The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with Pirates in Less-wealthy Nations

July 15, 2008 -

In a novel, if certainly controversial suggestion, Filipino game design artist Ryan Sumo argues that video game companies should compete with bootleg sellers in poorer countries by selling products with minimalist packaging and even allowing the pirates to burn the actual discs.

Sumo makes his argument in a guest column for The Escapist:

Piracy supports an underground economy and the livelihoods of thousands... in Asia, especially in countries where most people live below the poverty line. This underground exists primarily because its participants cannot afford the exorbitant prices charged by game publishers...

 

Publishers and console manufacturers like Nintendo are convinced that once they stop piracy, the money from all those lost sales will suddenly come flowing into their coffers. For whatever reason they never take into account their prospective market's spending ability...

 

In the Philippines... piracy isn't a matter of right or wrong; it's a matter of survival. To eradicate piracy means depriving people of jobs... It means eradicating the businesses that employ them and negating the taxes funneled to the Philippine government. Developers and publishers will claim a huge victory, but they'll soon notice that those billions of dollars in lost sales aren't exactly showing up on their bottom line.

GP: This is a provocative way to look at the piracy issue. Sumo makes a reasonable economic argument. On the other hand, the publishers do have legitimate rights.

 


Comments

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

I'm all for freedom of ttnet vitamin speech and allowing rent a car game makers to put whatever they want in games, but there's one thing about this app that has me scratching my head.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but from araç kiralama the previous article araba kiralama on this I gathered that players can use Google maps in-game to find the other (real-life?) dealers in their area.  If this is the case, has travesti anyone considered what's stopping someone from using this app to actually move drugs between hands for reals?

But majority araba kiralama of their outrage araç kiralama stems from what it could DO TO children, not the content itself.  Talk to one of these people and you'll find they don't think any books kiralık araba should be banned from children.  Mention American Psycho and they talk about kiralık araç the redeeming value of using imagination to construct a story.  Reading, no matter what the content, is largely viewed as a consequenceless activity for people of any age.  The reason why I mention American Psycho is because of the content itself.  Gaming never has and likely never will have any scenes where someone has sex with a severed head.  Not gonna happen.  Yet despite this, they'll fight tooth and nail to protect their children from two boys kissing in Bully but whatever they read is harmless... yeah.

The entire arguement is kiralık oto based upon a social normality inflicted by luddites who can't figure out the controls for Halo so it's frightening and terrifying and obviously the cause of youth violence on the rise even though, in reality, it's in decline (which is actually a HUGE suprise given minibüs kiralama the economies status).  In  a perfect world, we would have parents that actually parent.  The idea of sales restrictions on media on oto kiralama any form to accomidate parental unwillingness to get involved with their child's life is the real problem to me.  Here I am, 32 years old, and being held up at a self-scan rent a car needing to show ID before I can buy a $10 M rated game all because Soccer Momthra can't be bothered to look at the crap Billy Genericallystupidson does in his free time.  It's too hard for her, so I have to suffer?

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

wether you like it or not, prices have a lot to do with theft. why would i pay $60.00 for somthing i can get for 15.00 or 20.00, and works almost identical to the original. i do wait for prices to fall on certain games but the price fall over the years has slowed to a crawl what used to take Six months now take Two years or more. yet another reason piracy is doing so well.

 

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Okay Mr. Sumo, I see your point.

Lets comprimise, I'll pirate the software itself and use your presuedly vast portfolio of game related artwork to advertise and sell my products.

The game companies shouldn't care because hey they wouldn't be seeing this money either and you shouldn't care because hey, these people weren't paying you royalties to use your intellectual properties either.

Meanwhile I get paid and I can go but myself something nice.

Everybody wins.

...

Clearly I'm being sarcastic.

A lot of time effort and money goes into the production of a game and I don't see how it's unreasonable to expect to be paid in kind for that work.
 

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Clearly a lot of time and effort didn't go into spellchecking my previous post.

yikes.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

I f you cannot afford video games, the answer is simple:  Don't play them.  This seems fairly obvious.  The high prices are no excuse for theft.  Prices are set by the market and what people are willing to pay.  If you think something is too expensive, then vote with your wallet and don't buy it.  There is no complication here and I'm not sure why there is even a debate at all. 

