Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

June 4, 2008 -

Jack Thompson has a date in court today.

As previously reported by GamePolitics, the embattled attorney faces a sanctions hearing before Judge Dava Tunis in Miami at 2 p.m.

Judge Tunis, appointed by the Florida Supreme Court to serve as referee in the Florida Bar's prosecution of Thompson on professional misconduct charges, recently recommended that Thompson be found guilty on 27 of 31 counts.

Today, the judge is expected to issue her recommendation on penalties for Thompson, which could include disbarment. Recent comments by Thompson indicate that he expects to be disbarred.

Whatever Tunis recommends, the final say belongs to the Florida Supreme Court, which will receive Tunis's final report on September 2nd.

GamePolitics will update Thompson's situation as soon as we get word from Miami.


Comments

Jack's surprise

If I were a betting man (and I am, actually) I would wager that Jack's surprise (whatever it may be) lands him in contempt of court.  Anybody want to wager against that?

Jack landing in jail would be gleefully hilarious.

Re: Jack's surprise

"Anybody want to wager against that?"

No, but I'll wager with. I want so see him held in contempt of court. Just makes his disbarment even sweeter!

Re: Jack's surprise

Despite Jack's specious allegations to the contrary, I suspect that Judge Tunis is just a little bit too nice and decent a person to now do what she's had ample reason to do before: throw Jack's ass into the Dade County Jail for his flagrantly contemptuous behavior in her courtroom. That woman must have the patience of Job. And, in the form of Jack Thompson, just as many trials and tribulations as were visited upon Job.

Re: Jack's surprise

You are on, my good sir. 50 internets says his surprise will land with an indecent exposure charge.

Re: Jack's surprise

I suspect his submissions to the court (post-2nd lawyer reg) will already bring such a charge...

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

I can't help but have noticed this for the past few weeks that this has been going on; Actually, I've noticed it for an even longer period since before E.Z.K. even became a Moderator around these parts... The level of maturity shown in these comments has declined significantly since persons started actually calling J.B.T. on the stuff he was pulling. The comments of the persons posting here has gotten significantly less and less mature and more and more full of the diatribe that they regularly knock "Jack" for and call him on.

One, what we must all realize is that "Jack" is NOT going to prison. He has not (Yet) broken any laws in particular that would warrant prison time. We can cease those comments right here and right now.

Two, what you must ALL realize is that this is a man's livelihood on the line here. So before you all line up to stone the man, make sure you recognize that fact. While I bare no sympathy for "Jack" - and no, his charging practically every video game journalist with Racketterring and Influencing Corrupt Organizations (AKA: RICO) did not help considering I am a video game journalist, I also recognize that he is a human and still has the rights to be treated as one.

Three, We don't like "Jack". Let's get that out the way. Not on a person on this site likes "Jack". But show decency enough to atleast use mature comments to assail the man, not cheap petty ones.

Now in all honesty, I expect to be flamed for this post. I expect multiple people to call for the so called "wah-bulance" or to call me a "Jack Thompson supporter", or that for the year or so I've been commenting on this site and that for the years I've been a video game journalist that I'm really Jack Thompson in disguise. If I don't see one of these kind of post, I'll in all honesty be truly surprised. I just ask everyone to recognize the things I've pointed out above and to check themselves before making such immature comments.


----
Papa Midnight
http://www.otakutimes.com
http://www.thesupersoldiers.com

 

----
Papa Midnight

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

"The level of maturity shown in these comments has declined significantly since persons started actually calling J.B.T. on the stuff he was pulling. The comments of the persons posting here has gotten significantly less and less mature and more and more full of the diatribe that they regularly knock "Jack" for and call him on."

That's been going on since the live journal days. The only changes now are that there's less posts in general, so they stand out more, and people are laughing at and mock Jack rather than swearing at him.

One, what we must all realize is that "Jack" is NOT going to prison. He has not (Yet) broken any laws in particular that would warrant prison time. We can cease those comments right here and right now.

True, although at the rate he's going, he just may manage to get himself locked up as a danger to self or others.

Two, what you must ALL realize is that this is a man's livelihood on the line here. So before you all line up to stone the man, make sure you recognize that fact. While I bare no sympathy for "Jack" - and no, his charging practically every video game journalist with Racketterring and Influencing Corrupt Organizations (AKA: RICO) did not help considering I am a video game journalist, I also recognize that he is a human and still has the rights to be treated as one.

