Audio Alert: SCMRPG Creator Danny Ledonne, Jack Thompson on Web Radio Show Tonight
Audio Alert: SCMRPG Creator Danny Ledonne, Jack Thompson on Web Radio Show Tonight
May 24, 2008
Danny Ledonne, creator of the controversial Super Columbine Massacre RPG game has posted a message on Facebook concerning a radio interview this evening:On Saturday, May 24th at 7pm EST, Danny Ledonne will appear on Free Talk Live radio to discuss his completed documentary "Playing Columbine: a true story of videogame controversy".Joining him during the show will be attorney and activist Jack Thompson, one of the interviewees from the film. Ledonne and Thompson have previously appeared separately on the show; Thompson was also the first FTL guest to hang up on the hosts. The upcoming program can be streamed at http://www.freetalklive.comand the archive will be available online as a free .mp3 download after the show.
GP: I've seen the final version of the film and it's quite good. We hope to have a review posted soon.
UPDATE: The two-hour program can be heard in mp3 format here.
Comments
I'd make a comment about how both of these people are ass-hats who shouldn't get anymore time in the spotlight.....but this is going to be great
Reno to Thompson "I'm only interested in virile men. That’s why I'm not attracted to you." This kids, is what we call a grammatical smack down
I'm off to an unexpected dinner so I'll pick up the free download of it. :P
Wow, this is going to be epic fail. What are they going to do, argue with each other and get angry for an hour?
Hoping all goes well, but since Jack's on that won't be happening.
I think this time Jack is gonna be really desperated to try to prove all his ridiculous points against games. I really hope he screw it hard this time.
This is in spanish :lol http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/
Here's hoping that ledonne has been reading GP, he can spend ages bitchslapping jack with our finely honed material.
Yeah, I do hope Ledonne wins the argument. JT is a dick. But that's mostly because I'd hate to see JT win anything. It doesn't sit well with me that he re-created a school shooting.
well according to Jack, Bully was going to be a school shooting video game.
I would have thought that just having been publicly branded a liar and a cheat would have dampened Jack's appetite for media attention. I guess that's what I get for thinking.
Wasn't Jack on Free Talk Radio before? I recall it ending badly
---You are likely to be eaten by a Grue.
Not only did Thompson leave early, the hosts actually suspected Thompson of orchestrating the one person who called in supporting him. It was quite funny.
And I'm sure he still believes he 'won' the debate...
Ah well, at least fox noise will be the only one to have him on after his fall from grace in Florida.
Hey if you guys are done with the popcorn pass it down this way willya? :P
I hope Ledonne points out somewhere that he's not part of the video game industry somewhere, since Jack will probably try to imply that he is.
I think this will be clear in my introduction to the film and the game at the top of the show... but Thompson is well-aware that I'm not exactly his nemesis, Strauss Zelnick.
I think assuming that Thompson is aware of something like that is giving him too much credit....
I can imagine Jack getting all Bill O'Reilly/Limbaugh. I hope my prediction is accurate...
Considering the hosts had no patience for Jack monopolizing the conversation and him taking control, I expect this one to be just as amusing. Are they taking bets on how long into the program he will last?
And it is also funny how this is pretty much the only coverage he can get nowadays.... Or who he is debating, but that doesn't surprise me considering how often Jack avoides industry repersentives...
Why does anyone care what Jack has to say? He's a dead man walking.
Considering Ian and Mark (the two hosts of Free Talk Live) are staunch libertarians in favor of no governmental interference and letting the market decide, I think Jack is venturing into some very unfriendly waters if he wants to start arguing that games need to be regulated.
I'm listening to the live show right now, I hope this goes well. By that I mean I hope Thompson doesn't make a fool of himself trying to prove himself right.
- The most frightening thing a person can ever hear: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
I'm listening to it right now, Jack hasn't come into yet but god these host guys are awesome. They're aren't being super soft on Ledonne but their not right-wing a**holes either. They actually understand what's being talked about. Jack's gonna get steamrolled.