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

You remind me of someone I used to know. Someone whose nick begins with "Raw" and ended with "SteelUT."

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Before going further, you need to define your pirates. Game companies are familiar with the standard European/American guy with money who's too much a cheap bastard to pay for games. That's a given.

But in third world countries, not everyone is starving to death. The pirates are members of the middle class that has both the money AND the desire to play games, but a lack of access to those games. The ones pirating aren't necessarily the poorest of the poor, nor the WorldVision poster boys, many who probably don't know/care about videogames, let alone know how to read or write. No, it's the middle class and up the ones who have the technological savviness to copy a game to begin with, let alone torrent it and download a crack. That level of technical know-how starts in the middle class and up, not in the favelas.

When it comes to places like the Philipines/Colombia ect, people pirate for lack of options, not necesarily for being cheap bastards. If games are overpriced or if the game can't be imported to begin with, that's in the game company's court and it's up to them to stay competitive. If they are businesses, they better start acting like it.

Not all hope is lost: do not underesimate the appeal of a nice, original package and new shininess. For example, you don't HAVE to buy games like Final Fantasy or GTA4 on launch days. Anyone can wait a year or so and get it in the bargain bin. Yet people don't wait; they make an impulse buy.

Reasonably priced games set according to the socioeconomic levels of a country leads to happier gamers that will buy many games, instead of having to choose only one and pirating the others. Why? Rule of shininess and the fact that the world ISN'T completely rotten. You will always have the cheap bastards, but you have a chance to earn legitimate buyers. (It wouldn't kill the devs to lower production costs. That's why Square Enix went multi with the last FF on the XBox 360. The PS3 alone wouldn't put them in the black.)

The genius of iTunes isn't the price ---they're actually pricier than other services. It's ease of service. If the custumer really wants a CD, his question is: "do I spend hours searching and downloading a thing that may or may not work? Or checking out some other service that may not work with m iPod? Or do I take out my credit card in .09 seconds, click a buttom and get the song a like for the price of a Wendy's value meal?" That type of person doesn't care if CDs have better audio; they only want a song that they'll play a few times and forget about eventually.

There's an old business adage that says that if three guys in a garage can do the same thing you can do cheaper and easier, YOU are are doing it wrong. Pirates are winning, and sitting around complaining or adding Securom won't help or ignoring Third World markets won't help. Recognizing the market's limitations help: like someone said in this very thread, MMOs are making money in the Philipines. MMOs are particularly well-suited for the region, since they are hard to pirate and the subscription is cheap. If I ruled the world, I'd make MMOs a priority on Third World markets, since there's money to be had if you play your cards right.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Is Piracy wrong, yes it is. are multibillion dollor's company running around screaming pirates any better, no there not.

You can spin it anyway you want, Piracy is wrong(selling for money). Sharing is Okay. and the multibillion dollor company's that go after both are even worse. 

Should they compete, No. the game industre should lower its prices, on games to that to the movie industree, around 30 dollors. the pricing on games is outright robery.    

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Seems like a good idea to me.

The best way to challenge piracy is to compete with it.  The iTunes music store hasn't eliminated music piracy by any stretch of the imagination, but it's given people a cheap, convenient alternative and is doing damned good business.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

You still hit 10$+ on albums but its definalty a way forward for the music industry, a cheaper model like amazon I hope becomes more standard , the less DRM the better without high prices and silly restrictions people can rebuy as much as they want.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Not to mention you're hitting 10$+ for a lossy AAC album as compared to CD audio. When you think about it you're not really getting a deal at all because you're paying less for something of worse quality. When a company puts up a store that allows you to dl lossless albums I will stop buying CDs, until then I'm not going to pay close to the same price for stuff like itunes and amazon mp3s.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

this is also an issue in Colombia. While considerably better off economically than other latin american countries, videogames are still REALLY expensive, well over the $50 price tag, even for older games. And then there are games you cannot even FIND. Importing games is often not an options, since the shipping is often rather expensive and the mail is SLOW. Even the ocassional "save to get a $50 game" deal doesn't work too well considering the gouging prices. There is no system for trading games in, because there are only a handful of game stores in the capital and they offfer no such service. The rentals offered are usually on the crappy side, if available at all.

