German Authorities Want Retail Game Demos Turned Off During School Hours

German Authorities Want Retail Game Demos Turned Off During School Hours

April 13, 2008
Deutsche Welle reports that German officials may ask retailers to switch off game console displays during school hours.

Authorities there are concerned that the game demos are attracting truant students:
The newspaper Welt am Sonntag quoted Udo Nagel (left), state interior minister of Hamburg, as saying the idea was among 22 recommendations on fighting juvenile delinquency prepared ahead of a meeting of state interior ministers this week.

"Truancy can be the beginning of a criminal career and that's why we have to intervene," said Nagel. "Not every truant becomes criminal, but criminals skipped school at one time or another."

German interior ministers will discuss the proposals, including the game demo restriction, at a conference later this month in Brandenburg.

Comments

That's called bolting the stable door after the horse has gone.
What about adults who want to try demo kiosks during the day? Oh, thats right- only children play games. Germany = teh genius.
I see kids cutting school to go to the arcade as a paralell issue. Of course, closing down arcades during school hours would just piss a lot of people off. Instead, the arcade owner has been asked to be vigilant about kids skipping school and he does his part by kicking out anybody in the arcade during school hours that's under 16. On a similar anti truancy note I've seen stores deny service to youths under 16, and I've even been carded at the mall. It helps a lot to keep the truancy issues out of commercial areas.

But asking stores to shut down thier displays is st00pid.
Criminals breathed at one time or another too....

Like seriously, if kids are skipping school, why would they be playing game demos for hours at a time? Skipping school is either to cause mischief or to have fun, neither of which can be attained by playing a game demo at a store.

But otherwise, I don't know what kinds of rights retail stores in Deutschland have, so it's an iffy thing in the rights point of view
Demos are now available over the internet. Why don't we just shut that off, too?
Are tey going to include turning off porn, music, all game related sites, My Space, Facebook, iTunes....You get the idea. Why just bash games?

Oh, thats right, its the hip, popular thing to do at the moment. It doesn't have to make a lick of sense. What was I thinking.
Dang typos.

Also:

Are they also going to look at reasons why kids maybe skipping school to begin with and try and fix those issues or are they just in the "cart before the horse" mentality?
I used to ditch class to do homework for other classes. Maybe we should just ban school! :-P

But anyone who's ditching class to hang out at EB and play demos deserves to fail out and become a bum.
"The newspaper Welt am Sonntag quoted Udo Nagel (left), state interior minister of Hamburg, as saying the idea was among 22 recommendations on fighting juvenile delinquency prepared ahead of a meeting of state interior ministers this week."

Am I the only one here that thinks the line being drawn between game demos and truancy is a rather thin one? I'd like to see some proper figures indicating that there is direct link between these two.

That, and I'm more interested in seeing what the other 21 recommendations are.
Someone didn't think things through. Let's say they get this through, and all game stores within whatever distance of a school turn off their demos during school hours. Obviously, the really game-crazy students - those who genuinely skipped school to play - will then not bother playing truant anymore, since the fun is gone. That's good. But what about those (in my estimation a lot more numerous) who skip school because, say, it's boring, or because all the cool kids are doing it? Why, they'll still skip school, only now they have one less source of harmless fun to choose from. That would, all else being equal, increase the risk that they'll start having fun in not-so-harmless ways. And that's the kind of fun that may eventually lead to crime.

That's my two cents, anyway.
-ehm-

Wouldn't this only apply to German developed games from German developers like Piranha Bytes and the like? And isn't it the publishers who decide when to release demos and such PR material to the public? And isn't nearly all publishers these days international companies ? Or at least based in the US?

The point I slow getting at wouldn't this suggestion be kind of a moot point since all publishers will use the US time zones, not the European time zones which means that shcool's out when most demos get released, whether they are developed by a German or US or even Canadian based game developers...

The argument about truancy and criminal activities seem to be a (very) thin one, at least to me. It's true, of course, that some or maybe all? criminals have skipped school and then got involved in criminal activities. However, last time I checked playing a game demo 1 or 2 times a year and skipping school to do so is not a criminal activity (but maybe it is in Germany?)

