Games Not a Major Factor in Newsweek's In-Depth Report on Violence
Games Not a Major Factor in Newsweek's In-Depth Report on Violence
July 2, 2008
The current issue of Newsweek devotes five pages to a feature called "Anatomy of Violence."
Perhaps surprisingly, video games come in for only a scant mention near the bottom of the last page:
No discussion of violence in American culture is complete without mentioning blood-soaked videogames. Right after earning points for a graphic disemboweling, young players are more aggressive, but more in punch-little-sister mode than shooting up a mall. Still, there is evidence that violent games have a numbing effect. "When people stop feeling it's terrible that someone is getting hurt, that's dangerous," says [a researcher].
So, if not violent video games, what is causing violence in American society?
Scientists who study criminal violence... now believe that its roots are equally planted in the biology of an individual, the psychology that reflects the interaction of innate traits and experiences, and the larger culture. No single cause is sufficient, none is deterministic...
Louis Schlesinger, professor of forensic psychology at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, mass killers tend to be aggrieved, hurt, clinically depressed, socially isolated and, above all, paranoid.
Definitely worth a read if you have an interest in the topic...
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Posted 08/21/08 at 01:59pm
ZippyDSMlee: Boyycotting only works when sheeple care, the masses have to want to care about subtleties, in general they do not thus why corporate gets as far as it does. However boycotting can raise a fuss and the bad PR might make them take note.
ZippyDSMlee: Boyycotting only works when sheeple care, the masses have to want to care about subtleties, in general they do not thus why corporate gets as far as it does. However boycotting can raise a fuss and the bad PR might make them take note.
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:20pm
SimonBob: There's a full explanation of the FFXI PW fight up: http://rukenshin.livejournal.com/17133.html
SimonBob: There's a full explanation of the FFXI PW fight up: http://rukenshin.livejournal.com/17133.html
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:16pm
Talouin: @Quander, That fight is brand spanking new. People just don't know how to do it yet.
Talouin: @Quander, That fight is brand spanking new. People just don't know how to do it yet.
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:06pm
AM: @GP: Boycott is unlikely to be effective due to how few people would be aware/participate. That said, I boycott EA over their "3 installs then buy another copy" copy protection, so I can't say it's NOT a good idea.
AM: @GP: Boycott is unlikely to be effective due to how few people would be aware/participate. That said, I boycott EA over their "3 installs then buy another copy" copy protection, so I can't say it's NOT a good idea.
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:06pm
GryphonOsiris: @Scribe, just read that. The reports are saying that is was a targeted killing. Odds are a bully, gang related or something.
GryphonOsiris: @Scribe, just read that. The reports are saying that is was a targeted killing. Odds are a bully, gang related or something.
Posted 08/21/08 at 01:03pm
SimonBob: I just glanced over some of the companies' game lists; turns out I was already boycotting three of them anyway.
SimonBob: I just glanced over some of the companies' game lists; turns out I was already boycotting three of them anyway.
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:53pm
DarkTetsuya: @scribe999 yeah I heard about that, and I *thought* I saw a vulture circling the area...
DarkTetsuya: @scribe999 yeah I heard about that, and I *thought* I saw a vulture circling the area...
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:53pm
DarkTetsuya: @scribe999 yeah I heard about that, and I *thought* I saw a vulture circling the area...
DarkTetsuya: @scribe999 yeah I heard about that, and I *thought* I saw a vulture circling the area...
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:36pm
gamepolitics: is a gamer boycott of atari, codemasters, topware and the other 2 UK firms who are extorting file-sharers a good idea?
gamepolitics: is a gamer boycott of atari, codemasters, topware and the other 2 UK firms who are extorting file-sharers a good idea?
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:19pm
scribe999: Another school shooting...this time in Tennessee. Terrible news. And I'm sure there's much hyperbole to follow.
scribe999: Another school shooting...this time in Tennessee. Terrible news. And I'm sure there's much hyperbole to follow.
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:10pm
sortableturnip: hehehe ;)
sortableturnip: hehehe ;)
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:09pm
DarkTetsuya: @sortableturnip I'm totally putting what you said as my sig :P thanks!
DarkTetsuya: @sortableturnip I'm totally putting what you said as my sig :P thanks!
Posted 08/21/08 at 12:02pm
sortableturnip: OMG JT speaking in front of another BS group: http://jaablog.jaablaw.com/2007/09/04/ pardon-our-appearance.aspx?pg=2 &view=threaded
sortableturnip: OMG JT speaking in front of another BS group: http://jaablog.jaablaw.com/2007/09/04/ pardon-our-appearance.aspx?pg=2 &view=threaded
Posted 08/21/08 at 11:50am
Neeneko: @Quander - I"m not all that familiar with FFXI, but maybe this mob just requires more gank? or there is a trick? larger group?