So... people get consoles, chip them up, and get pirated games. Sure, they may have crappy quality or whatever, but often the salesmen are willing to trade them back if they don't work. I much prefer getting original games and do so wherever I can, but I cannot afford to do so when I'm in Colombia, having to go to the US to get them.

The business opportunity for videogames is there. The desire for videogames is there. What is NOT there... is the economic resources to get an original product, which is why piracy is so big.

I imagine the situation repeats itself in many other nations, including the ones mentioned in this article.

 

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Rather then pirating games someone should be working to help localize them and bring them in legitimitley. I'm sorry it's more expensive for you, I really really am. But that doesn't mean you should get to buy illegal copies that don't benefit the people who created them. If you can't afford to play legal copies, then you can't afford to play. Period.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Wow what a way to miss the point why not have the black market not sale guns enslave people to trade or push drugs on people...or better yet have corporations share their profits wit the world!

The point here is that media needs to realize they need to change to focus on longer term outlooks, by adding alil debt in one sector to expand it and thus break even or better later, its deper than just "lulz they can't affordz it move along".......................

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

and all the more reason to do soemthing to get thos lost profits insted of ignore it and let the whole media indutry rot there, bootleggers jsut don't bootleg games but CDs and DVDs as well this is a issue the indutry as a whole has to deal with, ignoreing it and mispalcing the blame onthe consumer is not the answer.(I ahte this palce dose not work with FF's spell checker grrr!)

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

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Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Hmm, sounds like I get to be an unpopular opinion, yay.

So basically this guy's arguement is that the publishers won't get any of the money they aren't getting now, and thousands of people will be out of work.

How sad for them. I'm sorry but asking me to feel sorry for a software pirate when he gets caught and loses his income is akin to asking me to feel sorry when a thief gets caught and doesn't get the money for selling his stolen goods. The material isn't theirs to sell, so I can't really feel bad that they're not going to get paid.

Likewise, even if the publishers don't get any additional income from the people who would have bought pirated games, they can be assured they won't get any less, or at least not much less, either. They will be able to say that only those people willing to pay for the privlidge to play their games got to. Because that's what videogaming is people, a privlidge not a right. It's entertainment, and in reality if you can't pay for entertainment, you get to do without.

Also, I'm sure there are lots of more productive things these pirates could be doing with their lives, like I dunno, farming food for poor nations or something. The world needs lots of work to be done still.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with


Yes but 1 cent over the cost of production is profit thus they can chose to either fix the problem they made by ignoring it or keep on ignoring it, also it would not hurt corporate image if they tried abit harder to help reduce illicit profit from black market rings buy trying to offset regional prices more.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Or people could stop being selfish and say "Hey, I can't afford to pay for this so I'm gonna have to go without."

The Phillipines are not poor because of the Game Industry.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

or the comapnies stop being glutonus masses and see that becuse they do not properly distribute thier stuff they not only lose would be profit but aid the black amrket byproxy as well.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

It's not the companies responsability to suffer so that anyone who wants to play the games can. If you want to play the game, it's your responsibility to find a way to finance that yourself, if you can't tough luck, sucks to be you. As I said before, playing games is a privlidge and enterainment, not a right or a need.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

But they suffer for not doing it, dman if you do damned if you don't if you make leeway in a market you can gain a profit of it but not even trying to effect change is more assinie,corperations want profits handed to them on a golden plate screw working for it they want to spam out antaquited and flawed business practices in the hopes to maintain high profits, the music has found out such foolishness will end them, the music industry is finding out what poor business practices dose to their bottom line they a re trying to change but both the video and game industries need to get a clue before they implode on them selfs.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

No, the Philippines is poor because of countless other reasons.

This doesn't mean that they should be deprived of buying games :|

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

I sorta understand what he's trying to say, but at the end of the day he's basically asking these companies to compete with their own products....

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

In a ture free market there is no real monoply, so in a sence they have to in order to gain profit from aeras that otherwise would go untouched becuse they are not ensured a monoply.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

@GP

it's a surprise you suddenly have 2 game related articles about my country.. hehe...

 

anyway.. yeah, this article is so true.

