...never mind open borders and the influx of third world people is a globalist plot to turn the United States, soon to become part of a North American Union, into a feudal slave labor gulag based on the China model...

I found this section of the InfoWars article to be very telling of the Author.
"ZOMG ITS R TEH CONSPRASSY!"

I didn't know the process started that early EZK. Anti Immigration laws are laughable because of their hypocrisy as the U.S.A was built on immigrants. However I'm fine with keeping illegal immegrants out of the country.

@DeusPayne Says:
February 29th, 2008 at 10:36 am

@yuki: what defines legal as opposed to illegal? a random arbetrary piece of paper that our government sees fit to NOT give to people. blah blah blah no one is illegal.

We are a nation of laws that needs to count and "find" people for taxes law and other things to have thousands of people sneaking in screwing over local systems left and right.

I am sorry nothing gives them the right to come here without due process, its true the current system is messed up but that dose not make them legal.

Why don't we dissolve rules and laws and let anarchy rain i am sure chaos is better than what we have now. *rolls eyes*

the system is broken and uninterested in a fix, the best plan of action I can think of that fits in with what America tries to be and laws and rules to bind it too you start with a green card system thats set to a 10 year time out as the immigration system is totally revamped, you get people to come out of the wood work pay their dues to the country they are living off of (fine for illicit entry on thous who have entered illicitly and back taxes) this way they can be made citizens if they so wish as long as they have stayed out of trouble when the immigration system is revamped, until then at least they are counted and taxed that is all that matters.

Alex Jones also notes, as usual with other info to back it up that cops are ordered not to arrest illegals. They are just let across the borders. I wouldn't be surprised if they were given a pat on the back and some dope to sell by border patrol on the way.

So you see, this game is ridiculous and has no basis in reality. It's probably a really funny joke to all the illegal immigrants who play it.

WHAT THE FUCK.

...I'M A MEXICAN. I HAVE A FUCKING NEW MAC LAPTOP AND DESKTOP. I HAVE AN HDTV. I HAVE A FUCKING GAMING CONSOLE.

...What the fuck is up with this guy?
Mexico has big cities. It has one of the biggest cities in the world (Mexico city)
All my friends are in the same economic situation as me.

...Fuck it, this man is a know-nothing maricon faggot.

@Erik:
Yes, but is too much fun to blame inmigrants for all that is wrong in USA, but the big corporations you give sh*it abot they breaking the law.

And they are keeping inmigrants to break the border illegaly.

Let me know when you reach China.

"If America is such a great nation and the nation to achieve success, then illegal or not shouldnt matter."

You make a mockery of all real immigrants who put forth the time and effort to do the right thing by supporting parasitic invaders. Furthermore you are still wearing your rose colored glasses.

PC zero tolerance shows EVERYONE can hate you ^^

The haters call it a "simulator";
The PC nazis call it discriminatory;

oh the lulz!

"Strange to see them target ICE."

You didn't read her response then, I gather.

You know, Living as I do in a border state, and having grown up in one, i'd like to just make a quick point to both sides of the line.

1. Enforment first Advocates are NOT Anti Imimgration. We are ANTI ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!!!!!

2. Pro Imigrants need to Realize that until they stop backing ILLEGALS, they wont' get ANY form of respect in BORDER STATES! I know that better then anyone. Arizona, where I live, Enacted some of the more strict Employer Sanctions bills EVER. Why, cause the Pro Illegals gave the rest of the IMMIGRATION REFORM people a BAD nam.

Until people start understand these points, this debate is gonna get more and more lopsided till the borders look like prison fences. It's already happening in Arizona. WHile IM a big enforment first proponent, Im also one of the biggest critics of the current Immigration system.

Just my 2 cents.

Wow, so racist.

Is it just me, or does the InfoWars site feel disturbingly racist, with a tad bit of LaRouche's trademark paranoia?

This guy seems uneducated and paranoid as hell. Nothing more can be said about him hes just another mindless drone. To agree with Yuki this game isn't the problem its two sides bickering and getting nothing done. I'm all for immigration because thats how most of us got here. However I dislike those who would sneak across our borders and then not work to become a citizen.

clarification: don't really want to argue here. Just pointing out the hilarity in the hypocrisy of anti-immigration laws in a country founded by immigrants.

Does anyone have the character bios? I tried looking at their site and didn't feel like waiting ten minutes for the flash to load.

I was able to read one of them, the girl has a green card and is being sought by the FBI because they think she is a suicide bomber.

After reading that, I started wondering. What does that have to do with immigration? Its just Government paranoia.

http://www.mtv.com/news/photos/i/iced_080215/03.jpg

I dunno, maybe I'm off base here?

You know, when I read that "response", my immediate thought was of somebody screaming "THE BEANERS ARE TAKING OVER!!!!!!!".

As a response to some of you, illegal immigration is not new. Been happening ever since the Mexican-American War, if not before.

@DeusPayne

There are some clear differences here. The main one being that the Latinos are bringing criminals with them, don't want to be citizens, aren't spending most of their money here, and come from countries (especially Mexico) prone to rioting at the drop of a hat. Then there is the small issue that they are not sticking to jobs that Americans won't do. You can find illegal electricians, plumbers, and construction workers just as easily as you can find crop pickers and factory workers. Plus, you seem to have forgotten that even though we are based on immigration, too many people in one place can become a big environmental problem. Does the system need reform? Yes. If it was, would it stop illegals from coming over anyway? No. Worse yet, they're stealing identities to get here now.

