April 27, 2008 -
According to the New Zealand Herald, Kiwi gamers who purchase Grand Theft Auto IV will be getting the same edited version as their Australian neighbors.GP readers may recall that GTA IV publisher Rockstar Games was required to sanitize the game in order to gain clearance from Australian government censors. From the Herald report:
The censorship of Grand Theft Auto IV has forced the country's largest online retailer of games to cancel $50,000 worth of advance orders.
Meanwhile, Bob McCoskrie, a spokesman for watchdog group Family First, ripped GTA IV and called for a ban:
Players could re-enact having sex with a prostitute, beating her bloody, taking her money and running her over with a car and shooting at police officers.
It is completely naive to believe that teenagers and young children won't have access to and be able to play the game. It is also completely unrealistic to believe that young people will not be influenced in their attitudes and behaviours by constant exposure to this type of material.
So-called ‘entertainment’ and freedom of expression should never be at the expense of the safety of our community, appropriate emotional and moral development of our children, and promoting acceptable attitudes towards women, violence and law enforcement.
While New Zealand has been know to censor video game content, it is apparently the game publisher's decision to sell the watered-down GTA IV there: Simon Barton of Gameplanet told the newspaper:
Everyone's assuming it is logistics. It just makes sense for them to send us the Australian version... There's plenty of swearing, plenty of violence [in the game]. It's very good. But I wouldn't want my 15-year-old playing it.
Comments
And I wonder whether they showed Saw, Hostel, etc. etc. ad nauseum at the cinema houses? After all, it's naive to think that "teenagers and young children won’t have access to and be able to [replace text start] watch those movies [replace text stops]".
More uninformed Parent Panic again. For historical instances of this happening, please see ... hmm, every generation since the dawn of time. Only difference here is that the younger generation has no means of fighting back, it seems, and that the people in power no longer have the stones to say: "Video games do not make kids kill".
Fangamer
So, we should censor free expression to suit the needs of law enforcement then? That sounds an awful lot like a police state to me.
What's next Bob? Shall we stifle free expression which questions government in general if they don't think dissent is an "acceptable attitude?"
Are they saying that the game is going to make people be killers or am I just misreading that?
Yes. That is pretty much what he's saying.
Really? I guess you didn't see the warning label that comes on the loading screens that say 'Rockstar Games does not condone this behavior.' And at the expense? Look STUPID, If you disagree, then don't buy, but don't make others decisions to buy it by calling for a ban, cause all that will do is make them get it from somewhere else, and according to all the pre-orders being canceled, it looks like thats whats happening!
"Everyone’s assuming it is logistics. It just makes sense for them to send us the Australian version… There’s plenty of swearing, plenty of violence [in the game]. It’s very good. But I wouldn’t want my 15-year-old playing it."
Fine, then release the uncensored game and still keep your fifteen year-old from playing it. You selling the censored version means they'll get it another way, Thats why you lost all that $$$ in pre-orders.
- Warren Lewis
Today from New Zealand's Family First:
"It follows on from previous Grand Theft Auto games which included constant graphic violence and sexual situations. Players could re-enact having sex with a prostitute, beating her bloody, taking her money and running her over with a car and shooting at police officers."
From last Wednesday's Parent's Television Council release:
"The Grand Theft Auto games include constant graphic violence and sexual situations. In past versions, players could re-enact having sex with a prostitute, beating her bloody, taking her money and running her over with a car; shooting at police officers..."
Wow. It's almost word for word. Both releases even use the same Grossman quote.
Hmm...
Andrew Eisen
SO THEY'RE RIPPOFFS TO! AWESOME!
I only heard of Family First's comments this morning on the news, and I intend to contact them voicing my objection to their comments.
Are you insinuating that New Zealand's Family First simply copied the press release from the Parent's Television Council without doing any actual research into the matter of hand?
But that would mean they were intellectually dishonest and pushing an agenda that includes securing more power by provoking more false outrage.
Perish the thought.
Then don't let them play it, duh. Just because you have a teen that WANTS to play it, isn't an excuse for accepting a censored version.
Anyway, sorry to her that, NZ nationals. Let the wave of imports begin!
When I read that, I think it sounded very familiar. I thought I was experiencing Daja vu.
