Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

June 14, 2008

Video game arcades are fast disappearing from the scene, reports the Chicago Tribune.

Roger Sharp, director of marketing for game machine manufacturer WMS Gaming (formerly Williams), told the newspaper:

I think it's tragic. This is part of our culture. And the arcade industry has always prided itself on being recession proof. But, then, this has never been an industry full of brain surgeons. For years they didn't have to do a lot of work to get customers, then when they were faced with competition, they lost them. It's pathetic.

Dennis Georges, who ran a popular Chicago arcade for 28 years, fingered the rise of home video game systems as the main culprit in the demise of the coin-ops:

We couldn't compete with home systems. We did our best, but our customers buy a game for $300 and play on big TVs. We're asked to pay $14,000 for one machine.
 

But Mike Rudowicz, president of the American Amusement Machine Association, said the coin-op industry has downsized, not disappeared:

See, it's not that the industry is gone. It's that we're a cottage industry now. We have around 3,000 family entertainment centers, but those are mostly not arcades. A vestibule in a movie theater—that's an arcade now.


According to the Tribune, the arcade business has gone from being a $50 billion industry to its current $7 billion. In the words of Namco exec David Bishop:

The real arcade is almost a niche now. It was part of the fabric of society for a short time. It had a seedy undercurrent. But it was so cool. I'm sad to see it go. I miss those days. You will never see them again. Which is sad, but evolution. What can you do? Enjoy while you can—if you find one. You're not going to see them much longer. The arcade is done. Game over.
 

 

Comments

Not in Japan

In Japan, arcades are alive and well (for now), and in plentiful supply-especially in Tokyo.  When I was in the Shinjuku district 9 months ago, I felt like I had stepped backwards in time to the 1980's.  So many arcades and so many games...going to a Sega joyopolis was SUBARASHI (wonderful).

To regain the memory in the USA arcade experience, California Extreme in San Jose (coming up in July) is one way to take a trip back in time.

Re: Not in Japan

There are still some other places in The US that are keeping it alive.  The Dave & Buster's chain of restaurrants is one I can think of off the top of my head. And there's also Nolan Bushnell's own Chuck E. Cheese.  But D&B also has an almost equal amount of ticket games and Chuck E. Cheese has all but abandoned the arcade aspect of their restaurnats, opting instead for ticket and prize machines.  I think the only true arcade nowadays is Metrion in San Francisco.

Re: Not in Japan
I was reading on some board (might've been Insert Credit) a theory that the reliance on public transportation in Japan is an integral part of the arcade's continued success there. The idea was along the lines that if you know you've got a half hour till the train gets to where you're at, there's more incentive to play a round or two of a game. Whereas in the US they have to be a destination unto themselves, which is why they're usually part of "Fun Centers" and the like.
Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I've pretty much had this feeling for the past few years.  And honestly, I can totally agree with the reasoning here.  Even when home console systems like the Atari 2600 and Intellivision were out, they still couldn't equal the performance of the actual arcade games (to wit, compare Atari's home version of Pac-Man to the real thing).

But as technology improved and home computers and newer game systems could perfectly mimic those classic computer games, the gap between what home systems and arcade machines could do became narrower and narrower.  Now technology has aught up, and today's current gen systems can deliver games that are every bit as good as or better than arcade quality machines.

Even traditional arcade companies like Nintendo, Midway and Capcom have retooled their efforts to the home console systems.  The most recent Mario and Mortal Kombat games were released for consoles systems only.  And Capcom's Street Fighter IV will be console exclusive.

I do miss the old arcades, as they were a staple of my misspent youth.  I loved going to arcades like Malibu Grand Prix in Mount Laurel, NJ.  And the mall arcades were always a regular stop whenever I went there.  Sure some of them were kind of seedy as the article said, and I remember there was one that always smelled like a men's locker room whenever I went inside, but there were still some fond memories there.  Hell, even I met my longtime girlfriend at the arcade in the student union of my college.

So while I'm not surprised to hear that video arcades are fast becoming the remnant of a bygone era, I still can't help but wax sentimental about it.

