Jerry, you make terrorism look so black and white. I bet you could slap together of all the bad things that Americans do, and label the U.S. as terrorists.

Oh look, Bush threaten Canada into war.
Oh look, Bush has invaded our country.
Oh look, Bush attack areas with no proper reason, killing thousands of innocent people.
Oh look, Bush is after our oil.
Oh look, Bush's people are making video games about killing us and calling us terrorist.
etc.

Wow, with a rep like that, you could say that Bush is a terrorist leader. With people supporting the Iraq war, it makes them look like members of the terrorist group. But that isn't the case. Just because Bush showed us the worst of Iraq doesn't make them terrorists.

A person spoke to Americans saying "Could I tell my side of the story?" but there have people saying "No, you are our enemy, was won't listen to you. You are a terrorist". So he replies, "Then I would get my message across through a game mod". The people say "NO! you are terrorist. You are making propaganda. We shell stop you"

Jerry, I bet you could make the table turned and start debunking my points one-by-one. When I read some of you early posts, I assumed that you were just listening to the media, and I was going to start making jokes about what if everything the media say was true. But I read some quotes you made that needed some deep research.

I still don't 100% agree with you, but I now don't take you as a media sponge. Calling us all idiots just seems ignorant considering that this website believes that everyone should have the freedom of speech.

@EZK

I doubt there is anything new in this. Lets be realistic the mantra has been "Bush Lied, People Died" "No Blood for Oil" "Kucinich in '08" for the last couple years. This guy wanted to make a sensationalists game, the CR walked right into his hands. Both parties will get their 15 and the show will go on.

Did none of you read the article? He didn't create Night of Bush Capturing, radical Jihadists did by modding Quest for Saddam. Then Bilal in turn modded Night of Bush Capturing to personalize it to his own story. That is the "art" of it.

@Saladin

I don't think Every Muslims follows it to the letter, because if they did they would all be killing people. I don't want you to think that I'm trying to be jackass. Just being strait with you, if they followed the qur'an to the letter, they would be killing people, thats all. And there are many more versus like that in the qur'an that I can show. But its your book so Ill let you look for it. Unless you ask me, if you ask me Ill show you them, save you some time. If not then I won't.

Also, I checked the numbers, and I need to clarify it. The religion its self led to 10 million killings of the Buddhists. What I mean by that is, the Muslims did it in the name of Allah, in the name of there religion. Mohammad led 27 invasions and killed one million people. Just wanted to clear that up.

Just to clarify, in the above post I was not stating that Bilal was a terrorist, or even that he was claiming to be one. I was making a point as to what possible message could be derived from "personalizing" a terrorist propoganda game. I know how specific you have to be here.

2 Chronicles 15:13

That was when the king started removing more idols. Then bound the people to an oath to seek the Lord. All who did not obey the covenant where to be executed.

That covenant was only for Israel, and we are no longer under that covenant anymore. Show me where Jesus said to kill everyone. Show me where Jesus led 27 invasions. Show me where Jesus killed 1 million people.

Mohammad wrote the Qur'an and waged war! GET IT NOW?

Notice, when I brought up the qur'an, I used facts? I did not take it out of context like you did with the Bible.

As for the next verse, I wont even bother to look it up because you did not even bother to research the first one. So what would be the point? Try to get it right next time.

The people burning flags are not blowing them selves up...as far as I know. And last time I checked, the US was free, maybe not? Must have missed your point there.

I was waiting for you to say hate-mongering. After all, I'm only using facts, and I live in reality, I'm such a hate-monger.

@jerry,

www dot venganza dot org is the home of the Church of the Spagetti Monstor.
Feel free to look around, you may find it has as much realism as your version of a good faith, but without the hatefilled bile.

Funny how the world turns, from 'Christian' witchhunts and 'no one expects the spanish inquisition' to Bushtian Muslimhunts and 'no one expects Homeland Security.
a terrible analogy, i know, but i'm only on my 2nd cup of coffee.

As for the actual topic, its nice to see open discussions on Freedom of Speech on our chosen media. =:)

Just read that RPI will not allow the exhibition on campus. It has been moved to downton Troy. Ok....Shirley, I think you are intelligent again. Good choice.

Curious...Looks like an interesting way of broadcasting a political idea. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would quite like to play that.

Oh, and shut up College Republicans.