Neeneko: @Quander - I"m not all that familiar with FFXI, but maybe this mob just requires more gank? or there is a trick? larger group?
Posted 08/21/08 at 07:54am
sortableturnip: The "smoking gun" is the Florida Bar dropping its insurance coverage from Nationwide
sortableturnip: The "smoking gun" is the Florida Bar dropping its insurance coverage from Nationwide
Posted 08/20/08 at 05:19pm
jccalhoun: it would be interesting to hire a detective to investigae Jacko and find out his "smoking gun"
jccalhoun: it would be interesting to hire a detective to investigae Jacko and find out his "smoking gun"
Posted 08/20/08 at 03:18pm
sortableturnip: That guild forgot to pick up the "Sword of 1000 Truths" b4 engaging the mob ;)
sortableturnip: That guild forgot to pick up the "Sword of 1000 Truths" b4 engaging the mob ;)
Posted 08/20/08 at 03:09pm
Quander: Check out this story at Yahoo:http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/new-game-enemy-takes-a-solid-day-to-defeat/1238418
Quander: Check out this story at Yahoo:http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/new-game-enemy-takes-a-solid-day-to-defeat/1238418
Posted 08/20/08 at 02:05pm
sortableturnip: It's funny, he sends a letter b4 any investigation...what a moron...
sortableturnip: It's funny, he sends a letter b4 any investigation...what a moron...
Posted 08/20/08 at 02:00pm
GRIZZAM PRIME: @Nova: 643
GRIZZAM PRIME: @Nova: 643
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Comments
okay, before people make lots of comments saying ''they didn't site the researcher'', their are things called space limitations in magaziness. Every inch counts. If they had sighted the researcher, they would have had to also explain who they were, and why their opinion mattered. So pleaese , don't go on a ''newsweek is just like fox'' rant. I read the article and it's pretty good.
While I'm not having a go at News Week (they are far better than Fox - although they are also not beyond sensationalism either), your comment doesn't really make sense. The "Anatomy of Violence" article is a web exclusive (so is not appearing in print) and so your reason for them not citing their research does not apply.
-- mostly harmless
I've never seen this "numbing effect". I've played both GoWs through to their ends and blood and gore affects me no differently than before I had played them.
Is this "numbing" ever properly defined in any of these arguements? Like, ever?
I've also never felt like punching my little sister after playing video games. Maybe I'm just so "numb" that they don't affect me anymore.
No kidding. I am wondering what this numbing affect is? Apparently you become numb and violent when you like hearing a loud noise longer than other people.
I can see a part of the arguement: when you see blood and gore frequently enough, like say, a surgeon would, it doesn't affect you very much. The problem is: 1. this kind of conditioning never changes behaviors other than shock responses, and 2. video games haven't been proven to have this effect at all.
I have seen all 4 SAW movies, the Hostel, The Devils Rejects, (and many others). All of them are gruesome and contain excessive amounts of gore. I will accept that I have become somewhat used to seeing this kind of gore on screen or in movies, HOWEVER when I recently went to hospital I had the misfortune of seeing someone I knew in a very bad way and I found out the hard way that I am not at all decensitised to the real life equivelant.
I don't think games or movies, no matter how gory or graphic, can truly prepare you for the equivelant scenario in real life.
Game and Movie violence will decensitise you from further Game and Movie Violence.
Real life violence will decensitise you from further Real life violence.
From my experience, these two things do not cross over.
-- mostly harmless
numbing is apparently the new code word for desensitization, I guess they wante d shorter word to throw around. Anyhoo numbing usually mean that exposure to a particular scenario or image will create less of a response in a person the more times they see it. This is why people who have been on 4chan or somethingawful for years don't bat an eye at thing that might make other people throw up or run out of the room screaming. Basically it means you build a tolerance to the image or images to a point were it no longer has a major effect on you. This is often used to help people with severe phobias. The worry is that if you desensitize to violent imagery than people won't have the fear or avoidence of it they normally would.
The trouble with this line of reasoning is that desensitization is only used with anxiety disorders and phobias, things that are fundamentally irrational fears. Even then it doesn't take away that fear totally it just reduces it to a level that is manageble. Also assuming that the thory behind this holds then you would still only be desensitized to violence in a virtual world, you would need heavy exposure to real world violence in order to get a real desensitization.
