February 18, 2008
While the Nintendo Wii has been riding a wave of nonstop positive press since its November, 2006 launch, a physician and a child psychologist in Boston are concerned that the system may train younger players for violence.A video news report on WBZ features Dr. Michael Rich of Children's Hospital:
You are learning the muscle memory necessary to do those acts, to stab someone, to chop someone, to shoot someone. It's one step closer to a virtual reality in which you are actually doing these things to people.
We see the folks that use more violent media tend to be more violent. What we're seeing [in MRI brain studies] is that on some level the virtual violence is equated by our brain the same as real violence.
Also interviewed was Dr. Susan Linn of watchdog group the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood:
A significant number of [younger children] listed M-rated games as their favorite game to play...
I think parents are in the dark... You would have to play the game and you would have to get good at the game to get to the really violent parts, so it's hard for parents.
Although ESRB content descriptors are already listed on video game packaging, Dr. Rich called for additional labeling:
What we need to do is give them the same information that's provided on a can of food they buy in the store or on a cigarette package that says here's what's contained in this, here's what it may do to you. You choose.
GP: Both Rich and Linn have been heard from before concerning the Wii controller. As reported by GamePolitics, the pair expressed similar concerns prior to the release of Manhunt 2 last year.
Comments
While the motion controls for a game like Manhunt mimic the motion, it in no way is even close to accurate, and in many ways is off putting as it makes what should be simple game mechanics must harder to do then they should.
BUt then again, facts mean nothing to these people anyway.
Your comments on the remark about having to get good at the game in order to see violence are basically what I came in here to post. Thanks for saving me some time!
I've been playing games since I was five, maybe less, and I'll be 28 in less than two weeks. I'm yet to play a violent game where the violence wasn't immediately apparent, in more than two decades of this.
Two things.
1st they do realise there is a rating system for games right? God forbid a parent do their job and monitor their children.
2nd As someone pointed out the Wii has what 3 violent games.
The only thing that concerns me is that somewhere down the line, someone is going to listen to this nonsense and rambling and its going to impact the gaming industry through a pointless piece of legislation.
A lot of these so called studies are questionable at best in their methods of proving such links. One that uses brain scanning to prove a link of aggression neglects to mention that same part of the brain is stimulated by any type of action filled activity such as playing sports or even exercising. Should we jump on the band wagon to outlaw those too?
And that doesn't even factor in the difference between swinging a plastic remote and swinging 5 kilos (~11 lbs) of 4 foot long steel...
Anyhoo, let's just ban hockey, baseball, javelin, discus, boxing, martial arts and waving our arms about like the Lost in Space robot, cos clearly all of those things train you with muscle memory to do violence to others...
NEXT!!!
For this maybe the ESRB should give to the Wii games a "special" rating.
Are you sure? Did they ever stop to consider that folks that are more violent tend to use more violent media? Just like every other study done into the alleged effects of violent media, this is called correlation. It's a loose connection that proves nothing.
"I think parents are in the dark… "
They aren't the only ones Dr. Linn...
"You would have to play the game and you would have to get good at the game to get to the really violent parts, so it’s hard for parents. "
That's completely untrue. Look at Devil May Cry, the lead character is impaled through the chest within 30 seconds of the opening cut-scene. Look at God of War, the very first level has people being killed by undead soldiers, and there is a tutorial showing you how to rip them in half. Look at Counterstrike, the current critics target, there isn't even an intro, simply straight into the shooting, no matter how good or bad you are.
Hey, you don't even have to play the damn game, just read the back of the damn box for the content descriptions or go online and read a parent friendly review on Gamerdad.com. It's incredible that these people view parents as being so dumb that they can't figure out what is in a game with all the information that is available. Although, it's equally incredible that parents can and routinely DO ignore the available information, not through it being hard to find or esoteric and difficult to understand, but out of sheer laziness and ignorance.
If parents are letting their under-aged children play M rated games, they forfeit the right to complain.
Keep in mind these same parents are the ones buying the games since I'm sure Jr. doesn't have a job and such a young age.
What. This... this is so...
The stupid. THE STUPID. It ... it physically burns.
