Hey! I can play that same game, too:

There’s only one word to describe parents who would raise their children Catholic: Disgraceful. Remember, God hates fags.

It always irks me when they say "teach". Who needs to be taught how to shoot a cop?

1. Get a gun.
2. Locate a cop.
3. Point gun at said cop.
4. Pull the trigger (May need to take safety off).
5. ???
6. Profit

These steps don't guarantee that someone will actually hit their target, but GTA sure as hell won't make a person any more accurate. I could understand it if they would say, "GTA gives them the idea to shoot cops," but "teach"? That's just ridiculous.

Oh, and good luck getting away with it... however, it is far easier to get away with it in GTA, though.

@ Jeff

You being attacked and belittled here is akin to me going to a Christian Pancake Breakfast and informing people that I'm An Athiest. Just because we both like pancakes isnt going to cause the criticism to stop. Its going to happen. If you don't contribute to the Stereotypes that we are generalizing here, then good for you, you are helping your cause, but until I can, without a doubt, walk past any christian I know without fear of being "saved," I will continue to generalize, because it's what I've experianced.

Damn site I'm trying to comment on the article but it isn't working.

I guess the hookers were too old for them.

Buh-zing

Dennis : in fact, the writer is Brent Bozell, and this is his latest weekly entertainment column published on his organizations' website (Media Research Center and Parent Television Council). See here : http://www.mediaresearch.org/BozellColumns/entertainmentcolumn/2008/col2...

Note that his (syndicated) columns usually appear on many other newspapers and websites.

IMO, you should renamed this entry's title "PTC's Brent Bozell condemns Grand Theft Auto IV", or simply "Brent Bozell condemns Grand Theft Auto IV"

@Rhade:
No not too old, just too... female.

I'd love to play a game where you play Cardinal Richelieu overseeing the deaths of thousands of 'heretics'.

This is the religion I was brought up in and after 12 years of catholic school, I can proudly say I have no fondness or care for religion as an institution.

"but they can legally sell video games to children that contain pornographic content or that teach children how to gun down cops."

It is disgraceful. Let's instead teach them how to molest choir boys.

The days of the Church pushing ethics are long gone, shove it.

The Church still exists today because of children being brainwashed while they're still impressionable, when they rant and rave about GTA or Rockstar they're simply holding a mirror up to themselves.

At least Rockstar have the decency to pretend they're not interested in the children's market.

COPYPASTA LOL

Well, the Catholic church was once known for declaring the earth was flat...

I'll say this much - if you're going to lash out, do it at the author.

Don't lambast the rest of the Catholic community - I know plenty of fellow Catholics who think people like Bozell and his ilk are nothing more than misguided douchebags using religion to mask their own bias and paranoia.

@ Twin-Skies

Unless you have sired a child every time you had sex (in wedlock, of course), you are not a true Catholic.

I find it funny to see families of supposed "devout" Catholics who have been married for decades with 1-2 children ONLY. I doubt these people only had sex 1-2 times...

@foghorn6446

"1. Get a gun.
2. Locate a cop.
3. Point gun at said cop.
4. Pull the trigger (May need to take safety off).
5. ???
6. Profit"


What's funny is that actions like these were a lot more prevalent before computers were around. Two timelines that come to mind are the Wild West, and the Prohibition.

I'll contact them later,

btw. the Catholic Church needs absolute proof for scientific theory before accepting it. I.E the Galileo controversy. Galileo just speculated that the earth was not the center of the universe. But didn't have any proof to show it. As far as my understanding goes. i can look more into it later if somebody wants

While I dont have a problem with catholics or religion in general (I am an Athiest) I do have a problem when they decide to push thier morals and beliefs on other people.

I once had a converstation with a staunch catholic who, upon learning that I was an Athiest, implied that because of that, I was also a Homosexual, Sadist, and had no Moral Compass whatsoever. All of which is completely untrue. At which point, he asked me to come to his church to be "saved" or be condemned to hell for eternity. While I should have just knocked his ass out, I simply responded, "I'd rather spend an eternity in hell with free thinking individuals than in heaven with mindless sheep like you."

Anyways, attempting to change anyone's behaviors or censor anything based on your own religious beliefs is just wrong.

I've seen plenty of under-aged kids in R-rated movies as well.

NEWSFLASH: IT'S. THE. PARENTS. Don't blame the parents, as you should, then turn right around and blame the retailers. I'm sure at most retailers you'd get fired for selling an M-rated game to a child. You can't deny a parent buying the game for a minor any more than you can deny a parent and a child access to an R-rated film. Damn this pesky freedom thing.

