[...] wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptArs Technica has a report on Jack Thompson’s claim that the sexual content in Grand Theft Auto IV is essentially pornographic. As is his custom, Thompson once again invokes law enforcement by writing to his local US Attorney about the game’s hooker and strip club scenes: Indictments should be returned against Take Two corporately and its Chairman, Strauss Zelnick, along with other Take Two officers. Indictment should also be against Sony and Microsoft which are making this pornographic game available to minors, and openly so, on their PS3 and Xbox systems. Further, indictments should be handed down against Wal-Mart, Best Buy, GameStop, and all other retailers distributing this game to minors at their retail stores, openly, to kids who are only seventeen. [...]

GameDevMich,
No, no, no. Haven't you learned yet? ONLY John Bruce can make that determination as to what is or is not appropriate for other people's children. Don't believe me? Look at his Bully lawsuit where he clearly states that HE ALONE should be allowed to play games before they are released so HE can determine if they are appropriate for other people's children. It's specifically stated so in the lawsuit. Shame on you! SHAME on you for not directing the kid's mum to John Bruce to make that decision for her! Shame on you!

John Bruce is morally superior to everyone else in the world and ONLY HE is a good Parent and everyone else should have their kids removed from their custody 'cuz ONLY HE can properly raise them.

:: Baaaaarrrrrffff!!! ::

:: Sigh ::

I just can't say stupid things like that without puking.

Sorry.

:: Mops up mess. ::

(But I wasn't kidding about the Bully lawsuit, as you know.)

Nightwng2000
NW2K Software

Take Two will never file a suit against him.
A John Bruce e-mail probalby sells more copies of a game than any poster or Magazine fullpage spread.

@Dog Welder

If it makes you feel better I saw a guy that had to be in his late 40's, maybe even early 50's, get carded. They carded EVERYONE as they were walking up to the line, even if you weren't getting the game and was just keeping someone company. They were leaving no room for the critics to bitch about ID policies not being enforced this time.

@GryphonOsiris

Link to Wiki article plz
give me proof

Title might as well have read "Sun Rises another day begins"

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH MY GOD, THIS IS FUNNY!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!! "AMERICAN BEAUTY" HAS NOTHING ON THIS!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

seriously pornographic...

ive just been to the strip club in gtaIV , got it this morning..

they are basically models wearing bikinis. Polygonal models. Not even real people . and they wiggle. thats it.


Then (granted ive only played a few hours) the only sex ive 'seen' has been from a camera looking outside at a closed apartment window with the curtains drawn and a woman making noises like on that shampoo advert 'oooh yesss!' type of thing. thats it

And the game (in the uk anyway) has a BIG FAT 18 on the front of it using THE EXACT SAME SYMBOL AS 18 RATED MOVIES.

jesus. how are they making it available to minors, 'and openly so'.

i realyl dont understand JTS logic one bit.

Polio, Jack? I suggest you read up on that disease. Typical Thompson hyberbole. He will be ignored by any who matter, and Fox News will have him on again. Once they are done with their 24-hour 'polygamist ranch' coverage.

I feel a little bad for him. He really believes in this but he has been fighting a loosing battle for so long now. Someone with his drive could have been out fighting things that really do have bad effects on society, yet he just keeps attacking Grand Theft Auto.

Speaking of which, I've looked up a lot of information on Jack Thompson, and he seems to have never heard of God of War. In that game there is blood flying like a river out of everything that moves. There is a nude scene in the beginning, and boobs throughout the rest of the first and second game. And yet, he keeps attacking Grand Theft Auto. I think at this stage he is just picking on what gets headlines and doesn't really know much about the games available.

The poor guy might have a heart attack if he ever sees Ninja Gaiden.

Polygamist ranch? O.o

By the way, the fact that he this is coming up now is not surprising to me one bit.