Here's the thing, if it wasn't for pirated games, the PS and PS2 wouldn't have a large fanbase here.
it's a bit sad i know but it's true.

PC CDs sell for aorund P50, DVD around P100-120

PS used to cost around... P120(?) and now as low as P40. PS2 around 150 i think now around P75-100

i don't know the value of XBOX/360 games but my guess it's around there...

Original copies, depending on the game, cost as little as 1000 and up to 3000 (sometimes more, again, depends on the game) When i bought a copy of CnC3 and KW during their release dates it cost me 1700(?) and 1500 respectively (if i got the numbers right)

NOTE: As of the moment, the exchagne rate is somewhere in $1 = P45

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

ya but in some regoins the games need to be under 25 and it needs to be a broader indutry stndard.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

So far, only one publisher is thinking correct in terms of pricing (in the philippines) and thats EA. All EA games sold here are only around 30$ even the spanking new ones like crisis, kane's wrath, mass effect. I only buy original from EA and the occasional Valve game which is worth the 50$. But if alot more publishers would sell their stuff at around the 30$ here, then i would have owned alot more of those games.

It isnt much of a problem with the issue between spending for food or games. Most people who have trouble with basic living dont even know about the games and just watch the variety shows during lunchtime. Those who have a stable source of living are the ones actually playing the games, but when a single game could cost you a little more than 1/3 of your monthly salary then it makes you think of your options (this is a consumer standpoint with no morals considered since the free market idea is supposedly without restrictions).

Thats why in the philippines, the highest earning game related companies are the online game publishers since there is no way to pirate it without loosing some of its allure (IE private MMOs, seriously with less than 1k people in the server its hard to have fun as opposed to 5k people). People here would spend the entire day at the internet shops playing these types of games and they spend for the internet time, the game time (if there is) and any item shop. The average pay2play cost for these games is around 250-350 pesos which is 5-7$ per month add into that item mall spending which for the hardcore group is their bread and butter to stay competative and also the cost of internet time here is around 0.40$ per hour.

What does this mean? it means there is a very large group of people spending alot of money on games, but spending in "smaller" chunks at a time. These people might consider the 50$ price point as something they would never touch

Now if EA could sell their games at 30$, then maybe other publishers could also follow.

 

Fun Fact: gamecube games here are more expensive than wii games at the retailer (70$, 50$ respectively)

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

"And don;t bring morals they went out in the mid 90s" -- hence the problem.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

you winged me :P

 

But really one of the reasons for lack of respect is due to the industry seating tis bottom line right on the consumers, some of us have gone mad from the anal leakage dont'cha  know.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

But corporate morals (what little they had left) went out in the 80s. *shrugs* It goes both ways.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

thus why we need either a real free market or  regualtion to prevent profitering.

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

As someone who runs a business, I am shocked at the attitudes presented here about THEFT.  Guess what?  If you produce product and you DON'T GET PAID FOR IT, then there is no way to maintain the business- people lose their jobs.

My industry also has problems with theft, but if I dropped my prices to compete with cheaper, stolen goods, then I don't make enough to COVER MY COSTS.

With piracy, the developer is forced to cover the development costs of both legit and pirate copies (burning a DVD costs are negligeable compared to dev cost).  Forcing the developer to compete with a product (priated) that they SPENT THE MONEY TO CREATE and yet get ZERO payment out of it is absurd.

You people who defend piracy seem to think all businesses are just swimming in cash and can afford to have their goods consumed without compensation.  Profit margins aren't what you think- even at full price.

Keep stealing shit, you parasites.  You are making the world an even better place. :(

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

I agree that stealing for the sake of stelaing is bad. Piracy is bad. I hate it when people justify their theft.

My problem is that when game developers and publishers release a game in a poverty striken country such and the Philipines at US prices and then complain about piracy, they are the ones with their heads in the clouds.

True they have cost to recoup and money to make in order to make the next game, but they sure aren't managing the marketing very well.

Most of the time they will recoup their costs in the US, Japan and the greater portion of Europe within the first couple of months. They can then release a budget version in poorer nations to create a better market for legit games in those nations.

It would require a risk on their end, but if they managed that risk properly, it would be worth it in the end.