Well, without knowing the exact content of the game, it's hard to judge whether he really meant to make a point or is just looking for shock value to gain recognition. I really think there is a serious need for more games that show other points of view in the world, too many Americans can only see the world through CNN or Fox News goggles. Pull up the same international news story on CNN and BBC, and you'll know what I'm talking about.

I think, in part, it a case of holding up a mirror, and a lot of people being worried what they might see.

Well, he wants to create dialogue about the war. It seems that the guy's family has been killed in Iraq, and his previous one is cast from the same sort of mold. (referring to his paitball online game)
Dissenting opinion? You bet.
However, as a rule I find politically inspired art/music a terrible bore. I'm kind of an aesthetic.

You can bet that Fox News will be mentioning this soon as an act of "treason" and use their panel of "intellectual guests" to back them up. And once again great job missing the point and making the issue one-sided guys. *Claps*

Ah, the double edge sword of 'freedom'.
Yup, I have freedom to play COD4, Thompson has freedom to lie his arse off, and Bilal has the freedom to condemn the Iraqi war via his chosen media of gaming.
Well if we just stop this 'freedom' thing we can ban that game... woohoo.

DarrellBT -- "(no offence to muslims who read this blog regarding the “sand n*****, but that is definitely how neocons think)"

Um, actually, no it isn't how the neocons think. But, hey, let's talk about a story about misguided idiocy with even more misguided idiocy!

I haven't seen the "art" piece in question, so I'm not going to judge. I'll just point out how ironic it is that if the "artist" had done a piece like this about Saddam Hussein in Iraq, he'd most likely have been taken out and tortured and executed.

I just want to state up front that the ideals of the CRs don't reflect the opinions held by the vast majority of RPI students. From my time at RPI, I can say confidently that most RPI students are tolerant and thoughtful and I don't want people to get the impression that most RPI students think like the CRs do.

That all being said, I am not at all surprised the CR would say something like this. I wasn't a member of either organization, but I knew people in both the CR and CD (College Democrats). The CRs tried to make a major fuss out of any event on campus that was even mildly controversial, mostly so someone would would actually pay attention to them. It is certainly not surprising that they would jump all over this. However, as I said before, most students don't share the opinions of the CRs, so take these comments only as a reflection of a small group of individuals at RPI.

@Dog Welder

I would actually like to know what they think. But that is impossible because I can't read minds. Whatever they think is has to be something crazy and not too far off from the offensive remarks. Ann Coulter ring a bell?

@ Derek

Cthulhu for prez, '08!

Derek Says:
...I really am concerned how this person got into RPI, as I purposefully went here to get away from the average moron.

that made me laugh.
but he is a HP Lovecraft fan so perhaps we can forgive his small mind.
( ...RPI that support Cthulhu than any part of the Republican party. )

Dog Welder; I agree with your observation, but doesn't that prove the point that in the US you have the freedom to have a politically sensitive opinion and the means to express it.

Jabrwock; Nice post. Its never simple, and one persons terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. (Being a Brit who lived during the IRA bombings)
The Fear campaign promoted by the US' current administration is creating a very dangerous Muslimphobia that could push fragile people to extremes. Perhaps this game can be a conduit creating a common ground to discuss the topic without irrational fear.

DogWelder wrote:

DarrellBT — “(no offence to muslims who read this blog regarding the “sand n*****, but that is definitely how neocons think)”

"Um, actually, no it isn’t how the neocons think."

Um, actually it is. See, I used to be a neocon - I used to think like that all the time.

I'm at RPI and I think this sort of thing is going to be interesting to attend. I plan on going to when he speaks Wednesday if I am not too busy.

What worries me about this CR statement is it has hints of the entire 'College does something unpatriotic, we should withhold funding!' mantra that I'm hearing come from some republican groups lately.

Heh. Actually, looking at their site, these people are a joke anyway.

OMG!! SADDAM HAD WMD!!! HERE IS THE PROOF!!!! and then rambling after rambling on liberals.

So in summary, thier opinion on this game is pretty meaningless. I would not call these people the future political leaders, more people you expect to see in rally crowd shots.

To the republicans bitching about this: Tough shit. Freedom of speech cuts both ways.

@DarrelBT
I really hope you notice the epic irony in your decrying the marginalization and stereotyping of one group (muslims) by marginalizing and stereotyping another (neocons)... just saying.

