BREAKING: Disbar Jack Thompson Forever, Bar Trial Referee Says
BREAKING: Disbar Jack Thompson Forever, Bar Trial Referee Says
July 9, 2008
This story is evolving. Here's what we know so far...
Jack Thompson began circulating e-mails a short while ago claiming that Judge Dava Tunis (left), the referee in his November, 2007 trial on ethics charges brought by the Florida Bar, has recommended that he be disbarred for life.
As in forever...
In May, GamePolitics broke the news that Judge Tunis had recommended to the Florida Supreme Court that Thompson be found guilty on 27 of 31 counts of professional misconduct.
In June, Florida Bar prosecutors requested a 10-year "enhanced" disbarment for the controversial attorney, who stormed out of the hearing.
Tunis had until September 5th to provide her final report to the Florida Supreme Court, which will make the ultimate determination of Thompson's professional fate. Apparently the judge has finished her task ahead of schedule.
We are presently working on confirming Thompson's claim as well as obtaining a copy of Judge Tunis's report. In the meantime, we note that Thompson wrote in an e-mail circulated at 1:12 PM today:
I got the always helpful Dava Tunis’ final Referee’s Report today, recommending a life-time disbarment (my life, not hers). The Bar only asked for ten years.
A second e-mail from Thompson to the Florida Supreme Court begins with:
Your Referee down here, Dava Tunis, the one who does not have a federally-mandated loyalty oath even to be on the bench, just today issued her final Referee’s Report in the above matter, and she rejected The Bar’s recommendation of a ten-year disbarment for me and instead is asking you to disbar me permanently with no opportunity ever to apply for reinstatement.
GP: It's important to point out that Judge Tunis is only making a recommendation. Thompson has not been disbarred. Only the Florida Supreme Court can make that determination.
(more to follow)
While you're waiting, check out all of GP's coverage of the Thompson Bar Trial...
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Posted 11/07/09 at 11:33pm
JDKJ: BREAKING: In photo-finish at the wire, House passes health care reform bill. Relatedly, in fit of pique, Austin Lewis kicks innocent dog.
JDKJ: BREAKING: In photo-finish at the wire, House passes health care reform bill. Relatedly, in fit of pique, Austin Lewis kicks innocent dog.
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:27pm
ZippyDSMlee: man I got alot of junk and dup files too >< god I need orginization...and no not the knee capping media mafia kind :P
ZippyDSMlee: man I got alot of junk and dup files too >< god I need orginization...and no not the knee capping media mafia kind :P
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:26pm
ZippyDSMlee: replaced :P
ZippyDSMlee: replaced :P
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:23pm
ZippyDSMlee: beemoh:hey its like 60GB porn,400GB anime 100GB games and crap I have took from all my DVDs, I hate waiting on dvds to install stuff..... oh and 40GB of my porn was in the found.000 folder...mostly corrupted.... least I got names of wut needs to be repa
ZippyDSMlee: beemoh:hey its like 60GB porn,400GB anime 100GB games and crap I have took from all my DVDs, I hate waiting on dvds to install stuff..... oh and 40GB of my porn was in the found.000 folder...mostly corrupted.... least I got names of wut needs to be repa
Posted 11/07/09 at 04:18pm
beemoh: @Zip: ...and you'd have to spend all that time re-downloading that porn?
beemoh: @Zip: ...and you'd have to spend all that time re-downloading that porn?
Posted 11/07/09 at 03:34pm
ZippyDSMlee: ggrrrrr......vista lost one of my hard drives and I had a heart attack thinking I lost 1TB of data....
ZippyDSMlee: ggrrrrr......vista lost one of my hard drives and I had a heart attack thinking I lost 1TB of data....
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:58am
JDKJ: Which could be explained by both (a) and (b).
JDKJ: Which could be explained by both (a) and (b).
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:56am
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: You forgot C) the fact that, for some reason, every time he did something that would suggest he shouldn't be in the military, let alone an officer, higher ups ignored it or let it slide.