I would rather have the politicians took notice of the boys&girls that skipped girl a lot instead of again singling or nearly singling our videogames as the bad guy...
That is no where near dealing with the problem...
I think it's a largely useless proposal, but as long as they only ASK that they turn them off, and not pass some law forcing them to, then it doesn't really matter.
When I was younger, I never skipped school just to play video games, it was because school is boring as all hell and they made almost absolutely no attempts to make it not boring, and most of their actual attempts failed.
You know, I don't mean to be rude or nothing, but, I can almost hear germany's new tourist slogan.

"Germany, Cause facisism was such a great idea the first time around"'

Come on folks, get over it and actually put your effort and resources to getting something constructive done.
@kurisu7885

Another point they left out is that some of the greatest criminal minds were great students who didn't skip school.

I, myself, never skipped school willingly. In mine, they DID made attempts to make it less boring (they worked). Guess some schools need to evolve.
Kids who skip school has other problems. I don't think video game demos in retailers would encourage criminal behaviour.
WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE GERMANS???
wow out touchy......
Maybe it's SCHOOL that makes kids want to skip. I don't know, just a thought.
@pierre-oliver
You're right, Hitler didn't skip school.
You know when I skipped school I went straight home and played the full game...why muck around with a demo? That and school was useless, I'm still trying to figure out how knowing shakespeare is supposed to be useful in life.....
Ahh, fake science. Criminals skipped school, therefore everyone who skips school is a criminal. Ooh, I got one.

In 1967 Charlie Chaplin stopped making films
In 1968 Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King were assassinated.

Therefore, a lack of Charlie Chaplin must directly correlate to assassination.
@ Freak4all

I would have loved to learn about important things. Credit cards, loans, how to change a tire, how to jump start a car, CPR, how to eat healthy. Apparently it was more important that I learn about World War II 5 years in a row.
He's going about this thevwrong way
He's going about this the wrong way, instead he should have checks for truant students around the stores.
If I want to play demos, I DOWNLOAD them at home. Besides, stores can only have so many.
Who would skip school so they can play 5 minutes of a game that's probably already out?

I think maybe they're looking in the wrong place for a cause.
I think this is an overreaction on both fronts. The game demos shutting off aren't going to solve the problem, but the schools are just asking. Lots of people here are acting as if the school's done a cardinal sin. But let's be honest here. 95% of the time when a school does something it's usually pressure from parents, because parents always think their kids are perfect little angels and if they do something wrong it's never their fault. Society today encourages coddling of children to the point that things are never their fault anymore. Diffusion of responsibility has become all too common nowadays and the education system is powerless to stop it because they are always pressured by parents to 'fix their kids.'

Now, if there were legal matters involved in this, it'd be a different story. But there aren't. I think we can leave our pitchforks and shovels in our barns.

For now.
turning off game demos will only make truant students harder to find, since they won't be concentrated in one area.
I think they should make more demos. Tons and tons of demos, then, they can sit around, and wait for all the JDs to come, and they can catch them.
Criminals at one time drove on highways, so we need to shut those down too.

Criminals at one time drank water, so we should ban water.
How will skip school and play a demo, when they could play a whole game?
@ Dick Ward

SO thats why they died
I thought it was Johnson
I know this is probably rude to say but... damn, times like these makes me happy to be American.

...Granted, stupid people still exist here. But at least our Constitution basically tells these people to go fuck themselves. Though, I don't know much about German law. As far as I've heard, gaming in Germany is hell.

Now...

I really, really hate flawed logic like this:

...Criminals skipped school at one time or another.

So? People have skipped school before, they've never turned into a criminal.

What is the point of having demos turned off, anyway? Do they think that German students ditch school so they can go play some short demo at a store? Yeah, and if this was to pass... Congratulations! You gave the kids one less thing to do!

Hell, for most kids who ditch school, gaming isn't even on their mind...

