Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life Child Avatars

June 2, 2008 -

Congressional pressure applied by Rep. Mark Kirk (R-IL) has apparently gotten the attention of Linden Lab, operators of popular MMO Second Life.

GamePolitics readers will recall that Kirk lashed out at Second Life last month, accusing the game of offering inadequate safeguards to prevent underage users from wandering into the seedier corners of the game:

Sites like Second Life offer no protections to keep kids from virtual "rape rooms," brothels, and drug stores. If sites like Second Life won't protect kids from obviously inappropriate content, the Congress will.

A post on the Second Life Children blog indicates that Kirk's charges have already forced some changes on the SL community. Apparently, players who use child avatars will not be allowed to participate officially in the upcoming Second Life 5th Birthday (SL5B) celebration on June 23rd. Blogger Loki Eliot writes:

Last night [we] met with the Linden assigned to the organising of [SL5B]... we have unfortunitly [sic]been told we will not be allowed to represent or promote our community... From what we could understand the reason being that Linden Lab (LL) do not want the world to see our community being sponsored by them in the current climate of hysteria created by a certain US politician. This MAY also mean that Child Avatars will NOT be allowed at the SL5B celebrations.

While shocked and disappointed that LL have decided to exclude us from such a celebration of everything in SL, I ask everyone in the Child Avatar community to stay strong and to not seek retribution. I reluctantly acknowledge that LL want us to lay low until the smoke of Real World Politics blows over or risk the entire world of Second Life being torn down by uneducated Politicians seeking fame and glory.

 

A number of Second Life bloggers are up in arms about the Linden Lab exclusions from SL5B which also extend to a pair of sexually-themed SL communities. Ruslan Laryukov, a commenter on the Daniel Regenbogen blog writes:

I find it doubly regrettable that LL has lumped the kids community - in my experience one of the nicest, smartest and *least* sexual communities within SL - together with gor and bdsm... I simply resent the insinuation that the kid community is centered around sex, because that is just false... Most of us just want to be young and happy again, to release our inner child, to re-experience our youth with the good stuff - and without the bad stuff, which, for some of us was really bad.

GP: I'll confess to not having much knowledge of Second Life in general or the child avatar community in particular. But it's startling to see how quickly a few harsh words from a single congressman can cause changes with the SL community.


Comments

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Thought I'd take a minute from some GTA deathmatching to say: For me, Second Life is just a massively multiplayer photoshop. Piece of software that happens to have people in it, pretty much like GTA and Halo and all that. I use it for rapid prototyping of 3D enviros. A map/modders dream if you think about it. Difference is, what's INSIDE is made by people.

Go spend an evening on Xbox Live and tell me: what in the hell do you think half the idiots you run into there could or would -create- given they had the tools? Would they be making something as stellar as (insert name of your favorite franchise here), or something completely off the deep end like *some parts* of SL? (Your mom went off the deep end [sic] you see my point)

The main SL grid is 18+. The 'teen grid' is so locked down it's not even fun. Even being a game developer there requires a background check and all sorts of stuff.

Anyway, yeah, generally agree. I'm both a gamer and a user of SL and other virtual worlds, and interested in heading down the path of game development-- not just because client/server software like SL inspire me to do so, but because I share the desire to do battle with ill-informed Congressmen.

Haters can wait.

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Does the casual gamer even know about Second Life?

 

Does your average Hardcore gamer even care about Second Life?

 

----------------------------

IMA FIRIN MAH LASER!!!

IMA FIRIN MAH LASER!!!

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Hell. I used to play it... Yeah. There's a lot of the SL world which probably should have been nuked. The reason I kept playing was the scripting and building. I created from scratch everything from rifles, revolvers, combat suits, swords and armor, misc gear. Even my own lightsabers. That was fun... Ultimately useless, but fun. The reason I quit it mostly was because of the 'drama.' Now I'm playing The Witcher and Call of Duty 4 and i am perfectly happy with that.

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Well, for starters I'll comment on the article, but I sort of tend to wander so bear with me:

I think that this legislation and vote-phishing is just that: a politician trying to look good for votes, and slandering a good community in the process. SL might be inhabited by creeps here and there, but hey Senator: you every try walking around a back alley in DC at night? I didn't think so. There's shit everywhere, virtual or otherwise, and trying to set a higher standard for a meta-world than we have for the real world begins to border on ludicrous. And to the people who defame SL, you people are just like these idiots (Tack Jhompson, etc) if you lump all SL users and the like as "those people" and yourself as "us, the normal people." I personally find it fun to mess around in SL for a while every now and then, and I'm still a "real gamer" according to the last tournament I swept my way through. Just because people have diferent tastes doesn't make them any less, and also it doesn't remove their rights as citizens of the United States. This is so obviously a First Amendment violation that if I could, I would fly to DC and slap that congressman with a rolled up copy of the constitution. If these people are not actually "in" the game physically, then they are represented by virtual avatars, yes? Astounding logic, I know, but bear with me. If they are being represented by VIRTUAL representations, then no VCP law in the US could possibly touch this. The good Senator is getting exactly what he wants out of you: he wants a gamer society that is split, so that once we are all divided into our sub-classes (MMO, FPS, RTS) then we'll be taken down piece by piece, the same as Hitler took down the different oppostion before WWII. If we want to protect our rights and games and everything we hold dear, we need to unite against prejudicial slander like this. We can't allow ourselves to be split, because it really is true that we stand united, but fall when divided. Stand together and stop this unconstitutional and unethical crusade against games.