"Then there is the small issue that they are not sticking to jobs that Americans won’t do."

WHAT!?!??!?!?! So... the only way someone can come to this glorious nation is to do menial work that no one else wants? Well, I guess it's a good thing that there are nothing but white doctors, professors, and engineers.

"Plus, you seem to have forgotten that even though we are based on immigration, too many people in one place can become a big environmental problem."
Uh... why? Are the mexicans so dirty that they're smelling up the border states?

As for 'illegals' commiting crime and whatnot for all those related arguments. What about people born here that do the same thing? They're still allowed to stay. And someone breaking the law is by no means reason to deem others criminals as well.

And i'll just ignore your racist comment about Latinos.... before I end up punching something.

@ Scolar

Yeah, before you can come to the US to work, go to school, or to become a citizen, all the paper work starts outside the US. You have to apply for VISAs and a green card. You have to get special work permits and education permits (these are a part of the VISA. There are several types you can get).

If you are coming to the US to become a citizen, you apply as normal and specify tht you intend to nationalize. Then you have to live in the US for a certain number of years before actually getting your citizen status.

But if you come here on a work or education VISA, you cannot just apply for citizenship. You can do so while still here, but there is a different process to go through.

It is a lot of red tape, no matter which path you go through, but it is necessary.

Personally, I don't like the idea of illegal immigrants. If they really want to come t othis country and live, they should do so properly. There is also the fact that the majority of them send the money they recieve here, to their family back where they came from.

@EZK

I had some understanding of the process but obviously not as much as you.

@ Simon Roberts

I'm pretty sure that thats a law here in the U.S., a pretty stupid law if you ask me.

This just seems like one giant cluster fuck and nobodies doing anything about it. They just figure that if you argue enough the problem will be solved.

"open borders and the influx of third world people is a globalist plot to turn the United States, soon to become part of a North American Union, into a feudal slave labor gulag based on the China model."

What? That's a crazed, paranoid conspiracy theory if I ever heard one. Only this time it's coming from a so-called "Patriot," not some so-called "Rebel."

@Twin-Skies

Is it just me, or does the InfoWars site feel disturbingly racist, with a tad bit of LaRouche’s trademark paranoia?

That's Alex Jones for you. He makes his money marketing conspiracy theories to the tinfoil hat crowd.

And, note to InfoWars: ICED is not played on a console or a television. It’s a PC game.

Ouch, InfoWars just got handed the "False Advertising" card, unless of course they're at war with information.

We are a nation of laws that needs to count and “find” people for taxes law and other things to have thousands of people sneaking in screwing over local systems left and right IS NOT A GOOD THING.

blah my brains(or whats left of them) for a edit button!

and sorry for the tripple post, but what about all the LEGAL citizens that don't pay taxes, and break the law and mooch off of the generous tit of america. Should we deport them to too? Maybe to australia, like one giant penal colony?

DeusPayne
Oooo mabye because they are born citizens who earned that right to mooch, and most crimanils lose a lot of their rights, and if you do not pay taxes you are either under the tax radar because you do not make enough or the IRS is looking for you.

Again you are mixing immigrant with illegal immigrant, its like the diffrence in illicit drugs and legal drugs.

"Oooo mabye because they are born citizens who earned that right to mooch"

Yeah, because you get to chose where you're born, and who your parents are. Seriously... fuck you. It's this kind of rampant ignorance that politicians feed on.

And do we even need to talk about drugs. Oooh.... you have pot, you're a criminal. Oooh... you have an OPIATE.... oh, but you're wearing a white coat....

The point that you still have completely missed is that the term illegal is just an arbitrary word that the government decides to put in place. It used to be legal for lynch mobs to hang blacks, that doesn't mean the law that was in place is just. It also used to be illegal for blacks to use 'white' bathrooms. Does that mean that just because it's the law, you MUST DEFEND it? I know many immigrants both legal and illegal (coming from a family that fled the vietnam war). Many of my relatives ended up coming over illegally, but they never broke any other laws, and after a set amount of time of living in the country, you are allowed to apply for citizenship, regardless of your immigration was legal or not. But you're saying just because some crack head rapist was BORN in the US, he deserves to continue mooching off the government, while someone else who has done nothing illegal except not attain a piece of paper are imprisoned without legal representation, and deported to their home country, regardless if that means they're returning to a death sentence. Like I said, think before you speak.... you're coming off like a HUGE jerk who's sole basis of judging a person is where he happens to squeak out of their mother's vagina.

And please, can ANYONE tell me how the HELL you can think that just because you happened to be born in this country, that you deserve any more basic human and civil rights than someone who has lived here their entire life on a green card.

OH MY FUCKING CHRIST!!!!!

LETS SAY IT TOGETHER

I NEVER said all immigrants should be legal. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I REPEATED THIS!?!?!?!?!!

