February 12, 2008
There's good news and bad news about Telegraph columnist Jim White.The good news is that White has criticized the nanny state approach to dealing with video games which he sees looming with next month's release of TV shrink Tanya Byron's (left) British government-sponsored report.
The bad new is that he seems to support banning certain games and buys into the "games are kid stuff" stereotype. White writes:
Tanya Byron... is the latest of [Prime Minister] Gordon Brown's battalion of advisers to add to the incipient condition of panic gripping our daily lives...
The issue here is a pretty simple one: legislate fiercely to ensure that the uglier, nastier, sadistic end of the games market cannot gain distribution and then step back and stop worrying about the rest.
Ms Byron's report has not yet been released, but it seems from pre-publication leaks that she takes a different approach, one that will involve nannying ourselves into a state of sustained alarm about the nature of these games...
Here comes the stereotyping:
[Games] are overwhelmingly the preserve of adolescent boys... as yet no one has conclusively proved that playing games damages your health. Since we occasionally hear of some maniac shooting up his high school in middle America after a marathon session on some gory game, the assumption is they are entirely corrupting.
But in such cases it is more the easy availability of real guns, rather than their virtual counterparts, that lies at the heart of the problem.
Comments
Thou art old. Tell the wankers that you play games too, and we might get somewhere.
What they are trying to do is nitpick what their adult populace can do, they should relax and let "the boxing tits" alone(sex and violence) stick with kiddy porn,snuff films and weapons building(?).
That or do what the Japanese do and censor porn.....0-o
Seriously how can anyone condemn a nanny state while simultaneously suggesting the state censors games? One or the other, it cannot be both.
Oh and it's nearly a decade since I was a teen, that goes for my gamer girlfriend too... stereotypes are so tedious.
Gift.
Sixty-seven percent of American heads of households play computer and video games.
The average game player is 33 years old and has been playing games for 12 years.
Thirty-eight percent of all game players are women. In fact, women over the age of 18 represent a significantly greater portion of the game-playing population (31%) than boys age 17 or younger (20%).
In 2007, 24 percent of Americans over the age of 50 played video games, an increase from nine percent in 1999.
"legislate fiercely to ensure that the uglier, nastier, sadistic end of the games market cannot gain distribution and then step back and stop worrying about the rest."
Isn't that being a nanny state? I mean who decides which are the uglier, nastier, sadistic ones? Him? Or buh-dah-buh! The STATE!
Didn't expect to see that there.
-P
Really? Did he really just write that? Would he care to cite these occasions?
He's a pretentious jackass who shouldn't be allowed near a typewriter, let alone a computer and the internet. If he's so completely unable to understand the topic that he's writing about and to do the tiniest bit of research then he shouldn't speak in a public forum and his editor should fire him or, at the very least, refuse to publish this baseless crap.
So, no matter what, gamers are going to always lose an argument.
While he gets the assumptions wrong about gamers as many often do, at lest he acknowledges where the real problem lies.
"While he gets the assumptions wrong about gamers as many often do, at lest he acknowledges where the real problem lies."
Not really. As much as it would be easy to say "it's the prevalence of guns, stupid", it's deeper than that. There are so many factors.
Oh, spare me, Mr. White. Guns can do nothing without some whacked-up nut job pulling the trigger. What need is to watch for the signs and conditions that produce the kind of psychopaths that will shoot up a school.
Guns don't kill people
Gamers with guns kill people.
Though I like her assertion that video games are not the problem, I don't blame guns either. I agree with Jabrwock that this is a multi-faceted issue that no one has taken the time to explore.
i doubt that it will be allowed.
The UK seems to hate rockstar
What a nice way of saying "A oppressive, controlling, tyrannical police state"
I was going to go off on a huge point here about society, violence, etc., but then decided I just don't have the heart at the moment. Screw it. They never learn.
Not to sound like an echo or anything, but I really would appreciate at least some research being done by the journalists before they put pen to paper. It's this central assumption that forms the basis for all the erroneous and fatuous opinions expressed in this article. It's also pompous and more than a little patronising, even if it were true (which it isn't).
What can we do? Journalists like this don't even want to be educated - it seems they'd much rather just reach for the low hanging, out-of-date stereotypes. I dount they even pay much attention to their own comments field.
I just console myself that by 2015 or thereabouts, gaming will have become an accepted part of mainstream British culture by dint of it's sheert pervasiveness. That's not to say, though, that I don't find the bumps along the way uncomfortable in the extreme.
Anyway, here we go again:
@ Americans: Ignore his poorly expressed opinions on gun control - he's just playing to the choir, so to speak.
@ Zerodash: "Pretend"? Is this where we have to go into the whole schpiel on respecting other people's cultural values even if you don't agree with them? Again?