Heheh, so far Thompson hasn't shown yet. He might have chickened out after realizing going on would be certain doom.
- The most frightening thing a person can ever hear: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
Hah he's not answering the phone! Jack, take the call.
Here it is! Hah they're already bringing up his Florida bar troubles.
Looks like he decided to show, this will be good.
- The most frightening thing a person can ever hear: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
Live now. Nothing interesting yet.
Liar. "It's just about the M-rated games." What about his whole campaign to "crush" T2 and Strauss Zelnick?
Listening now... this should get interesting when some calls come in....
hmm, thompson seems strangly subdued today, do you think the ruling is finally getting through?
He can tone down the loon when he's appearing on the media.
Freetalk is anything but "free." It's full of paid commercails.
Have to pay the bills someway.
Listening as well. I enjoy the fact that Jack is talking about the fact that government involvement is the last thing he wants, but he was a by-liner with legislation in Georgia. Furthermore, I am a little bothered by the host giving Mr. Thompson props for "finding out" about the judge signature issue, and making that sound like the reason he is under investigation by the Florida Bar Association. A little sloppy.
Well, if you listen to their agenda they are pretty leery towards the idea of goverment, so that is more their own joy out of seeing judges get messed with.
Hey look, brain scan studies! These again? Way to go JT. Way to go.....goddamnit Jack, Washington Post retracted the Cho/Counterstrike thing. Fucking idiot.
"the midbrain is where copycat behavior is found"...Why does he never actually cite these studies by the professionals doing it? A Freeman study or something similar.
Ledonne says something intelligent, JT craps out of his mouth. It's about what I expected. I must say Ledonne is holding his own and taking JT to task on the bile he's spewing.
I am so sick of the "Cho Seung Hui played Counter-Strike thing". When will someone talking to him just go outright and say it that he made this entire thing up based on a redacted Washington Post article that proved false. He spouts this as huge cred for his argument, when it is COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FALSE. AHHHHH!
Hah they started ganging up on him at the last minute. Can't wait to see how it goes in hour two when some of you guys call.
The Post redacted because they were pressured. Pressured by who? Idiot. They redacted because they were wrong. Which credible newspapers do when they get their facts wrong.
I can't get through... and I really want to ask Jack why its "petty and ignorant" to destroy a book of his (for charity) as a sign of disagreement, but its perfecctly reasonable for him to go his tirades and promise to detroy Rockstar and Take-Two.
I appreciated the fact that you called, but your question was a little random, and the fact that he hasn't done anything but made companies like Rockstar and Take Two more successful belied your point a litttle. I hope the next few callers stick to the logical attacks that show's Jack's actions benefit children in absolutely no way.
Jack doesn't understand that video game companies don't have the kind of influence over the retailers that he thinks he does. Companies have no say over how retailers sell their games and it'd be economic suicide for them to tell a store how their games are sold as they want to maximize their profit margin. Jack fails at business.
Well lookee there, oral and anal sex in GTA4. Jesus Christ, why do people let this man speak?
He lies again. Said sex doesn't exist. All you ever see is humping. Fully clothed. You see that in CSI. And that isn't porn. Unless the inclusion of foul language all of a sudden makes nonexistant sex exist, he's subscribing to the 'talking about it is as bad as doing it' mentality.
A hooker in the game goes talks about something, and somehow the sex act is actually viewable in game, Mr. Thompson? Ha ha ha, nice try.
I feel like I'm hogging the comment section, but sweet Christ, Jack is an asshole. Let the poor man make his comment without douchebagging everything up.
Hasn't Jack's kid been 15 years-old for the last three years?
Ah, beat me to it :-P.
Every 16th birthday he trades them in for one who just turned 15.
Jack can't do that, if he allowed people to finish their statements, he'd have nothing to say.
- The most frightening thing a person can ever hear: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
Ah, don't let a stuttering self-righteous 15-year-old try and make a point. Let's get a well read caller.