E. Zachary Knight
www.editorialgames.com
Oklahoma City Chapter of the ECA
MySpace Page: http://www.myspace.com/okceca
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1325674091

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Thats just it,

Can a budget version be made since 90% (I assume, I really don't know) of the cost is in the game development.

To lay the poverty of one country on the backs of another, isn't right either. 

I agree with a later release, lets say 7 months later when the full profits of the game have run their course.  Since the game is now considered old it becomes budget, but what are the chances that the people in the philipines don't want to wait that long.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

To lay the poverty of one country on the backs of another, isn't right either.

And this would be a change in their current business practices... how exactly?

They already do regional pricing with some countries getting shaffted with higher prices, simply because they can get away with charging them.

So why not take it to it's logical conclusion and lower the price to budget levels in places where the market can only support budget levels? Development costs have already been recouped elsewhere anyways, so why not acknowledge that a given area isn't going to turn a large profit, so instead settle for a small profit rather than no profit?

-Gray17

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Uummm Its called localizing profits,heres the funny thing about games they can be sold for 30$ USD and still get a profit, it would take a years worth of world wide sales rather than 3-7 months in the main 3 countries, they need revamp how they handle  localized ales the Australia thing is quite sad when you are paying twice the world wide average this is not mere profits but price gouging.

Its there own damn price fixing that creates piracy half the time!

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Heres how I precive it to "work"
you make a game with a world wide focus and are running say a healthy 120% in debt on the project, say your major regions will seek to reduce that debt by 30% each (EU,US,Jp) you have 30% debt left or at least planed debt still on the books for the next qauter now in the small region you are looking at a few thigns

add 3-8% debt to localize with maybe 1-2 other like regions to  leave it alone to gain 1-12% off your current debt over time.


or


You go say 10-20%  in debt for this one single project to ultra localize it to that region, the added debt is to make cheaper packaging,localization,ect  also factors in precived losses at selling at a loss, say in the first 3-6 months because you priced down you sale 3-6% wroth of profit which is 2-3 times as much as you once received from that market, within a years time you could break even on that project in that region and if you are making a profit off the game world wide that region has already started to make a profit, what you do is offset regional profit issues with each other instead of using the current theme of spamage.

I is have had a fcking nice mental day tell me if any of this "logic" works i the real world LOL

 

Also yuo can make a budget title that works in multi "poor" regoins and spam that out at like price to lower over all cost, the serge in sales along should offset the nromal ammount of loss or null profit in a years time, altho you stil need to keep margins tight you don't need to spend 30% of your bduget just making it for budget vile...altho at the same time if you recuop half that you'd probly be making more than not doing anyhting at all, also theres soemthign tob e saidfor building a media buyer/goer theem in a market...the indutry will have to do soemthign in order toget people to buy in..

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Theres a problem here, when millions buy the product and only hundred  or thousands don't pay for it wil the 30% differential keep a dev thats bleeding money out of the poor house the answer is no.

Also you are not competing on a world wide mini region by mini region scale, they NEED to reevaluate the smaller markets and see that if they sale 100K of product at full price and make alil profit or not enough to cover the price then they need to quarter the price with a localized focused lang/text/region locking if need be then you can sale to that 3-6 times as much having money coming in to offset debt, tis a long trem game plan the short sighted media industry can not handle thinking about.

And don;t bring morals they went out in the mid 90s when they decried they returns had to be ended because of piracy....more like a itchy bottom line that needed a few more LB added on to it.....

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Here Here, I will be a proponent of anti piracy all the way the day developers and publisher tell retail chains that they have to accept returns on the grounds that their product sucks.  I remember when I was a child if a game sucked my parents didn't go well to bad we are stuck with it they took it back and said this game was horrible we want our money back.  (God forbid if service is not to expectation or not rendered that you have to give a refund)

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Very true, I agree that software return policies are crap but isn't true that they were created because of piracy.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Around that time the media industry was campaigning that returns on media lead to piracy and it would save the bottom line for both the retailer and publisher, all media games,DVD,VHS,tape,CD stoped beign returnable after 20-30 is months.


