No problems?

So the fact that when a game that should get an R18+ gets rated one of the following happens isnt a problem then?

1 - gets banned outright

2 - gets edited and rated at MA15+

3 - gets rated at an age rating too low, ie MA15+ (no way should Bioshock be that rating for example)

While im sure the first 2 are "no problem" the third surely is.

Rage... increasing....

How dare they get our hopes up! I have been waiting for a R18+ rating to be introduced SINCE i turned 18, 10 years ago... WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END????? why do i have to be in one of the most RETARDED countries when it comes to game classification? *sighs & goes back to playing games that are "banned" in this country because of the idiots in parliment*

SO basically they're going to drag their feet until this can be quietly forgotten.

Damn this will take a while.

This does not surprise me at all.

Much as I want an 18 rating here, these things just take time, and lets face it video game ratings are bound to be low on the priority list... something would honestly be wrong if they were high.

Politicians suck. End of story.

This is why government ratings boards suck. How long would it take the ESRB to make a new rating? The time it takes to fill out the paperwork?

Isn't the average age of a gamer 33 or something?

So how does it make sense to top out the rating system at 15, under half the age of the average gamer? 18 makes sense because that's about the worldwide average for when your legally an adult

Agreed, Neeneko. It's not like our troops aren't home because there aren't enough people working on it, or because we had to apologise to the aboriginals first.

Even if I could stomach the sort of stuff the people of Australia have done to the land's indigenous peoples, it's this sort of crap that ensures that I will be warning my friends to avoid traveling to what appears to be an increasingly backwards and repressive state. And I'd encourage you to do the same

Hey, I was about to reiterate everyone's complaints above, but actually I have a question. I know from the news reports that this (psst Mr. Ludwig) HUGE GAPING FLAW in the Australian ratings system commonly results in the more adult-oriented games being banned from sale. I've only read about US- and European-developed games, though. Is this also a problem with domestically produced games? In other words, if I was a developer in Sydney and decided to make a game that exceeded MA15+ standards for sexuality or violence, would the government also step in and prohibit sale or require me to change content?

By the way, I'm an American, but if I were an Australian and games suffered systematic government censorship, I would seriously be protesting in the streets. I realize that sounds like bedroom-nerd bluster, but I swear I would. It's an art cause. Governments have no business regulating art, whether it's made with paintbrushes or pixels.

I knew this would take a while

Only the State Victorian Attorney General has voted to openly support the R18+ rating for Videogames back a few years ago....

Sadly this does not win the votes for others...

There's a factual error in your story, based on misreading the CNet piece. Ludwig isn't the "Labor Government Shadow Attorney-General". It's not possible for him to be the Labor Shadow anything as Labour hold power in every state and territory as well as federally. In fact the CNet piece specifically calls him the "then-incoming Labor Government Shadow Attorney-General Joe Ludwig".

He's now the Minister for Human Services: http://www.senatorludwig.org/

For what it's worth, it's pretty irrelevant what he said then and CNet shouldn't have really run the quote and you shouldn't have made things worse by taking it out of context. The fact this is being discussed at all demonstrates that discussion on this in the government has moved on from that point. That doesn't mean it will happen quickly but at least they are discussing it. Given the relative importance of this issue compared to say, indigenous health issues or global warming, not to mention rolling back the Liberal Government's "workchoices" legislation etc etc etc it's not surprising that this won't be a priority.

@Neeneko

I know full well that it's a common misconception. I used to personally know a sitting member of federal parliament. They discuss a lot of things and do a lot at the same time, and always have someone on their case about something.

The way I should have worded it was "I believe they should focus on those issues". I know our pollies always have someone on their doorstep complaining about something so if the gamers here take a more mature approach rather than jumping up and down, we're more likely to be taken seriously.

Yes, there is a culture here of "video games are for kids" but if we all write letters, get petitions together and take what the politicians consider to be the "official route", we're more likely to be taken seriously on this issue.

