ACLU Criticizes Military Recruitment, including America's Army Game
ACLU Criticizes Military Recruitment, including America's Army Game
May 14, 2008
A report issued yesterday by the American Civil Liberties Union criticizes US miltary recruitment practices, including the use of the popular America's Army game franchise as a tool to attract potential recruits.
In Soldiers of Misfortune , The ACLU maintains that the US has:
...failed to uphold its commitments to safeguard the rights of youth under 18 from military recruitment and to guarantee basic protections to foreign former child soldiers... U.S. military recruiting practices... target children as young as 11...
The ACLU's claims submitted to the United Nations' Committee on the Rights of the Child. the group oversees compliance with a U.N. protocol which requires countries to shield those under 18 from military recruitment. The ACLU's Jennifer Turner said:
Military recruitment tools aimed at youth under 18, including Pentagon-produced video games, military training corps, and databases of students' personal information, have no place in America's schools...
Of America's Army, the ACLU report says:
The Army uses an online video game, called “America’s Army,” to attract young potential recruits at least as young as 13, train them to use weapons, and engage in virtual combat and other military missions... According to Army personnel testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, the goal of the then-new recruiting effort that included the “America’s Army” video game was to penetrate youth culture.. the Army’s video-game development team found that about 60 percent of recruits had played... more than five times a week, and four out of 100 said they had joined the Army specifically because of the game.
The full ACLU report is available here.
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LOGINGamePolitics ShoutBox
Posted 07/20/08 at 07:08pm
GRIZZAM PRIME: -he's disbarred. I was thinking Leland Yee, since he has actual medical credentials and all, not to mention political power.
GRIZZAM PRIME: -he's disbarred. I was thinking Leland Yee, since he has actual medical credentials and all, not to mention political power.
Posted 07/20/08 at 07:03pm
GRIZZAM PRIME: Well shadow, every time I look at the shoutboard I see JT over and over, and I'm wondering who'll be spoken of the most when
GRIZZAM PRIME: Well shadow, every time I look at the shoutboard I see JT over and over, and I'm wondering who'll be spoken of the most when
Posted 07/20/08 at 06:59pm
Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of : Point of relevancy there Grizzam? j/w
Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of : Point of relevancy there Grizzam? j/w
Posted 07/20/08 at 06:48pm
GRIZZAM PRIME: So, in the future, who's initials will we use the most? LY(Leeland Yee)?
GRIZZAM PRIME: So, in the future, who's initials will we use the most? LY(Leeland Yee)?
Posted 07/20/08 at 03:52pm
Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of : @PHOENIXZERO: IDK, why don't you ask him over e-mail?
Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of : @PHOENIXZERO: IDK, why don't you ask him over e-mail?
Posted 07/20/08 at 01:47pm
Silencets: I might miss JT when he's disbarred.....nah I won't
Silencets: I might miss JT when he's disbarred.....nah I won't
Posted 07/20/08 at 11:45am
PHOENIXZERO: I wonder how many times Jack has seen The Dark Knight so far....
PHOENIXZERO: I wonder how many times Jack has seen The Dark Knight so far....
Posted 07/19/08 at 11:32am
Rodrigo Ybáñez García: Don´t you think that maybe Fat Princess will generate a lot of controversy?
Rodrigo Ybáñez García: Don´t you think that maybe Fat Princess will generate a lot of controversy?
Posted 07/19/08 at 08:46am
Paul T. Farinelli: To say that he did say it seriously, considering all of the rhetoric that he's spewed before.
Paul T. Farinelli: To say that he did say it seriously, considering all of the rhetoric that he's spewed before.
Posted 07/19/08 at 08:45am
Paul T. Farinelli: Apparently it was a joke on JT's part. He acts as though we all should've realized that, but it's not to big of a stretch
Paul T. Farinelli: Apparently it was a joke on JT's part. He acts as though we all should've realized that, but it's not to big of a stretch
Posted 07/19/08 at 07:14am
LuNaTiC: JT was not loved as a child. What jack ass forgot to pull out when creating this abomination??
LuNaTiC: JT was not loved as a child. What jack ass forgot to pull out when creating this abomination??