A reasonable return policy of 14 days and 3-6 items total (2-3 games,2-3 dvds,2-3 cds ) I mean my god at least try and track returns with a simple account for returns...it will track returns made by consumers theres good data there to sale to statistic companies and all that I mean it should be the natural evultion of a consumer driven market.

 

Keys are no problem either jsut have the publisher sale keys and peopel can go to retialers and buy them with or without the used retial package, make it so it takes 6 months befor keys are abaile to protect new game sales than past that make a profit where you can..

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

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Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Again, how would you do that?

2-3 items per ever store that might carry items that could be pirated.  It takes an hour or two to copy a something.  I can see the public using their Social to purchase media just so returns can be tracked.

If one person bought 3 different dvds from every different retailer in a large city, copied them and then returned them.  In a week they would Netflix.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

you ever sign for a return on anything?

that data goes somewhere just the whole retail industry has not been forced in anyway to do something about it.

I'd like to go along the lines of innocence before guilt on returns even if you have a max of 3 items per store per month its enough to force the retail industry to reevaluate and streamline the process if enough of the industry dose this then they can share customer buying habits(via statics like they dio now) and return data, make the accounts something you need to sign for (as so they can do basic level of statistic gathering to help share the burden of the return system, the statistic company buys the data).

But its going to really need to start with indavendaul stores and shops and then evolve from there unless a middle man agency can come out of no where and assit in the foundation and operation of  such a database that all retail shops can have access to for a small fee, but in the end the indutry has to want it for it to evolve into something they can manage easily.

 

poke holes in mew logic but I think it can be done.

 

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Major retail stores do keep track of every return made and usually you need to have a receipt and if you don't then you're screwed except for places like Wal-Mart that will let you still make a return if you provide ID such as a license and you're only allow so many returns this way every six months or a year. They either have regional databases or the info is shared with their entire network. They could easily adopt this to game/software/movie returns. But the fact remains that publishers are the ones that refuse the returns. Though I'm sure if WalMart wanted they could bend them to their will.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Its like government they can easily do it,or at least do it with a reasonable amount of trouble the problem is here is no way to force the point to have them to do it, its almost like civil rights in the 20-40s its subtle something that may come to a head in time but being a bureaucracy for the bureaucracy they put off dealing with the issue until they HAD to.

 

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

 ... but you forgot to figure in the high cost of photo-copying a cover for the CD that these "entrepreneurs" have to shell out.

We go on and on denying that games cause people to commit violent crimes, but there is certainly strong anecdotal evidence here that gamers are willing to justify other crimes, like larceny, forgery, and distribution of stolen goods.  Jack are you reading here? You've just been focusing on the wrong crimes.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Man I don't pirate games and I think its stupid, but people like you that get all high and might about it really piss me off. Look, I have read barely anything in this thread defending piracy, just people saying that this idea might be smart to combat real piracy in poor countries where games are sold for ridiculous inflated prices.

Give me a fucking break man, by your logic any kind of music turns people into thieves and degenerates as well, because I can promise you that every genre of music has had songs dled from it, while your at it movies turn people into criminals as well because there are bootleg copies of those.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

Speaking of cost and oh god its so hard to make a game logic ... anyone every wonder why I pay 59.99 for a digital release and I pay 59.99 in a store for a hard copy release ... one would think cutting out the boxing, the shipping, etc that I could get a cost break instead of being hit with the same price tag for a copy that may not exist for download in 5 to 10 years.

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

IMO if digi distro is not half the price or less of retial packages its profiteering and bad and should be railed agisnt.

If they had more DRM but half the price of a normal game I'd buy in easily, I am willing to give up some thigns if the price is right.

 

I is fuzzy brained mew =^^=
http://zippydsmlee.wordpress.com/
(in need of a bad overhaul)

 


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Let's renegotiate them.

---

http://zippydsm.deviantart.com/

Re: The Escapist: Artist Suggests Game Biz Should Compete with

You're right. The cost should be lower, even though there are costs incurred in the marketing and delivery of digital product. Moving data may be cheaper, but it's not free (just ask your ISP who is probably looking for ways to throttle your band width and make you pay more for it). Any specific games you're referring to? Heck of a lot of games are available from download retailers like Direct to Drive almost simultaneously with the release of the product in retail stores.

 
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