And as someone else said, yeah okay, it teaches kids (who shouldn't even be playing it and it's entirely their parents fault if they are) to shoot cops. All that auto-targeting sure is a precise and realistic simulator of shooting a real gun.

@GodsLabRat

I was kind of enjoying all the jokes personally, but I have got to say that you are absolutely right.

The MPAA has a far, FAR higher failure rate than the ESRB.

And seriously guys, lay off the pedophilia stuff. That is neither here, nor there. Well, it's there, but definitely not here.

-_-

You can't condemn the catholic church for what a few members of it do, otherwise you're acting like most game critics, who point to one or two crazy people that are the exception, not the rule, and generalize based off that. You might not agree with the catholic chruch, I don't, personally, but you can't hate them as a whole for a few whacked-out priests any more than you can hate all human beings for a few murderers, or all gamers for a few freaks who really can't tell the difference between gaming and reality.
We're all about truth and tolerance here, people, let's not fall into the trap of name-calling and hate because someone who happens to write for a catholic source decided to hate on GTA. You don't hate Florida because JT lives there, so why hate a religion because someone you (and I) think is a jerk believes in it?

Woh, slow down there you fanatic cult member you. If i remember correctly your religion has killed about millions of innocents more than GTA IV ever could. So you just shut your trap and let the one without sin throw the first stone. Goddamn pedophile warmonger trying to pass moral judgment.

atleast he's not calling videogame bloggers as losers

@ Nessmk2

I disagree, I can condemn the catholic church because the catholic church as a whole has driven many members to believe the whole "Missionary" style religious Ideology. This causes Many, many, many members of the catholic church that I talk to (About 50% of the Catholics that I meet) to become bigoted, ignorant, and sometimes very agressive in thier attempts to "Save" me from myself. I can condemn and will continue to condemn any religious entity that encourages its members to act in such a zealotous fashion.

@Zerodash

It never ceases to amaze me just how willing you are to justify offensive speech directed at people who, quite frankly, have nothing to do with those who are doing this "scare-mongering" or "unprovoked attacking".

It would be far more mature (egads!) for people to just turn away and focus on real issues. It would also make a better impression of the gaming community. As it stands though the mud-slinging and blatantly offensive comments do EXACTLY the opposite of this and demonstrate a low level of maturity in handling.

Your problem, as I consistently see it, is that you're not on the receiving end of these offensive attacks by your fellow gamers based on what you believe. It is one thing to call a single person a hypocrite but when you veer off into generalities about a GROUP then you're really going to hit nerves with a lot of people. Unfortunately, you're pretty blind to this point of view based on your justification of these attacks. It's like an anti-gaming opponent justifying his criticism of gamers to, as you've demonstrated towards people of faith, gamers. It CAN'T be done.

It's not about us being open minded and accepting of criticism -- which should be constructive which it's not in this thread. It's about saying, "Look... It's ok for me to attack you and your beliefs based on the speeches and actions of others." That is EXACTLY what anti-game critics do and when you try to justify it you only make your argument that much less effective.

What's worse is that, unlike anti-game critics, we have something in common: we're gamers. That makes it that much harder to take and when you spout off offensive comments at us. As I'm sure you don't appreciate the criticism you get as a gamer from the anti-gaming community we really don't really appreciate the criticism we get from the anti-faith groups.

It's not as black and white as you'd like to think.

How can this game teach you how to gun down cops? I've never lost a game of darts in the game, but I suck at it real life.

@ Jeff

Where do you think these Generalizations come from? They come from a large group of people observing the same situations over a long period of time. Thats why instead of getting on somebody for generalizing, you should be working from the inside getting people to break free of any behavior that fits the generalization. I've been the target of enough phsyical and emotional attacks at the hands of Christian Zealots to know that I have to be wary when I am near them. I've had my car vandalized, objects thrown at me, and I've been physically assaulted by "Christians" because I happen to wear my opinion on my sleeve. If that isn't enough evidence to criticize an entire group, than I don't know what is.

@Valdearg

Have you been attacked by people who frequent this blog? Have you been belittled on here?

I have no problem with someone defending their point of view. However, I do take issue when someone justifies their personal attacks on another -- Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, Buddhist, etc. -- because there is no reason to attack someone for something you disagree with. I am sorry you've gone through that with the Christians you've met, but it is completely unfair to assume all Christians, myself included, are like that.