And listening to a fifteen-year-old with a voice that's deeper than mine was just a little disconcerting.
You rock Leeam (the caller from Canada), way to bring up movies and why he has nothing against the portrayal of women in them. Double standard FTW! Btw, I'm from Toronto, represent
@Tetsuna
Right there with you listening to the show. I wish someone could get through and simply point out that the actions Jack keeps pointing to are detrimental to the progress in the game. The whole point of a game or any entertainment is to accomplish something. Running someone over, etc. is counterproductive. I am glad that the young man came on, but the "it's just a videogame" defense does not cut it. Points for bringing up other media, but he could have hit deeper by pointing out the objectifying of women in religious texts, or the greatest literary works of the last 400-500 years. Btw, Jack said his 15 year old son went in and bought the game. I thought his son was 15 when San Andreas came out...does the kid not age, or has Jack forgotten a few birthdays?
There's also the point that he's pretty much admitting the stings aren't valid seeing as he's not a police officer... there's no way that he can confirm that they weren't fixed because of his vigilantism.
Wouldn't surprise me if he did forget, he's shown how much he cares.
LOL "Maybe after I get disbarred I'll make a website on How to get Disbarred" -Jack Thompson
Quote of the Month~!
I'm not listening to the thing, did he actually say that??
If so... wow... just wow... the denial...
You need a guide to get disbarred? And as for the website bit, what next, Jack getting a blog?
I'd suggest he get the user name "FirstAdmendmentRightsForMe_NoneForYou" while he still can!
If I was the only one in my house that was bringing home the bacon, damn skippy someone else would have to cook it. Jack wears an apron, not the pants, in his house.
More callers DAMMIT!
The attorney general's report he cites is over 20 years old. And no, it is still open to debate. Jack needs to update his info.
Now he's talking about the rape of nan King. What does that have to do with anything?!
And when did he ever represent women who had been raped or sexually asaulted? He's pulling stuff put of his ass.
Sorry Jack. I like my violent games, I like my porn and hell...I even like hentai. I am a well-adjusted individual and I respect women. Like you once said, "Go to hell a little more quietly."
Ileana Fuentas (sp?). Victim of spousal abuse, if I recall correctly. This was way, way back in day (1980s). As I recall, Jack tried to intimate that she was also sexually assaulted by Janet Reno in her jail cell.
Sorry for the misspelling. That's Ileana Fuster. If you want a good glimpse at Jack Thompson long before he fixiated on video games, then Google "Jack Thompson" and "Ileana Fuster."
The only statistically significant sample that Jack wants to hear is the one that helps him...
And wow, Mason must've read this thread, because he brought up the book burning issue, as Jack completely ignores it and just rants like a fool. The only thing he should take credit for is being an idiot.
Actually, Mason is a friend of mine on another gaming site - since my phone is now as dead as Jack's future legal career, I asked him to fill in for me. He phrased Jack's quote wrong, but he made a great effort.
I can't find it. Can someone link me to the archive with the MP3???
Go to the freetalk mainpage and click the Tune In link on the top menu bar. I had trouble finding it too.
The next few callers need to give up the geric "I'm a gamer....blah...blah...blah" opening, it does absolutely nothing as an argument. If anything, open with how the high school shooters Jack Thompson "claims" are gamers, are also statistically insignificant given the entire population of gamers.
Question, why are alll of the game-playing persons out there that DON'T go out of their way to kill people are considered an insignifigant statistical value? Furthermore, and this might be a personal issue, why on bloody earth are callers listing off their game-playing experiences? I've played blah, blah, blah, and it has done nothing to me. It is a safe assumption that if one is calling this to talk to Mr. Thompson that you have an intellectual interest (sometimes not completely well informed, but kudos for effort), vice a bloodthirsty need to gnash their teeth and snarl at said lawyer.
I find it funny. In Jack Thompson's mind, if you haven't commited a crime because of violent videogames, you aren't of significant statistical value. That man really loves his statistics.