But God dennis, couldnt we have bathed in the win we got for just a bit longer before having to read JT's idiocy? T_T

Message to Jack: Every time you run your mouth with your claims, they fall on deaf ears, mainly because we don't give a fuck what you have to say anymore. It's just so predictable when you'll show up these days.

My fiancee's best friend's son, who is 15, went to purchase GTA IV. Gamestop was the retailer, and he was turned away at the counter. He proceeded to ask his mother to purchase it for him.

She came to me and asked if I knew anything about the game. Plain and simple, I told her to read the box: particularly the warning and ESRB label. It goes without saying the kid will continue to play Naruto and Tony Hawk for a while.

Lesson? Parents are well equipped to determine what is appropriate for their children. I completely support her decision not to allow her child to play the game BECAUSE HE IS HER CHILD.

R* developed the game. T2 published the game. ESRB rated the game appropriately. Gamestop is distributing the game. The system works. Period.

Remember everyone. The more attention they pay to this, the more it sells, oy. HA-HA!

"seriously pornographic…

ive just been to the strip club in gtaIV , got it this morning..

they are basically models wearing bikinis. Polygonal models. Not even real people . and they wiggle. thats it. " - NovaBlack

We should consider that some of the right wing (mostly Christian) family nut job groups out there think women in bikinis is porn. So it shouldn't be a surprise if GTA4 is considered pornographic, when it has less nudity then an R rated movie that will be just down the aisle from it at Best Buy (just me, but maybe the video game industry should use the same rating system as the movie industry, at least then as a R rated game, it could contain small amounts of nudity and more violence/language and still be sold in retail stores).

What I don't understand is why Jack is not suing America's MeXt Top Model or any other broadcast television show whih shows nipples. Arenèt they ciminally distributing porn too? At a free price even!

@GameDevMich

Not only does the system work, but Best Buy wouldn't even let anyone under 17 stand in line last night for the midnight release. They were checking everyone's ID as they were lining up, and then checking them again at the checkout.

Hmm no edit button right? What I meant is "Yes it’s no worse than a rated R movie but I must admit it’s the most hardcore sexual behavior I’ve seen in a videogame".

Yeah... nothing new here.

In other news I found out that the sun does still rise and set over a 24 hour period.

I've seen R rated movies get away with a lot more than GTA 4 without getting an adult only stamp. There's no reason for GTA 4 to be branded more than mature until those movies get re-rated to their equivalent. Locally all the game stores I buy at card buyers who look under 30, and I've visited every local game store I know of at least once. On the other hand I've been to just about every local movie theater and most don't even care about letting someone underage into an R rated movie. Where I live all of JT's points about distribution fail miserably.

But JT doesn't care about addressing even pseudo-real problems like that, he just wants to keep after Rockstar and Take Two to fulfill some personal vendetta of his.

And I claim that Jack Thompson is an idiot.

Technically, isn't this stock market manipulation as JT causing drama will no doubt increase sales, which will increase T2's stock, which will increase his profit when he sells?

SOMEONE CALL THE SEC!!!!!!!111one11!!!

I hate all of you for making me want to play GTA.You all should be ashamed of yourselves.


Other than that,well summed up on this article,Dennis.

Woah woah woah, wait just a damn minute here. Did he just compare a debilitating disease to a damn video game?

Holy God I hope he gets disbarred.

He's still running with the idea that these games are just being handed to kids... There's not even an argument to be made past that point. He's just wrong, I don't think any of us expected any less of a man who has essentially had his ability to communicate with people revoked.

If the game was being sold to children, it's likely because the parents didn't care. Everyone else who has bought the game is fully aware of what it is, what it's about, and is probably already playing it. You can't condemn pornography (which it's not) for simply existing and being bought by responsibly adults, nor can you try and punish everyone who so much as looked at the game because you think it's the anti-Christ in disc form.

And JT wonders why they are trying to disbar him... What a sad little man.