It's akin to me saying that all Agnostics and Atheists believe in survival of the fittest and will kill me at the first possible opportunity they get. You know what though? It's not true. I've met and known a lot of Atheists and Agnostics who are hostile toward what I believe but that doesn't cloud my view of those particular groups. I KNOW there are people from those groups who aren't like that and, I guess this is where you and I differ, I know some who AREN'T like that.

Generalities can be made of every group. Just because you have "evidence" to support them doesn't make it true.

*I should have explained my last post better. * What I was going for is that just because you like video games and we share that interest, it isnt going to stop anyone from being critical of an opposing belief.

@Rhade

This is easy to answer. Christianity isn't about how your acts, it's about your faiths. It's very possible that he shares SOME (not all because some badly interprets) of the beliefs without acting like the bigots who call themselves Christians. You don't have to scream "God will bring salvation to mankind" to be Christian.

Those we give labels or membership card on their forehead like you say are those we hear about. If we hear about them without knowing them, it means that they caused some uproar. And therefore, not necessarily the best models.

When it comes to religion, always take it with a grain of salt.

@Valdearg

I thank you for being kind enough to provide me with a suitable and logical discussion on the subject.

@Rhade

I think this is where a lot of people are getting confused at the defensiveness of a lot of Christians/Catholics on here. I take no offense when a joke is made about something that has happened in the PAST. That is, at this point, fact. Those kinds of jokes are satirical and don't affect me since I wasn't there to be involved in any of those events. The only jokes I've taken offense to are ones that represent the PRESENT and actually do affect me.

I have no problem with someone making a point about the Christian Crusades or the Catholic Inquisition because I wasn't there and that is beyond my responsibility or the scope of anything that I'm involved with being as it was centuries in the past.

I only take issue with the present simply because it affects me in the here and now. I appreciate what Valdearg has said to me because, though he doesn't agree with what I believe, has stated and made clear to me that he understands what the point is I'm trying to get across and he wasn't insulting or condescending about his point of view.

I'm very accepting of opposing points of view but the moment that point of view comes across as condescending then all credibility is lost. My feeling, with Valdearg at least, is that he is the unfortunate victim of condescending Christians. What I want is an awareness that not all Christians are like that and I want the condescending and egotistically superior people to stop with their propoganda.

I'm all for pointing out the flaws in what someone says but to attack what they believe as being the source of what they say is not right. Especially saying all people who believe this must be of the same opinion as this person. I'm Christian, I don't agree AT ALL with what this guy says. But it feels like I'm coming under attack on this thread by proxy based on my beliefs.

I just ask for consideration for the others on here who are of Christian or Catholic faith.

Seriously, these people have no idea what they're talking about. None of them do.

Not only is R and M restricted to the same age, but you're more likely to be stopped trying to buy an M-rated game than an R-rated movie. Not once have I not been asked to show ID for buying any M game. But I have gotten into see Rambo and the new AVP movie unchecked.

If you want all this inappropriate material to be kept away from kids than the Bible would have to be restricted to the sale of minors.

@Jeff

Well said. I completely agree with you.

And guys, we don't need another Pandralisk.

@Chalts

If you ever fired a gun, you'd know that's exactly how it works. DUH! :D

@ Jeff

I'm not going to stop critisizing those who irrationally attack gamers, gay people, science (evolution), the constitution (separation of church and state). Why should I not be critical of an individual or organization just because it is a religion?

Again, why not focus your anger on those people who make your faith look bad? If I were a Christian, I would be fighting the zealots who are ruining the religion and using it to force their ideals on others.

And are you denying that so many of these anti-free-speech groups are Christian based?

Nobody should be considered above critisism for any reason- least of all because they are religious...

It's much harder to buy an M-rated game than it is to get into an R-rated movie; all you need to do to accomplish the latter is buy tickets to a G, PG or PG 13 movie and then sneek in. Sometimes you can even just buy a ticket to an R-rated movie without showing ID.

As a side note, I really think Take Two/Rockstar should start suing pundits and others for lying about their games.

@Zerodash-

Morality is an issue, but it's not the exclusive claim or Catholics, or even Christians, or even Theists (last I checked, athiests also care about morality, even if their reasons differ).

Did you even READ the article?

Never have understood and I never will understand what entertainment has to do with morality. Aside from the fact that people have different morals, entertainment is meant to... THAT'S RIGHT! They're meant to entertain, not to guide all the little children through life! That's what PARENTS ARE FOR! What a discovery! Here's a list of things videogames aren't for:

.Coasters
.Rolemodels for children
.Substitute parents
.Life lessons
.Snack plates

WOW! IT'S SO SIMPLE, YET NO-ONE SEEMS TO PAY ATTENTION! :D !