 

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Actually, SF4 is coming out for the arcades as well. Problem is that there might not be a whole lot of 'em made because arcades have been on life support for years.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

There will be plenty of the SF4 cabinets in Japan. Only in countries like the US will there be a small amount made.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I know. I was just referring to the US.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

SF4 Hopelessly obsolete. Hidden object

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Can't say I'm surprised. And yes, I wholly believe that it's the rise of the Console that did it in for Arcades in the US.

I'm neither happy nor sad about the fact to be honest, that's just how the dice roll.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I've noticed the lack of decently mantained arcades in the US (or at least in the Rockies), it's sad as pinball was always my favorite (more of the mid-age tables like Star Trek, Judge Dredd, and Funhouse) but a good 80% of the tables I come across are damaged or maintained improperly. Even still, the new games try and bring in so many lights and so on that it is expensive to play (especially with the weakening dollar).

 

Simply put, I'm not surprised in the US, and I am dissapointed it is going this way.

Where's Flynn when you need him?!

---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

It is indeed sad, as there is a elvel fo creativity seen with arcade machiens that just isn't possible on home consoles. I mean, hardly anything beats going to an arcade and hopping into a racing seat and grabbing a wheel, or slamming the bering around a pinball machine, or taking up an oversized plastic machien gun and shooting aliens.

 I miss those times. At least some centers are keepign it partly alive.

-kurisu7885

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I'll note that the price for coin-ops has also steadily increased and with it, the price to play. Take a guess as to why their fading in popularity.

----
Papa Midnight
http://www.otakutimes.com
http://www.thesupersoldiers.com

 

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I actually manage an arcade, and I do see this a lot. The lack of new machines (My newest is a Nascar Game, which does decently, other than that, the newest is Time Crisis 3 and four is already on PS3) and the fact that most of the games are available at home doesn't help either.

A previous commenter mentioned the lack of upkeep on an arcade, and this is true. I have one game, I've had MY boss trying to fix for a year and he hasn't. When I took over my arcade, half the machines, while working weren't in the best condition. Now that I fixed them up, they got better sales.

Another thing killing arcades right now, is gas prices. My sales PLUNGED when gas hit four dollars a gallon. And I keep up my games. So with a decently run arcade, people have to choose weither to play Marvel Vrs Capcom 2, or keep their car running. And I don't blame them for picking the car.

I don't see arcades dying out right, they've got a few years for them, but they can be helped if people actually go to them. I'm going to try and run tournaments on some of my fighting games, to try and pump up the sales at least. But I can only work with what I got. I love my arcade. I try and keep it up. Try and get people going well, but it doesn't help if people don't come in.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I always wanted to run an arcade, or at least help manage.  There used to be one in both malls by me, but they both got shut down (one didnt do well and the other one was forced out)

 

Lan Centers are becoming the new arcades.  Someone should honestly combine the 2 aspects together...

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Very interesting writeup thank you. Download games

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

This is something that's been happening since the rise of the original Playstation and by the time the PS2 came out arcades already had one foot in the grave. I haven't seen a arcade in a mall in six or seven years now, hell I haven't seen an arcade period! IMO the PS1 started it and the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube pretty much finished the job. That and the absurd prices for arcade cabinets and how owners had start charging more and more to be able to make their money back certainly didn't help either, a quarter was one thing but then prices went to fifty cents and eventually some games started to cost a dollar for the same money losing experience which was nuts. Besides, most arcades don't offer a unique experience aside from whatever gimmicks the game's set up is. There's not a lot to make it worth coming back for, the "competitive" feeling of beating someone else's high score certainly wasn't enough and then obviously there's the hassle of actually going to the arcade and the annoyances of actually doing so, such as lines, snotty little kids whom are being "babysat" by the arcade and my "favorite" the guy (or again, little kid) who thinks they're an expert on every game in the arcade and won't shut up. Now that consoles are online (starting with the last generation and expanding this one) the whole competitive thing isn't even there for arcades anymore and you can mute/ignore the annoying people online, plus you don't have to waste a pocket full of quarters.

Unless arcades can once again manage to offer something you can't really get at home, aside from little gimmicks, I doubt they're going to make a comeback outside of being a niche anytime soon.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Looking at todays prices of things upkeep is the real killer,even if current traffic trippled it would not savemsot from the dust bin of history.