Posted 07/18/08 at 10:32pm
Paul T. Farinelli: Seriously, i haven't been so awe-struck by someone's sheer audacity in...ever!
Paul T. Farinelli: Seriously, i haven't been so awe-struck by someone's sheer audacity in...ever!
Posted 07/18/08 at 09:45pm
Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of : And I can take "No" for an answer.
Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of : And I can take "No" for an answer.
Posted 07/18/08 at 09:45pm
Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of : JT is such a tool. He thinks he can have his way just because he's a Christian. Listen up, Jackie-boy, I'm a Christian, too.
Shadow Darkman Anti-Thesis of : JT is such a tool. He thinks he can have his way just because he's a Christian. Listen up, Jackie-boy, I'm a Christian, too.
Posted 07/18/08 at 09:09pm
Paul T. Farinelli: Also, I must say that Jack honestly looks like a serial killer in that pic. (not saying he is one, just that he looks creepy)
Paul T. Farinelli: Also, I must say that Jack honestly looks like a serial killer in that pic. (not saying he is one, just that he looks creepy)
Posted 07/18/08 at 09:08pm
Paul T. Farinelli: Jace was apparently polite.
Paul T. Farinelli: Jace was apparently polite.
Posted 07/18/08 at 09:07pm
Paul T. Farinelli: I agree, it just seems like pure insanity that Jack would seriously say that to the man's face during an interview, one in which
Paul T. Farinelli: I agree, it just seems like pure insanity that Jack would seriously say that to the man's face during an interview, one in which
Posted 07/18/08 at 07:48pm
Jack Wessels: If not then... Damn...
Jack Wessels: If not then... Damn...
Posted 07/18/08 at 07:48pm
Jack Wessels: Hey Dennis, I know you can't share the videos JT sent you, but was there perhaps even a slight amount of sarcasm in his replies?
Jack Wessels: Hey Dennis, I know you can't share the videos JT sent you, but was there perhaps even a slight amount of sarcasm in his replies?
Posted 07/18/08 at 06:21pm
tallimar: ... news story so much as a punch line.
tallimar: ... news story so much as a punch line.
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Comments
Jesus Christ!
Ive played pretty much every violent videogame under the sun, fired everything from a BFG9000 to a Gears Sniper Rifle to an M4 Carbine in COD4, hand me a real weapon and I wouldnt have a clue where to start.
That's exactly what I think all the time!These meatheads know nothing of games.Don't they realize that the person you're playing as are PROGRAMED to shoot like professionally trained soldiers?
I've played tons of violent FPS's,and I suck at shooting,gosh dammit.*
if they joined because of a vid game than that right there explains why theres so many whiners in the military these days.
When i was in we actually had a guy do nothing but complain and say he wanted out.
he literally got by on a "Barely legal" basis for what he did until his 4 year contract was up...
also explains the all to high level of PTSD.... sheltered kids who think life is a clean trip really need to be kicked around a bit more. (not to say most cases aren't legit, but there is a guaranteed number that are bogus idgits whining just to get free benefits and out of the military)
@GrimCW
<blockquote>if they joined because of a vid game than that right there explains why theres so many whiners in the military these days.</blockquote>
Personally I'm skeptical of that. I doubt the game would cause anyone to join that wasn't already seriously considering it. I could easily see it serving as the final straw that made someone decided, but not the sole or main reason.
I find it odd that the ACLU would claim training by video game. There is no proof that a video game, especially one played with a keyboard and a mouse, is able to traing someone to use a weopon.
E. Zachary Knight
www.editorialgames.com
The report is about recruiting people younger than 18. I don’t think it is making a case that the game trains anyone how to effectively use a rifle or jump out of an airplane. I think its point is that the game shows under-aged players how actual army equipment is used in actual army activities, for the purpose of convincing them to actually join the army as soon as they turn 18.
Yeah, I have been troubled that they would use my favorite artforms of television and posters to recruit as well. Why do they have to abuse such wonderful art for these nefarious purposes.
E. Zachary Knight www.editorialgames.com
It's as if the american military is dependant on voluntary enlistment through it's own citizens, or something. It boggles the mind.