After you have seen goatse enough.... it just stops bothering you. Infact you can almost view it in a detached and clinical way.
IT is a great industry amirite?
Try working in a doctor's office sometime. After the twelfth time you open mail to see pictures of someone's diseased colon - just before lunch - it stops bothering you.
-Gray17
I agree with you man, I can chainsaw someone in half in GoW without hesitation but if faced with real gore I can't take it. For example surgery or something like that I can't even watch it, but I've been playing FPS's since Wolf3D, obviously it hasn't desensitized me to blood and gore.
there's a game where you can disembowel someone?
and get "points" for it? Are these like the "points" I can get on my drivers license?
okay, enough with feigning ignorance for me. I know of only a few violent games that have a score factor: Wolfenstein 3D and Mortal Kombat I, and neither one is recent nor has disemboweling.
岩「…Ace beats Jack」
Sub-zero's fatality comes pretty close. There's gotta be some guts on that spine.
---------------------------------
So speak I, some random guy.
Dead Rising's disembowel move DOES give you points, exp. pts. But those are zombies. OH WAI-
I forgot that zombies count as ppl these days
For points, no less.
/sigh @ Newsweek blurb
In Dead Rising, yeah you can.
I'd imagine the chainsaws in Gears of War would count as disemboweling (especially the from-behind ones in Gears 2) and you get points for that.
Just read the article all the way through. The gun culture references were stupid, and were the only serious flaw. The biggest point is that the killers, through a combination of biology, interactions, and surrounding culture, come to the conclusion that the killings are the only way to gain back power. I agree, mostly, with the conclusions, but the authors seemed to have fundamentally misunderstood the role of culture in killings.
Because a culture that espouses hyper-masculinity and easy access to weaponry designed with killing as it's sole purpose , and enthusiastically encourages people to buy and become skilled with said weaponry can't possible have any role in violence, can it?
Culture can't "espouse" anything. Cultures do not speak. Cultures have no body.
Where on Earth are you from? Canada? The UK? Can any American here adequately describe the culture they live in as this person does? I certainly can't. Guns are expensive, it's hard to find shops, and hyper-masculine people are rare. Mullets and beer bellies are not masculine.
This poster was obviously European, and a poorly educated one at that. No part of American culture espouses hyper masculinity except for the trailer trash/ ghetto culture, and real gun culture emphasizes SAFETY first and foremost. Of course, many Europeans have this view of our gun culture because they have no real gun culture of their own, and don't understand it.
No on all counts. I'm american (gulf war vet.), and a college graduate. i like how you automatically felt a need to impugne anyone who disagreed with you. And I wasn't talking about American culture in genreal, but gun show and gun culture specifically, which I have had a great deal of experience with, and which promotes easy acess to guns and trains people on the use of them. Of, course rather than explaing how this has no posssiblity to lead to violence and shouldn't be in the newsweek article, you instead choose to attack my nationality and patriotism. So, I'm gonna take a guess and assume that you're a conservative, and therefore not willing to debate on an issue when you can just insult people. (See, I can make baseless attacks on people too! It's fun, isn't it.)
As stated above, "gun culture" is an illusion. The pro-gun groups tend to emphasize safety. If you really were singling out the "hillbilly" culture, then you've picked a group that has little to no influence on society.
I suggested that you were foreign because your post reminded me of someone who had only seen American action movies and assumed that they were representative of America overall.
Not true. The NRA is the largest pro gun group there is, and they have a very clear political agenda.
And that negates the point that "gun culture" encompasses such a broad group as to be meaningless as a term... how exactly?
Yes there's a very large pro gun group that lobbies to protect second amendment rights, and promote gun safety. That doesn't mean that the "gun culture" you refer to isn't a lie/illusion.
-Gray17
I impugne you because you act like a man who has no real knowledge of American gun culture. Your past military service has no bearing on this (I'm a vet too, both gulf wars, but that alone doesn't make me qualified to make comments on the subject; its the degrees in sociology and criminology). I don't know what gun shows you go to, but the only people I know of who fit the archetype you set before us are white trash and ghetto youth 'culture' punks.
Of course, since you bring up the idiotic 'gun show loophole' bandied by fools in the Brady Campaign and their ilk, I'm sure you know of the 1997 DoJ survey that found only 2 percent of firearms used in crimes by about 3600 inmates were obtained at gunshows, while the rest were obtained in deals on the street, from other gang members, or from theft.
I'd assume you also know about the 2007 report on the same topic, done by the FBI, which found pretty much the same thing, but also added that less than .1 percent of deaths were from assault rifles, making your average cop twice as likely to be shot by his own pistol than an AR.