Yes, we realize this. However he's in danger of losing his law liscense due to his on corruption and incompetance, as such, it's no reason to treat him better than he deserves. Unfortunately for Jack, his treatment of others and general actions means that he doesn't deserve to be treated with much respect. Indeed, the only reason he should get treated with any politeness and common curtesy is that fact that people generally hold themselves to a higher level of behavior than Jack calls for.

Three, We don't like "Jack". Let's get that out the way. Not on a person on this site likes "Jack". But show decency enough to atleast use mature comments to assail the man, not cheap petty ones.

Fair enough, although personally I just prefer to mock him. He's made himself the fool, so I see no particular reason not to laugh at him.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

I agree that we should not stoop to JT's level.  Any threats against him or his family, even when implied are in bad taste.

When it comes to his career I have zero sympathy.  The only one to blame for JT's career woes is JT himself.

I have to agree with Dog Welder that sympathy is not something we should have for JT.  Does JT have sympathy for his fellow man?  If he does then he hides it well.  I've yet to see him show his support and sympathies for those families who were hurt by "video game violence" that he supposedly represented.  When Penny Arcade made the donation pledge for him?  Where was he then?

Papa he's thrown a LOT of stones.  You cannot expect people, not just gamers, to throw some of those stones back.

-Loudspeaker
"Volume helps to get a point across but sharp teeth are better."

"Volume helps to get a point across but sharp teeth are better."

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Reap what ye shall sow. 

 

His infantile tirades are coming back to bite him in the ass.  He profited unduly from his criticism of gaming, now his unorthodox tactics are landing him in trouble I really couldn't give a shit about his 'livelihood'.  He'll do as he always does and live off his wife / Fox News / ANYONE who will give him a modicum of attention.

 

Cannot wait to see JUST how much his punishment will hurt him.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Yeah there is a certain level of immaturity amongst many commenters. I have been trying to keep up with the discussions, but when you have two religious articles and two JT articles, it can get overwhelming.

I wish there was an easy way for you guys to contact me when you notice really bad posts.

E. Zachary Knight
www.editorialgames.com

 

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

As a follow up from the other moderator here in the comments section.  EZK is correct.  There is a certain level of immaturity amongst many commentors.  It does not help when there are 100 comments in a single article, which occurs in every Jack article.   I am fortunately employed full time at my day job, and don't have time to read every comment possible.  I am sure EZK has his own paying job that takes up his time. 

Unfortunately we don't have a way for you to flag a comment for the two of us to look at, but if you do find a comment offensive, please let Dennis know.  Although Dennis is a busy man he takes things here at GP seriously, and if there is an offensive post either EZK or I have missed he will zap it, and alert us to be on a watch out for a user. 

 

Some of you have like myself been around since GamePolitics was on LiveJournal and Dennis had little control and no help on comments.  Since then GP has grown, and so has the follow, fortunately so has the ability to control posts, but the people who do look into things are human, we'll miss some things or we may not agree with you on what violates the rules.   Dennis tries to maintain a rather open posting policy in order to allow readers to post thier views freely.   This does put a larger grey area as to what is and is not acceptable and the two moderators, and Dennis often have to make judgement calls.

 

-Toll

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Just a thought: you've got a "report spam" button now, so perhaps that could be retooled to add "mark for moderation" as well?

---
The Mammon Industry

---
Fangamer

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Tell you what, Papa Midnight, when Jack begins treating other human beings in a non-condescending manner, I'll begin treating him with the respect and dignity another human being deserves.

As far as his livelihood being taken from him goes, I don't give a damn and I have no sympathy for Jack.  When a person becomes a lawyer, they have a code of conduct to abide by as set forth by the Bar.  Violation of that (especially repeated and egregious violations) should have the expected consequences of removal from that profession.  The fact that Jack feels no remorse because he feels he's done nothing wrong only indicates that, should he keep his license, he would continue to behave in this manner.  Once again, no sympathy.  He's a blight on his chosen profession.

I will at least say though that some comments should probably not have been uttered on this site (or anywhere, for that matter).  Anyone posting death threats and the like need to be removed from the discussion.  And I did notice a number of "immature" comments above, but that really has been par for the course any time Jack shows up.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

I agree with Papa Midnight, that childish personal attacks against JT probably do not serve their intended purpose. No matter how amused you are by the particular string of profanity you weave into your JT. response, I think JT has already won as soon as you post it. The moment you decide his useless comment is important enough to respond to, he's got exactly what he wants.