Someone has to join the military. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head and saying "You must join us now!" I don't know, maybe I don't see a problem with any of this because I come from a military family. The fact remains that the United States cannot remain a sovern nation without a military. So, ironically, the ACLU wants the army to stop targeting those under the age of 18 even though those same people will be the ones who join the military and protect their ability to have the rights they cherish at all.
Just another reason I stopped financially and morally supporting the ACLU. They've gone too far into anti America and as anti Americans. They used to be about protecting the Bill of Rights - unless it's that pesky Second, which they disavow. Now it;s a blatant attempt to destroy any and all institutions in this country that don't fit their political mold.
I could be wrong on this, but I could almost swear that you have to confirm click an agreement in the EULA that says that a user must be +18 to play.
Regardless, I'm not sure AA could really be considered what the ACLU is claiming. Because no matter the age of any given AA game player, the actual recruitment age for the military is still minimum 18.
More importantly, if AA is branded by the ACLU and the courts as being a violation of UN protocol, how are Posters, TV commercials, and Magazine adverts any different. And in those cases, isn't AA a preferred tool, as it is entirely voluntary to visit the Army's website and voluntarily download their game?
I'm all for the ACLU, but you can't protect people from their own choices. If people really join the army because of a video game, it's their choice, for good or bad. If you don't do your research it's your own fault for getting into something you didn't want to.
Now is the ACLU also claiming that those little green plastic soldiers are really a recruitment tool by the military. Sure they are not directly created by the military, but they wouldn't exist if the military didn't exist.
E. Zachary Knight
www.editorialgames.com
I don't see whats the problem with the Military using video games for recruitment purposes. It can just as easily make someone NOT want to join the military, then it can make them want to.
I mean, lets say your averaging a .5:1 kill death ratio, do you think it would be good to join the military if you sucked at the game?
It can be just as much of a deterent as it can a motivator.
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE ACLU?!
They used to defend free speech but now they're just apparently run by a bunch of liberal jackasses with an axe to grind. They need some serious reform.
Oh screw the ACLU. They are running to tattle on the Army to the UN? Children should know about the military and all of their options before they are 18. In a country where college or other specialized training can cost over 100k, high school children coming from bad families should know there is hope. Sure the hope is not as easy as using your parents cash to join a frat, but it still is hope.
Wait, people under 18 have the right to be protected from military recruiters?
Damn, if only I'd known that ten years ago.It's not about advertising to private citizens by a private company, it's about recruiting underaged people by the state. You may see a difference between these two, or you may not, but if you are serious about wanting an explanation, please read the report.
I don't see what's the big deal here. So the Army is using a videogame to attract recruits. It's their job. Isn't this game rated Mature? Anyone who would be playing this game is probably at the enlistment age of 18 or older anyway.
As for computer games, they seem way down at the bottom of the list of evil recruiting practices...
I thought that the ACLU was all about freedom of speach. Am I wrong?
This is why I find the ACLU so repulsive...they are more concerned with their own agenda than "liberty"
In this case they're basically saying people should have the "liberty" to not have the option to be exposed at all to a video game. Is that really a civil liberty?
I know people think it's different because it's the military, but why doesn't this apply to any other game as well? Shouldn't my kids have the liberty to not have other kinds of violence advertised to them as well? If you take this logic to its full end, then no game developer would be allowed to advertise their violent products anywhere that a child might see it. This is not civil liberties, folks.
I've always wondered what these groups that cry foul about people recruiting for the military. It is, after all, a job that one willing chooses to take, just like a fireman, policeman, lawyer, burger flipper, janitor, ect. If they don't want military recruiters to talk to high school and college students they they must also ban colleges and job recruiter from also attempting to recruit people on school grounds. Do they exclude the military because it's a dangerous job? Perhaps, but isn't also a fire fighter, police officer or a Paramedic a dangerous job? Maybe they should stop those groups from trying to recruit people as well. Maybe it's because they think people who join are locked into a contract, but aren't many actors, musicians, and government employees locked into contracts?
Personally, I think that the ACLU thinks that American GI's are a bunch of mouth breathing rednecks who were given the choice of either Army or Jail, or worse yet, think it is like the brutal conscription on the Russain military, and that anyone who goes it will either end up dead or a sadistic murderer.
And this is why I think the ACLU can kiss my 4th generation military... family.
