Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

July 29, 2008 -

Hasbro, owners of the North American rights to Scrabble, have knocked the popular app - and Scrabble clone - Scrabulous right off of Facebook with a federal lawsuit alleging trademark and copyright infringement.

And while Facebook is not itself a defendant in the suit, the implications for the enormously popular social networking site are a concern. As ABC News reports:

The situation calls into question a host of potential legal landmines for Facebook, which allows programmers to develop and upload all sorts of applications to the social networking site.

 

"The big issue here is what this implies for Facebook," said Tom Hemnes, a Boston-based attorney who specializes in copyright and trademark law. "If I were betting on this, if the case came to litigation or settlement, [I would bet] that Facebook would lose. They are indirectly associated with the name Scrabble to attract viewers to their site, and that would be trademark infringement."

As Scrabulous disappeared, an official version of the game - developed by EA - launched on Facebook. Not all users were pleased. A "Save Scrabulous" FB group gathered tens of thousands of members and some complained about bugs in the EA version.

GP: However one feels about Scrabulous, a reading of Hasbro, Inc. vs. RJ Softwares does spell out a pretty clear-cut case of copyright infringement.


Comments

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

ALPER OTO KİRALAMA Otomobil Kiralama Sektöründe en iyi hizmeti en kaliteli şekilde en uygun koşullarda sunmak amacıyla kurulmuştur.  Oto kiralama sektöründe 11 yıldır hizmet veren firmamız deneyimli bir kadronun bileşeni olan bizler en iyi bildiğimizi en iyi şekilde verebilmek için çalışıyoruz.
 

rent a car | araç kiralama | araba kiralama

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Broken record time: The thing that gets me is how people say its a clear-cut case because Scrabulous was obviously the same game as Scrabble, so there was an intellectual property violation.

Those people are wrong.

The only thing Hasbro can win on is the trademark of Scrabble. The actual gameplay isn't protected by copyright, just the specific expression in the Scrabble rulebook.

This has been an issue as-of-late in the tabletop gaming community. Hasbro subsidary Wizards of the Coast issues a far more restricitive license for third-party 4th Ed. Dungeons & Dragons publishing than for 3rd Ed., and a few third-party publishers have said they won't be signing the license, but will be publishing rules-compatible material, sans any official branding, other than their own "This symbol means this book is compatible with the latest edition of the world's most popular fantasy role-playing game, which shall remain nameless."

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

So I guess this means I should stop hoping for a Facebook version of Monopoly, then?

---
The Mammon Industry

---
Fangamer

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Game rules and pieces are not copyrightable nor patentable.  A specific writing of the rules are, but the rules themself are not.  This is trademark and trademark alone.

However, as typical, the "official" version is vastly subpar to the unofficial.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

So....then....was Scrabulus a direct ripoff of the game rules? I never played it, I'm not sure quite how close of a clone it was

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Web browsers generally don't read manuscripts drafted in 1938 very well. I'd say the game uses Java or Flash, which is decidedly NOT the rules written in 1938.

 

If we had sane copyright laws, everything Scrabble would be in the public domain by now.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

But the one thing people fail to realize is that because Scrabulous is based in India, it's Mattel NOT Hasbro that has the copyright in that country.

Back when international rights were being sorted out for Scrabble,  Hasbro ended up getting the rights to publish the game in the US and Canada, and Mattel earn the rights to publish it in the rest of the world.

So why isn't Mattel bring up copyright violation charges against the owners of Scrablous?

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Who the hell plays Scrabble?

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

I do and so does the rest of my family.

---------------------------------------------------- Debates are like merry go rounds. Two people take their positions then they go through the same points over and over and over again. Then when it's over they have the same positions they started in.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

As to the suit, I'm torn. I feel bad for the little guy in this, then again, if Hasbro was indeed damaged by this...

 

As to the literla meaning of the article title, if Bling can be in the dictionary, so should be pwned

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

I heard Facebook is going to try a new original idea, the "Superb Malip Cousins". They kick hermit crab shells at owls.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

There's another thing I don't get. I see tons of apps that rip off of Starcraft, Mario, WoW, Legend of Zelda, any of those games. Why haven't there been huge outcries and lawsuits over that?

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

IANAL, but as I understand it the rules of a game are not copyrightable or trademarkable. The exact written description of the rules might be, however the 'system' of the rules is not.

What Hasbro is actually suing for is the infringement of trademark since Scrabulous sounds so similar to scrabble, and the copyright over the design of the board (which specifically means the pattern and colours).

If the scrabulous guys were to change the name to Wordulous, and change the colours of the board and the letter tiles, Hasbro probably wouldn't have a case.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Unless it's a photocopy of the board, I don't understand how you can be in volation of copyright for something that you didn't get by making a copy.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

It seems clear cut to me: The game is a pretty direct copy, they made money off this through ads, that cut into Hasbro's profits vis-a-vis Scrabble, Hasbro has every right to shut them down.