@ Shaesco: You rwalise that GTA4 is a British-made game, right? Scottish, to be exact.
@ Hawkeye: The only British newspaper wiorth its salt is The Independent IMHO, feel free to use the rest as loo roll.
Whcih is bizarre as the Guardian, Herald and teh Scotsman are all fairly Gamer-friendly. (it's a relative concept sadly)
Britain has a gun problem insofar as owning a gun is illegal (except in very rare circumstances, like farmers) and yet we still have horrible gun crime - especially within young, urban ethnic minorities. But you're right - there are more incidents of aggravated assault with a knife than there are of street shootings.
"Is this where we have to go into the whole schpiel on respecting other people’s cultural values even if you don’t agree with them?"
I do not appreciate your continuing attempts to silence critics by way of politically-correct appeals to respect for cultural diversity.
We should respect those cultural values that are worthy of respect, but none others. Some values are not worth defending. Let us never become so tolerant of other people's cultural values that we tolerate indefensible policies.
that makes them the perfect example
Whilst I'm sure a simple "fuck off" would suffice, allow me to explain my position. There are many areas of American culture that I (and I would imagine I'm not the only one) find abhorrent, but I don't feel it necessary to either rub it in your face or cast aspersions as to your character every time I have the opportunity to do so. It's impolite and it doesn't serve to further intelligent discourse.
Once you can come back to me with a conclusive argument on what makes you so incredibly sure that your beliefs accurately reflect what is and what is not objective morality, then I'd be happy to chat with you until the cows come home. Until then, I for one would greatly prefer these comments fields were free from under-researched jingoism.
I think you may have a point there, mores the pity. If only Westmister would realise what an artistic and economic goldmine they were sitting on, then maybe they wouldn't be so reactionary.
hind sight is 20/20(I hope i spelled that right)
hind sight is 20/20(I hope i spelled that right)
for the sake of arguement lets say that is does lead to a ban on video games of all kinds?
What happens to the gamers there?
That won't happen though. I could ask you what would happen if the US banned alcohol. The Magna Carta might not be as easy a read as the Constitution but the UK still has a guarantee that the government won't stiff the people.
I'm tired of feeling like I need to defend the UK all the time. It's not a perfect country, and people are chipping away at the civil liberties of its citizens (highest CCTV-to-people ration in Europe, looming national identity cards, etc.) but that's hardly a reason to come down on it so much all the time. The UK has some slightly more restrictive laws than the US does, but freedom is not an "all or nothing" concept. See also: DMCA, PATRIOT, extraordinary renditition.
I hope you're wearing asbestos underwear...
a)they did ban alcohol
b)Im not slamming the UK. I was saying what happens if a country bans video games and the only reason i used the UK as an example because thats where the article came from
c)You never actually answered my question. I wanted to know what you thought would happen if it did.
a) Quite. What if they did it again? Would it work any better this time?
c) Mass bans on games would be protested by the public, the industry, and other government members and bodies. It could happen but would not last. The UK has more wiggle room than the US for introducing stupid laws.
b) I know you're not, and I'm sorry if it sounded like I was sounding off against you. It was more disdain at seeing a UK-based article in the RSS feed and already knowing what 30% of the comment thread would be about. Time for a table!
US: Bans on any example of any media deemed unconstitutional. Games sometimes censored or heavily targeted when sex is involved (e.g. Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy, Mass Effect). Much lolling and money wasting when someone suggests a ban.
UK: Some media may be restricted for sale if it fails BBFC tests, but ownership is OK. Bans are appealed and generally lifted, or followed with tedious to-ing and fro-ing in the news and Westminster.
Germany: Games may be censored for particularly brutal or mid-1900's content. Citizens import.
China: Personal freedom is so hot-button that a sentence on a GP comment thread really can't do it justice.
City 17: Total ban on video games. Citizens not overly pleased with the decision; attempts made to go outside and play old-fashioned sports tend to result in violent beatings.
Can't. British health and safety regulations have removed my freedom to wear asbestos underwear as it constitutes a risk to myself and others around me. So I'm going commando instead.
Fact 3 -The average game player is 33 years old and has been playing games for 12 years.
Fact 8- Thirty-eight percent of all game players are women
wow.. guess we arent all adolescent boys are we. Nice you did your research Jim White
a)Of course not. most politicans drink heavily
c) if there are protest would the government use armed force to keep control?
c) I doubt it would be like that, but yes. Restriction of liberties tends to result in that sort of thing. As does having more than three British people outside together at any one time. It would be pleasantly ironic to violently protest a ban on violent games too, so I'm sure the public would jump at the chance.
You both have very little grasp of the soul-crushing policies of Labour. We're far too demoralised to do anything against them.
The Tories and the Lib Dems on the other hand.. That could make for a very interesting situation.