Guns alone don't cause violence; look at England, where knife violence is a very real problem. All their gun laws didn't do much to drop their incident count, and it changed it to a much more brutal form of violence than gun violence.
So, to sum up, the thing you seem to think is gun culture is the idiotic 'culture' of the ghettos and trailer parks, and real gun culture is actually SAFETY oriented.
So the NRA is not part of ''real gun culture''? Because they have a pretty clear focus on gun politics, as well as safety. I brought up my war record as a aside because you dissmissed me as ''uneducated european'', and I didn't say, '' I'm a vet so I'm right.'' Anyway, if you count only firearms enthuiasts or collectors and hunters as all of gun culture , then yes it is safety oriented. However, if you count the gun shows, the militia freaks, and the two groups that you named, among others, then yes I would say that this culture has a role in promoting violence. And as to your point about gun shows, that was over ten years ago. And among known criminals, people who would have had difficulty procuring a weapon through conventional channels. And what are you trying to prove by saying that knife violence will increase as a result of gun control. Of course it will. It may be ''brutal'' (gun violence isn't?) but I would rather be attacked by someone using a knife than someone with a gun. And the reaon that gun control didn't do much there is because in the UK less than 0.1% of the population had a gun before the ban. Here, the effect would be much more dramatic. Not that it will ever happen, because the ratio of gun control lobbyists to gun rights lobbyists is 3:1.
I'm not gonna take sides or get involved in this arguement, but I would like to ask why whenever people bring up gun control it always turns into a "fuck you!/ Yeah, well fuck you back!" kind of arguement?
-If shit and bricks were candy and tits, we'd all be livin' large. For information on games and psychology, look up: Jonathan Freedman(2002)Block & Crain(2007)Grand Theft Childhood, by Harvard Medical School researchers Larry Kutner and Cheryl Olson
Probably because one side tends to be hell bent on banning weapons rather than fixing root problems. Whenever you have one side that wants to scapegoat rather than address the real ills of society, debates tends to degenerate. Gun control just happens to be worse because protection of gun ownership is written into the constitution. Makes it difficult for the ban it crowd to come up with a good arguement.
-Gray17
Hmm. Yeah, me being a constitutionalist I always support gun rights, but I'm willing to hear counter views so long as they're civil and at least somewhat intelligent. Unfortunately, most of the time it degrades into bullshit and insults, and political framing, like calling gun right supporters "rednecks" or calling gun control supporters "hippies". It's pretty damn juvenille.
-If shit and bricks were candy and tits, we'd all be livin' large. For information on games and psychology, look up: Jonathan Freedman(2002)Block & Crain(2007)Grand Theft Childhood, by Harvard Medical School researchers Larry Kutner and Cheryl Olson
I don't know what state you live in (I've heard Michigan has an insane militia) but my state militia is made up of vets who value their second amendment and remember what that Japanese General said about America in World War 2.
NRA culture doesn't promote violence, it promotes responsible ownership. They fight for the right to own firearms (within reason) for any responsible citizen. Most gun show operators are very safety oriented, but some are private collectors who can sell without NICS approval because they do it a few times a year.
The fact is, the majority of gun owners are intelligent and responsible. The ones you hear of in the news are the ones who aren't. The ones who don't notice that their shotgun is missing (Columbine), the ones who don't lock them up (same), and the ones that don't know to keep them out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. No one ever does a news story on the man who owns four class three weapons, four pistols, and three ARs and says 'he teaches others to use them in a safe manner while exercising his right to own firearms, and he's a good citizen', they all go for the 'gang member with a gun (never mind that it was stolen from a man who had every right to own it) shoots three before cops end his pathetic life' story because its oh so sensationalist.
If you think that the NRA is a part of this imaginary problem of encouraging violence, I suggest you go to one of their pistol defense seminars.
Ah, yes, and let's not forget that killing is not what guns were designed for. Guns are designed for propelling a leaden projectile through the air at high speeds. What you use that projectile for is up to you. But you do not always have to kill. Nor does access to weaponry mean that you must kill with it. People kill. Weapons aid.
That's bullshit. Most if not all, and certainly all military weapons, are designed from the ground up with killing as efficently as possible in mind. Why do you think that the machine gun was invented? To cut down swathes of people in rapid succesion, not to innocently propel leaden projectiles into space, but with the express intent of impacting them into as many bodies as possible. I'm not implying that guns themselves are immoral or evil, they are simply tools that are very effective at what they do, which is kill. And while access to weaponry doesn't equal usage of weaponry, how devestating would virginia tech have been if Cho had two steak knives?