Austin_Lewis: JDKJ: You forgot C) the fact that, for some reason, every time he did something that would suggest he shouldn't be in the military, let alone an officer, higher ups ignored it or let it slide.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:51am
JDKJ: Part of the problem is, I believe, that (a) the Army had a lot of time and money already invested in him and which they were unwilling to simply write-off and (b) an increasing need for the type of skills and services he provided.
JDKJ: Part of the problem is, I believe, that (a) the Army had a lot of time and money already invested in him and which they were unwilling to simply write-off and (b) an increasing need for the type of skills and services he provided.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:48am
JDKJ: And that even if he was begging not to get cut loose, he was apparently a real good candidate for being cut loose, anyway.
JDKJ: And that even if he was begging not to get cut loose, he was apparently a real good candidate for being cut loose, anyway.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:11am
JDKJ: @chada: And while Kennedy once noted that there's usually more than enough blame for everyone to get a slice, the possibility that the Army was unwilling to cut loose someone who was asking to get cut loose could be a factor.
JDKJ: @chada: And while Kennedy once noted that there's usually more than enough blame for everyone to get a slice, the possibility that the Army was unwilling to cut loose someone who was asking to get cut loose could be a factor.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:07am
ZippyDSMlee: *noms on his feet*..nomnomnomnom*droooll* ...wuuutttttt uuu looking at?
ZippyDSMlee: *noms on his feet*..nomnomnomnom*droooll* ...wuuutttttt uuu looking at?
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:05am
JDKJ: I'm no psychologist, but I'm told that crazy people have a tendency to do crazy things.
JDKJ: I'm no psychologist, but I'm told that crazy people have a tendency to do crazy things.
Posted 11/07/09 at 10:03am
chadachada321: Whoops, was out of the convo for awhile. I do wonder what type of ammo he used etc, but the real issue is WHY he did it, not HOW
chadachada321: Whoops, was out of the convo for awhile. I do wonder what type of ammo he used etc, but the real issue is WHY he did it, not HOW
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:56am
JDKJ: But if it turns out that they actually did, they'll have Hell to pay.
JDKJ: But if it turns out that they actually did, they'll have Hell to pay.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:45am
JDKJ: And I'd tend to rule out the possibilty of FN Herstal supplying restricted ammunition to someone merely because they're ordering it from a military base.
JDKJ: And I'd tend to rule out the possibilty of FN Herstal supplying restricted ammunition to someone merely because they're ordering it from a military base.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:37am
JDKJ: I know you don't leave your gated community and get around much in dark alleys, so you may be surprised to learn that there's this thing called "the black market" where, if you've got enough money, ain't too much of anything which can't be bought.
JDKJ: I know you don't leave your gated community and get around much in dark alleys, so you may be surprised to learn that there's this thing called "the black market" where, if you've got enough money, ain't too much of anything which can't be bought.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:36am
Austin_Lewis: Or, maybe he or someone else at the base ordered the SS190 from FN Herstal.
Austin_Lewis: Or, maybe he or someone else at the base ordered the SS190 from FN Herstal.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:32am
Austin_Lewis: the hands of private owners. They run about 300 dollars minimum for a box of 50, and boxes of AP 5.7 are extremely scarce, mainly residing in the hands of Class III stores or individuals who for one reason or another got a demo box of it.
Austin_Lewis: the hands of private owners. They run about 300 dollars minimum for a box of 50, and boxes of AP 5.7 are extremely scarce, mainly residing in the hands of Class III stores or individuals who for one reason or another got a demo box of it.
Posted 11/07/09 at 09:30am
Austin_Lewis: There are other firearms that fire the 5.7. However, I too would like to know where he got the ammo and what kind was used. Maybe Hasan, planning not to live through this, went out and bought one the boxes of SS190 that are floating around in
Austin_Lewis: There are other firearms that fire the 5.7. However, I too would like to know where he got the ammo and what kind was used. Maybe Hasan, planning not to live through this, went out and bought one the boxes of SS190 that are floating around in
Copyright © 2007 ECA. All rights reserved.
Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Game Politics and Game Politics logo are trademarks of the ECA.
Comments
LOL, I love how he keeps pushing that loyalty oath bs.
If the facts are against you, hammer on the law.
If the law is against you, hammer on the facts.