The point is that just because someone is labeled 'illegal' doesn't instantly turn them into a criminal mastermind who's screwing everyone else. There are ILLEGALS who are productive, and there are ILLEGALS who aren't. Yes, deportation does need to happen. Yes, illegals need to be kept in check. But just because they happened to be born on some other soil is NO REASON TO TREAT THEM LIKE CATTLE!

DeusPayne
""
I NEVER said all immigrants should be legal. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I REPEATED THIS!?!?!?!?!!""

No enough apparently.

Alex Jones, your stupid is showing:

"As the average Mexican or Latin American does not have access to a video game console, let alone a television…"

So the implication in the language you used is that people are more likely to have access to a video game console then a television. Hey genius, how would they play it?

That’s the thing about stupid people - they tend to believe stupid things

I was about to comment on this. Completely off topic, but I am soooooooo sick of seeing people who don't know how the phrase "let alone" is supposed to be used abuse it the way they do.

Stinking Kevin: At one point in time it was considered illegal for a black person to use a 'white' persons bathroom. Does that mean that it should still be that way now, just because it was the law.

"Furthermore, because these “rights” are a matter of U.S. law to some extent, an illegal immigrant does not deserve the same rights or legal status as a legal foreign national resident."

I'm sorry, but that is something that I just can't deal with. You believe that American's are so superior to the rest of the world, that we deserve basic human and civil liberties, and the rest of the world doesn't?

DeusPayne
thats the price they pay for coming here illegally and refusing to leave when the government finds them one can be a adult and treat the situation maturely or be a child a run and fuss and cry.

Illegals should have human rights yes, civil rights not so much, they are not part of the system and should not be entitled to ALL of its benefit's legal or otherwise.

I do not like them not begin part of the system.
I do not like them being deported.
I do not like employers taking advantage of the situation.
I do not like government inaction and endless politics.

we can absorb them and build a system that is not slow and cumbersome on letting people in, the root cause of this issue is a poor and broken immigration system and not the immigrants LEGAL OR OTHERWISE that find themselfs in the middle of it.

We can simply stop all deportation operations and move to tracking operations, make way for the overhaul and find these people and give them a choice either you leave or you get a green card that will be vagauly checked but frankly I am more worried for stability over current details , get them cards so that they are tracked and counted for this with overhauling the immigration system will be about the only way to move things forward, but I doubt it will happen both sides of the argument want to much.

@ zippy: thank you for that response, it was MUCH better worded, and organized, and thought out than most of your other posts.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of what your saying even. I just feel that violating human rights is just FAR too much. Yeah certain civil liberties we take for granted they might not deserve. Legal representation isn't something that's free, yeah holding them in a cell is probably necessary in many cases. It just bugs the crap out of me that people are being treated like animals ANYwhere, let alone on US soil. Our country is founded on freedom, and human rights, and immigration. All 3 of those things are thrown out the window in most cases of 'illegal immigration' when the only law broken was immigration laws. The concept that anyone is less human or less deserving of being treated like a human, is something that I just can't take sitting down.

Once again, I appolgize for any flipping out I've been doing in this thread. This topic hits very close to home for me as I have relatives that had to flee from the vietnam war. Yeah most were able to get refugee status, and work visas, and my mom even got a student visa originally. But I do have relatives that arrived illegally, and over the course of the past 30 years have PROVEN that they can be productive members of society without breaking laws. The fact that one relative of mine is considered by the government a productive member of society, and another relative, who is essentially the same person, in the same situation, just without that piece of paper can be considered a wanted criminal, who doesn't deserve basic human rights.

And honestly, can anyone say that they wouldn't try to come to the US, even if they had to do it illegally, in a country that was so backwards that they had you shot for going to college?

Sorry to nitpick here, i'm more just making a joke than anything, don't read too much into this:

"however the diffrance is they are/were citizens illegals are not"

What about when they were considered 3/5ths of a citizen, does that mean they only deserve 3/5ths of the benefits that america has to offer? :p

Okay, i'm kidding. Not a real point, I just couldn't pass up bringing up the 3/5ths rules. Such a hilariously misguided part of our nation's past.

Yay for diane for being able to put into words, what I clearly cannot. That was a very concise, and i believe very clear explanation of everything I've been complaining about... except without all the hysterical ranting peppered through out everything. Thank you Diane.

@DeusPayne
I am not in favor of discrimination among American citizens. I am in favor of discrimination between citizens, and legal foreign nationals, and illegal immigrants. Not as human beings, but simply as residents of our sovereign nation.

I do believe that we should strive to protect basic human rights around the world. I believe that overall, the U.S. does a better job than most at affording those basic rights to all people, regardless of their citizenship or status.

I also believe the government has a responsibility to comply with and enforce the agreements it makes, including agreements with visitors to our country. I believe that foreign nationals should not be allowed to vote in U.S. elections. I believe that illegal immigrants should not have the same legal right to government assistance programs that registered, tax-paying citizens have.

No need to apologize again, but I'm not sure why is that is so difficult to deal with.

I think I see where you're going with this, Deus... putting the pieces together, are you saying that just because the person is or became an illegal immigrant doesn't mean they a criminal leech? Indeed, while these illegals can indeed be good-natured people looking simply to improve their lives, they are still breaking the law and thus should still face consequences. It's like the tale of a poor man who stole bread to feed his family - while he may have had good intentions, that doesn't justify what he did. It was a crime nevertheless.