@Baron Saturday
I read the article, and that makes Bilal's actions all the more dangerous (to himself). He took terrorist propoganda, and "personalized it" with his own face. It doesn't take much to fuel the ire of the US Government. They could definitely claim this as a serious threat, and take action against Bilal. Hell, they detained and questioned a man in my county just for organizing a protest that involved standing in front of an Army recruitment office. I can only imagine what they might do to Bilal.

Additionally, I don't see how it can be called "art" to paste your face/name on someone else's work. That's the lazy, jackass form of art.

Finally, I'd like to clarify my previous post. I said it sounded more like Bush hating than a serious form of protest, because of the nature of the game. How much of the game actually highlights the atrocities of the war? How is the story relayed to the player? If the story of familial revenge is just told in text between levels, and the gameplay is just run-and-gun (which from a video I watched, that seems to be the case), then it isn't really protesting anything. Rather it is emphasizing the violence, not the message.

Jesus was a victim of censorship too.

Honestly republicans, do you need someone to reinterpret the constitution for you? I know that the First Amendment his a hard one to live by, but that's why the founding fathers made it THE FIRST ONE. They were banking on the fact that their descendants weren't going to be a bunch of wimps who cried everytime an opposite viewpoint was expressed.

I say let 'em have their say, they have the right. But of course, if another students wants to showcase a game recreating the hunt Hussein, ignoring any collateral casualties along the way (read: killing every arab in sight), that's their right too. I wouldn't call it tasteful, but if you allow one, you have to allow the other. And yes, I vote republican. For some of us Republican doesn't mean "Bush = God", but rather "government, get the hell out of my life".

I'm surprised how many people on here are that stupid and believe the mod guy. Some how I fail to see how becoming a suicide-bomber, joining Al Qaeda, and trying to kill bush, is going to bring attention to the vulnerability of iraq civilians. What do they want us to do? feel bad for them because there killing innocent people?

If anyone thinks this is art (a few do), then so is a picture of a REAL LIFE body blown a part from a suicide bomber. Please put that up on your wall, it will make for good conversation about your mental disorder.

And we have our first College Republican. Welcome Jerry. Glad to have you on the site.

Now if you could leave your bigotry with the doorman we can have a great conversation.

The game is about a man who's brother, who is not a soldier or terrorist, is killed by American soldiers and out of his dispar decides to seek revenge by joining Al'Queda.

I have not played the game, but am willing to give it a try.

It would be nice if everything was black and white, but there is a whole spectrum of color out there to enjoy and discuss.

If you don't like all this you can kindly go back to Pleasantville.

Sounds like a decent

@spartan and random people on here.


Things are a little different when your FIGHTING A WAR. You see, if you want to WIN a war. You don't let the enemy spread there propaganda in your own freaking country. Did you know that a 15 year old girl put a picture of bush on myspace and then said she hopes he dies. Or something to that extent. Know what happened next? secret service came and interrogated her. Just like they should of.

After all, its there freaking job, they don't know if the person is who they said they are. They have to peruse every possible threat. But why the hell does this guy get a free ride? Because of of sick people like the ACLU that will sue the government of a hate crime if they asked him a freaking question. thats why.

But no no, the 15 year old girl is fine, question her. Just don't question people who are making mods about blowing people up and killing Bush. Because those people are artists, and they have the right to want to kill our President, But American citizens, like the 15 year old girl, the people who where born here, they can't hate the President. But the guy that was born in Iraq, and makes a mod where you kill the President, thats fine.

I'm sick of all these idiots!

@ Jerry

I can see propaganda. I recognize it. Butthat does not mean I will not give it a look. I feel I am actually a better person because I try to look at the bigger picture instead of just small parts of it.

It also helps to put yourself in the shoes of other people. Do you know how it feels to have you brother killed by people who are supposed to be protecting you? I certainly don't. I hope I don't have to feel that in real life. But if someone were to convey that feeling to me in a way that actually helped me know how it feels, than I can learn from it.

I certainly don't condone terrorism nor do I condone threatening the President of the US. But I am more than willing to learn how differnet people feel about this war and the President.

Now you mentioned that 15 year old girl. I am not familiar with that story. The ACLU is all over the media and probably saw it. But I am not familiar with it.

I am glad to see that bigotry is alive in the US. I am glad to see that so many people are closed minded toward anything going on in the world that doesn't support their own biased opinions.