Hooray for scapegoating!
Making a decision based on a very loose and opinionated correlation is the reason why America is fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. Tactically, if you want to round up kids back to school then places like his loose example would be good "traps". Taking away these "traps" means kids will be scattered everywhere and in more potential harm then they were before. They are trying to solve one problem while creating another one. Plain stupidity it is.
That's a correlation fallacy and selection bias.
Better idea, impose a rule that people cannot be a game demo station for more than an hour at a time (unless they work there). I'm sure it's a rule most game stores would be happy to obey.
@ Father Time

Why? What's that going to accomplish? The most time I've seen somebody at a demo is 10 minutes.
Just what we need: Another bunch of Hitlers obsessed with world domination just because a bunch of moronic authorities wanted game demos off during school hours.
God. Damnit. Oops, I mean Damnithizenberger.
No offense to the german people intended in that last comment. But seriously, that sucks.
It's my view that people don't skip school for a specific purpose, but rather to avoid school. Duh. And it's not a retailer's job to avoid making their stores "tempting." It's the damn school's and the parent's job to assure that the kids are in school. What kind of retard goes to GameStop just to play the five-minute Katamari demo anyway?
I'd like to point out that I am a criminal (non-violent) and I never skipped school.
Yep. Skipped school one time. Now I'm a crack dealer/super-deadly ninja assassin.*joke*
I work at a game store and let me tell you. It's not to hard to monitor the demo stations. If someone even looks underage we can just ask for ID and if they don't have it we'll ask them to stop away from the machines. It's more of an inconvenience for our good customers who want to play demos and for employees to be monitoring what time it is so we can turn all of the demo stations on/off.
While were at it, lets shut down arcades during school hours.. oh and bowling ally's and fun parks.

Oh television, all television MUST be banned during school hours! No brainer!
Another bunch of Hitlers obsessed with world domination just because a bunch of moronic authorities wanted game demos off during school hours.

Okay, seeing stuff like this just annoys me. What the hell's the point of making World War 2 references in regards to VIDEO GAMES for God's sake? I know my share of Germans and they're no different from us, they have stupid politicians and smart ones. Turning off game demos is hardly the same as slaughtering the Jews. You can't even get your metaphors right.

This is exactly the reason gamers are discriminated against and believed to be immature/irresponsible, because the most vocal of us are also the rudest, dumbest, and most intolerant. Congratulations on becoming the same as your enemy.
Surely it would be more effective for the authorities to ask the games retailers to let them know if they see any potentially underage kids in their shops? If you just turn off the demos they will just go somewhere else instead. Wouldn't it be better to have them assist rather than enforcing some draconian law that doesn't actually solve the problem but move it to another location?
First off all: I am German and yes indeed we have very strict (and in addition: quite silly) laws regarding video games.

It is also indeed true that you see a lot of kids hanging out in shopping malls playing on public displays (which usally - by the way - offer you the FULL game to play and not just Demos... guess this is a translation error) during school time. Thus the idea behind this is not as far fetched as one might imagine.

Nevertheless it is just another sad attempt of.. lets say "blame and ban something totally not the reason for the problem" or basically just "ban what you do not understand". The conclusion that banning public displays will stop these kids from ditching school is just plain (I beg your pardon) fucking ridiculous. Instead of searching the real cause for this problem (e.g. obsolescent teaching methods and material in schools, misguided parenting... just to name a few) they just blame it on video games as it seems to be modern nowadays (like whenever something involing guns happens you can bet that there is going to be at least one newspaper asking "Did Counterstrike make them do it?"). Reason might be that it is of course a lot easier to pull a publicity stunt instead of really doing something that makes sense. In addition many politicians still seem to think video games are something just for kids...

But what annoys me the most is the fact that my generation had the same trouble and (most likely) for the same reason. Or in other words: 15 Years ago you might have seen me on one of those displays (in those days of course equipped with NES or Sega's Master System) during school time. Why? Because the "computer class" we had in school was not more than a complete joke and this was one way to get in contact with a new evolving technology instead of sitting in class hearing yet more about WW2 (not that this bad, but if you hear it more than twice a year it's enough). In fact I ditched school a lot and not because it was to hard (meaning I was an A-level student) more because it did not offer anything interesting to somebody interested in new media. So I went on and learned about that stuff on my own while ditching school.

