t let your grandmother play Bejeweled, would you?"

I'm sorry, but I found this humourous, as my grandmother DOES play Bejeweled.

That being said, Benji, you're right on the ball. The Gaming Industry in general has to step up to the dish and fight back here, so these blowhards don't get to hog all the attention. And why the PTC seems to want to threaten politicians who accept donations from game companies is beyond me. They really need to get a little more background info here, beyond just sound bytes and singular incidents like HOt Coffee.

We're under attack by the PTC!!!

So basically they're saying if you don't agree with them you shouldn't be any part of the government?

"The [ESRB] has offered little to prevent companies like Rockstar Games from subjecting millions of children to sexually graphic material as they did with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas."

Apart from labeling it as M for Mature and asking retailers not to sell those games to minors, they've done nothing. If only there was some other controlling factor in the lives of children. Some older people in the house perhaps. Someone with responsibility for the wellbeing of their children.

"More recently, when it was revealed that Manhunt 2 still contained horrific violence that was thought to have been completely removed, the ESRB was missing in action."

I really need to ask if this guy is retarded. Nobody said all the violence from Manhunt 2 was removed. In fact, I think the packaging still says "M for Mature" and has all sorts of indicators like "Graphic Violence" and "Gore" on it. Did this guy think they replaced knives with cookies and drops of blood with butterflies?

the Parents Trash Cult should focus on the likes of Leland Lee, who accepts contributions from Hollywood.

Number of children portrayed as killed in videogames: Zero
Number of children portrayed as killed in Alien vs. Predator - Requiem: Countless

great movie BTW

One more thing:
What the PTC is saying to the politicians is, like Vagrant asked, akin to McCarthyism.

You're a dick PTC.

Why do they blame the game industry for the actions of retailers?

I mean, seriously, what can Rockstar/Take Two do if Best Buy, a North American company, do if they sell M-Rated games to kids? Rockstar has the big black M right there on the box.

All these anti-game origanizations are just going out of their way to make themselves both irrelevant and despised.

@JustChris

All those children that played their first video games in the 80’s, did they stop aging or disappear off the earth?

Yes.

Has anyone here tried to write to the PTC before? More importantly, has anyone written and received an actual non-form letter response? These people all seem like such self-righteous assholes that I'd be very surprised and interested to see a real response from one of them.

I've tried twice and gotten zilch, so I'm simply curious.

@Stinking Kevin
Believe it or not their web site may be the best place to get that information. Just look at any articles mentioning Congress and you can get 2 or 3 names.
But the big one who is actually a higher up in the PTC would be Brownback,
the man who a 0% grade from the ACLU (then again those grades tend to biased in favor of Democrats) but still 0%.

Mystic Says:

January 18th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Why are the ignorant so loud?


Because thousands of years ago idiots werent loud and no one paid them any attention but over time they developed much much larger vocal cords capable of making reasonable people weep and gullible people gasp in terror.

Voters are so used to smear campaigns, that I highly doubt this will work much.

Although either way I wish the ESA would force Hillary Clinton's stance on video games into the open.

I have only one thing to say.

PTC are assholes and should be taken down and dismantled once they try to enslave anyone over 12 for thinking dirty thoughts. What a freaking joke.

Is this the same group that stated it was "disturbing" that adults played videogames?

More critics who don't do research...
Manhunt 2 is only "de-censorable" if you hack a PSP and GTA's coffee shop (Was that what it was called?) scene was only available through hacking your PS2. Neither of which would the average child be able to do... Thanks for messing with the ESA you misinformed watchdogs.

WHO CARES WHAT ANY POLITICIAN THINKS ABOUT GAMES! I don't want to see politicians become puppets of the idiots making games.

God I wish the PTC had forums so I could debate these morons head on.
Perhaps that's what they're afraid of?

@Zerodash:
Yes they are the same people who find it disturbing that us adults play videogames. They really need to get out of the 1950s.

This makes me so angry it's hard to describe. I am all for irresponsible and dishonest people being called out for what they are, but I absolutely detest the false condemnation of people for untrue reasons.

I'm sure all of the lies and misinformation has already been addressed but it bears repeating.

" Let me be clear of our intentions: Any public servant who cashes a check from the video game industry will be exposed by the PTC as taking a stand against families, and his or her actions will be communicated to constituents in his or her congressional district."