If the law and the facts are against you, hammer on the desk.
Or in Jack's case, a fax machine.
LOL Office Space
Apparently she's signed a new loyalty oath, according to an article found on Law.com...
- June 5, 2008:
Thompson has tried unsuccessfully to get Tunis removed from his case. He has challenged her authority to oversee his case based on differences in the signatures on her 2000 loyalty oath. An investigation by the state attorney's office found that her signature was forged, but the judge has since signed a new loyalty oath.
Thompson contends the forgery invalidates all her rulings, but the court contends that Tunis' authority flowed from her oath of office not her loyalty oath. The state attorney's office did not address the issue.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1202421944039
To be fair here...
If JT hadn't acted the way he did at the June hearing (i.e., petulant), then Judge Tunis may very well have gone with the bar's recommendation.
However, pissing off a judge at such a hearing and then storming out, doesn't win you any points with any side.
I would also guess sending a bunch of letters out and calling the judge insane didn't help his case too much, either.
Threatening to kill 3000 people, including possibly the judge, in writing probably wasn't a good tactical move either.
That and being a douche during the trial didn't help either.
What are the odds after this Jack Thompson is going to start going around wearing a Guy Fawkes mask?
Significantly less than the odds that people will start sending JT some Guy Fawkes masks....
Or a Batman mask...
The cynical side of videogames (spanish only): http://thelostlevel.blogspot.com/ My DeviantArt Page (aka DeviantCensorship): http://www.darkknightstrikes.deviantart.com/
So then would we have to ask Jack.... "Why so serious?"
Wait, Jack + Batman + Joker = Jackerman!
Heh, that doesn't sound right, but oh well!
I posted it before....and shall again
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3613/jackjokermu6.jpg
You know, V for Vendetta. I was thinking of that.
Lol, everyone should send him Guy Fawkes masks for the hell of it. It'd be funny :)
It may be just a recommendation, but YES YES YES THAT IS FANTASTIC.
I'll break out the champagne and funny hats when its a done deal, never count JT out...
It was decided a long time ago that the celebratory drink and snack for the "Hit The Road, Jack" party is to be Guinness and s'mores cooked over the smoldering remains of Jack's career.
Fair enough, I will however not relent on the top hat
I will definitely break out drinks with little umbrellas and have a drunken Mario Kart tourney.
Sure, it's not mature. ...but it would be worth it.
Hmm, maybe we should do something more mature, then. I vote Doom 3, that's a good mature game. ;)
Good choice. Maybe get a little bit of Gears of War going?
The top hat is fine - attire was not decided, merely consumables.
Ok, so we need 5 truckloads of Guiness, and about the same for all forms of hard and soft drinks(Not all of us drink alcohol), and about 200 tons of chocolate and I'm not even sure HOW many tones of marshmallows and Graham crackers.
any other recomendations?
Hunting the shadows of the troubled dreams.
A lot of hot dogs. Preferably, kosher beef dogs. Perfect compliment to booze and s'mores. :D
Just a quick note, please make sure to denote which timezone you are referring your times to? Thanks!
---- There is a limit for both politicians against video games, and video games against politicians. http://www.goteamretard.com
The case is in Florida, as is Jack Thompson. GP is run out of Pennsylvania. Both are US Eastern Timezone. (Cue: "The more you know" jingle)
--- "Life's short and hard, like a body building elf." -- The Bloodhound Gang
No one deserves it more........
i've said this before, but honestly, a 10 year disbarment, basically would be lifetime disbarment for jack, think about it, he is already near 60 years old, does anyone honestly think that at the age of 70 he's going to reaply for his liscense?
I got the always helpful Dava Tunis’ final Referee’s Report today, recommending a life-time disbarment (my life, not hers). The Bar only asked for ten years.
does anyone else notice that he's got this really bad habit of making off the wall comments that can be construed as threats, i mean, why mention that it's his lifetime and not hers, unless he is forseeing her life coming to an untimely end
as for why she likely went above and beyond the bars request, it's probobly due to his constantly trying to do the same things that have gotten him in trouble, even after the bar recomended a 10 year disbarment, it shows that he can't conduct himself accordingly and more then likely never will
I have to agree, that part in brackets could very easily be seen as a veiled threat. Considering it's a rather unstable lawyer we're dealing with, i'd certainly consider it as such. Lets hope the proper authorities do so aswell.