« Indictment should also be against Sony and Microsoft which are making this pornographic game available to minors, and openly so, on their PS3 and Xbox systems. »

*cough*
There's a reason why there are Parental Control features on both the 360 and PS3.

So with this, indictment should also be against the parents of those minors since they failed to turn on Parental Control on the consoles?

Geezus, that's a lot of people to be locked up...

Just because Jack is locked in his room John Bruceing off to these games doesn't mean the rest of the world does. They aren't pr0n.

Other then that, nothing else has changed, so instead of my normal wall of text about him, I'm going to start using this tag to shorten my comments.
[Insert previous comments about JT]

Looks like my close tag didn't work...
Test...

Polio? *blink blink* POLIO? Seriously? The greatest assaulton childrensince a degenerative disease.

Wow... That'd be a hellof a claim... IF IT WERE TRUE!

At this point, I think Jack just does this for the laughs.

Sorry, Seriously...

"There is some accountability that is being forgotten here, which is in the retailers court. They are required to ask for ID when selling M rated games to make sure that the people buying the game are accompanied by an adult or 17 years or older."

This is a common mistake. You see, all carding and such is strictly voluntary. Only pornography is controlled by law. This means children can and do get into R rated films, buy vulgar CDs, and can buy video games. Majority of the industry is on a self-policing policy which, for the most part, works. But there are some outlets which do not care and after having worked retail, I don't blame them. Often you'll turn the child away only to get yelled at by the parent for trying to raise their kid days before they throw a copy of Conker's Bad Fur Day at you from the returns counter (still have the scar below my left eye, cardboard with a circular motion and 2lbs of weight behind it can cut deep...).

So no, there is no responsibility on the retailers side of things because this isn't law. All attempts to make it law have been so retarded (aka, clerk gets a felony charge.. wha?!?), the laws have been struck down. A vast majority of the carding is done strictly on a voluntary basis and most retailers adhere to that volunteer system. This is why when Jack claims stores are breaking laws when the kids manage to get their hands on this, he has to label them "pornography" to get any credence to the claim.

Anyone wonder what is taking so long for Take-Two to file suit against this ignoramus? Didn't they come to an agreement in which T2 agreed not to continue with legal action so long as Jack no longer interferes with their sales? I suppose that they could be waiting for his official disbarment since it's easier to fight an animal that's been declawed...and neutered.

@Repudiator

Well, I'm not surprised. He compared the Playstation 2 sales with the Pearl Harbor attack.

Isn't he a bit too late now? The game's already released.

"Grand Theft Auto IV is the gravest assault upon children in this country since polio."

That is a GREAT box quote! The greatest-hits release of the game NEEDS to have this on the box.

Yeah R* won't sue cuz JT helps sales. Until he becomes so annoying they need to swat him they won't.

I know I'm gonna go buy a copy of GTA IV simply because JT is so adamant about it. I mean come on! He's comparing this one to Polio... POLIO!!!

...The game must totally kick ass!

"If I'm going down, I'm going down in flames! Listen to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

P.S. Jack, the ESA Foundation is still waiting on that $10,000 you promised them when GTA:SA came out.

I just picked up GTA IV. I'm 38 and I GOT CARDED! (I really wish I was making that up.) It's been at least 10 years since I was carded for buying beer. BEER!

Jack is so full of fail it's not even funny.

Retailers are getting more effective at regulating sales of M-rated games.

So we already have a vaccine for this "polio".

I submit that JT doesn't even know what pornography is.

[...] This Is Weird So up at GamePolitics, the news regarding GTA4 is mostly… positive. People saying that GTA does not inspire kids to join gangs, that most people realize it’s a game, and overall it just seems like the controversy is a lot lower than for San Andreas (with one obvious exception but did we expect any less of him?). This is very surprising. [...]

Bullshit Jack.

I had to work the midnight launch for GTA4. The only IDs I didn't check were of guys with graying hair. The youngest guy we got was 18.

Also lol polio.