I bet you are completely agianst Obama because he is a Muslim that will open up our borders and let Al'Queda march in and take over the US.

@DarrelBT: Well, they're still into privitization of stuff that shouldn't be and want less government control over where it SHOULD be(Businesses, labor, etc.) while they dream about laws persecuting dissenters and godless sodomites. HEIL LOL!

Jerry: That's true! Let's take a look at some of the information (as represented, at least, by the creator or whoever wrote the biography linked in the article):

"After learning of the real-life death of his brother in the war, he is recruited by Al Qaeda to join the hunt for Bush. This work is meant to bring attention to the vulnerability of Iraqi civilians to the travesties of the current war and racist generalizations and stereotypes as exhibited in games such as Quest for Saddam; along with vulnerability to recruitment by violent groups like Al Qaeda because of the U.S.’s failed strategy in securing Iraq. The work also aims to shed light on groups that traffic in crass and hateful stereotypes of Arab culture with games like Quest for Saddam and other media."

That's about all I know about the game (again, assuming that it's even being portrayed faithfully in the text). So we have a setup where the protagonist is drafted to be a suicide bomber. The text doesn't mention anything about murdering a political figure, or whether the main character even goes through with any murder. The fact that the text raises the point of "vulnerability to recruitment by violent groups like Al Qaeda" suggests that the creators take a dim view of murderous acts and are interested in exploring the causes that drive people to commit them. There have been films exploring the psychology and sociopolitical factors that create people who blow themselves up to murder others; I don't see why there shouldn't be games as well.

Thank you for inspiring me to learn more about the game! I kinda want to play it now.

@Shih Tzu

Just let me make sure I got this right. In order to stop the stereotypes of all Muslims are terrorists, or something like that. The guy becomes one( in the game I mean). Just making sure I got this one right. On second thought, is he going after other stereotypes? Seriously, is he? What the heck?

I fail to see how a game about killing bush, is going to help anything. But thats just me I guess.

I find it interesting that most commentors have put this into "republican's don't respect the freedom of speech!" while the article doesn't go this path at all; instead framing it in the decades long battle of "This is reprehensible; why is the government funding it?"

Stereo-typing is fun to watch, and it cuts both ways.

@E. Zachary Knight

I'm sorry, but I can't talk to you can more. It's not worth it. Its a waste of time. So ill leave it at this. Why don't you do some research on Saddam. Then use logic, and figure it out for your self. I'm not going to spell everything out for you.

@ Jerry

The fact that you need to point out the Quran which I presume you think EVERY SINGLE muslim follows to the letter is all the information about you that I need. Which is what I'd LIKE to say, but again, that's what we call "Stereotyping". I'll leave what I believe to be your flawed interpretation up to you.

As for your position on the Quran, you provided good lines. I appreciate that you looked for actual Quran verses, and I feel that I'll have to look up a few more myself. However, times have changed the ways we think. There are plenty of innacuracies and fables in Holy Books around the world. Coincidentally, I seriously doubt that Muhammad killed 10 million+ Buddhists. That's a pretty round number. As for the rest of the killings, while I look to the Quran, it doesn't RULE my life and likewise I can look at any actions Muhammad made in both postives and negatives.

WHEN the writings were created should be a pretty good example of how the passages affect modern times. I'm sure anyboy posting here can cite examples of verses which are flawed or simply don't apply this day in age. I for one don't follow the Quran to the letter. Also, it doesn't mean I'll sit here and pretend generalization of a few Quran verses overule all the other achievements and mindset of my people.

A few lines don't support the stereotyping of my entire people. Sorry, but that's ridiculous.

I have the feeling we're both getting off the wrong foot here, and truthfully, I don't think everything your saying is wrong. But the sterotyping comment, well....... I just don't agree.

@ Jerry

Saddam? Seriously? Your using SADDAM as the prominent Arab example? Good GOD man. I'm not sure if I'm READY for THAT conversation.

We're seriously veering off the topic in EPIC fashion.

@ Everyone else

I missed the part where we talked about the MOD. Remember that?

Look, this game is alright, I mean this is *all I do in Call of Duty 4.*
OpFor, AK-47, 3Xfrags, Sonic Boom, Martyrdom.

I scream "ALLAAAAHU ACKBAR" down the hall at everyone else on the LAN just before I overcook my third grenade. If I can do that, we can have a game like this.