So, putting your products through a process which rates it in an effort to give parents information is taking a stand against families? I wonder if these hypocrites do the same thing about politicians who support the movie and music industries, which have been proven by the FTC to have a worse record of sales to younger consumers.

"The video game industry continues to fight meaningful accountability for selling inappropriate material to children."

The video game industry continues to put it's products through the system that PROMOTES PARENTAL accountability for the consumption of digital media by children.

"The industry has been exposed repeatedly for its reprehensible behavior and now they are looking for ways to buy friends in the government…"

Translation: "The industry has been falsely accused in the past, and it's responsible behaviour seen by fringe groups like us as against their nanny-state policies, and they are trying to defend themselves."

"The [ESRB] has offered little to prevent companies like Rockstar Games from subjecting millions of children to sexually graphic material as they did with Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas."

Translation: "The ESRB has put the products of companies like Rockstar Games through a rating process which lets parents know which games are suitable for their kids. Some parents are stupid and ignorant and buy their kids these games."

"More recently, when it was revealed that Manhunt 2 still contained horrific violence that was thought to have been completely removed, the ESRB was missing in action."

Translation: "I am a filthy fucking liar." Manhunt 2 contained horrific action from the start. After a decision and pressure from the ESRB they removed severeal scenes and placed a blur filter over those that remained. Far from being MIA, the ESRB was in the thick of the action and mandated that the game would not be released unless steps were taken to tone down it's content.

"Congress has asked for accountability and Sen. Brownback’s ‘Truth in Video Game Rating Act’ would require the ESRB to actually play the games they are rating, yet the industry appears threatened by this and is looking to procure votes in Congress to keep it from becoming accountable…"

Translation: "Congress has asked that people who create stories, art and imagery, be held accountable for children viewing the afore-mentioned. Sen. Brownback's Video Games Rating act asks the impossible and does not take into account the diverse world of video games such as procedurally generated content, fan modifications, etc. And rightly so, the industry is threatened by this draconian, ill informed and if I may be so bold, BULLSHIT attempt at censorship and are thus taking steps to prevent this desecration of the first amendment."

And who is going to front the money for all these games to be played, in full? He probably doesn't realize that some RPGs can run 70+ hours. Considering the number of games that come out/need rating in any given year, that is a LOT of man hours, especially if you have to go through every possible scenario.

I also still content that "parent" is a verb, not a noun. It is the parent's job to know what media their children are consuming; be it video games, movies, or books. They control the purse strings, the mode of travel, and the remote. Any parent who gives in everytime their child says "I want" needs to grow a pair.

.......really?.......am i awake

@kurisu

So what, I bet I can get one or two debates going before they kick me out (IF they kick me out though, I'm no troll).

I remember when the PTC went after World Wrestling Entertainment. WWE mocked them openly on their programs by creating a stable of wrestlers called "Right to Censor" (RTC). The RTC, headed up by Steven Richards, all dressed in suits and ties. They came out to censor anything they didn't approve of - especially scantily-clad women. It was good stuff.

You DARE bring Mario to my family? YOU MUST DIE!!

@gs68

I'M SO HUNGRY, I COULD DRINK SOME HOT COFFEE

[...] PTC Threatens Politicians Who Accept Video Game Biz Contributions I can’t believe this kind of ignorance mixed with idiocy still exists. (tags: games parenting wtf government) [...]

Fellow gamers let's talk sense here. True hollywood celebrities also shove in campaign donations and no one cares. True we gamers need some form of political representation and that can only be gotten through contributions to get into Capitol Hill but let's be of a higher creed now. Do we really not have any power at all as of now? Are we not already making changes that before seemed impossible, through the help of site's like gamepolitics.com and others of their kind? Truth of the matter is, making political contributions is like bribing and its only a matter of time before we actually do get solid representation in the government. Who cares what the PTC says?....The PTC members. Why should they? because they have nothing else to pick on and need something or are out of a job. Basically what imm trying to say is that, forget what the PTC say, its obvious we are going to get those representative up contributions or not and gamers all over will have one voice! Amen to that brother!

The irony of this is that this group claims to be politically conservative, yet they are EXTREMELY liberal in what they want to do with the videogame industry. Their position is not conservative at all.