While I will agree it's not right to punish good people, I also feel that just because their intentions are good, they shouldn't be let off the hook with a slap of the wrists. These illegals are still sapping America, taking US money to help themselves and not paying the government anything back in return (i.e., taxes). These illegals, who may or may not have gone through the same trials as a legal immigrant, are breaking the law and bankrupting America while taking jobs from legal citizens by working for much less.

I know that it's a sad issue - these illegals may not be criminals by heart, but if they're going to live in this country, they need to make sure they abide by US laws just as they would if they were living in any other nation. By failing to renew their green cards, sneaking into the nation (an activity akin to spies, criminals, and terrorists, may I add), and failing to pay the proper tax money to the US government, they are breaking the law. They may not be criminals by heart, but they are criminals by law.

@DeusPayne
I consider myself a staunch civil libertarian, and I like to argue a lot too. I am glad to know we agree much more than we disagree. Cheers!

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door

Maybe it should be changed to...

Dontgive me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
Leavethe wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to Death:
I lift my ltorch beside the golden doorTo burn their house down

WOW what a hot button issue.

I wonder how many people actually have left the United States or their home country and actually traveled to these 3rd world or impoverished areas?

But I digress.

The funny thing about immigration is that it is wanted when their an economic boom and it is hated when there is an economic depression.

Hmmm does that mean America is in a depression right now?

I remember reading about Americans going over to Asia during the gold rush, and for the railroads, telling Asians that they have jobs for them. Then once again during the industrial revolution. After all it was the Chinese that built the railroads not the Americans.

Hmm I wonder if the problem with immigration is also connected to the problem of Companies no longer having factories in America. After all our toys, clothing, tools, are produced in China, Malaysia, Taiwan, Haiti. and other places where we can pay for cheap labor.

Hmm another thing I have been wondering about. Those pesky H1B visa, you know the ones that people from India have no problem getting. I wonder if this can also tie into the immigration problem as well.

Of course then this Discourse is about being illegal. Hmmm I wonder what would happen if the shoe is on the other foot. Passport anyone? Have you lost it? No the America Embassy cant help you? hmm. Going to Mexico for a vacation Oh no you have been arrested. Want America to help you. Why? Well your treated like Crap in a foreign country. Why? your not Citizen of our country so why should be treated as human?

Hmmm maybe should make a connection with another problem with the Justice System. Ever since the inclusion of DNA evidence, how many people were set free? But before that how many people actually believe they committed the crime? So should we treat all people once they are guilty as criminals? Just Kill anyone that is guilty. Tie them um restrain them? Use them to test new drugs? Torture them just because you were found guilty by your peers. And then say sorry when evidence shows them to be innocent. Yes lets do that. Hey Lets do that again, Wasnt it fun when we did it to the Duke lacrosse Players. As Nancy Grace would say, Their Guilty Guilty Guilty. Ahh isnt being the 3rd party, we can pass judgments and not hold any responsibility.

Maybe I m reaching. but eh.

Whatever happen to the American Dream? nah why do I ask?

nah no one really cares until it happens to them.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ryZkx7AY2Uw

How about sending a bill to Mexico for when crap like this happens?

They are encouraging their own people to migrate here, right?

yes and we should send Okinawa a big fat check for this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9wMUypR_mY

Yes our soldiers are doing a good job of representing America

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/paperchase/2008/02/japan-says-repeated-crimes-by-us.php

or how about this

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/07/07/africa/web.0707iraq.php


And well whats their excuse? Are they poor? Didnt They volunteer themself?

A lot of people seem to think that immigrants are to blame for making our economy worse. I say nay to that!

Don't blame immigrants for taking over our jobs. Blame the employers who'd rather pay cheap under the table labor instead of paying someone a decent wage. Because alot of the jobs are paid under the table, alot of that money doesn't get taxed, which means less money for our government, ect....I blame the citizens here who just want to save money through illegal means.

Final para., there should be an 'illegal' before immigration in the first sentence.

"But it is a bit more sinister than that."

You know, every time someone uses a phrase like that, the rest of what they say tends to be idiotic. I must make a note to never use it myself for fear of being stupid.

No one ever bitches about Canadian immagrants.

Yeah everyone on the site seems extremely racist, among other issues, save for the people from this site who decided to go post. And on that note I'd just like to point out how much I love the GamePolitics community and props to Twin-Skies and anyone else who went over there and posted (I only briefly read over the first page of comments over there so if i haven't mentioned you, nothin personel.)

@Deus

Like it or not Buddy, your coming off as a person of high ideals, and no experiance.

Lemme break it down for you.

I FUCKING LIVE IN ARIZONA!

I see every god damn day what illegal immigration has done to this state both socially, economicly, and in terms of crime.

Yes, the current immigration system is broken, and YES it does need to be fucking fixed. I'm 100 percent in agreement, but UNTIL THE BORDERS ARE SECURE, nothing else should be given any CONSIDERATION.

DO YOU FUCKING GET THAT?