As for the life-time disbarment, that would indeed a similar effect to the 10-year one, although I do not know if there's an age limit on applications for bar-licensing. Although i must admit, if the Supreme Court sentences him to a 10-year disbarment, I can see him in line for a new license the millisecond that period is over. He really loves throwing that "I'm a lawyer" bit around.
"I can see him in line for a new license"
Even a one year makes it next to impossible to practice law again in any state and most countries. You cannot just reapply you have to do pretty much everything that you did to get to be a lawyer in the first place and most people fail their first second even third attempts.
Ten year even South American countries where bribery of the legal system is how to get the verdict a certain way wouldn't take on such a lawyer.
Permenant pretty much no country is going to take him on as a lawyer.
I wouldn't be surprised, given Jack's hatred of rules and laws, if he just kept right on calling himself an attorney, in violation of the law.
In fairness to the psycho, I think the implication is that this is about his life, not hers, i.e. that we're talking about the disbarment of a man from his only profession.
Of course, I couldn't support his disbarrment more, myself. The man is delusional, and has been for decades now.
Hey jackie I suggest you try to bulldoze you way around and only accept the 10 year disbarment. Call it a personal favor to gamers everywhere.
Considering he followed up the recommendations by outright calling her a lunatic, yeah, I can see her recommending a longer suspension... Because it's clear he has no intent of even admitting fault, let alone repenting.
-- If your wiimote goes snicker-snack, check your wrist-strap...
I believe the phrase is "Oh Snap!"
I love how he's the one sending press releases about it like that'S a good thing (well, it is for us, of course)
Oh, I love the way this is going!!! The only thing that could make this better is if he got caught with a truckload of crystal meth.
-If shit and bricks were candy and tits, we'd all be livin' large. For information on games and psychology, look up: Jonathan Freedman(2002)Block & Crain(2007)Grand Theft Childhood, by Harvard Medical School researchers Larry Kutner and Cheryl Olson
That would explain a whole lot, actually.
"The world if full of stupid people....watch out."
my reaction to this post?
"aw damn! *headdesk* LOL"
Cause I was about to say the same thing. :P
I know some people that'll be very happy at this news, though. :D
PROTIP: Everyone is stupid; some people are just less stupid than others.
I think Jack Thompson's erratic behavior should merit a harsh sentence. His harrassment campaigns alone should disqualify him from ever practicing law again. He makes a mockery of court hearings and files countless frivolous suits and motions.
It's time for all that to end.
I.... I think I must be dreaming... this is way too amazing. It's not official, and it's not really more of a punishment than the 10 year, since he'd never be accepted again anyways.
What it is however, is Tunis slapping JT in the face for his horrible, and unjustified behavior that lead to personal attacks on her character and mental stability.
-"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
if this works out it'll be like...a second Christmas!
SWEET!!!!!!!!! WE MAY BE RID OF THAT BASTARD EVEN SOONER THAN WE THINK. THIS IS A GREAT DAY FOR GAMERS AND THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.
Does anyone else find this part in particular funny?
"she rejected The Bar’s recommendation of a ten-year disbarment for me and instead is asking you to disbar me permanently"
He says that as though he considers the Bar's recommendation to be fair. Which is really funny when you consider that we know he doesn't.
-Gray17
The bar request is fair. It gives him the chance to be a lawyer again. Tunis' suggestion is he can never be a lawyer again.
E. Zachary Knight
www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091
Except that as far as Jack was concerned, the ten year disbarment was unjust punishment. Persecution of him for his beliefs, when he himself had done nothing wrong.
Then the moment it's declined in favor of something worse, suddenly Jack thinks that the 10 year disbarrment was a fair and equitable thing. Instead of punative lashing out by a Bar desperate to silence him.
It's Jack's 180 on the Bar recommended punishment I find amusing.
Afterall, either one would be fair punishment for Jack's actions.