On the other hand, I agree completely with Dog Welder about any moral obligation we have to be concerned with JT's livelihood. For many years now, JT's career has been to publicly lobby to remove First Amendment protections for video games, and I would celebrate the end of this career with absolutely no feelings of guilt or remorse, even if it did mean a fellow human being was out of a job.

However, he's not out a job. You don't need a law license to lobby against video games, and I'd be surprised if the disbarment will put any crimp at all in JT's true livelihood.

As long as he has the celebrity to get paid to speak his views, he'll continue in this career, and as long as we are inspired to gush with personal hatred and self-important insults every time GP mentions his name, I expect JT has all the celebrity he needs.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

I wonder what's next for Jack?

Jack's  Plan Of Ultimate Righteous Revenge.

Sue God!

God created the heaveans and the earth.

The Earth is the home of Florida.

Florida is where the Florida courts resides.

Within these courts, exists Judge Tunis, who recently called me out successfully.

My problems = God's fault!!! I can't lose!!!

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

"I have a little surprise for the \"judge\" today"

Is it going to be a "figurative" suprise?

 

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Nah, he's gonna show the judge his cock.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

I have serious doubts as to GP's ability to survive the Internet Nuke this will create.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Nah the big one will come when GP reports the FLSC ruling on Jack, with how things are going late this year or early next year.


 

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Well since my last jack themed singalong didn't seem to catch on much, let's have another go!

Breakin rocks in the hot sun
I fought the law and the law won
I needed money cause I had none
I fought the law and the law won

I need to go to bed now but I want to stay up to see the results live, it's just not the same on a replay...

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Today is a good day.

-GRIZZAM PRIME(c)is property of the U.S. Marine Corp. Wetworks Dept., and also The Incredible Hulk-GRIZZAM PRIME is not to be associated with GRIZZAM 512 or any other GRIZZAM entity under penalty of law, so sayith ZARATHOS.

Reality/////////////////////////////////////Fantasy. Seems like a pretty thick line to me...

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

It's a long day as well.

CAPTCHA: perrs

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

If one chooses to watch this, is it in bad taste to take popcorn to this event? You know just to watch this moron get his ass handed to him on a silver platter.

 

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Since Jack, by refusing to cooperate in discovery with Bar Counsel, has be ordered to not put a single witness or introduce a single sheet of paper into evidence, it'll be interesting to see just how he plans to argue for mitigation of his sanction. What, through his silver-tounged oratory skills? Where he either loses his train of though in mid-sentence or can't keep simple legal terms and concepts straight? Maybe he'll resort to his old stand-by of reading into the record names from the Miami White Pages.    

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Jack Thompson, "Attorney" says:
"I have a little surprise for the \'judge\' today."

Dick in a box?

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

........Uh....EEEEEWWWWW!!!!!! Who'd want to see that?!?!

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Why would John Bruce be sitting in a box?

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

If Jack's surprise for the Judge is that he's going to open his mouth and make a complete fool of himself, then that ain't much of a surprise. She's seen him do that in her courtroom on any number of occassions.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

I wonder if Judge Tunis will be the first Judge to actually say "Bwhaa????" while court is in session?

Surely that will be the only response to any lame, ignorant, stupid comment by John Bruce.  Such as if John Bruce brings up the loyalty oath argument (oh, please... PLEASE... tell me he's going to bring in another blown up poster board of some nonsense that has nothing to do with anything and starts interrupting the Judge by holding it up every few seconds!) or the nonsense about GP getting spoilers (please, PLEASE, let him try to use that word in his argument!) even though the info is in Public Records.

Nightwng2000

NW2K Software

Nightwng2000 has also updated his MySpace page: http://www.myspace.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Nightwng2000 NW2K Software http://www.facebook.com/nightwing2000 Nightwng2000 is now admin to the group "Parents For Education, Not Legislation" on MySpace as http://groups.myspace.com/pfenl

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Jack Thompson, Attorney says:
"I have a little surprise for the \"judge\" today."

Quick, somebody hide Judge Tunis' fax machine.

Jokes aside, if my choices are to believe Dennis, or believe Jack...  Hmm..anybody want to guess who's coming out on top of that one. The real irony is, it's not like I have too many problems with his agenda, I don't. It's his public behavior I don't like. He's seems to think the courts are his personal weapon to wield against anyone who happens disagree with him.  He's a bully. THAT's what I don't like.