@ooftygoofty

I'm certain that he thinks the pin-up doll nose art from WWII constitutes pornography, even though most were clothed and are tame even compared to the modern Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition.

For some reason this reminds me of an odd bit of Edwardian/Victorian trivia that I learned a while back. Some of the more effluent families would get a special, well, lets call it a collar, for the teenage boys in the family that had a series of pins facing inwards on it. It was worn in a rather sensitive and delicate place and was designed to 'punish' the lad should he 'rise to the occasion'. Strangely enough, this bit of torture of a prudish group makes me think of Jack Thompson as both come from the same mindset that finds all but the "dressed down 2 stages from a nun" attitude about women offensive.

Of course, I'm also reminded of Porky's 2, with the debate about Shakespeare and the bible and how both sides listed sexually implicit verses from both. The truest (and sadest) part about it was that the Reverend would say "So says the shepard..." and was answered with "So says the flock.", similar to JT in so many ways it's less comedy than real life satire.

"Get the facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

However, JT more than frequently skips step one

By Jack Thompson's logic shouldn't we be soon seeing a new generation of amazingly gifted athletes who grew up training to play sports using sports video games?

@ Lorenzo, yeah, realized that after I posted, my Wiimote for an edit button!

@kurisu

And the US military using giant mecha, man portable lasers, power armor, rail guns, mini-nukes, instant heal medipack, and have the same 5 or 6 faces in an army of hundreds of thousands. Not to mention the whole alien horde invasions, giant bugs, zombies, mutagenic plagues, and the giant Deus ex machina universe ending threats. Yep, video games are 'soooo' much like reality. [/end sarcasm]

We’ve seen more graphic content in any number of R-rated films.
No surprise here with his absurd claims, and that is pretty much all that needs to be said about this non-existent "controversy."

So we get more hypocrisy from him yet again, but I am not surprised considering how he deliberately dodges questions and points like that. Maybe it has something to do with reminding him of his "success" in cleaning up those industries...

Wonder how far in advanced he had that load of manure written out? I say he probably did another cut and paste job. Still, I'm looking forward to more LOLs at his expense!

I was carded just an hour ago- And I'm 29. In my ENTIRE life, I was never carded to get into a movie or to buy a DVD.

I can't take this man seriously anymor... Oh, wait, I could never take him seriously.

But still, I thought his ploy of crying to Zelnick's mommy was a pathetic attempt. This is just ridiculous. I, a 17 year old, plan to pick up a copy either today, or sometime this week. I also plan to NOT use the game as my own perverted means of digital sex. I intend to play the game like any well-adjusted teenager would.

Mr. Thompson, read my post. Several times. Maybe then you'll get the idea

Strip clubs =/= Porn.

If the mere mention and imagery of the main hall of a strip club was automatically pornographic, there would be next to zero TV-13 TV shows on basic channels. At ANY time of day. If strip clubs were porn, then CSI has been corrupting children long before GTA3 was even released.

I'm sorry, Mr. Thompson, but boners do not corrupt children. Images of actual SEX have the POTENTIAL to corrupt children. Last i checked, sex acts don't take place on the main hall area of strip clubs, in real life or in video games.

Did you read that five times now? That's a good boy. Run along now.

You can't get actual sex from a strip club. That's what brothels are for. Strip clubs just tease men. In fact, strip clubs exploit men far more than the women because they freely give away their hard earned cash so a woman can shake her goodies at him.

It's like waving plastic fruit in front of a starving bum at the street.

I hate Take-Two now. Because they don't do squat when it comes to slamming jack so hard with lawsuits. Jack's broken his agreement so many times yet stays scilenced still.......

"Further, indictments should be handed down against Wal-Mart, Best Buy, GameStop, and all other retailers distributing this game to minors at their retail stores, openly, to kids who are only SEVENTEEN!!."

um, M for Mature 17+

I wonder how Jack would react if for GTA V, they choose to make Vice City look like the real Miami?