-Gray17
I think he really doesn't realise just how childish and unprofessional he actually is, he's now discovering exactly that.
Does this mean the Supreme Court will be making their decision sooner now that Judge Dava Tunis has released her final report sooner than expected? Or are we going to still have to wait until September?
I think Tunis is sort of overselling the point here, however.
Think about it: if it's just 10 years, Jack probably wont bother applying for readmission. However, if he does, he's required to demonstrate his fitness of character, which will REQUIRE that he admit wrongdoing in this matter, basically. Since he'd never do that, he'd never be readmitted. Other jurisdictions will refuse him admission either way, so that's not an issue. A permanent disbarrment is more symbolic than anything else.
I think it's more of her saying "I'm recommending removing the option of you being able to reapply at any time in the future, so you don't waste our time." My $0.02.
Actually this means she is royally pissed at him. The 169 page document explains that. You do not piss off a judge. She made that document so throughly that anyone in the legal system reading it is far more inclined to agree with. It's a 50/50 chance right now for Jack to get permenant disbared.
Most court rulings aren't a 100 pages but when they get that long it means the judges don't want any chance for an appeal to come about since they got so angry at one side during the trial they want that side to never have a chance of doing anything that brought up the case.
You do not piss off a judge by doing certain things in court. You can often tell when watching a trial when such a pissed off moment comes and that a certain side when the trial is done is going to get it's ass handed to it.
For example this article details one such moment. http://ydr.inyork.com/doverbiology/ci_3219254
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dover/day18pm2.html#day18pm1289 is the transcript. When a Judge asks to see a portion of the court record out of chambers and starts to question a witness directly it's a huge cloud of doom for the side of the questioned.
Jackhole's after hearing tactics worked perfectly! Who would've thought attacking the judge verbally and publicly daily every day after the hearing took place could've resulted in such a reaction from the judge.
Surely not Jackhole...
-- http://pixelantes.blogspot.com/
Yeah, she wants him gone...forever....this must mean he is winning.
"The world if full of stupid people....watch out."
I don't think there has ever been a more appropriate time for the saying, "If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."
For Jack's sake, I hope he realises that he's not jerking around gamers anymore, and that he's messing around with powerful people. People that have the power to end his carreer or put him behind bars (if he keeps messing around with U.S. Marshals.). He's not going to get away with flaming the US government and then just walking away.
Actually, with all the contact he's had with gamers in the past and his troll like behavior as of recent, I think a far more appropriate phrase comes to mind, "Be careful when battleing monsters, lest you become one."
Begin tuning up the band!
Nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey hey hey, gooodbye!
I was thinking of "Hit the Road, Jack" by Ray Charles
Well the Judge's song is definantly "These Boots are Made for Walkin'" by Nancy Sinatra.
Yes, Jack, one of these days those boots are gonna walk all over you.
After both of those songs, I want "Caramelldansen" played, so we can PARTY Jack's disbarment.
I support the lifetime disbarment.
I AM A LOST SOUL, CONDEMNED TO HAUNT THE DREAMS OF JOHN BRUCE "JACK" THOMPSON UNTIL HIS CRUSADE AGAINST VIDEO GAMES ENDS. SOMEONE, PLEASE! END MY SUFFERING!
We have to play the opening theme from the original Grand Theft Auto at some point. It is a must.
I was thinking "Tank!" by Yoko Kano and the Seat Belts (Cowboy Bebop theme) since Jack's days as a lawyer just Tanked big time.
I was thinking more along the lines of "F.O.D." by Green Day
He just keeps making things worse and worse, if he'd just learn to shut his mouth maybe the Supreme Court would go easy on him. At this point he's just going to keep getting crazier and more paranoid til he self destructs and they really do disbar him for life.
Please make it happen, please make it happen...
"my life, not hers"
Another veiled threat, Jack?
Noticed this in the most recent letter posted in the comments of JT's article on JAABLOG:
Fine. I’ll see you in court, and it won’t be your court. It will be one in which the judge cannot be bribed, as was Dava Tunis.
So now he's accusing Judge Tunis of having been bribed. Oh yeah, this'll end well.