- The most frightening thing a person can ever hear: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
"The babes are over here already, I'm not alone. I'm objectifying them as we speak" Nice to know he can joke about something the he takes so seriously when others try to talk about it.
- The most frightening thing a person can ever hear: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
I can't understand either of these callers. Are my speakers bad, is my hearing gone, or am I just going crazy?
NO...the last guy was pretty incoherent, and the guy from the UK was just a little quiet.
Someone should tell Mack that being a private security guard at the local mall doesn't really qualify as being in law enforcement.
Jack's getting owned by Mr. San Diego. Hey, a GP reference! Dennis is famous now!
Mr. San Diego is a contributing writer to GamePolitics.
Really...well damn, it just clicked. Andrew Eisen?
Yeah, that was me. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to go over the fact that the Indian brain scan study looks at the difference between the brains of normal kids and kids with disruptive behavioral disorders when playing violent games.
Even without getting all that out I still think you did a bang up job, even if Thompson refused to let you talk. Or listen to you. Or not lie. Or not be himself.
Just listened to the recording. Not as eloquent as I'd like (I think and read a lot faster than I speak) but I'm overall pretty pleased with what I said. I just wish my final comment would have made it on the air.
Thompson asked readers to Google the APA resolution and I said, "All you have to do is read it."
Too bad they hung up on me before I said it but oh well. It was still a lot of fun.
And just to be clear, I don't expect anyone to listen to me. Thompson's a lawyer who's on TV a lot while I'm just some guy from San Diego. Hopefully a lot of listeners will be curious enough to seek out the truth for themselves. That's what I hoped to accomplish.
Andrew Eisen
P.S. - I should also point out that I jumped down Thompson's throat before he finished his statement that the APA found a direct causal link between violent game play and aggressive behavior. I figured he'd say violent behavior as he had done for years and didn't hear him say aggressive behavior. So, while Thompson is still incorrect, his assertion is not as far off as it used to be.
Had I listened to what he actually said instead of what I assumed he was going to say I would have pointed out that an increase in aggressive behavior is hardly a cause for concern and does little to support his position. After all, flipping someone off or uttering a profanity is an example of aggressive behavior. It’s silly to get bent out of shape over a possible increase in aggressive behavior when we don’t know how large the increase is or how long it lasts.
Here's the bottom-line: Jack's mental illness doesn't allow him to let go of a "fact" once he determines that it is a fact. Whether it's a fact or not. Trying to convince him that his fact is not a fact is a big waste of time. He'll never let go.
Ehhh, a little dissapointed in general, but his Thompson's impending disbarrment it makes me feel better. The last two callers did well in general, but overall I think the argument should've relied less on "studies" and "statistics" and more on logical arguments.
I'm a formal high school debater, and you can't win a debate with facts. As I've seen contradicting studies and statistics can be thrown back & forth all the time, but it is the logical arguments that win a debate. Just my two cents.
Jack Thompson doesn't speak logic. He only knows statistics, he even sees people as statistics.
- The most frightening thing a person can ever hear: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
Oh, my God! This guy that's on now with the Rocky Balboa voice is priceless!
It's amazing at how much better the conversation is flowing now that Thompson's not there to try talking over everyone.
Holy crap, are they still at it or am I listening to a recording..or something else...
At the beginning of these interviews there's always a second where Thompson's calm debate sounds convincing. Then I remember my own conversation with him and I wait another minute for him to start shouting.
He still doesn't realize that Zelnick and people like him don't have control over who buys the game. Once Best Buy or Gamestop purchases it, they are going to sell it to whomever they choose. Trying to tell Wal Mart, a huge, probably the biggest, retailer in the world that they're going to be cut off is insane. That would be just as bad as an AO rating, it would kill the game.
"You are not a statistically significant sample." Jack Thompson to a kid who realizes video game violence is not real. Yet his one kid being able to purchase GTA is proof that kids everywhere can buy it. =\
When asked whether or not he had a website. "No, but there is one a guy has that makes it appear to be mine. Which means it's probably more thoughtful sane and rational than one I'd have." See? He's giving us direct proof about his mental status now!