Right now, arizona has 2 excellent Border patrol guards rotting in JAIL cause imbeciles like you want to fight for the supposed rights of a drug Dealer who broke the law by crossing illegally just so that they can use those illegals for political fucking gain. THATS BULLSHIT!

If you can't understand that, screw you, shut your mouth, and don't open it till you can justify putting the rights of a drug dealer against BORDER SECURITY!.

I won't hold my breath on that one you IDIOT!

Yuki: wtf are your ranting about? I have yet to mention anything about border security or immigrant drug dealers..........

But.... are you saying that just because we have a border issue that we're allowed to strip people of basic human rights? Yes, we have an immigration problem, yes we have border problem, yes we have a problem with illegals committing other crimes, but that in no way gives us license to treat them like animals. I don't care if they're legal, illegal, minor drug offender, or racist violent murderer, they all deserve BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS, and do not deserve to be jailed without due process or drugged against their will.

What I said to make you explode like that, I have no clue. But calm the fuk down... jeez

Why do people think it's ok for people to just ignore laws and cross over as they wish?

Sure - I agree the stupid laws need changed.

But on the other side of the coin....

Right now - these "poor, innocent immigrants" and being screwed by corporations, investors, and other who are MORE THAN HAPPY to exploit the cheap labor - without providing minimum wage, health care, not even workmen's comp if they get injured on the job.

You think our LOVING government is letting this go just out of the kindness of their hearts??? ROFLMFAO. COME ON!!!

But that's ok, huh?

So you people who say illegal immigration is ok - are you making some $$$ from it? The only person I know that's in favor of just leaving the system like it is - IS making tons of money for just these reasons - exploiting them.

What of all the people who have immigrated LEGALLY? I guess it's just 'tough luck' they spent some much time, energy, money, and resources going about it legally, while others just immigrate freely.

It's AMAZING how blind the press gets people. Gets them thinking the government's letting this go just to be 'fair'. FAR FROM IT. But it sure makes the rich happy :)))

Wait... so someone who decides to do something illegal, who is being fed information from their government about how to do these illegal activities, isn't the government promoting illegal immigration?

Why don't we just hand out guns to everyone that's already decided that they want to rob people for a living. Or maybe we can provide the means to get in contact with 4 year olds with negligent parents to all the people who decided to be pedophiles.

Don't get me wrong here i'm for immigration if u wanna come to the u.s. do it the right way not sneaking across our borders. The borders are also a national security threat as well. Terrorists are actually diguising as illegals and are sneaking into our country, our borders need protection more than ever. The 9/11 hijackers did the same thing. Were they stopped when they got caught?...nope. They ended up training for their jihad in Tucson going to flight school that ended up killing thousands of Americans.

Has anyone here ever dealt with an IRB? Humans rights, by their terms, means "benificence" and "non-malfiencence" (I hope I spelled those correctly) - "do good" and "do no harm." So what does that mean?

If there's reasonable expectation of undue physical harm or death, it's a violation. If the individual cannot understand what's happening, it's a violation. If psychological factors are too damaging, it's a violation. If they cannot communicate, it's a violation.

Applying this to deportation:
You can't let them die. You can't hurt them (not saying if they start fighting you have to accept their perpetrations). You CAN restrain them by physical means (appropriate handcuffs at the most), IF NECESSARY. You have to communicate with them effectively. They must be made aware of any and all available options. They have to know and understand all consequences and results.

This doesn't mean they can vote. This doesn't mean they can avoid the system.

As for the game, it has merit. The InfoWars guy isn't prejudice, he's downright discriminatory. Video games CAN be used to teach, but no more than books, videos, or any other form of media. Passing information about the issues we face is part of that. Fearmongering is so much fun.

-Mike

@DeusPayne

Yes, someone who is an "illegal" immigrant is a criminal. Why? Because being here illegally makes them criminals. It is illegal therefore you are committing a crime, and if you commit a crime, what are you? Exactly.

Now that that is out of the way, I have no problem with legal immigration. None whatsoever. As for your comment on our country being based on immigration. Yes, it was. It doesn't mean it always will be. Remember that America is not an old country. It is fairly young compared to the old sods out there, and immigration was great to start the country, but at some point we draw a line on our country being based on immigration and allowing people to continue to immigrate here in droves. It has slowed exponentially. Things change. Deal with it.

@F**ked up

You seem to forget that we are a country, and at that point the United States did not exist yet. New countries grow. Do we still need to grow so badly that we should just let anyone walk into our country without going through the proper legal channel? Some immigrants come over legally you know.

So America wasnt a country yet, Well the roots we all became to believe came before the Country was even started, Hello Can you say Declaration of Independence? If England Didnt treat us harshly and impose such ridiculous taxes would we be the country we are today?

I see your stupidity, The American Dream was pitched to the Japanese, Chinese, and Europeans as a reason to come to America for work. The belief that everyone could become successful no matter who they are, where they were born.

Hell Lets treat the Mexicans like the Chinese when they built the railroads, tell them to do the work, then treat them like shit afterwards. Wait we already do.

Well lets people have justified Jim Crow Laws, people were against suffrage for women, against labor unions, people were for child labor, and etc etc etc.

What are you so worried about hmmm? Like in the Jim Crow laws people were worried about blacks taking over? Are you racist towards Mexicans?