Gee, fantastic idea. Let's point out the problems of the common Iraqi civilian by creating an Al Qaeda suicide bombing simulator! No siree, that won't alienate and offend the people we're trying to educate about our perspective, not at all.

E. Zachary Knight wrote:
"And Bilal’s Mod of Night of Bush Capturing [...] is a political opinion piece."

See, this is where I have trouble with this whole thing. Is the mod really a "political opinion piece," or "art"? If it is, what is Bilal saying, and how is he saying it? What is the game's context, how does it convey its message?

Or is it just some angry college student sticking their face on a controversial piece of software and saying, "I'm making a statement." (because saying it makes it true, right?)

The original Night of Bush Capturing is a run-and-gun where you (a terrorist) kill American troops for 6 levels on the way to attack Bush. Now Bilal inserted himself into the game in the form of a mod. So how is this shining light on the atrocities of the Iraqi war? No offense, but this has about as much thought behind it as I would expect from a middle-school kid asked to make a political statement.

I'm just saying this. If "Night of Bush Capturing" is a piece of terrorist propoganda, "personalizing it" doesn't really change that. If Bilal thought it did, then he really didn't put a lot of thought into it.

Why are you people arguing with Jerry the Bush-worshipper? You can't really argue with 20%ers, they're too ignorant to see the other side of any of their views and think if you happen to be a democrat or a muslim, that you're EVIL. Hell, he's even quoting Ann Coulter for crying out loud.

Granted he hasn't admitted he does yet, but one of my quotes seems to fit him quite well:

There's no worship like Bush worship; its a special kind of stupid.

Jerry said:

"I don’t think Every Muslims follows it to the letter, because if they did they would all be killing people. I don’t want you to think that I’m trying to be jackass. Just being strait with you, if they followed the qur’an to the letter, they would be killing people, thats all. "

I hate to tell you Jerry, but same goes for christians. 2 Chronicles 15:13 for example. There are numerous passages in the bible for its followers to kill others. I guess Deuteronomy 13:13-19 justifies the Iraq war doesn't it?

O wow, I tried to stay a way but I could not.

@Rukon Zappa

First of all, I'm quoting Michael savage. Second of all, I can't stand bush. Although I have a feeling we both have very,very, different reasons for this.

@KayleL

You can have freedom of speech, I did not say you could not. But that does not mean your not an idiot. Idiots can say things to you know.

And I am so confused by you, really I am. I can't find your point. This is the 3rd time I writing this, because you seem to be saying two different things. What you wrote, makes it sound like I think Bush and and people who support the war are terrorists, or something like that. Then you make up a conversation between the mod guy and everyone else. Then I get more confused because you tell me I can debunk your points. Which means that you already agree you are wrong. So I just don't know what the heck your saying.

I don't think Bush is a terrorist, or the people that support the war, if that was what you where saying.

@Saladin

You need Jesus man. He died on the cross for you, for your sins. I know you don't believe, but I just wanted to tell you that. The qur'an is not a book of peace. Its a book of war, thats why we are in this mess to day. and if anyone bashes the Bible or God, I will correct you and make you look very, very, stupid. Fair warning.

@ Are'el

So Political opinion pieces cannot be art?

What I am getting at is that you nor Jerry has played this game nor have you seen it in action. So how can you claim that it is terrorist propaganda?

Of course I have not played it nor seen it in action, so I don't know either. But that does not me I can't give it a shadow of a doubt.

@ Jerry

O wow, I tried to stay a way but I could not.

That is because you are bigoted idiot and don't know when to quit.

@E. Zachary Knight


Quiting is for losers.

:)

I never said you would bash it. I just asked everyone not to, because most of the time when I bring up the Bible thats what happens. I fail to see how you have the strength to save your self. Maybe you could elaborate on what you mean by that.

Your book is a book of war, don't get mad at the truth. I already showed you this in the versus I posted earlier from the qur'an. And you say, oh, well that was then this is now. Guess what? The Muslims chant death to America to day. They go out and blow them selves up for Allah, to day. They want to destroy Israel to day. They want everyone to become a Muslim to day. If you want to sit there and say. Its a book of peace, even though it tells you to kill a Muslim if he leaves the faith. How is this peaceful.

O well that was then this is now right? thats your answer. Bad answer. Not an answer at all in fact. It's an excuse.