 

Te only way the arcade to offer a better experance would be to go to tech exstreams and that is much to costly plus there is no real call to  build such machines so it has no place left to go by into a nich in a hole on the wall.

 

I is fuzzy brained mew

http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/

(in need of a bad overhaul)

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

 Back in the day I fell in love with Virtua Fighter.  I would spend maybe $20 - $50 per week on that game.  When I heard that the Sega Saturn was coming out bundled with Virtua Fighter I was thrilled.  The arcade I played in was in a mall and was filled with crappy crane/claw and ticket machines.  It was mostly filled with little brats running around screaming.  You could win tickest and turn them in for such craptastic prizes as whistles and stuffed animals.  I couldn't wait to get out of that environment and the Sega saturn gave me my way out. 

 The arcades I remember were strictly coin-op and pinball, maybe a single crane machine.  The death of the arcade wasn't completely because of consoles, it was because the arcade transformed into a mini-Chuck E Cheese with their tickets and such.  I understand that businesses have to adapt to changes in the environment, but if you have mostly cranes and tickets in your arcade...it's not an arcade.

 

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I haven't been to the local arcade in years. I'll probably go sometime this week just to see what's there. I remember considering going in, but they have Dance Dance Revolution now and being in the same room asone of those things just bugs the shit out of me.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

As far as I can tell, the same thing is happening in Europe. I think that the problem is not only the high price we have to pay in order to play, but also the high difficulty of the arcade games.

I could beat House of the Dead II with little effort. Nevertheless I went to the arcade a few weeks ago and I found House of the Dead IV. Even if it cost a dollar, I gave it a try... and I was dead in two minutes. Come on, one dollar for two minutes of play??

I remember that in the 80s and early 90s you could "master" an arcade game (captain commando, Knights of the Round, Super Mario Bros, etc) and finish the whole thing with one quarter if you had the proper skills. I don't know of anyone who can finish an arcade game now with only one credit. The time that you get for the money you spend is just not worth it.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Congratulations. This news is about ten years old.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

From what I most read people do miss the arcades. However I think we have gotten lazy and are not doing anything about. Next time you see a arcade go drop a buck in it and step back to your child hood days.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Something about the lines Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat would make.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

As others have stated with the advent of the more powerful consoles (PS1\N64\Saturn era onward) arcades have been pretty much dropping like flys in the dead of winter.

What really killed arcades for me was the sky rocketing price to play them (my interest in them pretty much dropped to zero after they started to cost more then 25 cents to play) Heck, I remember when I was a child I could walk into a arcade with 2 bucks and have a total blast. Ah, Golden Axe, TMNT, The Simpsons and X-Men, how I loved thee.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I've been commenting on this for some time on other forums. It's really a shame, and a part of my childhood is basically extinct. Arcades also were a good way for kids to get around the rating system, as, while the games were rated with a traffic light system similar to the E/T/M distinctions, very few jurisdictions, outside Indianapolis, attempted to enforce it. I have had the idea for games like GTA to be adapted for arcades, with players being able to insert a card with their own personal data saved to continue their own games. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it will happen.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Hmm, arcades... When was the last time I was in one....

Oh I remember, it was when I spent a $1.00 on Virtua Fighter 3(it even had a dollar bill feeder, which was still rare & unheard of at the time), and lasted probably 30 seconds.

I know they need to make a profit off these machines, but I say all that just drove more people to consoles.  For a few bucks more you could just rent a game and play it for all you like, and around the late 90s the consoles started overtaking such arcade machines in terms of power & being true to the arcade version.

Back in the 80s to mid 90s arcades were the place to go to see amazing graphics, hang out with other game fans, and the number of machines & games to chose from was amazing.  Now when you go back to such amusement centers at something like a mini-golf, they are pretty much bare, and the games are usually old 80s to late 90s stuff that they still have because it hasn't been broken yet... Not to mention it is stuff you already played and can get on consoles, emulators, etc.

At least stuff like DDR has kept a few around, but there isn't much new stuff to bring people back into them.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

 I was thinking of Virtua Fighter when I mentioned the dollar thing but I couldn't remember if it was 3 or 4 (which would lead to a good size time gap) that I saw with the dollar feeding slot. That was just absurd. I do think they priced themselves out of business. That same dollar could certenly rent the game for a day, at least later when it was released and if you had the right console to play it.