People were scared what the women could do when they voted? Are you scared that is the same with Mexicans?

America is built on immigration, and built on cultures and societies coming together. From the British, to the Irish, to the french, to Germans, to the Spanish, to chinese, to the japanses, to the Koreans, to the Vietnamese, to the Africans, and to the Mexicans. Either we show that America is a great nation that will take care of any and all people or we becomes those that we rebelled against. We become no better than King George, the Nazi's, Soviet Russia, and else where.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door

But then there are too many stupid people out there, caught up in blaming everyone and everything instead of focusing on improving quality of life.

@Tony:

Paranoia on my Gamepolitics? Bleeh...

"All I am doing is showing the hypocrisy of America by quoting what is on the statue of America. It does not in anywhere say anything about Legal Immigrants or imply it anywhere."

It doesn't have to be stated, or even implied. A scrap of common sense tells you that the rights granted to CITIZENS are for citizens only. Contrary to your belief, meandering across a border does not make you a citizen.


Furthermore I can only guess from your post sthat you wouldn't care if I broke into your house. I mean you would treat me as any invited guest now wouldn't you?


So tell me, do you think that people should just be able to walk into the country and that is that? Again you make a mockery of all the people who put their effort into obtaining the American dream by putting all immigrants into the level of border hoppers.

A Scrap of Common Sense? Like the Same Common Sense that Said Saddam Hussein is making weapons of Mass destruction. The same common sense that the Creationist use to say everything was placed her on earth by a divine being? perhaps a Flying Spaghetti monster? The Same Common Sense that says that are gods chosen are White People? That they should rule over the blacks as Slaves? And Kill all the Jews? The same common sense that says every arab is a terrorist?

Break into your house? Ohh Now I see why your so upset. You have and then before that it was the Italians and there organized crimeattached race to crime. I see now, I see your stupidity. Well now I see who is wearing the rose collared glasses.

So what are you afraid of a little competition from Mexicans in persuing the American Dream? Thats why you want it for only Citizens? Hmm I know your actually made about crime seeing it to blame it all on Mexicans. Ok rewind lets go back to the 1970s to the 1990s wasnt it all the black people being blamed? Oh wait and Lets Blame the gays for AIDS? oh wait they are doing that already.

"Why arent the LEGAL Immigrants Invaders." was actually met rephrasing what you wrote. Unless you dont know how a paragraph works. And once again your showing your racism. Attaching Mexicans to crime. And I bet every arab are terrorist? hmm now who was it the last time? oh yeah it was the Blacks, and before that Vietnamese, and and before that it was the Japanese and Germans, and then before that it was the Jews, and so on and so on and so on.

Now I see your problem. You dont have rose colored glasses you have Bigot glasses. Quick to scapegoat. Quick to blame. Doing nothing to improve the situation just throwing stones.

But (and don't be a stupid-ass and fail at analogies again) again, how would you react to someone breaking into your house.

And to compensate from your inability to seperate race from this (just WHOM is the racist?) lets say the person breaking into your house is whiter than Larry Bird.

I don't know how to make this more brief. Again I ask, how would you handle someone breaking into your house?

No, I don't think its too little actually. A trespasser honestly can't expect to be treated fairly in the place they are tresspassing in. As opposed to house guests that is.

"Well what would you do if someone tossed a pop-pop firecracker at you? Is it different that tossing a stick of dynamite?"


Actually no. If I survived the dynamite attack the result would be the same as the firecracker tosser. An ass beating.


So I ask you again, how would you react to someone breaking into your house?


The point that invaders should be treated the same as citizens is an insult to citizens.

@Erik

I think there is a big differece between a house and a country. People maybe don´t have the right to enter your house, but a country is a complex entity and needs people to keep running. And not only USA, bot every country on the planet, needs people from other lands. USA is not Cuba or Imperial China.

Inmigrants are not barbarians planning your destruction. They cross the border illegaly because inmigration laws are unfair and slow and hypocrit.

People don´t have the right to choose in which country want to live (and work) anymore?

They are working, not living for free, exactly.

"but a country is a complex entity and needs people to keep running."


Countries have these people, they are commonly referred to as citizens. Illegal immigrants are not citizens.

"And not only USA, bot every country on the planet, needs people from other lands."

That is where legal immigration comes in.

"Inmigrants are not barbarians planning your destruction. They cross the border illegaly because inmigration laws are unfair and slow and hypocrit."

Tough shit. It still doesn't give anyone the right to invade. Sorry, but a noncitizen cannot honestly expect the rights of citizens. Its only common sense.

"People don´t have the right to choose in which country want to live (and work) anymore?"

Again, legal immigration is the option.

So your solution is to beat someone up? Hmm Not call the police? have them tried as in court? You are sound like a great citizen to me. Taking the law into your own hands. Good Job. Its Martial Law now. I shouldnt feel bad if someone then just beat you up for stepping on their shoe.

I keep pointing out that your analogy of house to country is a poor. There is no point in answering it. Its like asking I saw some men walk out of your house late one night, is your mother a whore? What? I m not saying your mother is a whore I just thinking out loud.

What qualifies to be a citizen? Hmm good question, I dont know the answer to it but there are many americans that I wish were not citizens or are citizens but dont do shit.