You could hear Jack rolling his eyes when the book Grand Theft Childhood was mentioned... Literaly hear them as they slammed backwards so violently he was force to exclaim "Oh Geeze" in suprize and pain.
Also what is with the "You are not a statistically significant sample." Are only the kids who actualy go out and shoot someone part of the statistics? and not the millions and millions of well adjusted kids who also play videogames?
Yeah, anything that proves him wrong gives him physical pain. Which is ironic because I took his advice and tracked down that APA study with the exact search he said (APA August 2005 violent video games) and it seemed to be contradictory. Nowhere in the article (Two articles actually) did I see the words cause, causal or causation.
And then I found some old archived GP on LJ which had a quote from, I believe, someone who worked on the study, or at least knew the details intimately, Dr. Elizabeth Carll:
"In the interest of accuracy for future articles, it would be helpful to state that the APA Resolution on Violence in Video Games and Interactive Media reported an increase in aggressive behavior as a result of playing video games, rather than only reporting that there was no causal link to teen violence. Reporting that there was no causal link to teen violence without reporting that there was an increase in aggressive behavior, as a result of playing violent video games, may be misleading to the reader."
Thompson quite clearly stated that when Dennis looked for confirmation they replied stating there was in fact a causal link. Here, thanks to Dennis' research and the original APA study's reports, is cold hard evidence that Thompson has been flat out lying to the media, members of law enforcement, and the general public for years (Not that we really need any more of it, and it's already out there for all to see).
Here is what the resolution actually says:
WHEREAS comprehensive analysis of violent interactive video game research suggests such exposure a.) increases aggressive behavior, b.) increases aggressive thoughts, c.) increases angry feelings, d.) decreases helpful behavior, and, e.) increases physiological arousal
It does not say "direct causal link" or that playing violent video games causes aggressive behavior. It says some research suggests exposure increases aggressive behavior.
Here's the other bit:
"The policy decision, made by the APA Council of Representatives, was adopted at the recommendation of a special Committee on Violence in Video Games and Interactive Media of the Media Psychology Division of APA, which reviewed the research indicating that exposure to violence in video games increases aggressive thoughts, aggressive behavior, and angry feelings among youth."
Again the APA reviewed research that indicated that exposure to violent video games increases aggressive behavior. It still does not say the APA concluded that violent games cause increased aggressive behavior.
Andrew Eisen
I think with Jack it boils down to semantics. And he uses that time-honored tactic common to all lawyers in twisting words around, although I have to wonder if Jack by now has lied so much that he now honestly believes the things he says. David Gerrold, writing as Solomon Short, once said: "Not all lawyers know when they're lying. Only the good ones do. The best can conceal even this fact."
Anyway, someone like Jack can look at those passages and think: increase in aggression = causes violence. And while the reports themselves state the two are pretty much mutually exclusive, in Jack's mind it means the same thing, which is why he remained so adamantly bull-headed about it and insisted it stated games cause violence while you tried to correct him.
To be fair, while Thompson used to say the APA resolution found a causal link to violent behavior, that's not what he said this time. I just didn't notice because I jumped on him before he finished. To his credit, he did say "direct causal link to an increase in aggressive behavior" which while still technically incorrect, is a heck of a lot closer than it used to be.
It would have been quite a different conversation had I heard what he actually said instead of going off on what I assumed he'd say based on what he had been saying for years.
Andrew Eisen
Also what is with the "You are not a statistically significant sample." Are only the kids who actualy go out and shoot someone part of the statistics? and not the millions and millions of well adjusted kids who also play videogames?
I'd ask him about such terrible events occurring; as disturbing as they are, can they even be considered a "statistically significant sample"? I mean, this is the guy calming credit for "predicting" Columbine, frequently saying things like that there is going to be another one 10x worse, such horrible events will happen on a frequent basis, etc, and yet such things are still far & few between.
