April 27, 2008
The 2007 ban on Manhunt 2 and, more recently, the report of Dr. Tanya Byron (left), have helped make the U.K. a hotbed of gaming controversy during the past ten months. On Friday the BBC looked at how the video game rating process takes place in the U.K., where both the Pan European Game Information system (PEGI) and the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) are involved. [Game publishers group] ELSPA head Paul Jackson explains:
The PEGI system is a classic self-regulatory system. Every publisher who is putting a game forward for publication reviews the whole game, every element of it, and puts together a report for the Pegi organisation.
The PEGI organisation then uses a set of criteria to decide what age that is appropriate for. That is how it is published across Europe.
BBFC director David Cooke adds:
... At the moment the only games that come to the BBFC are the ones that contain gross violence which is roughly the equivalent of an 18 certificate movie or certain types of games that contain linear material that can bring them to the BBFC attention as well...
[BBFC game examiners] are people typically in their early 30s, not blokes in suits and bowler hats. They are people who in some cases actually come from the games industry.
They will play the game and sample it at all levels. They will have help from the publisher, so they have cheat codes because it isn't necessarily easy if you are getting killed all the time.
While the two-headed system currently in place is confusing, it is expected that it will be refined with further study. Among its recommendations, the Byron Review called for a more robust, movie-style rating system.
Comments
basically meaning you can not import it, unless you leave the nation and get it yourself, importing it via mail means its subject to being confiscated as contraband, I have 2 or 3 people from the UK get their shit stolen by the government.
The law on the books needs to be changed for the times until then the BBFC needs to either change or disband.
None of this, of course, applies to mainstream, i.e. commercially produced, video games ...
So pegi is not needed in some places.
Apart from the 18 certificate there is nothing else really for show on the BBFC classification on the front of the box
the BBFC is unneeded it either needs to go away or change.
It's PEGI that don't actually view the games, they work from a report provided by the publisher. The BBFC do play through the content themselves, using cheat codes to access the material more quickly, and view video of the cut scenes.
not the point by blocking content to mature citizens they fail completely.
Hella.
"...contraband..."
The BBFC refusing a rating does not make it illegal to own. People can import anything other than actual illegal media and can do so in safety. (Provided they're importing a format that their systems can play, of course.) Oh, and they can't @ban items by not viewing them@; they have to play the thing in order to refuse it a rating.
Ya? back it up with a few links... I can't find my link but last I check it is illicit to own it if the BBFC has not rated it.
own or sell....
That's the way it has always been and is repeated ad infinitum every time a BBFC topic comes up on GP. The law applies to the seller. From the BBFC FAQ:
"The Video Recordings Act 1984 (VRA) makes it illegal to supply any video or DVD within the UK which has not been classified by the BBFC." "You are therefore entitled to purchase unclassified videos or DVDs whilst abroad, provided they contain no illegal material and are solely for personal use."
You don't have to leave the country. You can import things. The seller is outside the UK and so is not bound by UK sale law. Go to Amazon.com and order something to be shipped to a UK address: They let you. If it were illegal, don't you think Amazon would be in trouble?
the trouble is its a half state in the US we have plenty of moronic laws that can and can not be enforced at the same time, the vagueness needs to be done away with because the parcel/mail system dose confiscate stuff.
I have to question the validity of this statement. Sure, Royal Mail knows how to lose its fair share of parcels but are you saying that people are importing movies and games and having them confiscated by *customs*?
"Basically, you can import any film for non commercial use as long as it is not classed as obscene. There lies the rub. Customs have their own definitions of obscene (Reanimator!) and are basically unchallangeable, even in court, if one correspondant is to be believed. Remember also, these people need no warrant to raid a property and, once inside, can sieze pretty much whatever they like. Personally, I am a weed and buy anything likely to be 'dodgy' at film fairs etc."
I believe the law is still as vauge and tis up to customs to define obscene.
http://www.melonfarmers.co.uk/cw.htm
Its still in practice it seems, in the US the USPS has cheaper rates for certain types of media, computer games and blank DVDs do not follow under computer media for instance, it dose not fall under it because the wording is so vague the post office can say its not and screw with your shipment, vauge rules need to be done away with.
and I do relise the link given cover porn or horror films and not games but the point stands, obscene is defined by customs.
ZOMG mew balls for a edit button >
The customs seizures would be based on illegal content and suspected piracy. A box of unlabeled DVDs, for instance, would flag quite highly on their warning list. Fair play to the Melon Farmers for fighting against the problems in the system, but they're talking about things above and beyond Manhunt 2.
"You may like to know that we received a couple of reports from members of the public who tried to import MURDER SET PIECES last year, and their copies were seized by HM Revenue & Customs. This action was taken by customs long before our decision to refuse the work a certificate."
Customs are seizing things they think are illegal *WITHOUT* influence from the BBFC. The seizure of Murder Set Pieces in that article is entirely independent of what the BBFC says. Or in this case, didn't say.
The obscenity laws are a whole different story and are differently policed and enforced than the VRA and the BBFC.
mentality of the process as a whole, the BBFC is part of the problem because of their inability to slot adult content to adults.
Also I consider the BBFC part of the government.
The whole thing needs to be cleaned up theres a difference in obscene to some and illicit.
Last I checked(famous last words I know but i keep on coming back :P) the 18 level(not R18) is restricted by law its not mainly used for porn thus tings that are legal but questionable can go there, there is no reason they can not.
If this was done you would not have so many customs issues, and hopefully it would lessen (eww I dun like it tis obscene)mentality..
and yes the US needs this sht done here too :P
Customs doesn't come into it. It's entirely different from anything the BBFC does.
Let me say you are making good points, far better than most of mine however you have a few issues that can elad to a cluster fck.
1.the mentality that legal things can be obscene(not so bad by itself).