@Shih Tzu:
Well, here's the problem. Because of Australia's draconic and repressive system there is next to no developers that are willing to test the waters with adult content for fear of being banned in their own backyard. It is a chlling effect that pisses me off so badly because I work in Australia's largest development studio.

I wrote the Attorney Generals and Ministers in regards to this very issue this morning, and I hope to get some form of reply. When I do, I will post it here. My letter is below.

Good morning Hon. A.G. Michael Atkinson, Hon. A.G. Robert McClellend, Hon. Minister Bob Debus and Hon. Minister Joe Ludwig.

I recently read a report on CNet via http://www.gamepolitics.com about the government's views on games classification. This was followed by this aggravating report (http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,23282288-5014239,00.html) that Mr. Atkinson still opposes the introduction of an R18+ classification for games, despite equivalent and higher ratings being applied to other media such as film. I have been working in the games industry for some time now as a designer, so I am involved in all aspects of game development. I have often wondered how Australia can justify such an archaic and hypocritical ratings system when related to interactive entertainment. I fail to see how the State and Federal governments can not see the hypocrisy behind allowing movies as violent as Saw or more recently Rambo to have an adults only rating but then Refuse Classification to far less gory forms of entertainment, such as the games Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude, Soldier of Fortune 2 or the recently banned Dark Sector. An R18+ rating is an absolute necessity for the future growth of the industry and economy here in Australia

Games are not just children's toys. They are an art form and the premier entertainment choice of millions of people around the world, with thousands of titles targeted at all different age groups. Games developers are educated, intelligent and creative people and Australia's draconic ratings system is a constant slap in the face to every artist, programmer and designer. Games development is turning into an economic powerhouse, and worldwide games revenue exceeds all other forms of entertainment.

1. Australia earns $100 million in export revenue from games each year.
2. The Australian interactive entertainment industry employs approximately 5,000 people.
3. 14% of all game classification decisions are in the MA15+ category.
4. In the first six months of 2007, the total market for interactive entertainment hardware and software grew by 30%.

Source: http://www.ieaa.com.au/5.research/top_10_industry_facts.html

Further study by Bond University, with support from the IEAA shows that gaming is not a children's hobby. The full study can be found here: http://www.ieaa.com.au/5.research/Interactive%20Australia%202007.pdf

1. The average age of gamers is 28 years.
2. 60% of players are male. 40% are female.
3. 8% of gamers are seniors (over 60 years).
4. Women and older Australians are the fastest growing audiences for interactive games.
5. 35% of gamers are parents.
6. 60% of gamers play for up to an hour at a time a few times a week.
7. 73% of parents say that games help their children learn about technology.
8. Playing computer and video games does not compete with non-media and outdoor leisure activities. Instead it competes with other media such as TV, film and music.
9. Research by the Australian government shows Australians are confused about the difference between the M and MA15+ classifications.
10. 88% of Australians support a common classification system for games and films.

The first and last statistic are perhaps the most relevant to my point. The average age of a gamer is 28 years old. An undeniable 88% of people support a media wide classification system. Eighty-eight percent. I ask you, Hon. Minister Atkinson, how can you justify refusing an R18+ rating when 88% of Australians support a common classification. Further, how can you justify said action when Australia is one of the only countries in the world to not have an adult classification for games. Australia is so far behind the curve of new media because of these sentiments that many people are turning to piracy in order to have the choice of playing these products. No matter how much you try, you will never be able to stop piracy and the most pirated materials are those that are effectively banned from sale. One poster on Gamepolitics sums it up:

… this is the type of thing that leads to piracy. Or at least it would if our internet wasn’t slower than most 3rd world countries. I’m so baffled as how to how this new rating is nothing but beneficial? Am I to actually put faith in a ratings board that allows me to buy the most sick and depraved pornography imaginable to the most gruesome of slasher flicks but would say that Soldier of Fortune 2 is strictly out of bounds? As a developer living in Australia I’ll tell you first hand that the ratings board is so slack on what it considers it appropriate for 15 year olds (bloody chainsaw guns barely raised a fuss). But then other things are blown out of proportion. This confuses me to no end… Thank goodness for torrents I suppose…