This proves that these guys don't know what they are talking about. They just did a google search to dig up reasons to ban this game.
And this comes from someone who doesn't even like the series much.
Bloody Parrots.
Thank GOD that this sorta shit isn't going on in the UK, hello uncensored version!
Family First is merely a minor pressure/lobby group with little teeth. I had honestly never heard of them until today. I'd say their view is significantly out of touch with the NZ public in general and our government.
Also is it just me or is there a bot trawling the site and posting replys with the same title and a big quote snip as the body? It's bloody annoying.
Heh. Stupid parroting of phrases by jackass scare groups. Doesn't stirring up fear count as terrorism?
Those are just people posting links to sites that are running the same story.
Secondly:
And I wonder whether they showed Saw, Hostel, etc. etc. ad nauseum at the cinema houses?
Yes, like you wouldn't believe. Never even heard a peep from the "Family First".
The name pretty much sums up everything about the group you need to know: Family; if you disagree with us you clearly hate families and eat babies, and First; we're right, we're right, we're right, so there!
Anytime a news article about anything slightly concerning "Family" pops up they'll be some comment; teen thugs = breakdown in societies moral fibre, teen drinking = breakdown in societies moral fibre etc.
The only reason people hear about them is they give the media good soundbites. They aren't relevant to NZ or the general public.
I noticed that too, in fact i honestly thought this was something Dennis reported before and I was about to point that out to him.
Wait, Grossman? You mean Lev Grossman? The Times writer who was nice enough to bash anyone who's ever played Halo or any other video game?
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1657825,00.html
If not, please ignore that...
But yeah, I'm really getting sick of video games being censored while, as Lev puts it in the above article, "more respectable media" see none of these restrictions.
What annoys me the most about this is that no-one knows whats been cut from the game. If it turns out to be major stuff, I'll just get my 360 chipped and download the leaked version. I will already own a copy so it won't even be piracy :)
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10506373
Organize and spam messages to your governments demanding an r18+ rating. It's what those 'censorship under the guise of protecting families' groups do. Or at the very least organize and make some sort of joint effort to protest said government (as a quick note online petitions almost never work and print ones are more likely to get results).
As for me, a mate & I are going to be at the shops when they open tomorrow to get the australian version whilst we await the delivery of the version I ordered from canada a few days ago. Only hoping that it works... Hmm there's a thought, would the different versions of the game show up as different entries? Could I get 2000 gamerpoints for GTA4?
I believe so but I could be wrong.
NZ has an R18 rating but we still get the censored version, grrr.
As for Aussie, I beleive they are currently reviewing their rating system with the intention of including an R18 rating.
"Players could re-enact having sex with a prostitute, beating her bloody, taking her money and running her over with a car and shooting at police officers."
I could re-enact that in real life too, but I won't. Having sex with prostitutes (which is LEGAL in New Zealand) is not forced upon the player and only those wanting to do do it. The example I just mentioned (besides the shooting at the police thing) are things people have to choose to do. Your mind has to already be capable of thinking up such acts to actually carry them out. It's not the game's fault if the player already has a desire to run over sex workers.
"It is completely naive to believe that teenagers and young children won’t have access to and be able to play the game."
This is a pathetic arguement. This is the what I think is called "respecting the lowest common denominator" or something, where we should give up our rights to adhere to what more sensitive people want. Why should I sacrifice my right to play GTA4 just because if it's made available some 15 year might get their hands on it? I mean, I don't like the fact that Manhunt was banned, but I do consider it something I would probably be willing to give up the right to own or play to stop children from having the chance to play it, because it looks so brutal, but GTA4 is no manhunt.
"It is also completely unrealistic to believe that young people will not be influenced in their attitudes and behaviours by constant exposure to this type of material."
It's also unrealistic, at least at this point, to consider that a video game, especially GTA4, would have any sort of negative effect on a person that will manifest into some kind of morally-wrong or illegal activity. I played GTA3 when I was 15 and I have never even had the urge to steal a car or kill a hooker. I have never even had a great urge to fire a gun. I have loved Doom since before puberty and my point about firing guns above still stands. Sure, I probably have an unhealthy respect for the shotgun, but that's mroe idolising, rather than desire to go on a killing spree.