@ Are'el

Ah, sorry sorry. It's my nature to roll my eyes at bigots. I'll try to ignore it though. He's pretty much down to using a religious rant to give credence to his ridiculous claims. So, in a sense, it really IS over now.

@ Jerry

Well, to clarify what I said, I can apply medical aid to myself and others. I've managed to convince myself to stay off drugs & alcohol. I've managed to convince myself not to do any ridiculous "jackass" style stunts that result in my head banging against a car or concrete wall. Long story short, I have the sense of mind to not do anything stupid. To follow basic tenets of my own life and instincts that insure I try to help others and more or less stay out of trouble.

THAT'S what I mean Jerry. Hope that clarifies for you. I never needed, nor will I ever need Jesus to save me. I can save myself just fine.

Jerry, I'm starting to think you just glance over the important parts of my posts and sort of "Fox News" the rest of it. Again, I make no excuses for extremists. But the vast majority of my people just want to be left the hell alone. So what if a crowd of people hate America? All sorts of people have disagreements with the U.S. You've got Americans right here burning flags! Your argument is flawed. And you keep saying "they". What is UP with that?

dj posted :

"I hate to tell you Jerry, but same goes for christians. 2 Chronicles 15:13 for example. There are numerous passages in the bible for its followers to kill others. I guess Deuteronomy 13:13-19 justifies the Iraq war doesn’t it?"

I mean, the writing's on the wall. You tell me about the Quran being a book of war and the Bible really has plenty of the same. Isn't that more or less a two-faced opinion? Seems like a double-standard here?

"THESE PEOPLE ATTACK THE MOST FREE COUNTRY ON EARTH."

C'mon Jerry. You already KNOW what this country was built on. You ALREADY know who it was taken from in order to be built. Who are you kidding here?

This was supposed to be about a mod. Instead, you've trivialized it with bad reasoning and hate-mongering.

@Jerry

Don't confuse the way you percieve the Koran with the way Muslims may percieve the same book.

He has every right to express his views in any non-violent manner he so chooses and the campus republicans have every right to bitch and moan about the evils his speech brings...

1.It is described as an Al Qaeda propaganda video game, is that because it looks like one or is there some actual affiliation with Al Qaeda?

I haven't seen the content but depending on how the mission to kill/kidnap Bush is presented the game may be crossing a line from speech to incitement to violence or it could be harmless free speech... I would really like to see the content so this point would be clarified...
2.ANYONE KNOW WHERE I COULD GET A COPY?

"Bilal’s appearance is part of a program funded by a New York State grant"
3. At this time my only concern is that from my understanding the state is technically sponsoring a propaganda/recruitment tool for terrorists... if I misunderstood that point can someone clarify what program and how it is sponsoring his appearance.

@Saladin
You were born in Kuwait and grew up in US and yet you are a citizen of a nation which has never existed and is related to neither???(it should but thats a different issue)
How exactly does that work???

I agree with pretty much everything that you say though...

As for the dirty looks and a “terrorist” tripe after 9/11... I was in New York on 9/11 and noticed fireworks being shot out of neighborhoods with population being mostly of a certain religion and celebration mobs walking down the streets only to be broken up by fire departments hosing them...(if you didn't live in or near NY city then info of these things happening was supressed by most media outlets and government...)
>so I am sorry that you got dirty looks, but they were a natural human response to the events...
Just be glad that in this country other 'natural human responses' are against the law and are not encouraged by the government... The country I was born in, had a different view on such things...

@Jerry
"Show me where Jesus said to kill everyone. Show me where Jesus led 27 invasions. Show me where Jesus killed 1 million people."

>Please don't start comparing how nice religions are, because Christianity's history reads like the bloodiest and most gruesome horror story ever created... There is nothing among works of fiction that even comes close...

@Jerry
"THESE PEOPLE ATTACK THE MOST FREE COUNTRY ON EARTH."
The US is not the most free country on earth... The most free country on earth is one without laws and is any nation in a state of anarchy... In fact by that definition, you might have been talking about Iraq...

Now certainly in this nation people(citizens) have a lot more rights then in most if not all other nations...

By the way I do understand what you mean, but I am not certain the US is the most free country on earth even by the definition that you are using...


@Jerry
"THESE PEOPLE ATTACK THE MOST FREE COUNTRY ON EARTH. How are they freedom fighters?"
Oh and please remember that our government regarded Osama as a freedom fighter just a few decades ago, you know, when they trained him... Unfortunately when they win, freedom fighters tend to turn into dictators or terrorists...