Stay Classy,
Clever

When Australians heard about the government considering an R18+ rating for games from the mass media, gamers everywhere rejoiced. This is something we've been trying to push for years, and people from all other countries have called our ratings system 'backwards' and 'ridiculous'. Not only is the lack of an adult rating for games hurting the consumers choice (it is effectively censorship), it is providing a chilling effect to all games development studios in Australia to not produce adult content. It is huirting the games retailers of Australia who lose revenue from not being able to stock these titles, it is hurting developers all around the world as Australians turn to piracy to obtain the product. The lack of an R18+ classification for games is hurting Australia's economy. Considering that 88% of Australians believe that we need a common classification for films and games, and that the ministers of our government are supposed to be speaking for the people, how can you possibly turn this down again?

Lastly, I realise there are certain issues that are more important in parliament than games classification, but the interactive entertainment industry is growing exponentially and because of Australia's draconic content classification system, the Australian economy is missing out on the most rapidly growing industry in the world.

I, on behalf of game Developers of Australia; and all adult gamers of Australia, strongly urge you to look at the facts and the statistics. Look at what the people of your country are crying out for and institute an adult rating for games that should have been in place since the very beginning, like almost every other free developed country in the world.

Sincerely,

Christian Carriere
Level Design
Krome Studios HQ
111 Constance Street
Fortitude Valley, QLD 4006
------------------------------------
Ph: 0419 786 460
E-mail: christiancarriere@kromestudios.com
------------------------------------

You think that is bad...

Have a squiz at what Labour wants to do to us next...

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=910501

This is a thread on the Whirlpool forums (Australian Broadband discussion) about the current governments attempt to bring in "Great Firewall of China" filtering to all Australian ISP's.

The reason: To keep the kids safe from kiddie porn.

Besides, Labor can't afford to piss of the Family First senator that holds a vital swing vote in the Senate atm.

http://www.familyfirst.org.au/policy/policypornography.pdf

Oh yeah, they are also thinking of compulsory ISP filtering of P2P content. So much for net neutrality...

Australia. The lucky country. We're getting more socialist each year and we're slipping towards freaking communist/nanny state at an alarming rate.

"While I understand that many in the community desire the addition of an R18+ rating for video games, the Federal Labor Party does not believe that there are any fundamental problems with the functioning of the classification system in Australia and, as such, we do not currently have any proposals to work with state governments to introduce such additional ratings for video games."

Wait, politicians are there to act as a representative by the majority, who voted them into power, correct? So by that means, they're job is to represent what we as the majority call for, correct?

So even though there's a majority of people calling for this change, because of their own personal opinions, they're going to simply ignore what is being requested of them and simply do whatever they want?

ENJOY YOUR DEMOCRACY, AUSTRALIA

Hmm, I've recently found out that I'm very distantly related to the new prime minister, maybe I can get together for a chat with him...

I feel sorry for the Aussies. Their rating system actually gives adults less of a choice for games than kids. Consider a 12-year old, he'd have access to all the games that are fit for 12 year olds. Now a 22 year old, he will not have access to any games that will be too harsh for 15 year olds, so that pares down the potential selection of games by something like 40%.

It's almost as if their government is trying to make people stop gaming once they reach a certain age.

Shih Tzu: Yeah Australia does have an organisation know as the Games Developers Association of Australia. http://www.gdaa.com.au/ And while I support everything they do, even that is not enough. Our only problem at the moment is the South Australian Attorney General who continues to be close minded about Interactive Entertainmnet, even in the face of an 88% consensus towards common ratings.

As much as the GDAA can picket and form alliances, sign petitions and provide debates and lectures it all falls onto the heads of the Attorney Generals and if even one of them disagree, the motion will not be passed. Great way to run a democracy, huh?

/angry.