"Taking the law into your own hands. Good Job. Its Martial Law now."

Self-Defense is legal.

@Erik:

You have been attacked physically by an inmigrant? I don´t think so.

You can´t attack an inmigrant jumping the border because he is not attacking you in any way.

And now you don´t understand the self-defense concept, either.

"You can´t attack an inmigrant jumping the border because he is not attacking you in any way."

The attacking was the solution noted in regards to having explosives tossed at a person, not in regards to border hopping.

I reiterate, you are both horrible with metaphor.

Actually you dont understand the concept of illegal immigration. Well you just proved it since you are putting a country and a house on the same level. After all fireworks and dynamite are on the same level as well.

Actually you dont understand metaphor or analogy. Your analogy here doesnt taken to account scale. And thats where it fails. And no you dont get my point, I m not talking at the citizen level, I m talking about the human level. No matter where they came from, what race, what gender, they should be treated as human. And why cant we treat them just as much as a citizen of the United States of America? We are supposedly the greatest nation in the world, Why dont we live up to it? is that too much to ask? well apparently it is.

@Erik:
Being “the greatest nation in the world” doesn’t mean you have to act like an a-hole just because you don´t like foreing people and expend tax-money building an useless wall around the country.

Erik says:
1. "I don’t have a problem with foreign people."

2. "its an issue of parasitic invaders."

3. "Using tax money in this argument is rather hilarious though."

Answers:
1. ORLY? I can´t believe...

2. Yeah, they are sucking you blood off, I guess. I guess to get up at 4 am to work on jobs anybody really wants in America qualifies like "being a parasite".
Let me guess, you parents are still supporting you, right?

3. This isn´t a tax issue? So I guess is a race issue, after all.

4. You failed harder.

Ahh but How many illegal Aliens pay a sales tax and other taxes? And how many citizens dont pay taxes? Hell how many companies are not paying taxes because they are paying people under the table? How many Companies figure out that if they setup their business on some remote island just so they can avoid paying taxes?

Heres a shovel, keep digging your hole.

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door

By re-quoting this, we have just show we are no longer the country that we once were. Dont give me no shit about implying that its for citizens or that common sense argument again since you failed to argue back earlier.

And once again your stating IT IS THE LAW AND PEOPLE SHOULD ABIDE BY IT. And I have argued it over and over again. People can create whatever Law they want. As I have said after the Chinese built the railroads, they tried to pass numerous laws to get deported back to china. In this sense the law, was created by the people in power to find away of getting rid of their problem of the Chinese. Just Because it is a law doesnt mean it is always the right thing to do. Hell in your opinion it was the right thing to do to beat someones ass after they threw a pop-pop firework at you. Good Job in following the law there.

You ARE aware that immigration, done correctly is legal right?

"And you are aware that companies that store their money in off shore bank accounts to prevent from paying taxes legal right? Also Paying wages to factory workers in impoverished conditions just to keep wages down low in foreign countries is also legal as well. Ask Disney they know. Ever heard of Haiti?"

And this validates parasitic invaders how?

No, I think illegal immigration is when someone wants all the benefits of citizenry, without all that pesky stuff like jury duty, taxes, and registering with the draft. Hence, parasites. There is no defense for these people legally or morally.

"Parasitic invaders? looks like his true colors, I see your Xenophobia showing."

Are you completely fucking oblivious to legal immigration?

Actually The Governor of California is a Citizen. He got his Citizenship in 1983, Dumbass. Legal Immigrants, you twit, are people on H1B visas, Student Visas, you know the Green Card.

"Stupidity knows no bounds"

You really dont know anything about immigration do you?

He Immigrated to the US, but during his time he probably had to be on a work visa. From their he had to live in the United States for a certain period of time to qualify for his citizenship. So what was he during his time in the US before he became a citizen? Hmm? An illegal Alien?

Hell do you know anything about work visas? By your very definition Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Shakira, and other international Celebrities without Citizenships are well parasites. Those that do not have citizenship to America must be parasites in your books.

Erik said:

No, I think illegal immigration is when someone wants all the benefits of citizenry, without all that pesky stuff like jury duty, taxes, and registering with the draft. Hence, parasites. There is no defense for these people legally or morally.

Well if you didnt know people on work visas, student visas, and etc; cant vote, cant register for the draft, cant server jury duty, and follow different tax codes . So that must make them parasites. Even though they are an legal immigrant, they got the visa to prove it.

Erik said:

A legal immigrant is the Governor of California you twit. Don’t even try to say that legal immigrants can’t do all of those things.

So for the Govinator to be come a US citizen he had to be able to enter this country on some type of Visa. So during his time while filming movies he was a Legal Immigrant without Citizenship so he was getting paid for doing movies, but could not vote, could not serve jury duty, and etc, thus making him a parasite in your book. Using his visa, he spent the time require to become an American Citizen. So that makes him a Legal Immigrant with American Citizen, he now can vote, can go to jury duty, and etc and etc.

Erik said:

If they have work visas then they are not illegal immigrants, stop being a moron.