Could it have been handled better?  Probably.  Does that change this?  No.

I know it's in vogue to side with anyone "small" in a case like this, but being small doesn't make you right, or above the law.  They chose to rather directly rip off a very well-known brand.  They suffer the consequences.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

As an avid Scrabulous player, I was pretty torn when I saw the litigation.  In my non-legal expertise, Hasbro had a right to shut down Scrabulous, but the amount of ill will they garnered by shutting down such a popular app definitely didn't help their cause.  Many people who played Scrabulous admitted to buying the physical board game after rediscovering how much fun it was. 

Granted, if there's money to be had, people want in.  Hasbro probably should have approached Scrabulous on the side, let them know that there was legal justification to shut them down and then talked about particulars and maybe use the Scrabulous app with official licensing, which, from my understanding, was far superior to the EA one and if anything, had a large installed user base.

But fevered egos being what they are, I'm sure it was just easier to wave a big stick and leave the Scrabulous developers with nothing.

 

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Actually knowing EA they probably have an exclusive license to all video game versions of Scrabble.   Hasbro would have had to break such a contract with EA to license Scrabulous as an official version. 

Scrabuloua from what I can see was way to close, to actual Scrabble which is copy protected and patented.  A company must protect it's own copywrites and patents in court, as no government agency has the authority to enforce them.  Thus Hasbro has every right to pursue legal action.

If the company was making money off of advertising dollars then they are causing damages to Hasbro financially, as their licensed version of the game by EA would be paying royalties to Hasbro. 

Here is how it works.  EA gets a license to produce a video game version of Scrabble from Hasbro.  Hasbro receives a royalty fee from every dollar EA earns from the video game versions.   Scrabulous gets published on Facebook and becomes popular drawing in advertising dollars.  The EA web version suffers reducing it's cash flow, and in corallary reduces the amount of Royalties Hasbro receives from EA.   Scrabulous is close enough to Scrabble and popular enough to cause significant revenue loss to Hasbro.  EA is does not own the copywrite so they are unable to take any action other than to report to Hasbro.   Hasbro the owner of the copywrite would then request that the owners of Scrabulous take down their application and voluntarily pay past due royalties to Hasbro off of thier profits.   Naturally the makers of Scrabulous refuse and thus Hasbro now has a court case against them.

 

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

I detect a hint of the "use it or lose" in this lawsuit. You can't really have a copyright that is never defended.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

The difference between not selling & not making money is obviously not as small as some think. I saw this a while back & wondered how in the hell they hadn't been sued for it, seemed pretty obviously a ripoff.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

If it's true that they were making money off the app, then they should be ashamed of themselves.  However, if they were not making money off of it, I don't see what the dig deal is, other than to force Facebook into paying for a license to us "the official version"

 

Sortableturnip's Law: As an online discussion of video game violence grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Jack Thompson approaches 1

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

I was falling on the side of the Scrabbulous makers until I read that they were making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on advertising revenue from the application.  It's frustrating that such a good app is going to be defunct for some at least, but that's what happens when corporations are deprived of money.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Is it a clear cut case of copyright violation?  http://www.thelegality.com/archives/11

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

This was a trademark issue more than anything.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

It should be interesting to see if/how this might affect future clone games.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Hmmm... methinks the similarities were a little too close, both to the look of the board game, and to the release of their own game.

Hasbro have certainly turned a blind eye to Scrabble-esque clones in the past, I've seen a few knocking around over the years, but the whole format of Scrabble is copyrighted and they have a right to protect it.

I think this was possibly more of a case of bad timing by Facebook than vindictiveness by Hasbro, though, what with having been recently acquired by Hornby along with Airfix, iirc, this may be a new company policy, if it were down to Hasbro, I doubt they would take matters further now that they have what they want.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Also the popularity was probably a factor.  I am not a lawyer, but my understanding was that in order to win the suit they have to prove damage.  I'd guess that no other scrabble clone was a close enough copy and popular enough to bother with a lawsuit.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

I don't understand why it is such a big deal if it isn't being sold. It wasn't making a profit, was it? So, I don't understand how it was hurting Hasbro. If I played that on Facebook, but wanted to play with my friends face to face, I'd have to buy the Scrabble boardgame. SO, how did it hurt them?

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

It was hosted on Facebook which displays advertising along side the game that generates profit for them.  Like it or not, Hasbro does have a claim here as someone else is making money off something they own and not sharing it with the rightful owners.  The fact that Facebook profits from the popularity of the game could make a reasonable case to add them to the suit as well.  I don't necessarily agree with this as I don't think the people playing Scrabulous would go out and buy a copy of the actual game if it were made unavailable but this is Hasbro's right to defend.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

But Facebook had no way of knowing, they don't go out and look at all the thousands of applications to look for copyright infringement, and they would've taken it down if asked to.