@Father Time

You would have as much success having a logical, factual debate as much as you would with any other anti-video game entity doing something similar. Perhaps you may recall, how Leland Yee would not (and technically could not) answer the constitutional aspect about his "nanny state" laws keep failing when the video game industry lawyer posed the question...

Who Watches The Watchdogs?...

Ever wonder why politicians tend to use video games as scapegoats for society's ills? The answer to that question is a very long multi-part essay, but here's the condensed version: money. Other large entertainment industries have enjoyed the privileg...

Meanwhile...

All the politicians who approved this bill will go back home to their giant rocks and stare at their cave paintings while the technological terror known as videogames are injecting the economies of several countries with millions of dollars...

Fast forward 10 years later.. the gamers have completely taken over the parliament and the ban is finally repealed...

plus the fact that ive never been let down by esrb, they rate things based on the content they know is there. ive never played manhunt 2, but i know its violent based on reviews, screenshots, ect. ( i still planm on playing it bedore i send in any data.

@Keith K

I agree with you on that. While i hate all forms of state based censorship and regulations on Free Speech I'd much rather the Ontario Film Review Board rated our video games then using the ultra harsh U.S. based ESRB rating system. Many "M" rated video games would probably only get a 14A up here just like most movies rated R in the U.S. only get a 14A rating here. A few uses of the "F" word, a five second bare breast shot, or a bit of gory violence (so long as it's not excessive) does not warrant an Adult rating (like the U.S. R) up here.

Contributions = bribe, oy. And Bribes are immoral. Say No to Corporate Lobbying! And the PTC needs to commit mass suicide.

"Let me be clear of our intentions: Any public servant who cashes a check from the video game industry will be exposed by the PTC as taking a stand against families, and his or her actions will be communicated to constituents in his or her congressional district."

This line scared me. How can you condemn a person as "anti-family" if they take donations from a industry/group? If the person in question believed that parent's are the best defense their children have, would he be "anti-family"?
What the hell is anti-family, for that matter? Are they cannibals? Do they eat kids? Actually, that seems pro-family. (I'm going to Hell, I know)

@ DavCube

I borrowed the complete Deathnote manga from a friend, so your comment about a notebook made me stop for a minute. I suddenly had an image of Jack with the deathnote... that would be bad.

"The [ESRB] has offered little..."

HOLDONJUSTAGODDAMNMOMENT!!!

In their site, they link to the ESRB RATINGS AND ONLY THE ESRB RATINGS UNDER THEIR SECTION FOR VIDEOGAMES. My brain hurts...

@ Gameboy

I had to think of SOMETHING that wasn't Koridai. *shrugs* XD

Hmm, I'm not sure this is supposed to be in Wikipedia, however truthful it is:

Also, some people think they are whiners who watch TV just to complain about it

SHIT!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Television_Council#Criticism_and_co...

Sorry about the spam :(

@PTC

learn that the responsibility is with parents to prevent their children from playing games THEY deem inappropriate, and retailers to enforce their policy regarding ratings system.

the video games industry makes games for all ages. childrens games are rated for children, adults games are rated for adults. any action you take to intefere is insulting to parents and adults, and probably children and teenagers as well.

The PTC along with other watchdog groups and activists are simply doing what ever they can to reach their ultamate goal: the repeal of the First Amendment.
They along with certain politicians are doing a great job at it. Some on this site say that blaming games will end in about 30 years, I say that's the time when the first goes bye-bye.

What? Politicians support monetarily supportive lobbying groups and their agendas over the more important issues at hand? *boggle*

How else do you build political support? Ethics and comradery? Not in this system.

If you take money from the guys behind Backyard Football, God as my witness I will take all my sweet, sweet arch-conservative money and spend it on trying to paint you as an aloof anti-family liberal who doesn't understand "traditional values" or some other bullshit.

Man these PTC jack-offs are itching for a fight. I wish there was a legislator in Congress willing to give it to them.

PTC, Tim Winter, Brent Bozoell, Sam Brownback Mountain, etc. are ALL moral compasses who are absolute hypocrites-in-fashion who commit beyond vile situations similar to G.Harold Carswell-Mark.A.Grethen-Matthew Glavin-David Schwanke, IMO.