The way I see it is this, once you start targeting civilians you are no longer a freedom fighter... You are a murderous terrorist. The only legal targets are military ones. If you place military targets in a place where civilians are then you are also a terrorist...

Just because they attacked US doesn't make them terrorists, but because they attacked civilian targets when they attacked us, they are terrorists.

I AM ASSUMING THAT WHEN YOU SAY 'THESE PEOPLE' YOU MEAN THE TERRORISTS which would be fine.
!IF! HOWEVER BY 'THESE PEOPLE' YOU MEAN -MUSLIMS- THEN PLEASE TELL ME SO I COULD TELL YOU TO GO BACK TO THE CABIN IN THE WOODS YOU CRAWLED OUT OF... AND ASK YOU IF YOU ARE LATE TO A CLAN MEETING...

@Saladin
"C’mon Jerry. You already KNOW what this country was built on. You ALREADY know who it was taken from in order to be built. Who are you kidding here?"

Actually from my understanding this country wasn't 'taken' from anyone. The natives had no concept of ownership and thus did not own the land. Since the land didn't belong to anyone the settlers claimed it...

And if you are refering to the horrible way that the native americans were treated, well they were actually treated much better than the way that Europeans treated each other in those days...(they massacred each other left and right...why do you think so many wanted to leave???)
Though this was probably due to the fact that most actually died from disease...
It was after the initial settling and claiming that the crimes against the native Americans where commited...

But it certainly wasn't taken from anyone since there was no nation here and the country wasn't built on that either...

Ahh, the religion thing... Nothing like a heated & venomous argument over something that is absolutely impossible to know the answer to.

Are Wookies better than Klingons?
NO! AND I'LL KILL YOU IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE!

The majority opinion that I've heard over the years is that the stories in the bible were supposed to be metaphors, not instructions. Its not unreasonable to assume that the same is true for all allegedly holy books, with the obvious exception of scientology which is simply outright bullshit. If there's going to be a war against any religion it should be that freakshow!

If the stories resonate with your internal moral code then fine, be that way and good luck to you. The system of Virtues from Ultima IV & onwards strikes me as the most balanced and rational ethical code I've ever encountered. Hmm, does that make richard garriott my god?

As with all things, tyranny of the mind only happens when you fail to convince somone of your opinion through either exampe or reasoned debate & start trying to force it. The idea of even arguing over which giant magic pixie has the prettiest wings or even worse killing people over it is a shining example of human passions overruling intelligence and to be perfectly honest, I think thats the single biggest thing holding the species back.

Besides, anyone who's finished Assassin's Creed knows that all religion is false, it was just mass manipulation of the mind caused by the Piece Of Eden!

@Aliasalpha

Well, Lord British did say he'll be "ascending" to beyond the heavens this October '08, didn't he?

@Jerry
The Muslims do have Jesus. But they also had Muhammed too.

And if you think this game is a useless bit of trype, you're wrong. Elements of this game can be used in the war against terror. You just have to know how to listen.

For instance, if our goal is to end terrorism and extremism, we need to look at the causes. The idea of "Just blow them up" doesn't work, even if you commit genocide. The best way to fight an enemy is to understand it. This game offers insight to some of the reasons why normals mebers of islamic society join extremists. If those issues were removed, we remove the terrorist recruitment base.

That's why the first amendment is so important. It helps us to gain a better understanding of the situation so we don't keep repeating the same failed policies.

I jsut have comment for now:

America's Army

And a question:

Why do you think the US army made this game ?

Ok, two questions:

Think about how middle-eastern people are desribed in US (or western) games?

Amen

I go to RPI and I'm disgusted I have to pay for this event. I can appreciate art and I can appreciate someone wanting to express their opinion. If RPI is going to spend money on flying this guy here from Chicago, and paying for his hotel room, meals, transportation, and possibly an honorarium, they should at least ask the students if we want to hear him speak. Guaranteed, the average RPI student wouldn't care enough to show up to this event, so West Hall Auditorium is going to be relatively empty. If it isn't, I'm willing to bet the fact that the College Republicans brought this event to light has generated more interest in it. So, Wyvern (first post), I wouldn't be telling the College Republicans at RPI to shut up. They did exactly what Bilal wanted them to do--helped get people talking about this game. Bilal knows it's going to generate controversy...so he shouldn't mind the College Republicans' response, be it negative or not. Thank them for actually paying attention.