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Truly there would be no downsides whatsoever to shutting down Second Life forever, hopefully this is the beginning of that

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Tis zippy again...

 

 

Over the years I have noticed the ..err "protection" of children in fictional settings...partiality fictional children in fictional settings…this PC line of zero thought really needs to end its more disturbing and disgusting than the people that want to pretend to be children…..

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

 

Tis zippy again...

Wanted to add they seem to be protecting the image of a child more than the child themselves, pathetic how they warp and misconstrue things for votes....

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

I play Second Life, and have never seen this sort of stuff in an invasive way.. the way they make it sound is as if there are whole sims where child avatars are _______________ with  ________________ and ____________!! Disgusting and completely untrue.

 

It's mostly furries doing that.

...

I jest, even they arent as bad as everyone makes it seem.. I should know.  ;)

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

I would really love to see these "issues" be made into a SL machinima. I can Imagine a Kirk avatar demanding to random children. "Where are your rape rooms!"

 

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

"I don't think this has much to do with Mark Kirk's comments, and everything to do with the fact that Linden Lab started a policy against age-play about a year ago."

It has everything to do with his comments, actually.  Linden Lab did indeed start that policy, and for the most part it's been quite successful.  Linden Lab has been (and continues to) actively and aggressively enforcing that policy, and anyone who's actually familiar with how strict they are knows that Kirk is just stirring up mud in order to be able to appear to be doing something good "for the kids' sake".

Kirk's stance is much like the currently popular statements against GTA, but with less cause : "Second Life *might* have content inappropriate for minors who shouldn't be playing anyways". 

As with recent studies showing that retailers and partent are increasingly more responsible in restricting access to minors who shouldn't be playing, Second Life is provably restricting access to those who are not of an appropriate age to participate. 

It's typical politic bullshit intended to foster the appearance of justified moral outrage without any basis in reality, and is clearly targeted at those ignorant enough to take it at face value.  Unfortunately, there are a great many such ignorant people who can cause plenty of trouble without knowing actual facts, and this has definitely had an impact on Linden Lab. 

Which was, of course, Kirk's intent all along.  Standard Republican faux-conservative party line :(

.

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

"As with recent studies showing that retailers and partent are increasingly more responsible in restricting access to minors who shouldn't be playing, Second Life is provably restricting access to those who are not of an appropriate age to participate. "

Should have been : As with recent studies showing that retailers and parents are increasingly more responsible in restricting access of GTA and other mature games to minors who shouldn't be playing, Second Life is provably restricting access to those who are not of an appropriate age to participate.

 

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Oh why bother with stuff like this? All this will UNDOUBTEDLY be completely ignored by everyone with an axe to grind against second life, either because they don't play second life and will never hear of it or because they choose to ignore it and only focus on the bad parts (like pretty much every anti-gaming person known to man).

Second Life should stop playing the "we're really innocent" card and start playing the 'kirk is an uniformed moronic censor who wishes to ban things he doesn't approve of' card and also playing the 'we have lawyers, the 1st amendment and we won't hesitate to use them' card might work well too.

Or do what rockstar does, ignore them unless the shit REALLY hits the fan (read hot coffee and the haitian remark).

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

It might not be completely ignored, their seemingly eager capitulation could be seized on as an example "These people are the only responsible company, why can't the rest of you be as upstanding?"

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

The sad part is that if this politician person was talking about Gaia Online then half of the stuff he mentioned would of probably been true......which is sad considering the site was good at one time in its existence......but it sucks to be those Second Life people....

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

I'm not sure I'd use the word "popular" in the same sentance as "Second Life."

I play WOW, I've played Everquest, Star Wars Galaxies, EVE Online. I know people who play/played City of Heroes, Asheron's Call, etc, but I've never met someone who actually played Second Life. In fact other than scary stories from the networks trying to pump up the ratings, or politicans trying to score some points by trying to look like they know about this new fangled Interwebs thing and it's series of tubes, Game Politics is the only place I hear about Second Life. And yes, I do read the gaming sites and gaming comics (Penny Arcade, PVP, Ctrl-Alt-Del, etc)

Or to put it another way... REAL GAMERS DO NOT CARE ABOUT SECOND LIFE

Say What?