*sniff* Hm... smells like... libel!
Nah, smells like Jack squeeling like a piggy.
Happy day!Oh HAPPY DAY!!!!!!
This just keeps getting better and better!!
"(my life, not hers)"
Wow. If that's not supposed to be a threat, I don't know what it is supposed to be.
checked out the JAABLOG and came across this little bit:
http://jaablog.jaablaw.com/2008/07/06/jack-needs-your-help.aspx
umm...not quite sure how to respond to that, but if you can't beat them...join them, then beat them. Or if you are a memeber of them already, berate and try to override them, then beat them. I get confused.
To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; credible we must be truthful. Edward R. Murrow
As far as I know this story originated in the North Country Gazette. It's quite a funny read if the extreme conservative bias doesn't make you vomit.
-"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject." -Sir Winston Churchill
I'm almost certain he wrote that himself....
Of course, to be the president of the Florida Bar, you have to be a member, which Jack won't be soon.
Huh... all I can think of right now is this song by Brave Combo. Coincidence?
The president was passing laws, he gave a call to Santa Claus
He said, "Get that toy machine on high.
Economy is in a slump. I know what can pick it up.
This year let's have Christmas in July"
Oh we'll have a Christmas , a summer Christmas
We'll have one fine-fun-time-unwinding-in-the-sunshine Christmas
Oh we'll spend yuletide, down by the poolside
This year let's have Christmas in July
I'm dreamin' of a hot Christmas
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, on the ice cream truck
Rudolf the sunburned reindeer!
Have yourself a very steamy Christmasssssss...yeah!
Who says Christ was a Capricorn? Maybe He perhaps was born
On the hottest Sunday of the year.
His birthday might have been the time to be on the beach at Galilee
Watching him change water into beer.
They'd have a Christmas, a summer Christmas
You'd see the Lord could surf without a surfboard Christmas
Could it be possible? Check out the gospel.
This year let's have Christmas in July.
Christmas in July was the first thought that crossed my mind
Thompson had it coming.
Can someone get me in contact with someone named either Captain Douglas Jay Falcon or Bart Lemming? I hear he has a mean punch. I want him to throw that punch at JT when he gets disbarred.
I AM A LOST SOUL, CONDEMNED TO HAUNT THE DREAMS OF JOHN BRUCE "JACK" THOMPSON UNTIL HIS CRUSADE AGAINST VIDEO GAMES ENDS. SOMEONE, PLEASE! END MY SUFFERING!
Captain Douglas Jay Falcon
Falcon...PUNCH!!!
He probably broke her fax machine, too.
"I got the always helpful Dava Tunis’ final Referee’s Report today, recommending a life-time disbarment (my life, not hers)."
Wow, as if the people he's writing this too would have trouble understanding that. He really DOES think he's the only one in Florida who passed grade school.
I took it to mean that he expects to outlive her.
Is it a threat? Hmmm...
Kidding, of course ;-)
Funny, I made a comment yesterday in the shoutbox regarding the issue of his calling out Judge Tunis and how he should stop insulting and trying and piss off the person in control of his "career". Shame she couldn't order him to not make any public statements regarding it his hearing.
The judge could recommend either lifetime disbarment, or 10 years conditional. The condition......that it be spent in an insane assylum.
So Jacky Boy gets to make death threats?
I am sure hypotheticly speaking if a man and wife were divorcing and he said "My life,not hers" the man in question would get nothing but trouble.
Again with the loyalty oath bullshit
Jack your carear is over, you lost and you brought it upon yourself. If you knew how to conduct yourself profesionally you wouldn't be in this position.
Oh, he knows how when it suits his purposes, however, he wasn't given exactly what he wanted, so evidently he felt no obligation to treat her with respect.
Na na na na
Na na na na
Hey hey hey
Goodbye
I now have this mental image of Jack frantically pressing B so it doesn't.
/b
Lmao! XD
"I now have this mental image of Jack frantically pressing B so it doesn't."
LOL. That made my day XD.
I thought that I too, might leave a burn for good ol' Jack.
At this point in the man's life, it's kinda like using brass knuckles on a three year old.