And while access to weaponry doesn't equal usage of weaponry, how devestating would virginia tech have been if Cho had two steak knives?
Probably still pretty damn bad. A guy determined to kill a bunch of people would usually manage quite a bit of damage no matter what. Plus he'd probably have turn to bombs as well as knives.
-Gray17
How many people do you know who own machine guns?
And like Krono said, if all he had was knives he'd have made pipebombs too; if someone's determined to kill people they'll find a way.
Not sure about the "numbing" part, but the rest is fine with me.
"Louis Schlesinger, professor of forensic psychology at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, mass killers tend to be aggrieved, hurt, clinically depressed, socially isolated and, above all, paranoid."
Looks like I'm 4/5...
I've been a subscriber to Newsweek for quite some time, and I gotta say, this is one of their worst issues in quite some time. Over half the magzine this week is specualtion in the guise of a Global Literacy campaign. There's not much news to it at all.
---------------------------------
So speak I, some random guy.
Actually, reading the article, it is very good.
"I'm not responcabel fer my comuter's spleling errnors." -- Xlorep DarkHelm
Unrelated, but I like the cover picture. President Lincoln and I think that's Davinci have never looked tougher
Lol, that's Darwin. They were born on the same day, same year and newsweek did an article comparing who was more influential. I haven't read it yet.
---------------------------------
So speak I, some random guy.
So is Newsweek a part of the conspiracy against Jack as well?
Of Course!
Along with the Washington Post, the NY times, MSNBC, Rockstar, Kotaku, Joystiq, GP, the FBI, CIA, the Florida Bar, and the entire state of Alabama!
That list will have doubled in 10 years time, I'm certian.
In case anyone like me went crambling through their print-version of Newsweek wondering where the hell this article is...it's a web-exclusive. Just click on GP's link.
So if I play a lot more "ultra-violent" games maybe I'll finally be able to get through one of those beheading videos of reporters or soldiers that were released years ago? It hasn't worked yet.
I said it years ago, play one of those videos infront of a bunch of kids and then look for the ones that keep staring and watching it, those are the kids to look out for.
I actually would try and stomach that kind of video if it was presented to me. Not because I like it or anything, but because it WILL desensitize me to blood/gore a bit. How else can I expect to stand being an obstitrician or being able to keep my cool as a lifeguard if something REALLY bad happens?
Personally I don't think I'm prepared enough for some of the worse things out there (shootings, stabbings, drownings, etc) in the event of an emergency
This bit jumped out at me...
It is a specific kind of paranoia: a tendency to blame everyone but themselves for their troubles, to believe the world is against them and life is unfair. "They see others as being responsible for their problems; it's never their fault," says James Alan Fox, professor of criminal justice at Northeastern University.
Hmmm... Does that sound like anyone we know?
Louis Schlesinger, professor of forensic psychology at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York, mass killers tend to be aggrieved, hurt, clinically depressed, socially isolated and, above all, paranoid.
...Emo?
mass killers tend to be aggrieved, hurt, clinically depressed, socially isolated and, above all, paranoid
@Twin-skies.
Damn, you got there first. I was about to say that this is a good description of teenagers. (At least it was in the long-ago days when I was one). :)
Things to remember:
Desensitization can be a good thing, see for example Police officers and other emergency personell.
Desensitization and loss of emotional response are two different things. If they are the same, why are there still so many soldiers with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder)?
Desensitization is NOT always permanent. Re-sensitization is a real thing, as shown in Donnerstein and Linz's rape research (they were testing to see if sexually violent films desensitize men to the plight of rape victims).
-If shit and bricks were candy and tits, we'd all be livin' large. For information on games and psychology, look up: Jonathan Freedman(2002)Block & Crain(2007)Grand Theft Childhood, by Harvard Medical School researchers Larry Kutner and Cheryl Olson
Here's a link to some interesting literature: www.calstatela.edu/faculty/sfischo/violence.html
-If shit and bricks were candy and tits, we'd all be livin' large. For information on games and psychology, look up: Jonathan Freedman(2002)Block & Crain(2007)Grand Theft Childhood, by Harvard Medical School researchers Larry Kutner and Cheryl Olson
In other news, The Real Jack Thompson, Attorny (For now) files an injunction against Newsweek - preventing them from distributing this issue futher for not making a bigger issue out of video games or blaming them exclusively.
Ya know what the sad thing is? Its that while its satire and/or a joke.. I can just imagine JBT doing just that...
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