As for learning about how to work the parental controls, please vist this site:

http://visualwebcaster.com/DSSimon/47485/event.html
(link gotten from this site: http://www.gamingwithchildren.com/ )

The first link features a webcast in which Andrew Bub, the gamerdad, explains that both Vista and every major console out there now have Parental Controls. There are also documents you can download to learn how to do this.

As for the game's sexual content as portrayed by the NSFW video supplied above I must admit that I laughed at the end. The design and execution of this was very tacky done, I think - not at all worthy of an AAA-release as the GTA IV game strives to be. And if anyone uses these scenes as digital pron I have to say that their lives are miserable and sad or give them a a few to pointers to places on the web that have real porn.

The ESRB rating do state *strong sexual content* as well as *partial nudity*. This is absolutely true I feel. And what's not to understand? It means what it means. It is in the game. Deal with it. If you don't like it, then don't buy it. Period. The ESRB has also rated this game *mature* which means that anymore from the age of 17 and up can get this game.

As for the retailer's carding thing, some stores in Denmark do the same, although they are not required to do so by law as they are in say Finland, Germany or the UK, I think. In the US, if a mom or dad don't want their 15-year old sons to play GTA IV, these people won't be playing the game.
The same goes if a mom or dad says it's OK; their 15-year olds will then be playing the game. The important thing here must always be that it is up to the parents to decide whether or not they will let their 15 year olds play GTA IV or other M-rated titles.

This game, GTA IV, is certainly not pornographic. It is not a porno game like some other games I've heard off. (most of them seem to come from japan, though...). The game is not centered around getting characters to undress, or to perform unspeakably sexual acts. You can, if you want to, but then again, if you don't, don't. In fact, I have seen more nudity in some Danielle Steel tv-films or in soap operas or in Dallas & Dollars.
In some Danish family shows they even show more partial nudity than there is in the supplied video.

Again, if the GTA IV game were a movie, no one would care...

^ Actually, I think you pretty much summed it up, though, well, not all Americans are like that, I know I'm not, but the likes of Jack Thompson and his ilk are the ones that make us look bad.

he's crazy they have strict control on the sex in the game and control over everything else by me if a kid knows right from wrong very well and really is at least a teenager he should be allowed to play it below 17 years old as long as the parents decide when he's ready

Seriously? No shit, Polio?


That is insanity on the same level as... what Jack Thompson usually says.

First Bully vs. thalidomide, now this!

Who the hell does Jack Thompson think he is? He thinks this game is the worse thing to happen to children since "polio"? He needs to pay attention to the REAL issues affecting children...like sex offenders or drug abuse, or bullying in schools...not video games.

There are far worse games out there, that would give Grand Theft Auto IV an "E" rating.

Manhunt is one such game...and there are movies that are far worse than ANY game in the GTA series...yet Jack Thompson doesn't pay those any attention...he doesn't even look at the REAL issues affecting children...I'm surprised there are actually people SUPPORTING him in this sick cause. ¬.¬

I wouldn't be surprised if he just sits at home 24/7 and plays Grand Theft Auto to point out each and every single flaw so that he can "claim" that "Grand Theft Auto is the main and ONLY cause of problems in the world today."

If Jack Thompson is indeed reading this message...he needs to understand that there are some members on gamefaqs, (n00bs to say the least) that act 1000 times more mature than he does.

[...] The front page GamePolitics has nothing but stories about GTA IV, and this one I found (which wasn’t a big surprise) has everyone’s favorite Florida Attorney, Jack Thompson, foaming at the mouth about the game’s content, and wants everyone locked up. How can this guy have a job? Bookmark on: These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]

this is bull***t if he doesnt like it he doesnt need to play it or pay attention. but in a sence he has to because he has to find something to say he did his F*****G job. HE just wants to DEMEANE us and call anyone who plays it perverts.

DAMMNIT!!!!!!

BULLSHIT!!!!!!