That reminds me, he made such claims about Bully. There is soooo many things you could go on about with that, but my main point would be that he doesn't care about such issues or those "innocent kids" he claims to be protecting. With Bully he pretty much exploited them for his agenda, and then fled the scene without contributing or helping with any REAL bullying problems/issues. Same for those laws and "working with" congress critters....
*laugh* I love JT's comment about kids brains being programmed to copy these things from a young age. I've been playing games since I was 3 years old (I'm 28 now) and I havent killed anyone, nor do I expect I ever will (Unless I go insane and join the military or something) I guess I'm just another one of those insignifigant numbers, ya think? I expect quite a few "gamers" are like me though, which likely makes us the majority, wonder if our friendly neighborhood nemesis realizes this.
That reminds me of all the bio-feedback BS he was spewing.
The first thing I do with ANY GAME is turn the vibration OFF. I don't need the "pleasurable feeling" of things like bumping my car, getting shot at, jumping around, bumping into walls, running over a pothole, adjusting the vibration settings, etc.
It has been a while since I have owned a Nintendo console system(N64 was my last), but just what would he be saying about something like Mario or Starfox?
Oh I just got hit by an electric eel, I really need to do that in real life!! I'll do it right after I crash my starship into the ground!!
Plus the darned vibration feature begins to annoy my hands after a while...
I turn the rumble of my Wii remotes off to extend battery life. I have disabled the vibration on Vice City for the reasons you specify, especially because the slightest thing in-game causes the vibration to go full-blast and thought "this game really stress-tests the controller"
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
pfft, |\|00b, 1uffy b3@t$ @c3, $t00pi|) |\|00b
Shadow: The hell? SInce when can you type in 133t?
T.O.S.: u r @ |\|00b, t00, $h@|)0\/\/, u thi|\|k u c@|\| b3@t /\/\3?
Shadow: Bri|\|g it, |\|00b!
*They fight.*
I AM A LOST SOUL, CONDEMNED TO HAUNT THE DREAMS OF JOHN BRUCE "JACK" THOMPSON UNTIL HIS CRUSADE AGAINST VIDEO GAMES ENDS. SOMEONE, PLEASE! END MY SUFFERING!
This was pretty enlightening, and I'm looking forward to the movie coming out.
Also, how hillarious was that last caller, 'you should be hanging from a tree'
Wow, Did the last caller (not cliff) ACTUALLY SAY "You should be swinging from a rope on a tree?" ..... Scary sick sh*t man. And those fanatical christians call GAMERS violent.
The dumb callers are annoying me.... always the same comment "I've played these games and I'm not violent so fuck you JT".... Jesus Christ, come up with something more significant.
Like maybe the fact that there are double standard between movies and games. That pornographic movies are NOT the same category as M rated games. Thats why we have AO rating. We can use that rating when we start importing Japanese Hentai games. What about the fact that the more important factors about these violent people like being abused as a child and mental problems. And that the common denomonator is NOT violent videogames. These games are so wide spread that you would have a better time argueing that eating dinner regularly makes you kill people. How about the fact that he only seems to think that opinions of these people on the margin are the only things that matter? Hey, lets go ask this rape victim if objectifying women in video games should be banned under penalty of death. And lets believe when someone facing 25 to life uses GTA as an excuse. How about the fact that women have been, and will be, objectified as long as testoserone flows through male veins? Did you know that women couldn't vote in early 20th century? Did they loose voting rights when GTA came out? Should we ban high schools from teaching the Scarlet Letter, Things Fall Apart, and all things Shakespeare? How about the fact that he constantly says "counterstrike halflife" when its just "counterstrike"? Maybe he hasn't done a very good research.
HOW ABOUT THE FACT THAT HE STARTED OUT TRYING TO BAN THINGS THEN CHANGED HIS POSITION IN ORDER TO GAIN MORE POPULAR SUPPORT?
What can publishers possibly do to stop the selling of violent videogames? Wha