Umm... no, you don't have to play it... the ESRB did that for you and rated the game... u know, it's called a rating... its on the box. It looks like a big M and it's really hard to miss. What are they complaining about exactly?
I think parents are in the dark… You would have to play the game and you would have to get good at the game to get to the really violent parts, so it’s hard for parents. "
Then what the bloody hell are those ESRB ratings emblazoned on the box for? You'd have to be blind not to see them, or just plain ignorant. In "Dr." Linn's case, I'm assuming it's the latter.
@kurisu7885
Untrue - have you seen what sort of damage a flying Wiimote can do? It ain't pretty.
I've heard stories,but I was speaking of one one would intentionally do
If your WiiMote goes flying then either you are being *way* too energetic when your using it and the strap breaks (which I have never personally seen or heard of first hand, but there are stories on the net...) or you are not wearing the strap... which means you're a muppet and you basically asked for it.
So the argument is still invalid :)
"What we need to do is give them the same information that’s provided on a can of food they buy in the store that says here’s what’s contained in this, here’s what it may do to you. You choose."
Calories-0 Calories from fat-0
Total Fat-0g
saturated fat-0g
trans fat-0g
Cholesteral-0mg
Sodium-10mg
Need I go on?
Should read "You would have to read the box to find out about the really violent parts, so it's hard to excuse parents."
---------
"What we need to do is give them the same information that’s provided on a can of food they buy in the store or on a cigarette package that says here’s what’s contained in this, here’s what it may do to you. You choose."
I'm sure what he meant was "We currently give them the same information that’s provided on a can of food they buy in the store or on a cigarette package that says here’s what’s contained in this, here’s what it may do to you. It's called the ESRB label, and parents should know about it already."
(i hate how you cant edit)
lemme get this straight mr Michael Rich and mrs susan linn, parents have NO CONTROL over the games their kids play so that they cannot tell if they child is playing a game where you STAB PEOPLE.
you call for additional labelling Rich, but take a look at a dvd case. the labelling on that is even smaller.
if you can't be bothered to take a look at the case of the game your kid is playing to notice it says "M" and then "mature 17+" on it, then your failing as a parent.
Spend some time with your kid already, and discuss the games he/she plays.
If I was a parent I'd be insulted by what these so-called doctors are saying. It's also an insult to the Esrb when she says "I think parents are in the dark… You would have to play the game and you would have to get good at the game to get to the really violent parts, so it’s hard for parents. " because the ESRB IS THERE TO TELL YOU IF IT"S VIOLENT OR NOT. once again, LOOK AT THE FRICKIN CASE!
Do you think any of these guys care? They just want attention, and it works.
Hmmmm... after playing months of many, many Wii games, neither myself nor any of my friends have managed to get so carried away that we let go of the WiiMote... I dunno, maybe u have a mild case of MS or summin?
We have also tried an experiment where we tried to break the strap by lobbing the WiiMote as hard as we could towards the couch... this have been attempted quite a lot and so far no-one has actually managed to get the strap to break either...
/is suspicious
That is the most pathetic thing I have ever seen in my life. A bunch of idiots that got together and decided that no matter what the Constitution says, they feel it necessary to ruin the fun of adults and kids alike.
i mean if not for the game my muscles would be completely incapable of technically challenging..um... movement... toward..something...
god i need a wii so i can train my arms. for years i didnt know how they worked. im actually typing with my teeth.
"Blood and Gore
Crude Humor
Intense Violence
Sexual Themes
Strong Language"
You're right, I think the entire back of the box should be the warning. And we should also design a robotic arm that will bitchslap anyone under 18 who tried to pick up the book.
err why say it critically... where else are thye going to put it you moron..
Okay, I've never had problems finding out what's in the game. Content descriptors are already there. As for what it may DO to you, this exists purely in a realm of science fiction. There have been NO studies which have positively identified violent media as a causation factor in violent behavior. So what you are demanding is inaccurate health risk labels...
and you call yourself a Doctor...
and .. suprise suprise.. parents still ignored it and (pending the byron review) it is expected they actually will reccommend only the BBFC rating system.
>Virtual reality
>Actually doing these things to people
Idiot.
"...they rack up points for every person they kill...."