And guess what: I graduated high school, I gratuated college and today I WORK in the gaming industry. Guess it was not that bad after all. Huh? ;)

Of course not all kids are like me, but what I am driving at is that nobody actually makes the affort to talk to these kids and find solutions based on the real problems.
You guys have no imagination.

He's calling for this because of kickbacks from the newly formed arcade lobby. They're upset at the death of arcades, and want all free games shut off so the truant kids have no choice but to return to the pay-per-play palaces!

I mean, it's not like anyone really believes kids won't cut class if you turn off the game demo kiosks... do they??
The reaction to this relatively benign proposal seems blown out of proportion. As part of a wide-ranging series of programs to improve the German education system (which is already excellent) authorities want to remove temptations.

And while I understand a certain desire for freedom to run one's business without interference, as I see it, demo kiosks are increasingly unimportant. If lawmakers want to target something that's already on the downturn, who cares? Maybe it'll keep them out of important issues for a while.
ITS A TRAP!
Yeah, cuz you know, kids never skipped school before demo kiosks. Never skip school to smoke weed. Or drink beer. Or skate. Or play games at home. Or just hang out and do anything but school. Heck, I used to miss the school bus because I was watching GI Joe.
And actually this would be a big deal for retailers. Every adult gamer goes to the mall to dick around in the game store on their lunch brake. It wouldn't be half as fun without the demos. And they would potentially lose a lot of business from us.

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 07/04/09 at 06:33pm
Alyric: Of course, Mark falls into the common trap about Columbine, which had nothing to do with bullying, etc. See: http://slate.msn.com/id/2099203/?GT1=3256 for a more thorough explanation.
Posted 07/04/09 at 06:32pm
PHX Corp: Read this http://www.destructoid.com/sgc-09-liveblogging-the-jack-thompson-debate-138502.phtml#ext
Posted 07/04/09 at 05:54pm
PHX Corp: JT is afraid of such ban then advocates it That's what i call a total Hypocrite
Posted 07/04/09 at 05:50pm
PHX Corp: AE: JT is a -Bleeping- Jackass
Posted 07/04/09 at 05:07pm
Andrew Eisen: JT "knew it would be a good audience." Not what he said on Tuesday.
Posted 07/04/09 at 05:01pm
Andrew Eisen: VG cause violent behavior. VG companies influence behavior to get sales. Yeah, that makes sense. (To be fair, the Twitter feed makes deciphering JT's point pretty tough.)
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:52pm
Andrew Eisen: Yes, it's been proposed but as far as I know it has not been passed. Big difference.
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:50pm
Cheater87: http://www.gamezine.co.uk/news/formats/xbox360/all-violent-video-games-be-banned-in-germany-$1301757.htm
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:49pm
Andrew Eisen: Far as I know, Germany has not banned all violent video games.
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:44pm
Cheater87: Jack wants the US to follow Germany's total video game ban.
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:42pm
Andrew Eisen: Note to JT, it is not illegal to sell kids a ticket to R-rated movies.
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:39pm
Cheater87: Jack said we would be better with no rating sytem.
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:35pm
Alareth: So what was the introduction used for Jack?
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:31pm
JDKJ: Heard one, you've heard 'em all. He repeats the same act, with the same half-truths, over and over.
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:31pm
Andrew Eisen: Using a credit card as age verification is not illegal. Hope Mark called him on that and his made up statistics.
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:30pm
Alareth: Jack is special, his mommy always told him so.
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:29pm
Andrew Eisen: JT lied about that APA causation thing again. Wonder if Mark called him on it.
Posted 07/04/09 at 04:04pm
Andrew Eisen: Follow the JT/Methenitis debate on Twitter: http://twitter.com/jtdebate
Posted 07/04/09 at 01:18pm
Andrew Eisen: Rodrigo - A fun idea but you might want to fix the typos.
Posted 07/04/09 at 12:57pm
GRIZZAM PRIME: Happy 4th of July!
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