2.vague rules regarding what is obscene thus anything can be.
3.BBFC fussing at media for being made for adults but is not porn.
4.You can only import for yourself the things the BBFC has turned their nose up to.
If BBFC used the system they have in place and not whine about adult content in non porn media then the populace would have better, more secure access to mature media.
the BBFC is part of the problem by making stuff illicit to sale at the retail level within the nation and having "obscene" issues int he post you have a good old fashioned cluster fck, it might be a limp one all things considered but ti a issue that needs to be dealt with.
According to whom? The system for 15 and 18 (and soon to be 12) is exactly the same as the DVD and Film industry ratings and is universally recognised by all UK residents. whoever wrote this article obviously doesn't come from the UK.
Further more, to all those arguing with him, Matthew is 100% correct in all he has said. Preach on brother.
"The obscenity laws are a whole different story and are differently policed and enforced than the VRA and the BBFC. "
Zippy's right about the amazing powers of Customs though. In Canada they have the same "non-appeal" powers of defining on an agent-level what "obscene" means. There was a famous case here where a bookstore was importing gay magazines, and Customs confiscated and destroyed them when they passed through the border. One single agent had the power to deem them "obscene", and there was no appeal. In a lawsuit the courts eventually ruled that they were not obscene, but refused to compensate the store for the destroyed materials. Customs has been cited numerous times for confiscating non-obscene gay and lesbian material, and has never been punished, or the victims compensated.
In the end, the courts agreed that while the one bookstore was unfairly targeted (in that case, it became clear that one office of Customs had some kind of anti-gay agenda, even resorting to petty vandalism to "damage" shipments), it ruled that Customs as a whole had the power to seize and destroy material that agents themselves deemed "obscene".
So yes, Customs has some wicked powers.
1) Legal things cannot be obscene. When used in this context "obscenity" refers to obscenity laws entirely outside the scope of the BBFC. These laws are subject to change (e.g. homosexuality) but they are designed to catch only the most extreme stuff that you are, in effect, not allowed to enjoy. Sadomasochistic porn isn't even considered obscene. Yet.
2) Most laws are vague. They have wiggle room. If laws were entirely black and white then there would be no need for appeals, no legal loopholes, and no need for most of the law profession.
3) Valid argument. As yet though the BBFC has only fussed at a bare handful of games and has relented on all of them.
4) Not sure what you mean there. You can import anything and it's no big deal if you do.
Matthew
1)Customs has their own view of things because things are judged at an agents discursion, so yes because things are banned from sale through normal routes you will have a in proportionate amount of stuff being confiscated when its merely due to faulty “gears” in the machine of government.
2)Wiggle room is good however by not slotting media appropriately the BBFC puts unneeded stress and gives unneeded power to customs because the volume of questionable items goes up because they are unable to call something adult or not.
3)mew good thoughts are getting few and far between in mew old age :P
4) The best interpretation the VRA ““You are therefore entitled to purchase unclassified videos or DVDs whilst abroad, provided they contain no illegal material and are solely for personal use.””
whilst abroad = import mail order chilling effect, the chilling effect being random custom seizers.
I see it like this the BBFC needs to shut up and slot the media no matter what it is adult is adult there is no need to fuss over gore and violence, porn is porn there is no need to throw a fit unless its bestiality, child porn or live rape, if they can manage to do that the chilling effect lessens across the board.
Much as I dislike the BBFC's current stance regarding censorship, I do wish Byron hadn't dithered and gone for one or other system to cover the lowest to highest ratings. If that would have meant the BBFC took sole responsibility then fine, at least everyone would know what was going on. Right now I feel we've got a bit of a messy compromise and I'm not sure that's helpful to parents or the industry.
Gift.
I disagree, there really is no great problem with the current PEGI/BBFC system other than the occasional conflicting age ratings, and indeed were the BBFC to rate ALL games, with a film-style system, then there would be no need for the PEGI number rating and the PEGI symbols would be simply understood as a further part of the overall classification.
A surpluss of information rather than a competing factor.
Then again I'm not calculating the idiot factor in.
yeah there are 2 ratings on some things, but one is just a pure rating and the other just gives extra information and more detail about specific themes and suggestions contained within.
i mean if one says 18 and the other says 17+ its still not rocket science to work out that a 5 year old shouldnt hav it.
i really dont find it confusing. i mean seriously.
If that's the case, then really we should either jettison the PEGI system entirely to avoid muddying the waters. (With a little luck this might help parents pay proper attention to the seriousness of the BBFC rating see 7.28). Alternatively, we could use PEGI and nothing else and demystify the system for parents with a proper advertising campaign. Either situation leaves no room for mistake cf. the current wishy washy compromise, which I suspect probably undermines even the familiar BBFC system's authority.
At the very least, feckless parents wouldn't have any cause to complain about how "terribly complicated the system is". As things stand Byron doesn't fully implement the measures her report highlights and that's just silly IMHO.
Gift.
PEGI is self regulation. The Govt has no power to stop ELSPA using it and the would not want to do so voluntarily, as it is used in many other jurisdictions outside the UK.
The BBFC has Statutory power in the UK. PEGI would not be granted that power, nor do I think they would want it. I don't think that a completely self-regulatory system was going to be acceptable in the UK that meant that the BBFC was always going to be used.
The BBFC were always going to win out as an independent regulator, but the industry were unlikely to give up PEGI. Both remain.
Obviously we cannot stop games from carrying PEGI ratings, that's not what I was saying. What we could do is require all games to carry a BBFC rating (i.e. U, PG as well as 12 etc.). If PEGI causes parental confusion then that would be the logical thing to do: make sure everything carries a familiar certificate. Were there only one set of symbols to look out for it would hardly matter what additional ratings are printed on the package.
Gift.