Not Quite

Coin-op is not quite as dead as people tend to think, though it has changed form.  While there are fewer and fewer dedicated archades the coin-op industry is still pretty strong.

Check out AMOA or ASI sometime, those trade shows are going pretty strong.

I work for a company that produces coin-op games... we usually manage to sell around 40,000 machines per year (not including software updates for existing machines) and several billion $ in quarters pass through our machines.

Things have shifted to more of a tournament model over the years though.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

They just noticed this?

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I never really participated in the arcade scene, only watched from the sidelines. Then again, I was born in '88, so I suppose by the time I was old enough, it was past its prime.

So it goes...

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I still think they need to take a different approach to arcades, the games themselves can't really compete with computer & console ones but the experience can beat it. I remember seeing the large arrays of multiplayer racing cabinets & a few other games with unusual controls. I think thats the kind of thing they need to focus on, innovative controls and a community experience.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

The local arcade places closed 11 years ago in my city. They only exist in places like fun centers, and very few of them have anything modern. I still recall when people said arcades were the death of pinball machines... I just think arcades only continue to get money from kids usually that have pizza servings.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Arcades are mostly dying, at least slowly thinning out.  Reason could be console gaming, or it could be laziness.  Personally I think its the laziness.  Another reason could be because of online play (you can play a random kid at a game, but not have to worry about being next to him and trash talk all you want).

 

No matter what, its on the verge of dying.  Prices to play, to me, caused such a problem.  1 buck to play a game which most of the time is too difficult is not worth it.  I'll play it but it doesn't keep me on for long.  usually the cheap games or time crisis (favorite light gun game) keep me going.

 

Most companies do support arcades.  Nintendo pumped out F-Zero AX (goes with their GX console version, which was pretty cool) and made a mario kart arcade machine (which was cool).  Plus they are making (or is out) a half-life online game or something as an arcade machine, which should seriously help boost sales.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Sega does as well. They own the Gameworks chain of play centers that keep ticket games to a minmum to one corner of the complex, which I am greatful for. Not to mention a good handful of original machines.

-kurisu7885

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Japan still has it going on strong.  Gundam and Tekken 6 are the shit.  Arcades will make a huge comeback in the U.S. in the next ten-to-twenty years when we close to holodeck type stuff.  And, this is hardly news.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

From all the arcades I've seen the problems are as followed.

Badly maintained games, extremly expensive to play, lack of any decent games, lack of any popular games, and a few other things that persist.

I never liked going to the arcade to pay almost a dollar for a 1 minute game of AIR HOCKEY. I never was a fan of fighting games, and all the arcades I've been in are populated with things like Air hockey, Fighters, Shooters with dated graphics.

Tokens are a nice scam too. How many quarter does 1 token actually cost in some places?

As for home consoles. I can play with friends, play on my own, play online if I have enough cash sometimes. I have a wider variety of games that aren't pay to play, sometimes on a bigger screen (presuming I wasn't poor as hell which I am lol), I can let my family play it, I don't have to wait in line to play it. It's not near as noisy at my house either.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I think charging people a fixed amont - say a fiver or a tenner - to enter the arcade and buy either 30 mins or an hour of play time, rather than charging per go, would do a lot to save the arcade. At the end of the day, it's still a heck of a lot of fun going to down to an arcade wi8th some buddies and checking out the cabinets.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

THere are places that do the time thing. On my last birthday on a trip to Gameworks instead of buying credits we payed for two hours of play time, which meant we palyed as much as we want to for that amount of time. No ticket gamres can be played but only my mom plays those.

-kurisu7885

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I always loved to play Point Blank at my local Laser Quest.  I was pretty damn good at it and £1 or so would usually get me through to the end of the game.  I went in to an arcade last year and Time Crisis 3 was £1 for a single credit.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

There's a pretty active arcade next to the movie megaplex at the mall here. I think arcade machines are far from extinct, but the concept of a dedicated games arcade is indeed getting outdated.

Although I think the industry is partially to blame too- so many games are deliberately made hard and frustrating, almost as if we couldn't go home and play equally fun and more forgiving games often made by the same damn company... well, used to be anyway, how come all Sega's best games are arcade ones? The prices are high (a dollar to two dollars per play session here in Australia) and there's a steep learning curve.