Very few games these days give you "points". This just goes to show you these idiots don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
"You are learning the muscle memory necessary to do those acts, to stab someone, to chop someone, to shoot someone..."
Yes, because the only way to know how to stab or chop someone is by playing with a Wii controller. I am sure everyone, including those who don't play videogames, know how to stab or chop. And is holding a remote control type object in your hand really that similar to holding a gun? No.
"You would have to play the game and you would have to get good at the game to get to the really violent parts, so it's hard for parents..."
Bullshit. Show me a game where it's not violent at all and then it gets really violent once you know how to play.
"What we need to do is give them the same information that's provided on a can of food they buy in the store or on a cigarette package that says here's what's contained in this, here's what it may do to you."
He's right, we don't have a ratings board that puts a big letter on the front of the box and then content descriptors on the back.
Hand out the bubble wrap...
Move over Thompson and all other alikes - no-one buys this crap anymore.
"You are learning the muscle memory necessary to do those acts, to stab someone, to chop someone, to shoot someone."
The Wiimote is so sensitive in its motions, you could do something barely related to the same motion and still end up having the action take place on screen sometimes.
"It’s one step closer to a virtual reality in which you are actually doing these things to people."
And by that time the systems will be so freaking expensive NOBODY outside of the insane hardcore people are going to buy them.
"What we need to do is give them the same information that’s provided on a can of food they buy in the store or on a cigarette package that says here’s what’s contained in this, here’s what it may do to you. You choose."
"Here's what it may do to you??" Excuse me?? THERE HAS BEEN NO PROOF IT DOES ANYTHING TO ANYBODY.
More than that, what are they looking for? They already have, like, a dozen different 'violence' descriptors. What more do they want? A list of every fatality move on the back of an Mortal Kombat box? The list of weapons you can use on the back of a Halo game? How many sexual referance VA lines are within a GTA title?
This ISN'T food. This ISN'T a chemical. And i've said it before, and i'll say it again, THIS ISN'T THE MATRIX. It's SOFTWARE.
"Hey, it's a game that occasionally has you make a generic movement while you play to simulate things, it must makes you want to murder!!" Genius. Just genius.
And food label styl rating descriptors? Are you kidding me? Can we ban people from appearing on television? There has to be some sort of legal reason we can use to forcibly stop the stupid. This isn't just about videogames anymore, since anyone stupid enough to believe in this half-assed excuse for logic is not fit to tell anyone anything.
If more children are playing M-rated games, then why aren't the parents doing anything about it?
I'd change your phrase to:
"Typical watchdog group crap."
Apparently sitting down with your kids and watching how they enjoy the game YOU BOUGHT THEM is too much of a burden for everyday people. We need the government to watch our kids for us. If it's too hard for you, heaven forbid you spend time with your child.
I forgot to mention the Wii also has parental controls.
Going outside is a murder simulator.
ESRB has been pointed out, but I thought i would mention that food nutrion labels make no mention whatsoever of what a food or one of it's contents might do to you. Before I knew what it was, I thought high fructose corn syrup couldn't be that bad, because it comes from corn. "What it may do to you." That's just stupid.
@myrpok:
I agree one hundred percent. Parents today don't want to make the extra effort, or any effort. Like that woman on the Fox News Mass Effect thing:
"You have to pick up the box and look on the back of it and be really involved. It be really difficult."
And clearly those smoking warning labels have had an effect since no one smokes. And smoking has a lot of benefits too. Like zero of them.
Most parents won't care about some label on a videogame, because most parents don't care about videogames. They don't see the harm in them. Why does the media?
The jury's still out as to what violent games do, and to whom. The chemicals in cigarrettes effect all smokers, this is fact. But when dealing with psychological effects, there are no blanket statements like "will cause cancer."
"Chopping?" The only chopping I seem to recall doing via Wiimote was Cooking Mama.
They're talking about a device that looks like a TV remote and that children can flail about like a club, because that's about as much as you'll be doing with it. The last time they had one of these shows where someone was "demonstrating" the Manhunt 2 controls, he didn't look like he was bashing someone's face in: he looked like he was about to have a seizure.
Damn fear mongers.
The whole point of martial arts forms is to learn "muscle memory" on how to hurt people. Why has there not been a backlash against martial arts instruction for children/minors?