Real gamers don't care about Second Life?  Just because you've never met someone doesn't mean they don't exist.  It also means you're so closed minded about it that you have no clue what's going on in it, you just write it off like other well knowns (i.e. Jack Thompson).  The reason you don't hear much about it is because Second Life is COMPLETELY open source.  You won't hear about an expansion pack or see humorous comics because, quite frankly, by itself, SL is nothing but legos with a scripting language (and more).

Of course you don't hear about it much...that's because SL doesn't promote anything that exists player-wise inside the game.  Outside sources do, but it's nothing that is being pushed by the creators, Linden Labs.  It's meant to be that way.  They gave us a bunch of tools, the ability to create as we see fit, and said "have fun".  If something INSIDE SL makes news, it's not because of Second Life, it's because of the actions a person decided to do inside them.  Remember the WoW funeral that they did?  Tons of people there to mourn the guy and they got griefed?  I could sit and blame that on WoW itself and completely ignore the fact that WoW had nothing to do with it.  Instead it was the people inside.

So, allow me to correct you.  Second Life isn't really a "game".  There are no levels, no pre-defined goals, no limitations, no skills, no rare drops, no quests...it leaves the entire world up to you.  That, in and of itself, is an amazing thing.  If you took a few minutes to actually look at some of the artistic genius behind (and in) Second Life, I highly doubt you'd be so quick to dismiss it.

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Ok I have to ask since you used the term "Real Gamers". What qualifies one as a real gamer? Is there a certain age one has to be? Or is it all in the games that they play, where by playing the "Wrong One" or the "Wrong Genre" your card is pulled and you lose status as a gamer because you are not playing what everyone else likes? I ask this question to anyone who uses the term "Real Gamers", to me it just sounds like a term used by children to belittle others.

As a follow up question, say someone played every MMO out there, loved FPS games, and completed almost every RPG out there. Would that qualify them as a real gamer? Now what if they did all that and they were on second life? Would that change anything?

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

I think the implication of "real gamers" is fairly obvious.  What he was getting at is that the average Second Life player doesn't play anything else except Microsoft Solitaire.  "Real gamers" on the other hand play a variety of other games, such as Halo, GTA, Mario Galaxy, QBert, Zero Wing, and Street Fighter.

Considering I also never hear about SL anywhere but on this site whenever some politician is up in arms about "TEH INTARWEBS", I'm inclined to agree with the assessment that the majority of "real gamers" don't play it. 

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Well, I played games from the Halo, GTA, Mario and Street Fighter series. I own all current home consoles and a PSP and PS2.

I have two SL avatars.

I guess I'm not considered a "real gamer", huh. Don't paint people with a broad brush.

To the so-called "real gamers" out there, you really have to understand the appeal of Second Life. It is not designed for people who want to have an point A to B objective of some sort. You don't "play" it, you experience it. Sure, you can play games in Second Life, but that is not really the complete focus on the community. It's being whatever you want and doing (almost) anything you want as long as it doesn't break the TOS.

I'm rather perplexed to see SL coverage on a gaming blog. Is it me, or do the gaming community see SL as a whipping boy or pageview fodder? After all, people can't help to see a train wreck.

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

It's just a graphical chat...is something wrong with using instant messenger or IRC/telnet?

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

 

I don't think this has much to do with Mark Kirk's comments, and everything to do with the fact that Linden Lab started a policy against age-play about a year ago.

I like to tell people that Second Life is a lot like the internet in general -- you can find a whole lot of stuff you'd rather not find -- but you don't want that stuff popping up on you if you don't want to see it.  And that's exactly what I think is behind this move.  They are throwing a party, everyone is invited -- dress appropriately.

There’s been an image problem in SL for a while.  Usually when you mention SL most people will start talking about the sex, but in the cross section of what really goes on there sex is only a big part of it if you want it to be.  Much like the early days of the web, far too many people are seeing it only for the porn.

It’s a shame that the child avatars automatically get lumped in with the other sex communities, but when the public at large think SL is only for sex fiends, deviants and perverts, and then see child avatars…

Well, it’s not hard to imagine what they think, and until more people understand the complexities of all these seperate communities using SL, it’s not going to change, and the Lindens have to take steps to make sure Second Life as a whole doesn’t have to pay for others short-sightedness.

Sucks, sure, but that's how I see it....

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Hmm, if SL is vaguely like an internet within the internet, does that mean that internet censorship is alive & well?

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Hah, that boy avatar in the picture looks like a Kingdom Hearts reject.

Re: Congressman's Political Pressure Impacting Second Life

Why does the comment from Mark Kirk sound like

"Nice Online thing you've got here.  Shame if something happened to it."

Course, I don't understand the appeal of the child avatars.  Seems kinda creepy to me, but then I'm also not a big SL news follower.

 

 

 
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