People don't go suing Youtube for copyright infringement, they just make them take the video down. Problem solved, end of story.

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

Well, except for Viacom's $1B suit against Google.

But yeah, in this case it's different since Facebook didn't actively advertise "we've got Scrabulous!" at any point.  They played by the letter of the law, though perhaps not the spirit.

---
The Mammon Industry

---
Fangamer

Re: Is P-W-N-D a Word? ...Hasbro vs. Scrabulous Court Documents

 It dilutes the brand and there is a high probability that EA is somehow making money off of the new scrabble game.

 
Forgot your password?
Username :
Password :

Poll

Will the FCC preempt state laws that limit municipal broadband services?:

Shout box

You're not permitted to post shouts.
Zenemulator...it's not just a slap job that makes "some" work..they do it for each which is why they work so well. I would rather have the quality over just a slap job.07/30/2014 - 5:48pm
ZenMatthew there is a difference between "worked" and "accurate". You play the Nintendo VC titles they play as damn close to the original as possible. The PSP would just run them as best they could, issues and all. And Masked...EACH VC title has their own07/30/2014 - 5:48pm
MaskedPixelanteOnce again, the 3DS already HAS a GBA emulator, it just can't run at the same time as the 3DS OS.07/30/2014 - 4:54pm
Matthew Wilsonyou cant street pass in ds mode ether, and if moders can make a gba emulator that runs very well on the psp as I understand it. you are telling me that Nintendo devs are not as good as moders?07/30/2014 - 4:49pm
Zenperformance. Halo 1 and 2 worked great because they actually did custom work on each of them...just like Nintendo does now lol07/30/2014 - 4:08pm
Zenexisting hardware while the GBA has to be emulated completely. Same reason the 360 couldn't run most Original Xbox games correctly, or had issues because they just did "blanket approach" for their emulation which led to game killing bugs or horrible07/30/2014 - 4:07pm
ZenSora/Matthew: It's not just Miiverse, but the whole idea of streetpass and things like that would be affected if the OS is not running. And just because a 3DS game can be downloaded and run does not mean that GBA can as easily. Those 3DS games use the07/30/2014 - 4:06pm
E. Zachary KnightSleaker, How is that different from every other credit card company targeting high school and college students?07/30/2014 - 1:40pm
Sleaker@EZK - I think some people are concerned beacuse it's a predatory technique targetted toward younger people that don't understand on top of offering the worst interest rates of any retailer around.07/30/2014 - 11:33am
MaskedPixelantehttp://www.joystiq.com/2014/07/30/europe-gets-long-detained-shin-megami-tensei-4-at-cut-price/ "Sorry you had to wait a year for SMT4, would a price cut make it sting less?"07/30/2014 - 10:29am
NeenekoI would hope not. Though it is not unheard of for store specific cards to be pretty good.07/30/2014 - 8:17am
E. Zachary KnightDoes anyone, or at least any intelligent person, expect a retail branded credit card to be anything close to resembling a "good deal" on interest rates?07/30/2014 - 7:13am
SleakerGamestop articles popping up everywhere about their ludicrous new Credit card offerings at a whopping pre-approval for 26.9% APR07/29/2014 - 10:19pm
Matthew Wilsonhttp://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/07/podcasting-patent-troll-we-tried-to-drop-lawsuit-against-adam-carolla/ the podcasting patent troll scum is trying to turn tail and run.07/29/2014 - 9:50pm
MaskedPixelanteOf course it's improved. At launch, Origin was scanning your entire hard drive, but now it's just scanning your browsing history. If that's not an improvement, I dunno what is!07/29/2014 - 8:59pm
Papa Midnighthttp://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/experienced-points/12029-Has-EAs-Origin-Service-Improved-Any-Over-the-Last-Two-Years07/29/2014 - 8:25pm
Sora-ChanSo it's just a matter of having better emulation software. If it can be done with a 3DS game, with all the memory and what not it takes up, it can be done with a GBA title through emulation.07/29/2014 - 7:30pm
Sora-ChanOther VC titles for the NES and Gameboy had the same setup where you couldn't access the homescreen without quitting out of the game til a later update when those games were released for the public outside of the founder program.07/29/2014 - 7:28pm
Sora-Chanthe 3DS can, and does, run GBA games, as seen by the founder gifts, which included a number of GBA titles. As for running GBA games and still having access to the home screen, I beleive it's more of the game emulation software needs to be updated.07/29/2014 - 7:27pm
Matthew Wilsonthe 3ds already swaps os's with the original ds. plus I dont think people expect miverse interaction when playing a gba game.07/29/2014 - 6:06pm
 

Be Heard - Contact Your Politician