Don't you think it's wrong that tax money goes to creating a propaganda tool directed at children which aims at turning them into soldiers(killers). Yes killers, soldiers are killers as in they kill, you might say they do it for the greater good. I say whatever i still don't want my kids running around gunning down muslims and communists in rl. I don't want my child to be a killer. Don't disregard me as the typical hippie, trust me i hate ethics and morals, it really hurts to write this but.. Some things are just plain wrong, please think of the children. Wow, I really hate myself for writting that.
Good thing the game is so crappy that it will most likely fail at recruiting a single kid.
Bottom line: make games not propaganda. Let kids be kids, and soldiers be soldiers.
There is nothing wrong with the Army advertising the Army with a videogame. An armed forces is essential for any modern nation to protect the country and the country's interests elsewhere and it's their job to attract recruits to carry out that purpose. And the game is not targeting children. It's targeting people at ages 17 or older, people who are close to enlistment age. Besides, anyone who has played this game and joined the Army had probably seriously considered joining long before even touching the game. No one would be stupid enough to join the Army because of a game.
"it really hurts to write this but.. Some things are just plain wrong, please think of the children. Wow, I really hate myself for writting that."
I really hate you for writing that too.
"Bottom line: make games not propaganda. Let kids be kids, and soldiers be soldiers."
You seem to be forgeting that most gamers age anywhere from 18 to 45 years. The game isn't targeting kids.
(And there you go again, telling people what they can and can't say....)
Hmm.. Does this UN protocol really ban advertisement though? I've not read the thing yet, but from the ACLU's own description, it sounds kinda like it only bans having 16 year olds sign a recruitment contract. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.
But, yea, if this so-called civil right really is meant to "protect" the children from pro-military speech and/or propaganda, does this mean we need to ban parades with military bands, history books, Air Force and Navy air shows, recruitment posters and TV spots, T-shirts, action figures, etc..? And even if it weren't taken to that extreme, wouldn't censoring minors' acesss to the game still violate their Constitutional right to view it (plus the subsequent penumbral right to formulate their own ideas)?
Either way, you couldn't ask for a better demonstration of newspeak than the ACLU trying to squash an American civil liberty in favor of enforcing a UN edict..
everyone knows America's Army is supposed to be a recruiting tool...it just ended up being a really good game too. I've pumped in nearly 1,000 hours of the game and I have no intentions to join the army once I turn 18.
I have been an member of the ACLU for well over a decade now, and I am a little bothered by some of the posts here.IMO , "sorvin," you've edged out contenders like "JimK,"
"thefremen," and "GryphonOsiris" for the most ignorant,
backward, anti-ACLU comment on this board so far. (And considering the
competition, that's really saying something!)
It may be different where you live, but where I am from, using "communist" as a general insult became passé back when we won the cold war. Like, 20 years ago. McCarthyism just isn't as funny as it used to be to some of us, I guess.
Much more importantly, the ACLU is about as diametrically opposed to the tenants of communism as possible. Communism is about serving the community's wants and needs, even at the expense of the individual's rights. The ACLU is about protecting the individual's rights from the wants and needs of the community. If you are actually against communism, and not just using it as a blanket insult, you should love the ACLU.
Yet I do encourage you (and all the other ACLU bashers here) to object to this report, and to the ACLU in general, as strongly and as actively as your conscious demands, so long as you are honest and truthful. If you resort to ignorant, off-the-cuff insults, however, or insist on propagating your own misunderstandings of what the ACLU does and stands for, someone ought to call you out on it.
I am grateful that there are soldiers who protect our country for foreign attacks. I am also grateful that there are lawyers who protect our First Amendment rights from people like you.
All lawyers are Jack Thompson, just like everyone in the military is LynndieEngland
America's Army is a simulation. It does teach about guns in the way you can learn a lot about cars from Forza but not so much Ridge Racer. I do think the ACLU is incorrect in their interpretation of this UN rule, though. It doesn't seem to ban promoting the military to those under 18, only actually signing them up.
The essential objection here is that they are trying to get people to get people to sign up for the military because it's cool without really thinking about the implications. If you saw the police trying to recruit kids in high schools, maybe they'd object to that as well.
CAPTCHA sucks by the way, it took me multiple tries to get the characters right
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