"Even if it was online gaming that somehow inspired him to kill his parents, he must have realised at some point that they wouldn't drop any good loot." - GP member, Doomsong

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Calling him a "bully" may be giving him too much credit. A bully is one who uses their superior size and strength to confront and unfairly take advantage of a smaller and weaker opponent. Jack's more like a coward who'll wait until you're not looking and then sucker-punch.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

I think 'pest' is a better term, rather than 'bully.'

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

You're looking for the word opportunist. Yes he is one.

E. Zachary Knight
www.editorialgames.com

 

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

"Opportunist" works. I like "scum-bucket" better, though.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Yeah! Don't let another fax machine bite the dust.

Really, I think asking the question (believe either Dennis or Jack) is already giving an answer. I'd rather believe a reporter who know what he's talking about, who corrects his mistakes when they're pointed out and who can show tolerance (remember Pandralisk, he tolerated him for quite a long time) rather than a second-rate lawyer who's egotistical, narsissitic, paranoid, insulting, slandering,lying and, worst of all. a fax-machine murderer and a time waster. It really isn't hard to see who's the most trustworthy.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Oh the suspense :D .

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Yeesh, all these threatening comments and references to weapons.  I don't like Jack's methods either but I wouldn't wish harm on the guy.  The disconnected-from-reality part of my brain that's been alienated over the years by videogames is hoping that the "surprise" is a nice potted fern or a greeting card -- yknow, something that says, "no hard feelings, I just pulled my witness list and loyalty oath stunts because I really thought I was going to win the case that way."  I'm hopelessly optimistic enough to think even the judicial system deserves a little sunshine now and again.

---
The Mammon Industry

---
Fangamer

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

It's been a long time coming but it's finally going to happened. I'm glad this pathetic man will finally get what's coming to him. I'm also glad that he's making it so entertaining.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

@Luke J J...


The Australian actor guy...AHAHAH oh god that made me laugh hard. I know exactly what you mean.


Wiki disambiguation page? Or just the plain search? Don't forget the photographer either now.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

"No, Dennis, you idiot. She issues them in her Referee\'s Report, due months from now. You just can\'t get anything right, can you, Dennis, and you can\'t even keep your lies straight. Jack Thompson PS: I have a little surprise for the \"judge\" today." That'll do pig, that'll do. Does he even read the articles before he opens his mouth?

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Nah it's too complicated -- his brain only has two settings; 'trolling' and 'failing' ... guess which one it's on right now? :D

(Actually depending on how this goes, the co-horts at the site I post news at might be interested... we've been keeping an occasional eye on his misdeeds so, this should be interesting.)

 (ew... too many commas... thank god for 'edit' feature huh? see what not registering gets ya? I'm sure he'd love to take advantage of it... but oh well. :P)

 

400 Episodes, TEN YEARS and counting: http://www.orangeloungeradio.com/ | Voice of Geeks Network - http://www.vognetwork.com

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

It's going to be hillarious when the lawyer-gamers come on here and put in their signatures: "Attorney, and you're not anymore."

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Jack Thompson, Attorney says:
"I have a little surprise for the \"judge\" today."

Let me guess, does it involve gay porn?  Pictures of kangaroos?  Threats of violence supposedly excused by the word "figuratively"?  Or just more of the usual hate-spewing and last-ditch kicking and screaming?  Whatever it is I'm looking forward to it.
 

JackDon'tKnowJack  says:
"What you can't get, Jack, is those damn slashes out of your posts. "

At this point I'm convinced he's doing it just to annoy us.


JwM says:
"Sadly, he would be an EX-lawyer, meaning he knows just how far he can go without getting a slander suit."

I dunno, he sure didn't know just how far he could go without losing his right to practice law.  All he has to do is let his unstable emotions control him and he'll overstep the slander line easily.

 

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

He can't help the slashes - he's posting through a proxy, which automatically inserts them in the course of its function.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Ahh-haa.

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Today

"Who's Jack Thompson?"

"Some lawyer who thinks video games are the root of all evil."

2009

"Who's Jack Thompson?"

"Some dolt who used to be a lawyer but got caught lying and other stuff, all in the name of Jesus of course!"

2010

"Who's Jack Thompson?"

"Isn't he that raving lunatic guy that gets on Fox News every now and then for comedic relief?"

2011

"Who's Jack Thompson?"

"That Australian actor guy?"