And yes, we have packed West Hall Auditorium by planning an event RPI students were actually interested in, because they were involved in the decision-making process. Not to date myself or anything, but when the MythBusters came to speak at RPI, the free tickets to get into this event were depleted within a day or two, and the auditorium was packed. That says A LOT about the popularity of the event if you know anything about RPI students.

I wouldn't even call this game Bilal is unveiling on my campus at this very moment "art." I am an artist, myself, and the fact that he copied the game from a terrorist organization, which copied it from an 18-year-old Computer Science major in the USA, does not constitute art in my book. This just tells me that it was a convenient platform for Bilal not to just generate controversy, but to further a personal agenda. Then again, I question some of the other "art" Bilal has done, like the paintball project (google it if you don't know what I'm talking about). He can't sleep at night--or ever--without taking medication first. That's both sad and sick. It sounds like Bilal might have a troubled existence he should address, especially if he's, albeit indirectly, causing himself physical harm, then masking this as a form of art (he calls it "video art").

Bottom-line from an RPI student's perspective: I don't want my tuition money--and I pay a lot--going toward events like this, if only because there was a severe lack of student input involved with the selection of this event.

When I was in school there were many events I did not want my student money going towards like the campus outreach clubs (cults to me) and other strange group activities. The same can be said for most of my tax dollars at all levels of government. However that is one of the costs of a pluralistic society. People simply have to deal with it.

As long as the money being spent does not violate the rules of the game for all. The people that take the time and organize and put forth the effort to do things should have the opportunity to express themselves. So I say more power to them. Even if I hate what they stand for. If it really bothers me that much I will organize something in opposition to them.

Live and let live truly works as a social concept. More people should try it sometime.

@Shady8X

"Actually from my understanding this country wasn’t ‘taken’ from anyone. The natives had no concept of ownership and thus did not own the land. Since the land didn’t belong to anyone the settlers claimed it…"

That's a common myth. Native Americans ad concepts of personal property, but since their method for gathering food was different from Europeans' extensive agriculture, they didn't view land ownership as important as the Europeans did. Here's a link that you can see about it: http://www.perc.org/perc.php?id=802

Also, there were a lot of cases where Europeans would talk to a Native American tribe and try to buy the land of another tribe, thinking they were the same group. Many times, the two tribes would be at war, so the tribe negotiated with would accept. I mean, if someone came up to you and said 'hey, we'll give you something if you let us have your enemies' land and fight them if they don't give it to us", most people will do that.

Also, the land to Native Americans was essential to many pars of their culture. Religious acts would often deal with visiting a certain area of the land and experiencing it after being put in a certain mindset, through natural hallucinogens or sweat lodges, or going through a ritual. When the land was drastically changed, it would be like somebody burning all the Bibles on the planet.

Anyway, back on topic.

Without playing the game, I think it's hard to say if it is propaganda or not. It sounds like the focus of the storyline is to show how everyday people become members of Al Queda and how the effects of invasion of Iraq contribute to this happening. I think he has all rights to make it, and based on his reputation and the school's reputation, I am inclined to think that it isn't propaganda, but I can't know for certain with out playing it.

Considering RPI is a majority right-wing school (at least when I was enrolled) I'm not at all surprised at this disgusting exhibit of political censorship. "Why not change the world," what a joke.

This game further promote stereotypes about muslims. Stupid RPI. You won't get another penny from me in your fundraising efforts. Would President Shirley Jackson (RPI) allow a speaker whose game is entitled "How to kill Shirley Jackson"? Its just freedom of speech, right Shirley? Shame on you. I used to think you were intelligent.

I am outraged and appalled by Bilal's "video game". My brother in law played football for RPI and I was considering it myself for graduate school. I will not support RPI or the city of Troy until the exhibit is removed. This is the kind of garbage that is happening on our watch. We need to put an end to this nonsense. Bilal should be deported immediately. He is coward that hides behind freedom of speech. I should make a video game "The night of Bilal's capturing". In the game, you are an FBI who is looking for Bilal. When you find him, you escort him on a plane to Gitmo Bay. You then have to use a series of "tactics" to withdraw information from Bilal. If you use the right tactics, Bilal is deported and he gives you the exact location of Bin Laden. Note---Bilal is not killed in the game, I will not stoop to his low level.