What I have a problem with is the people that come here with NO work visa, NO student visa, not even a passport, or paperwork of any kind or even the right to step a single foot into this country who expect all the benefits of citizenship while hiding from the responsibilities.

As I state earlier people on Work Visas, student visa, and etc, come to this country and dont have do "Citizen thing" they have the visa and get none of the "responsibilities" as he puts it.


Well those international celebrities, H1B visa and etc, can just work in the US, dont vote, dont register for the draft, just make money from working. Then go back home with the money they made. Yet these people are legal immigrants, they dont have American Citizenship they have their visa though

And yes every American votes, pay taxes, serves Jury Duty, etc etc, [/sarcasm].

Well apparently this wont get through his head.

Also those on student and work visas are not immigrants, they are visiting on a temporary basis.

Erik said:

No, I think illegal immigration is when someone wants all the benefits of citizenry, without all that pesky stuff like jury duty, taxes, and registering with the draft. Hence, parasites. There is no defense for these people legally or morally.

Then he said

F**ked up said:

“Well if you didnt know people on work visas, student visas, and etc; cant vote, cant register for the draft, cant server jury duty, and follow different tax codes . So that must make them parasites. Even though they are an legal immigrant, they got the visa to prove it.”

No, it doesn’t make them parasites, it makes them visitors. Visitors are okay.

Anyone else see the hypocrisy?

Want to know what I believe? I believe that anyone one, no matter where they are born, where they come from, what religion they are, what they skin color, or what how they look should prevent them from succeeding in life. As long as they have the drive to work hard, (I will say this loosely due to the fact that well any thing can be made illegal) follow (just) laws, and improve the quality of life for everyone (Again I say this loosely, with the optimistic thought that every person is doing the right thing), If America is such a great nation and the nation to achieve success, then illegal or not shouldnt matter. We are supposed to be a great country where everyone and anyone can succeed. But apparently not.

As for stealing from the US, maybe you should look at your politicians and wasted government spending than at the immigrants. After all they did lose a Trillion dollars, 315 million dollars for a bridge to nowhere, frivolously lawsuits, wasted money in defense contracts, creating laws that are blatantly unconstitutional and then having to fight them in court, and so on and so on.

But then again lets just scapegoat the Mexicans for our problems. And lets justify are wasting of money to Arab terrorist, because we know if there Arab they are a Terrorist. [/sarcasm]

Oy.

This is a simple problem, if not ideal. We cannot allow anyone and everyone who wishes to enter this country and stay here to do so. We couldn't support that. So we put a system in place and said "this is the process you must go through to become a legal citizen, with everything that entails."

Fine, great. The thing is, you must now enforce that system with EVERYONE. You can't make an exception for one person without compromising the integrity of the system. So yes, by definition, anyone who comes here without the proper paperwork is here illegally, even if he works hard, never commits another crime, etc. The rule is there for a reason, and it needs to be enforced consistently. Let these people go through the proper process for immigrating to this country, at which point they can enjoy all the rights and responsibilities they claim they want by coming here in the first place.

It's pretty simple, really.

"ll you keep doing is repeating the mantra of the “sky is falling.” And you have proven that America is no longer the country it once was. The supposed great nation where anyone and everyone can succeed if they work hard."


1. America has never been a country for illegal immigrants. Before you fire off your lip about the poem on the Statue of Liberty why don't you actually visit the museum on Ellis Island.

2. Work hard? No, you are not talking about working hard, you are talking about parasites wanting HAND OUTS. If they were truly interested in hard work then they would put for the effort to doing things right.


Your argument has no legal basis.

Your argument has no moral basis.

Your argument has no historical basis.


You want us to bend over and give out hand outs to whomever decides to wander across the border. Bullshit. No, I will not stand for such THEFT of our resources.

And, ahem:



EVERYONE THAT COMES HERE STILL CAN WORK HARD AND SUCCEED YOU MORON. ITS CALLED LEGAL FUCKING IMMIGRATION.

YOU MIGHT TALK TO AN AUSTRIAN IMMIGRANT WHO IS A FUCKING GOVERNOR.

@ F***ed Up:

"Then the question is What is the proper process? People say the proper process is what we have now. Other people would argue otherwise."

There are two questions here. The "proper" process is the ideal solution. There is a disagreement over the question of whether or not what we have is ideal. But regardless, the question of what is the LEGAL process is very simple. And ideal or not, the current legal process is what must be adhered to until such time that it changes.

"I addressed each one of your topics earlier and you still have failed to argue a valid point back."


I disagree, it is YOU who have failed to give an argument, or at least an argument not worthy of laughter.

I say "Illegal immigrants are stealing from us"

Your reply is, "Yes, let them."


Bullshit.

Also, go back a couple hundred years and ask the Native Americans just how THEY felt about unwanted immigrants. The second that the Pilgrams landed on Plymouth Rock they should have been tossed right back off.


This used to be a country people could come to work hard and succeed. But thanks to scuzz like you we have become a country of hand outs.


Also, "We make the laws and we can choose what is legal and illegal" is the most idiotic argument you have made. A country can NOT survive if they allow a segment of the populace able to just mooch off the rest of the population. So your plan is to make illegals, legal and just let them live here for free? Bullshit.


Your big plan is to let illegals steal from us. How fucking gullible are you?