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

September.. that is too far away.  How about you give him a swift kick out the door now?

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

There is something that I believe many have seem to forgotten, that is, Jack will still be around.  Perhaps trolling around here more now than ever.  Without the restrictions of his sworn duty as a lawyer, he will be free to go on radical tangents as big as he desires.  These rulings will not prevent him from being on TV, instead the caption will be "expert" instead of lawyer.

I guess what I am trying to say is this:  I believe it will do more harm for gamers if he does get disbarred, than if he doesn't.  Whilst he has been a lawyer, has any he won any litigation against video games?  Maybe you can count "hot coffee", but I think anyone could have won that case.   If he isn't a lawyer anymore, he will not be bound by the rules of the bar (not that he has ever followed them), and still be able to get on TV and continue the crusade as an "expert".  Sadly, he would be an EX-lawyer, meaning he knows just how far he can go without getting a slander suit.  If you thought the attacks on gamers and game creators were bad now, just wait until he is disbarred.  Without the bindings of the judicial system, his crusades can spread false information, lies, or whatever, yet he has enough savy as a former lawyer to keep himself from major trouble.  It will get worse, ALOT worse. 

I do hope he gets what he deserves, but I fear his punishment will in the long run hurt gamers and the industry.  Plus, I wont have anything to chuckle about when I visit GP, if he for some reason decided to quit trolling! 

Just my $.02

 

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

Oh he'll still be able to get on TV, and he'll probably try even hard to do so.  Considering his wife's situation he may or may not be able to rely on her income.   His income from the book is staggeringly low, and no one really wants to debate him for money.    If he loses his law license he loses the income from any clients he currently has.  (I don't see Jack being the type of person who doesn't ask for money up front if the case doesn't get him press time)   Also not sure about FL rules, but if an attorney in NC gets disbarred or cannot fulfill his obligation to complete the case the client can seek to get a refund.    So it is possible that if Jacky gets disbarred he'll have to pay any existing.

So let's look at Jacks current income sources.

1) Wife ( With a medical condition that could possibly reduce her income.)

2) Attorney Fees - if disbarred no longer viable, with potential to have to refund. Not sure of FL law in this regards.

3) TV appearances - Loses some credibility as a disbarred attorney, may be able to get them as an "expert"

4) Speaking Engagements - Loses credibility as a disbarred attorney, still possible to get them from groups who already believe him.  Definately will see a reduction.

5) Debates - He's only really not backed out on one of these.  Doubt not being able to flaunt his law license will help him here either.  Look for a reduction, so no real income here.

6)Book sales - although upfront everyone wanted to read it, it became quickly a re-sell item on Amazon.  He can't be making too much off of this anymore. 

 

So if you think about it, most of Jack's income isn't looking so good in the near future.  I'm sure he has investments, and his wife's income is probably going to be pretty sound.   The thing is Jack lives in a high end area of Miami-Dade County, has a kid in private school, etc.  Those kinda bills add up quickly.    If Jack gets disbarred he may very well have to pursue some other type of employment.

 

Toll

 

Re: Jack Thompson Faces Sanctions Hearing Today in Miami

I think JwM makes a good point. 

JT is not just another game hater. With or without his law license, he's still the most famous game hater ever there was. At this point, I think it's his celebrity that gives JT a voice, more than his status with the Florida bar. 

Just look at us all here, if you need convincing: Any GP story with JT's name in the headline always gets tons of attention, and whenever JT actually comments in these boards we trip over one another to respond.  

Why would he bother to post here in the first place? Do you think it's because he actually enjoys the personal attacks and profanity we invariably shoot back at him? I think it's because he is "savvy" enough to know that keeping his name in the forefronts of our minds is a true source of power for him.  

So unless someone can argue that all of us here are suddenly going to stop paying attention to him once he's disbarred, I have trouble believing that anyone else is going to pay less attention to him because of it either.

 
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MechaTama31I mean, of the groups being bullied here, which of the two would you refer to collectively as "nerds"?10/19/2014 - 11:30pm
MechaTama31But that's the thing, it doesn't sound to me like he is advocating bullying, it sounds like he is accusing the SJWs of bullying the "nerds", who I can only assume refers to the GGers.10/19/2014 - 11:21pm
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quiknkoldwas it StreamEez, or the StreamEez feature in Hauppauge Capture? cause I know Capture has alot more support from the devs.10/19/2014 - 3:54pm
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