@Zerodash

What I am saying is that everyone has a morality to which they feel accountable, and the reason I said that was to illustrate how the points they author was making (right or wrong) have very little to do with the Catholic Church itself.

Again, did you even read the article?

There’s only one word to describe parents who would buy this game for their children: Disgraceful.

He's Actually right there.

@ Zerodash

"Are you saying that Christian activism is not a major part of the “culture war” that is being waged over objectionable media? I missed the atheist protest of the Harry Potter books…"

I actually LOL'ed at that. That was awesome...

@ Jeff

Fair enough, but you side stepped my point.

If you can't take it get out of the proverbial kitchen. We ALL take shots based on more than just religion... Ethnicity, native country, sex, etc. all play into stereotypes that have been drawn by society as a whole.

If what's being said effects you then you need to deal with your own internal demons on the matter. Take that as you will.

Sorry for bashing the run of the mill Catholic (no apologies to the Vatican).

Anyway can someone refresh my memory what type of church was it that blew a fuse over Resistnace? (I know that they're completely unrelated to this story and I know it was the church of england but are they protestant catholic methodist or what?)

Isnt the C of E its own religious entity?

@mogbert

I’ve found that people who try to convert me have trouble following my twisty logic.
“I’m going to hell if I don’t convert? I’m sorry, but my religion teaches that those who try and push their views on others will be going to hell. I’d tell you more, but I fear for my soul.”

“Have I been reborn? No, I got it right on the first try.”

“Have I accepted the lord as my personal savior? I’d think that was between me and him, don’t you think? Aren’t you just being nosey now? I don’t go around asking you what you’ve done in your personal time, do I?”

Mogbert, you officially ROCK TEH INTERWEBZ

this game will teach me how to gun down cops?

shit my mate glen had better watch out eh? Honestly... there is no way i would be able to murder another human being in cold blood... and no videogame, no matter how violent is likely to change that.

BOOM yeah take dat Spam Filta!!!

@kieth and others

why is this this game unsuitable for kids? when was this line drawn that tells me i cant play gta because of my age? i have played gta and guess what? i found it mildly tame .... i understand if it contains hardcore porn but vilence? i am unfased by virtual vilence its just a game

Religious institiutions? Whatever. Amazing even how they can lie and be so naive. Pornographic material in games? Ha.

[...] The Grand Theft Auto whiney train of whiney whiners continues to chug its way to Bitchpants Station. The PTC’s Brent Bozel calls GTA IV a new “cultural low,” in a rather dismaying post that actually claims the game is worse than the sexualization of a 15-year old girl: Outrage comes easy at the sight of 15-year-old Disney Channel billion-dollar phenomenon Miley Cyrus - known to screaming eight-year-old girls as Hannah Montana - appearing barebacked with a come-hither smile in a photo shoot for Vanity Fair. Did no one understand how the slinky satin-sheet photo would be greeted by the eyes of teenage boys - or men twice her age? Parents are covering the eyes of their Disney-drenched little girls while their role model has a train wreck. Do we need another Britney Spears Show? But teenage boys are going wilder this week over a more dangerous cultural low … [...]

@Nith

The game.

In my freshman year in high school, I did a paper on video game violence, as a sort of practise for our junior thesis. I remember finding information that the rating system for both movies and TV shows weren't mandatory, but, rather, forced. Maybe I'm wrong, either my source of info or my memory...

Meh, just read the headers on those blog posts. If it isn't supporting "good catholic beliefs" above all else, it's call for an outrage.

@gs2005
"Well, the Catholic church was once known for declaring the earth was flat…"

Until the late 1990's the church still claimed that the earth was the center of the universe...

For the last 2000 years they claimed to be the great moral authority, while advocating and perpetrating the torture and murder of hundreds of thousands if not millions of heretics... I would list some specific practices but it turns my stomach just thinking about them...

When I hear the church say something is immoral, I get this belief that it is moral and normal and must be encouraged...

And here come the inevitable 10 year old idiots who think they know anything about religion coming here and saying that the church is the root of all ignorance because a few misguided individuals speak for all of us.

Can you spot the false statement in the above paragraph?

I wonder how many First-borns became atheist or questioned religion after seeing The Prince of Egypt

I was just a little kid but I remember thinking that that was unfair and that they didn't do anything

oh... this is rich coming from the CATHOLIC CHURCH!

 WTF?!?!? it does´nt teach u anything, if u want to kill someone, her´s how:

1. Find, get or steal a gun 

2. Locate the person u want to kill

3. Remove the safety pin

4. Aim at the person

5. Pull the trigger

6. RUN!