But they do work in addition to other venues. Arcade games are great for entertaining kids while they wait to see a movie, and to cool down afterwards. You can leave 'em there while you go shopping. Theme parks and entertainment centres are often filled with arcade machines. And Dance Dance Revolution by itself has given the industry a new lease on life.

I never really got to experience the old style arcades, thanks to a rural upbringing and being born in 1990. Guess I never will.

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I blame lazy developers for this, I really do.  All the arcade games I have seen in the last few years have been completely rubbish.  I remember going to arcades as a kid and have *tons* of different games to choose from and being able to spend hours and hours playing.  Now I go to an arcade and all I see are shooting games, dance mat nonsense and *maybe* a fighting game or two...  it's pathetic.  And the quality of game is also no where near the standard of the games that I can play at home on a console.

What they should have done is embraced the home console market and actually used the 360s and PS3s as their arcade machines, charging for time rather than for lives.  If there were arcades near me that had 16+ 360s setup in a network with a decent catalog of games (and internet access) I know I would probably go there regularly (provided the pub was also well stocked)  ;)

/considers going into business

-- mostly harmless

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I'm all for freedom of ttnet vitamin speech and allowing rent a car game makers to put whatever they want in games, but there's one thing about this app that has me scratching my head.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but from araç kiralama the previous article araba kiralama on this I gathered that players can use Google maps in-game to find the other (real-life?) dealers in their area.  If this is the case, has travesti anyone considered what's stopping someone from using this app to actually move drugs between hands for reals?

But majority araba kiralama of their outrage araç kiralama stems from what it could DO TO children, not the content itself.  Talk to one of these people and you'll find they don't think any books kiralık araba should be banned from children.  Mention American Psycho and they talk about kiralık araç the redeeming value of using imagination to construct a story.  Reading, no matter what the content, is largely viewed as a consequenceless activity for people of any age.  The reason why I mention American Psycho is because of the content itself.  Gaming never has and likely never will have any scenes where someone has sex with a severed head.  Not gonna happen.  Yet despite this, they'll fight tooth and nail to protect their children from two boys kissing in Bully but whatever they read is harmless... yeah.

The entire arguement is kiralık oto based upon a social normality inflicted by luddites who can't figure out the controls for Halo so it's frightening and terrifying and obviously the cause of youth violence on the rise even though, in reality, it's in decline (which is actually a HUGE suprise given minibüs kiralama the economies status).  In  a perfect world, we would have parents that actually parent.  The idea of sales restrictions on media on oto kiralama any form to accomidate parental unwillingness to get involved with their child's life is the real problem to me.  Here I am, 32 years old, and being held up at a self-scan rent a car needing to show ID before I can buy a $10 M rated game all because Soccer Momthra can't be bothered to look at the crap Billy Genericallystupidson does in his free time.  It's too hard for her, so I have to suffer?

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

I'm all for freedom of ttnet vitamin speech and allowing rent a car game makers to put whatever they want in games, but there's one thing about this app that has me scratching my head.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but from araç kiralama the previous article araba kiralama on this I gathered that players can use Google maps in-game to find the other (real-life?) dealers in their area.  If this is the case, has travesti anyone considered what's stopping someone from using this app to actually move drugs between hands for reals?

But majority araba kiralama of their outrage araç kiralama stems from what it could DO TO children, not the content itself.  Talk to one of these people and you'll find they don't think any books kiralık araba should be banned from children.  Mention American Psycho and they talk about kiralık araç the redeeming value of using imagination to construct a story.  Reading, no matter what the content, is largely viewed as a consequenceless activity for people of any age.  The reason why I mention American Psycho is because of the content itself.  Gaming never has and likely never will have any scenes where someone has sex with a severed head.  Not gonna happen.  Yet despite this, they'll fight tooth and nail to protect their children from two boys kissing in Bully but whatever they read is harmless... yeah.