"So-called ‘entertainment’ and freedom of expression should never be at the expense of the safety of our community, appropriate emotional and moral development of our children, and promoting acceptable attitudes towards women, violence and law enforcement."
(From Dictionary.com) "Entertainment (noun): something affording pleasure, diversion, or amusement, esp. a performance of some kind." Yeah, I'm pretty sure GTA4 isn't "so-called 'entertainment'" but is, in fact, entertainment. And I agree that there should be limits on freedom of expression and all that, but I do not regard video games, movies or TV to be able applicable to this. Once these ignorant people forget their pseudo-science, thinking that exposure to something makes people more likely to do it, and can prove their points with real science, then perhaps I'll actually take them seriously. It is possible to have respect for women, positive attitudes towards police and not be a violent person and still be able to play video games. I am an example of this. I would hope most gamers were. Perhaps these sorts of people should spend less time fighting this "evil" and more time actually educating children or getting the government to introduce education to schools about morals and ethics.
Only a very small people will ever replicate a video game in real life and those people are very likely to be disturbed people and if not getting inspiration from video games, then from somewhere else. And in New Zealand? We're not America, no offence. I'm pretty sure we have a lot more restrictive gun laws and a lot lower crime rate, although I could be wrong about the latter.
They fluked a senator in Australia in 2004 when both the Liberal Party (our conservatives) and the Labor Party (our Democrats) preferenced them ahead of the Greens. They got 1.9% of the vote, the Greens 9% or so, but with the ludicrous preferencing decision from Labor FF got the last senate spot in Victoria instead of the Greens. (Most Labor voters were very surprised to find where their vote had gone.) A good argument for allowing preferencing above the line, but that's a different issue.
Anyway, Labor did not make that mistake again in 2007, and Fundies First look set to lose their only senator when his term expires in 2010. In the meantime, have a look at their only senator (Mr 1.9%, if you don't mind my harping on it) dressed as a bong.
They're a national embarrassment. I'm sorry to New Zealanders that we've exported them there.
Only problem is banning the game probably DIDN'T stop kids from getting their hands on it and even if it did why should you not be allowed a game because some kid might get ahold of it and mess with his mind (do you guys have a complete ban of porn? If not the same principle applies).
"And I agree that there should be limits on freedom of expression and all that, "
Err what sorts of limits exactly (just wondering).
Well enough bashing, beyond those two points I agree with every thing you said. I absolutely HATE people who want to make the world kid friendly (which is especially idiotic when you consider that kids are the minority except in 3rd world countries which are having a large population growth).
If they're so worried about what their children are doing,would it kill them to get off their asses and LOOK?!They're treating GTA(even though I've stated countless times I don't care much for the game)like you would FOX News:That you don't even need to watch(or in GTA's case,play)it to justify dis paring it.It makes me mad,but probably not as mad as most Aussie and New Zealand gamers.Damn lucky Canadians.
If we go by the notion that any excessively violent content will harm the children then what will stop the other hours upon hours from doing its damage?
The only people losing out here are those in the retail business of selling games in our respective countries. Absolutely nobody wins in this situation. At all! The notion that we should "be cool" because Rockstar themselves edited the content without an official intervention is nil as they would not have had to without frivolous watchdog groups and idiocratic regulatory bodies.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go watch somebody say "fuck" and shoot someone in the head on public television right after SVU is done figuring out who the deranged child rapist is - because apparently that's "entertainment" that's suitable...
Not everyone was automatically notified or had their order canceled. From what I've heard (NZ retail industry sources) it depends on when you placed the order. Supposedly a number of stores did notify or cancel the orders of people who ordered in NZ after the announcement that the Australian version was censored. Personally my GTA IV pre-order dated from last July and I was not notified. I had to ask to have my order canceled, but there was no problem in doing so.
Normally NZ gets the UK version whenever the Australian censors throw a hissy-fit. This happened with with GTA Vice City and more recently, Dark Sector.
The government always thinks monkey see monkey do. PEOPLE KNOW THAT DOING THAT IS WRONG. But there are some people who cant tell the difference between right and wrong. Even so... 95% vs 5%