The entire arguement is kiralık oto based upon a social normality inflicted by luddites who can't figure out the controls for Halo so it's frightening and terrifying and obviously the cause of youth violence on the rise even though, in reality, it's in decline (which is actually a HUGE suprise given minibüs kiralama the economies status).  In  a perfect world, we would have parents that actually parent.  The idea of sales restrictions on media on oto kiralama any form to accomidate parental unwillingness to get involved with their child's life is the real problem to me.  Here I am, 32 years old, and being held up at a self-scan rent a car needing to show ID before I can buy a $10 M rated game all because Soccer Momthra can't be bothered to look at the crap Billy Genericallystupidson does in his free time.  It's too hard for her, so I have to suffer?

Re: Coin-op Arcades Are Fading Into Memory

Thanks good job;

Btw, I think Atari and Midway will drop out too, but mostly travesti because  these guys have done nothing travesti or little and need to start saving costs. and dizi izle

YES.

Now I don't have to get off my ass for the important shit anymore!

Whats next, ordering pizza from Xbox live?

Wait... I think that sounds like a good idea.

But I think voting should MAKE you get off your ass, and see outside or a second while you go vote. I mean, your picking the president of the United States of America for God's Sake... least you can do is drive down there and punch out a card.

 

GamePolitics ShoutBox

Posted 11/07/09 at 04:27pm
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Posted 11/07/09 at 04:26pm
ZippyDSMlee: replaced :P
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:23pm
ZippyDSMlee: beemoh:hey its like 60GB porn,400GB anime 100GB games and crap I have took from all my DVDs, I hate waiting on dvds to install stuff..... oh and 40GB of my porn was in the found.000 folder...mostly corrupted.... least I got names of wut needs to be repa
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:18pm
beemoh: @Zip: ...and you'd have to spend all that time re-downloading that porn?
Posted 11/07/09 at 03:34pm
ZippyDSMlee: ggrrrrr......vista lost one of my hard drives and I had a heart attack thinking I lost 1TB of data....
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:58am
JDKJ: Which could be explained by both (a) and (b).
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:56am
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: You forgot C) the fact that, for some reason, every time he did something that would suggest he shouldn't be in the military, let alone an officer, higher ups ignored it or let it slide.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:51am
JDKJ: Part of the problem is, I believe, that (a) the Army had a lot of time and money already invested in him and which they were unwilling to simply write-off and (b) an increasing need for the type of skills and services he provided.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:48am
JDKJ: And that even if he was begging not to get cut loose, he was apparently a real good candidate for being cut loose, anyway.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:11am
JDKJ: @chada: And while Kennedy once noted that there's usually more than enough blame for everyone to get a slice, the possibility that the Army was unwilling to cut loose someone who was asking to get cut loose could be a factor.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:07am
ZippyDSMlee: *noms on his feet*..nomnomnomnom*droooll* ...wuuutttttt uuu looking at?
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:05am
JDKJ: I'm no psychologist, but I'm told that crazy people have a tendency to do crazy things.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:03am
chadachada321: Whoops, was out of the convo for awhile. I do wonder what type of ammo he used etc, but the real issue is WHY he did it, not HOW
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:56am
JDKJ: But if it turns out that they actually did, they'll have Hell to pay.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:45am
JDKJ: And I'd tend to rule out the possibilty of FN Herstal supplying restricted ammunition to someone merely because they're ordering it from a military base.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:37am
JDKJ: I know you don't leave your gated community and get around much in dark alleys, so you may be surprised to learn that there's this thing called "the black market" where, if you've got enough money, ain't too much of anything which can't be bought.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:36am
Austin_Lewis: Or, maybe he or someone else at the base ordered the SS190 from FN Herstal.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:32am
Austin_Lewis: the hands of private owners. They run about 300 dollars minimum for a box of 50, and boxes of AP 5.7 are extremely scarce, mainly residing in the hands of Class III stores or individuals who for one reason or another got a demo box of it.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:30am
Austin_Lewis: There are other firearms that fire the 5.7. However, I too would like to know where he got the ammo and what kind was used. Maybe Hasan, planning not to live through this, went out and bought one the boxes of SS190 that are floating around in
Posted 11/07/09 at 08:44am
JDKJ: And it isn't yet clear what type of ammunition Hasan used. It's strange that he purchased a gun but didn't purchase ammunition for it at the same place and time. Especially because the calibre required is peculiar to the actual gun.
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